Both bands have been compared to death on numerous occasions, but this is not one of those comparison threads. Both were great bands of course and were the two main R&B artists that can/were still be labelled as a true bands (like Earth Wind and Fire) of some sort compared to the other popular male R&B groups of that 90's era, like Jodeci and Boyz II Men. Though Mint Condition was more of a "real self contained" band than TTT was in a sense, you wanted to get a bit more technical.

TTT did break up of course in 1996/7, and MC is still standing today. MC still tours and releases albums, so MC does have a sizeable fanbase/following and longevity in the game at the moment. And of course Raphael is successfully doing his solo thing, and still produces for a variety of artists.

Now loking back to their prmes... Mint Condition did have a couple of gold albums/singles here and there, couple hits here and there etc. But TTT was more popular, successful, had more hits, album sales, awards/nominations etc. If you look at the numbers TTT was not as "popular" per se than Jodeci was, but they were on the same level of success which was kinda big. In your opinion, why was MC not as big as TTT was? Why couldn't they get over that "hump"?

Stability. Everytime I turned around it seemed like Mint was on a new label.

In addition 2 that, they waited 2 long between releases of new projects.

Just my 2 cents.

[Edited 8/15/12 9:23am]

Graycap23 said:

Stability. Everytime I turened around Mint was on a new label.

In addistion 2 that, they waited 2 long between releases of new projects.

Just my 2 cents.

I dont think that was it at all. Becuase MC was releasing albums every 2-3 years. The same frequency as what TTT was doing. As a matter of fact, the studio albums released by MC in the 90's were released in '91, '93, '96 and '99. For TTT, it was '90, '93, '96 TTT also has thier first album released in '88. So that can't be it.

As far as the "label" goes, Mint Condition was on the same label for their first three albums (Perspective/AM). They only switched to Elektra (i think) when the Life's Aquarium, album came out in 1999. The game had changed a lot by then.

Personally, I think they were releasing the wrong lead singles on their albums (I could be wrong, but someone please share your opinion)... but then they started to release the right ones, but it was kinda too late as the R&B industry started to change.

mrjun18 said:

Graycap23 said:

Stability. Everytime I turened around Mint was on a new label.

In addistion 2 that, they waited 2 long between releases of new projects.

Just my 2 cents.

I dont think that was it at all. Becuase MC was releasing albums every 2-3 years. The same frequency as what TTT was doing. As a matter of fact, the studio albums released by MC in the 90's were released in '91, '93, '96 and '99. For TTT, it was '90, '93, '96 TTT also has thier first album released in '88. So that can't be it.

As far as the "label" goes, Mint Condition was on the same label for their first three albums (Perspective/AM). They only switched to Elektra (i think) when the Life's Aquarium, album came out in 1999. The game had changed a lot by then.

Personally, I think they were releasing the wrong lead singles on their albums (I could be wrong, but someone please share your opinion)... but then they started to release the right ones, but it was kinda too late as the R&B industry started to change.

Lol........that's it.

My memory is shot 2 all hell................

mrjun18 said:

Graycap23 said:

Stability. Everytime I turened around Mint was on a new label.

In addistion 2 that, they waited 2 long between releases of new projects.

Just my 2 cents.

I think they were releasing the wrong lead singles on their albums

Agreed.

mrjun18 said:

Graycap23 said:

Stability. Everytime I turened around Mint was on a new label.

In addistion 2 that, they waited 2 long between releases of new projects.

Just my 2 cents.

I dont think that was it at all. Becuase MC was releasing albums every 2-3 years. The same frequency as what TTT was doing. As a matter of fact, the studio albums released by MC in the 90's were released in '91, '93, '96 and '99. For TTT, it was '90, '93, '96 TTT also has thier first album released in '88. So that can't be it.

As far as the "label" goes, Mint Condition was on the same label for their first three albums (Perspective/AM). They only switched to Elektra (i think) when the Life's Aquarium, album came out in 1999. The game had changed a lot by then.

Personally, I think they were releasing the wrong lead singles on their albums (I could be wrong, but someone please share your opinion)... but then they started to release the right ones, but it was kinda too late as the R&B industry started to change.

I "thinK' I remember hear ing something about the labels having trouble marketing Mint Condition because they had so many styles of music. They did not fit the the "box" and made it difficult 2 market them.

Its a utter shame how Mint Condition is not held the same as lets say New Edition. The sound and music they brought to the table and are STILL bringing should be commended.. Its ridiculous how they havent received any sort of lifetime achievement award or recognition for just doing their thing for being in the business over 20 years now!!!!!

But then you got these overrated hacks who have only been in the business for 10-15 years and have done nothing but made trash and trashed R&B.

SAD...

I wasnt around when Mint was ruling the 90s, well I was but to young to remember ... they appear to make good choice singles in the 00s anyway...Their new single was just playing on the radio the other day.

They stay true to R&B which I will always respect...regardless if the music industry doesnt

mjscarousal said:

Its a utter shame how Mint Condition is not held the same as lets say New Edition. The sound and music they brought to the table and are STILL bringing should be commended.. Its ridiculous how they havent received any sort of lifetime achievement award or recognition for just doing their thing for being in the business over 20 years now!!!!!

But then you got these overrated hacks who have only been in the business for 10-15 years and have done nothing but made trash and trashed R&B.

SAD...

I wasnt around when Mint was ruling the 90s, well I was but to young to remember ... they appear to make good choice singles in the 00s anyway...Their new single was just playing on the radio the other day.

They stay true to R&B which I will always respect...regardless if the music industry doesnt

They have quality music for the most part, some moderate hits, 2 classic albums (IMO) and the longevity. But what they dont have is the multi platinum album, #1 hits etc. like thier competitors had. That's why they wont be recognized... which is a shame.

Yeah the new single is nice (video is cool too). Can't wait for the new album. Drops Sept 11.

mrjun18 said:

Graycap23 said:

Stability. Everytime I turened around Mint was on a new label.

In addistion 2 that, they waited 2 long between releases of new projects.

Just my 2 cents.

I dont think that was it at all. Becuase MC was releasing albums every 2-3 years. The same frequency as what TTT was doing. As a matter of fact, the studio albums released by MC in the 90's were released in '91, '93, '96 and '99. For TTT, it was '90, '93, '96 TTT also has thier first album released in '88. So that can't be it.

As far as the "label" goes, Mint Condition was on the same label for their first three albums (Perspective/AM). They only switched to Elektra (i think) when the Life's Aquarium, album came out in 1999. The game had changed a lot by then.

Personally, I think they were releasing the wrong lead singles on their albums (I could be wrong, but someone please share your opinion)... but then they started to release the right ones, but it was kinda too late as the R&B industry started to change.

Hmm, IMO, I think with TTT, their music appealed to more than the average R&B audience. I mean think about it, when they were releasing their albums, folks were on the New Jack Swing ride...and even though some lump TTT into the NJS era, I think their sound was way too different and innovative. Personally I don't think they were NJS at all. They were in a league by themselves. I also think TTT music helped R&B music evolve..especially around the mid-90's when the genre of Neo-Soul was becoming more popular. You know how some folks like to say that the whole Neo-Soul thing started with TTT.

As far as MC goes, I think that their music was solid R&B and maybe not as innovative as the direction that TTT went in. Though they give an excellent performance and Stokely is a better vocalist than Raphael, I think MC got caught in this R&B loop...or maybe got lost in it somewhere along the way. After the "Life's Aquarium" album, it was almost 5-6 years until their next release "Livin' the Luxury Brown"...by that time, R&B was not the same R&B world as it was in the 90's. As you suggested, releasing the wrong lead singles could have possibly contributed as well. When TTT released their singles, they were usually upbeat yet cool enough to blast in your car or in your house...but with MC, their singles seemed to be lukewarm until you heard the 2nd or 3rd single and THEN decided to buy the album (unless you were a die hard fan of course).

Great question by the way.

mrjun18 said:

mjscarousal said:

Its a utter shame how Mint Condition is not held the same as lets say New Edition. The sound and music they brought to the table and are STILL bringing should be commended.. Its ridiculous how they havent received any sort of lifetime achievement award or recognition for just doing their thing for being in the business over 20 years now!!!!!

But then you got these overrated hacks who have only been in the business for 10-15 years and have done nothing but made trash and trashed R&B.

SAD...

I wasnt around when Mint was ruling the 90s, well I was but to young to remember ... they appear to make good choice singles in the 00s anyway...Their new single was just playing on the radio the other day.

They stay true to R&B which I will always respect...regardless if the music industry doesnt

They have quality music for the most part, some moderate hits, 2 classic albums (IMO) and the longevity. But what they dont have is the multi platinum album, #1 hits etc. like thier competitors had. That's why they wont be recognized... which is a shame.

Yeah the new single is nice (video is cool too). Can't wait for the new album. Drops Sept 11.

Yea it is sad. I still think they should be recognized especially in the R&B band world. There are alot of artists and groups that dont have that and are still recognized.

Taste of the Mint ...Sept 11

O and very nice thread

Their labels fucked them over. J&T as best as they could, I don't think they really promoted them or anyone from A&M did because they were dealing with "other matters" regarding certain pop and R&B artists. But I think they were already rare since they were really the only "new band" besides TTT that was out at that particular time. So the success they did had was remarkable. I actually think the comparisons hampered them because while they were musically different from TTT, they loved to compare them just to compare them. That's how I look at it.

Timmy84 said:

Their labels fucked them over. J&T as best as they could, I don't think they really promoted them or anyone from A&M did because they were dealing with "other matters" regarding certain pop and R&B artists. But I think they were already rare since they were really the only "new band" besides TTT that was out at that particular time. So the success they did had was remarkable. I actually think the comparisons hampered them because while they were musically different from TTT, they loved to compare them just to compare them. That's how I look at it.

Thats a good point as well. They didnt have that same "push" or exposure as other r&b groups/bands did but they were still able to develop and keep a tight following with their quality music. That allowed them to the opportunity to keep making more albums, not to not get dropped by the label, to be the opening act on tour with big name artists like Toni Braxton, Janet (for a bit) etc.

I think what also kept them in the game and the reason they didnt fade away like a Shai, or a H-Town was because they are somewhat a "respected" artist.

Do y'all think if MC was... let's say on the same label as Tony Toni Tone (or another big name label at that time), and had the right marketing/exposure, would they have at least the same level of success as TTT did?

mrjun18 said:

Timmy84 said:

Their labels fucked them over. J&T as best as they could, I don't think they really promoted them or anyone from A&M did because they were dealing with "other matters" regarding certain pop and R&B artists. But I think they were already rare since they were really the only "new band" besides TTT that was out at that particular time. So the success they did had was remarkable. I actually think the comparisons hampered them because while they were musically different from TTT, they loved to compare them just to compare them. That's how I look at it.

Thats a good point as well. They didnt have that same "push" or exposure as other r&b groups/bands did but they were still able to develop and keep a tight following with their quality music. That allowed them to the opportunity to keep making more albums, not to not get dropped by the label, to be the opening act on tour with big name artists like Toni Braxton, Janet (for a bit) etc.

I think what also kept them in the game and the reason they didnt fade away like a Shai, or a H-Town was because they are somewhat a "respected" artist.

Do y'all think if MC was... let's say on the same label as Tony Toni Tone (or another big name label at that time), and had the right marketing/exposure, would they have at least the same level of success as TTT did?

Yeah if Wing Records did believe in promoting two bands at the same time unlike other labels.

mrjun18 said:

Timmy84 said:

Their labels fucked them over. J&T as best as they could, I don't think they really promoted them or anyone from A&M did because they were dealing with "other matters" regarding certain pop and R&B artists. But I think they were already rare since they were really the only "new band" besides TTT that was out at that particular time. So the success they did had was remarkable. I actually think the comparisons hampered them because while they were musically different from TTT, they loved to compare them just to compare them. That's how I look at it.

Thats a good point as well. They didnt have that same "push" or exposure as other r&b groups/bands did but they were still able to develop and keep a tight following with their quality music. That allowed them to the opportunity to keep making more albums, not to not get dropped by the label, to be the opening act on tour with big name artists like Toni Braxton, Janet (for a bit) etc.

I think what also kept them in the game and the reason they didnt fade away like a Shai, or a H-Town was because they are somewhat a "respected" artist.

Do y'all think if MC was... let's say on the same label as Tony Toni Tone (or another big name label at that time), and had the right marketing/exposure, would they have at least the same level of success as TTT did?

Even if they were on the same label as TTT, I don't think they would have had the same level of success as TTT because then it would had been a tug of war of marketing between the two. I think it goes back to the right promotion and deciding the best lead singles to release. Maybe their record company didn't know how to market MC properly.

missfee said:

mrjun18 said:

I dont think that was it at all. Becuase MC was releasing albums every 2-3 years. The same frequency as what TTT was doing. As a matter of fact, the studio albums released by MC in the 90's were released in '91, '93, '96 and '99. For TTT, it was '90, '93, '96 TTT also has thier first album released in '88. So that can't be it.

As far as the "label" goes, Mint Condition was on the same label for their first three albums (Perspective/AM). They only switched to Elektra (i think) when the Life's Aquarium, album came out in 1999. The game had changed a lot by then.

Personally, I think they were releasing the wrong lead singles on their albums (I could be wrong, but someone please share your opinion)... but then they started to release the right ones, but it was kinda too late as the R&B industry started to change.

Hmm, IMO, I think with TTT, their music appealed to more than the average R&B audience. I mean think about it, when they were releasing their albums, folks were on the New Jack Swing ride...and even though some lump TTT into the NJS era, I think their sound was way too different and innovative. Personally I don't think they were NJS at all. They were in a league by themselves. I also think TTT music helped R&B music evolve..especially around the mid-90's when the genre of Neo-Soul was becoming more popular. You know how some folks like to say that the whole Neo-Soul thing started with TTT.

As far as MC goes, I think that their music was solid R&B and maybe not as innovative as the direction that TTT went in. Though they give an excellent performance and Stokely is a better vocalist than Raphael, I think MC got caught in this R&B loop...or maybe got lost in it somewhere along the way. After the "Life's Aquarium" album, it was almost 5-6 years until their next release "Livin' the Luxury Brown"...by that time, R&B was not the same R&B world as it was in the 90's. As you suggested, releasing the wrong lead singles could have possibly contributed as well. When TTT released their singles, they were usually upbeat yet cool enough to blast in your car or in your house...but with MC, their singles seemed to be lukewarm until you heard the 2nd or 3rd single and THEN decided to buy the album (unless you were a die hard fan of course).

Great question by the way.

Great reponse. I agree with this.

The neo-soul era (mid 90s) was when they kinda got it going a bit (released the right first single with "WKOMWIB", a more mature sound compared, to the previous stuff they released. And when this time came around they stopped released the uptempo material as first singles (are you free, nobody does it betta etc) and released their bread and butter which was their ballads. I think that thats what helped them with the success of DOAB album and the singles.

Did you think the fact that had so many members have to do with anything at all regarding their success?

mrjun18 said:

missfee said:

Hmm, IMO, I think with TTT, their music appealed to more than the average R&B audience. I mean think about it, when they were releasing their albums, folks were on the New Jack Swing ride...and even though some lump TTT into the NJS era, I think their sound was way too different and innovative. Personally I don't think they were NJS at all. They were in a league by themselves. I also think TTT music helped R&B music evolve..especially around the mid-90's when the genre of Neo-Soul was becoming more popular. You know how some folks like to say that the whole Neo-Soul thing started with TTT.

As far as MC goes, I think that their music was solid R&B and maybe not as innovative as the direction that TTT went in. Though they give an excellent performance and Stokely is a better vocalist than Raphael, I think MC got caught in this R&B loop...or maybe got lost in it somewhere along the way. After the "Life's Aquarium" album, it was almost 5-6 years until their next release "Livin' the Luxury Brown"...by that time, R&B was not the same R&B world as it was in the 90's. As you suggested, releasing the wrong lead singles could have possibly contributed as well. When TTT released their singles, they were usually upbeat yet cool enough to blast in your car or in your house...but with MC, their singles seemed to be lukewarm until you heard the 2nd or 3rd single and THEN decided to buy the album (unless you were a die hard fan of course).

Great question by the way.

Great reponse. I agree with this.

The neo-soul era (mid 90s) was when they kinda got it going a bit (released the right first single with "WKOMWIB", a more mature sound compared, to the previous stuff they released. And when this time came around they stopped released the uptempo material as first singles (are you free, nobody does it betta etc) and released their bread and butter which was their ballads. I think that thats what helped them with the success of DOAB album and the singles.

Did you think the fact that had so many members have to do with anything at all regarding their success?

Nope. I don't think that makes a difference. They didn't have half as many as EWF and they are still playing till this very day (though with less members, but still touring nonetheless).

[Edited 8/15/12 10:06am]

i think the Feels Good single for TTT gave them some crossover appeal that may have boosted the sales of the HOM cd and more "mainstream" visibility. TTT were definitely innovative but also had the traditional ballads that got mad mileage also, and as has been said, MC were probably more traditional. but u know sometimes the industry is just fickle and stuff happens that can't be explained with a pat answer.

mrjun18 said:

Now loking back to their prmes... Mint Condition did have a couple of gold albums/singles here and there, couple hits here and there etc. But TTT was more popular, successful, had more hits, album sales, awards/nominations etc. If you look at the numbers TTT was not as "popular" per se than Jodeci was, but they were on the same level of success which was kinda big. In your opinion, why was MC not as big as TTT was? Why couldn't they get over that "hump"?

In the long run..............MC is having the better career of the 2.

Things happen the way they happen.

Graycap23 said:

mrjun18 said:

Now loking back to their prmes... Mint Condition did have a couple of gold albums/singles here and there, couple hits here and there etc. But TTT was more popular, successful, had more hits, album sales, awards/nominations etc. If you look at the numbers TTT was not as "popular" per se than Jodeci was, but they were on the same level of success which was kinda big. In your opinion, why was MC not as big as TTT was? Why couldn't they get over that "hump"?

In the long run..............MC is having the better career of the 2.

Things happen the way they happen.

True.

More Mint! More Mint!

missfee said:

mrjun18 said:

Great reponse. I agree with this.

The neo-soul era (mid 90s) was when they kinda got it going a bit (released the right first single with "WKOMWIB", a more mature sound compared, to the previous stuff they released. And when this time came around they stopped released the uptempo material as first singles (are you free, nobody does it betta etc) and released their bread and butter which was their ballads. I think that thats what helped them with the success of DOAB album and the singles.

Did you think the fact that had so many members have to do with anything at all regarding their success?

Nope. I don't think that makes a difference. They didn't have half as many as EWF and they are still playing till this very day (though with less members, but still touring nonetheless).

[Edited 8/15/12 10:06am]

LOL. True.

datdude said:

i think the Feels Good single for TTT gave them some crossover appeal that may have boosted the sales of the HOM cd and more "mainstream" visibility. TTT were definitely innovative but also had the traditional ballads that got mad mileage also, and as has been said, MC were probably more traditional. but u know sometimes the industry is just fickle and stuff happens that can't be explained with a pat answer.

Right but "Breaking My Heart" did the same for Mint Conditio though and was a huge hit.

Or maybe could it be the fact that TTT was more "versatile" (able to release both success uptempo and ballad hits, unlike MC) and MC was kidna looked at as a "ballad band"?

mrjun18 said:

datdude said:

i think the Feels Good single for TTT gave them some crossover appeal that may have boosted the sales of the HOM cd and more "mainstream" visibility. TTT were definitely innovative but also had the traditional ballads that got mad mileage also, and as has been said, MC were probably more traditional. but u know sometimes the industry is just fickle and stuff happens that can't be explained with a pat answer.

Right but "Breaking My Heart" did the same for Mint Conditio though and was a huge hit.

Or maybe could it be the fact that TTT was more "versatile" (able to release both success uptempo and ballad hits, unlike MC) and MC was kidna looked at as a "ballad band"?

But TTT was not more versatile. Who ever choose the singles 4 MC miss calculated and the next thing u know, almost all of their singles were slow songs.

I exactly think Mint Condition is more versatile maybe their lead singles were to slow though.

[Edited 8/15/12 10:56am]

mjscarousal said:

I exactly think Mint Condition is more versatile maybe their lead singles were to slow though.

[Edited 8/15/12 10:56am]

Oh I do think MC is much more versatile as well. The amount of genres of music they can play, thier subject matter, thier discography etc just shows that. (What I meant to say in my post was that commercially TTT was more versatile in terms of thier singles they released compared to MC). Sorry about that.

mrjun18 said:

mjscarousal said:

I exactly think Mint Condition is more versatile maybe their lead singles were to slow though.

[Edited 8/15/12 10:56am]

Oh I do think MC is much more versatile as well. The amount of genres of music they can play, thier subject matter, thier discography etc just shows that. (What I meant to say in my post was that commercially TTT was more versatile in terms of thier singles they released compared to MC). Sorry about that.

You good ... and I agree.

There more popular 90 cuts are slower I noticed.

Both of these groups are underrated imo. I look at groups like Boyz II Men who were huge in the 90s and wonder why they aren't as recognized. I JUST discovered MC about 3 years ago when my brother told me about them, and I was like how did I never miss these guys!

Commerical success is a big part of it, like someone mentioned earlier.

mrjun18 said:

datdude said:

i think the Feels Good single for TTT gave them some crossover appeal that may have boosted the sales of the HOM cd and more "mainstream" visibility.

Right but "Breaking My Heart" did the same for Mint Conditio though and was a huge hit.

Breaking My Heart was a top 10 crossover POP hit? If so, didn't know that.

datdude said: