dag said:

[img:$uid]http://i50.tinypic.com/nq2w7.jpg[/img:$uid]

They look so cute here....

Freddie Mercury talking about Michael Jackson

http://www.dailymotion.co...kson_music

I figured out what it is!!! Sometimes when people are in love, they subconsciously start looking alike a little, like kindred spirits or soulmates/twin souls

alphastreet said:

I figured out what it is!!! Sometimes when people are in love, they subconsciously start looking alike a little, like kindred spirits or soulmates/twin souls

Awww, that explains the resemblance <3

mjscarousal said:

dag said:

[img:$uid]http://i50.tinypic.com/nq2w7.jpg[/img:$uid]

They look so cute here....

The look in his eyes and knowing smile makes me think he just got done talking shit about her with the person who took the picture.

Emancipation89 said:

alphastreet said:

I figured out what it is!!! Sometimes when people are in love, they subconsciously start looking alike a little, like kindred spirits or soulmates/twin souls

Awww, that explains the resemblance <3

LMAO!

mjscarousal said:

whatsgoingon said:

I think Bad was the beginning of the end. I remember looking at the album cover and thinking where has Michael Jackson gone. Having lived through the Jackson era, OTW and the Thriller era, which was truely his peak the Bad era just came across as tacky and full of hype.

Michael exactly became more of a global singer with BAD because of the tour so dont know how it was tacky and full of hype. He grew alot as an artist and wrote every song on the album except three and had innovative music videos... Im not sure if your talking about his appearance or him as an artist?

BS. People world-wide knew who MJ was well before Thriller, let alone Bad. I never grew up in America but I was rocking to the Jacksons in West Africa as a child. I then moved to Europe still as a child and OTW was the bomb and I was in between Europe and the States when Thriller came out and I saw Thriller consolidate MJ legendary status on both sides of the Atlantic as well as the rest of the world. And that what took him to another level not the Bad era. Without the success of Thriller the hype surrounding the release of Bad would never have happened.

The main difference between Before Bad and after Bad is that MJ became a solo artist exclusively and therefore he tour internationally as a solo artist to more people. However, he also completely morphed into a different person that he became unrecognisable and the name Wacko Jacko was coined.

And btw I am talking as someone who actually saw the Bad tour in London in 1988, however I also witness the Triumph Tour in NY and I know which one I prefer.

whatsgoingon said:

mjscarousal said:

Michael exactly became more of a global singer with BAD because of the tour so dont know how it was tacky and full of hype. He grew alot as an artist and wrote every song on the album except three and had innovative music videos... Im not sure if your talking about his appearance or him as an artist?

BS. People world-wide knew who MJ was well before Thriller, let alone Bad. I never grew up in America but I was rocking to the Jacksons in West Africa as a child. I then moved to Europe still as a child and OTW was the bomb and I was in between Europe and the States when Thriller came out and I saw Thriller consolidate MJ legendary status on both sides of the Atlantic as well as the rest of the world. And that what took him to another level not the Bad era. Without the success of Thriller the hype surrounding the release of Bad would never have happened.

The main difference between Before Bad and after Bad is that MJ became a solo artist exclusively and therefore he tour internationally as a solo artist to more people. However, he also completely morphed into a different person that he became unrecognisable and the name Wacko Jacko was coined.

And btw I am talking as someone who actually saw the Bad tour in London in 1988, however I also witness the Triumph Tour in NY and I know which one I prefer.

Trust me I know Michael was big even before BAD I was just shooting down that notion that other poster was claiming. Michael even became more of a global star after Thriller. Notice I said GLOBAL and not international.

mjscarousal said:

whatsgoingon said:

BS. People world-wide knew who MJ was well before Thriller, let alone Bad. I never grew up in America but I was rocking to the Jacksons in West Africa as a child. I then moved to Europe still as a child and OTW was the bomb and I was in between Europe and the States when Thriller came out and I saw Thriller consolidate MJ legendary status on both sides of the Atlantic as well as the rest of the world. And that what took him to another level not the Bad era. Without the success of Thriller the hype surrounding the release of Bad would never have happened.

The main difference between Before Bad and after Bad is that MJ became a solo artist exclusively and therefore he tour internationally as a solo artist to more people. However, he also completely morphed into a different person that he became unrecognisable and the name Wacko Jacko was coined.

And btw I am talking as someone who actually saw the Bad tour in London in 1988, however I also witness the Triumph Tour in NY and I know which one I prefer.

Trust me I know Michael was big even before BAD I was just shooting down that notion that other poster was claiming. Michael even became more of a global star after Thriller. Notice I said GLOBAL and not international.

I've also heard of some European countries not giving him the time of day till Thriller, like in Poland, and in the 70's and earlier 80's, in places like East Africa and the Middle East, though he may have been known, the Osmonds and Queen and even the Beatles music was more popular at first.

As for which tour you prefer, that has more to do with your musical and style preference than michael jackson. So you're not into the glam rock look and pop/rock tinged music he put out, it's not your cup of tea, why not just agree to disagree?

[Edited 9/8/12 13:33pm]

alphastreet said:

mjscarousal said:

Trust me I know Michael was big even before BAD I was just shooting down that notion that other poster was claiming. Michael even became more of a global star after Thriller. Notice I said GLOBAL and not international.

I've also heard of some European countries not giving him the time of day till Thriller, like in Poland, and in the 70's and earlier 80's, in places like East Africa and the Middle East, though he may have been known, the Osmonds and Queen and even the Beatles music was more popular at first.

As for which tour you prefer, that has more to do with your musical and style preference than michael jackson. So you're not into the glam rock look and pop/rock tinged music he put out, it's not your cup of tea, why not just agree to disagree?

[Edited 9/8/12 13:33pm]

Even though people in Europe, Latin america and Asia, Africa knew who the Jackons and MJ was during the thriller era, it was nowhere NEAR Bad. It was Michaelmania in many countries after Bad and during the Dangerous/HIstory eras because in many former soviet countries (dictorships around the world) it wasnt allowed/expensive to listen to western/american music. Queen was mostly known in Europe, Latin America and South Africa & the USA , not so much in the african or asian continent. The osmonds, not really that famous unless people lived in american friendly countries. The Beatles all the countries that has ever been invaded by british rule or speak english. MJ was the most famous in the world during the Bad, Dangerous, HIStory tour because he went to all 5 continents in a larger way - but that's also the decline for his american fanbase. I personally love all MJs eras because he shows growth and innovation, like very few artists have.

GoldDolphin said:

alphastreet said:

I've also heard of some European countries not giving him the time of day till Thriller, like in Poland, and in the 70's and earlier 80's, in places like East Africa and the Middle East, though he may have been known, the Osmonds and Queen and even the Beatles music was more popular at first.

As for which tour you prefer, that has more to do with your musical and style preference than michael jackson. So you're not into the glam rock look and pop/rock tinged music he put out, it's not your cup of tea, why not just agree to disagree?

[Edited 9/8/12 13:33pm]

Even though people in Europe, Latin america and Asia, Africa knew who the Jackons and MJ was during the thriller era, it was nowhere NEAR Bad. It was Michaelmania in many countries after Bad and during the Dangerous/HIstory eras because in many former soviet countries (dictorships around the world) it wasnt allowed/expensive to listen to western/american music. Queen was mostly known in Europe, Latin America and South Africa & the USA , not so much in the african or asian continent. The osmonds, not really that famous unless people lived in american friendly countries. The Beatles all the countries that has ever been invaded by british rule or speak english. MJ was the most famous in the world during the Bad, Dangerous, HIStory tour because he went to all 5 continents in a larger way - but that's also the decline for his american fanbase. I personally love all MJs eras because he shows growth and innovation, like very few artists have.

Agree

GoldDolphin said:

alphastreet said:

I've also heard of some European countries not giving him the time of day till Thriller, like in Poland, and in the 70's and earlier 80's, in places like East Africa and the Middle East, though he may have been known, the Osmonds and Queen and even the Beatles music was more popular at first.

As for which tour you prefer, that has more to do with your musical and style preference than michael jackson. So you're not into the glam rock look and pop/rock tinged music he put out, it's not your cup of tea, why not just agree to disagree?

[Edited 9/8/12 13:33pm]

Even though people in Europe, Latin america and Asia, Africa knew who the Jackons and MJ was during the thriller era, it was nowhere NEAR Bad. It was Michaelmania in many countries after Bad and during the Dangerous/HIstory eras because in many former soviet countries (dictorships around the world) it wasnt allowed/expensive to listen to western/american music. Queen was mostly known in Europe, Latin America and South Africa & the USA , not so much in the african or asian continent. The osmonds, not really that famous unless people lived in american friendly countries. The Beatles all the countries that has ever been invaded by british rule or speak english. MJ was the most famous in the world during the Bad, Dangerous, HIStory tour because he went to all 5 continents in a larger way - but that's also the decline for his american fanbase. I personally love all MJs eras because he shows growth and innovation, like very few artists have.

nothing....NOTHING was more profound than the REAL MICHAELMANIA that sprung forth during the age of THRILLER, which was given its platform to accomplish what it did after Michael Jackson released his greatest work right out the box with OFF THE WALL, an album that Michael has stated to be the best album he ever made as well as his favorite album to have worked on

what the world saw when Michael performed on MOTOWN 25 as commercial media deemed "shocking" was already presented in the midst of his initial fan following during the years of OFF THE WALL......that's why the audience at the civic auditorium on that night knew that he was going to before Billie Jean before he started doing it.....because of the connection

what the world saw during THRILLER was already seen live during those live shows from 1979-1981, especially during the Triumph Tour, the best tour he ever done, which has been confirmed by Tito Jackson when he appeared for the opening of that movie for THIS IS IT

what make it so bad, as amazing as MOTOWN 25 was, and it was a performance of all time, he scaled down the style of his dancing even then....he danced way funkier during OFF THE WALL

I was 10 years old, when my father got me and my younger brother tickets to see the Triumph Tour in person.....

and during that concert, Michael's dancing was so magnificent, it was frightening, god frightening, but in a beautiful way....uttering dance moves so tight, it was so real, the audience wouldn't even try and imitate it..he was conceiving the dance (really conceiving the dance) on the fly.....

THRILLER was the culmination, the fulfillment of black american struggle in the united states rising to the forefront thru the realm of music, where Michael and Quincy Jones created a body of music that flowed from 40 years of music shaped by culture that was denied the recognition it deserved from so many decades before

those who have the platform today claim that album's success stood as fluke, but they don't understand the context in which that album was crafted, and the circumstance it was born out of, because of culture carrying such a strong impact, that which Michael Jackson's talent was shaped by, that foundation is what gave Michael to believe he could create the greatest selling album of all time when he made THRILLER......the foundation is what made the global embrace possible, for if it wasn't for the foundation, BAD, DANGEROUS, HISTORY would not have been realized

THRILLER was so huge, it had ALREADY become the greatest selling album ever before he even unleashed the Thriller video, by that point, the album was selling over one million copies a week and remained at the top of the album charts for 37 straight weeks (almost 10 months straight)

THRILLER was so huge, the day after the MOTOWN 25 performance and the premier of the Thriller video, when we went to school the next day...we didn't even have classes

the reason why?....because the teachers and the school principal were talking about those moments just as much as the students......those moments resembled national holidays

Mike combined showmanship, music, and entertainment and blew the cap off the lid with that album

what was amazing about the entire experience....when THRILLER was released, it was done so inconspicously, with marginal promotion, no videos (because Billie Jean) wasn't released until 3 months later.....the album just continued to build momentum w/each song, and when it reached its apex, its zenith, it ran like a locomotive

where BAD sold 25 million copies worldwide during its initial run, THRILLER sold 25 million copies in the united states alone

and because of the fact BAD did not meet Michael's expectations, he fired his manager Frank Dileo and severed his relationship w/Quincy Jones......when in fact, they weren't the problem

THRILLER sold 47 million during its initial run, so if he sold 25 million copies of that album in america, the other 22 million was sold beyond this country

BAD sold 25 million copies its initial run, and by selling 6-8 million copies here in america, that means the other 17-19 million were sold beyond the country.....

so if that's the case, then THRILLER sold more internationally than BAD did, but the initial legs of his BAD tour he performed in Japan, Australia, and Europe gave the impression that wasn't the case when it was the case all along....

it's no accident that no other artist has produced an album that has outsold THRILLER in 30 years time, it's because we continue to disregard the foundation his original fan following play in making his global success possible and the how the contribution of culture (that which was not acknowleged by the establishment) played a vital role as well

and because of this lack of acknowledgement, that's what gives the commercial media and audience that MICHAEL started wearing the glittered glove during MOTOWN 25 when he was sporting the glove some 4 years beforehand.....

The perception was skewed...because what really happened is that Michael had to transition to becoming an international artist in order to extend his career, because he lost his american fanbase, in particular, his initial fan following from 1969-1984

he evolved into international presence, not by choice, but by the need to do it

[Edited 9/8/12 20:06pm]

whatsgoingon said:

mjscarousal said:

Michael exactly became more of a global singer with BAD because of the tour so dont know how it was tacky and full of hype. He grew alot as an artist and wrote every song on the album except three and had innovative music videos... Im not sure if your talking about his appearance or him as an artist?

BS. People world-wide knew who MJ was well before Thriller, let alone Bad. I never grew up in America but I was rocking to the Jacksons in West Africa as a child. I then moved to Europe still as a child and OTW was the bomb and I was in between Europe and the States when Thriller came out and I saw Thriller consolidate MJ legendary status on both sides of the Atlantic as well as the rest of the world. And that what took him to another level not the Bad era. Without the success of Thriller the hype surrounding the release of Bad would never have happened.

The main difference between Before Bad and after Bad is that MJ became a solo artist exclusively and therefore he tour internationally as a solo artist to more people. However, he also completely morphed into a different person that he became unrecognisable and the name Wacko Jacko was coined.

And btw I am talking as someone who actually saw the Bad tour in London in 1988, however I also witness the Triumph Tour in NY and I know which one I prefer.

wow, you saw the Triumph Tour also?

please share with the forum how funky Michael Jackson was dancing for those shows....

I don't want anyone to think I'm making this stuff up?

Can't wait to hear your input.......

Scorp said:

whatsgoingon said:

Scorp said:

nothing....NOTHING was more profound than the REAL MICHAELMANIA that sprung forth during the age of THRILLER, which was given its platform to accomplish what it did after Michael Jackson released his greatest work right out the box with OFF THE WALL, an album that Michael has stated to be the best album he ever made as well as his favorite album to have worked on

what the world saw when Michael performed on MOTOWN 25 as commercial media deemed "shocking" was already presented in the midst of his initial fan following during the years of OFF THE WALL......that's why the audience at the civic auditorium on that night knew that he was going to before Billie Jean before he started doing it.....because of the connection

what the world saw during THRILLER was already seen live during those live shows from 1979-1981, especially during the Triumph Tour, the best tour he ever done, which has been confirmed by Tito Jackson when he appeared for the opening of that movie for THIS IS IT

what make it so bad, as amazing as MOTOWN 25 was, and it was a performance of all time, he scaled down the style of his dancing even then....he danced way funkier during OFF THE WALL

I was 10 years old, when my father got me and my younger brother tickets to see the Triumph Tour in person.....

and during that concert, Michael's dancing was so magnificent, it was frightening, god frightening, but in a beautiful way....uttering dance moves so tight, it was so real, the audience wouldn't even try and imitate it..he was conceiving the dance (really conceiving the dance) on the fly.....

THRILLER was the culmination, the fulfillment of black american struggle in the united states rising to the forefront thru the realm of music, where Michael and Quincy Jones created a body of music that flowed from 40 years of music shaped by culture that was denied the recognition it deserved from so many decades before

those who have the platform today claim that album's success stood as fluke, but they don't understand the context in which that album was crafted, and the circumstance it was born out of, because of culture carrying such a strong impact, that which Michael Jackson's talent was shaped by, that foundation is what gave Michael to believe he could create the greatest selling album of all time when he made THRILLER......the foundation is what made the global embrace possible, for if it wasn't for the foundation, BAD, DANGEROUS, HISTORY would not have been realized

THRILLER was so huge, it had ALREADY become the greatest selling album ever before he even unleashed the Thriller video, by that point, the album was selling over one million copies a week and remained at the top of the album charts for 37 straight weeks (almost 10 months straight)

THRILLER was so huge, the day after the MOTOWN 25 performance and the premier of the Thriller video, when we went to school the next day...we didn't even have classes

the reason why?....because the teachers and the school principal were talking about those moments just as much as the students......those moments resembled national holidays

Mike combined showmanship, music, and entertainment and blew the cap off the lid with that album

what was amazing about the entire experience....when THRILLER was released, it was done so inconspicously, with marginal promotion, no videos (because Billie Jean) wasn't released until 3 months later.....the album just continued to build momentum w/each song, and when it reached its apex, its zenith, it ran like a locomotive

where BAD sold 25 million copies worldwide during its initial run, THRILLER sold 25 million copies in the united states alone

and because of the fact BAD did not meet Michael's expectations, he fired his manager Frank Dileo and severed his relationship w/Quincy Jones......when in fact, they weren't the problem

THRILLER sold 47 million during its initial run, so if he sold 25 million copies of that album in america, the other 22 million was sold beyond this country

BAD sold 25 million copies its initial run, and by selling 6-8 million copies here in america, that means the other 17-19 million were sold beyond the country.....

so if that's the case, then THRILLER sold more internationally than BAD did, but the initial legs of his BAD tour he performed in Japan, Australia, and Europe gave the impression that wasn't the case when it was the case all along....

it's no accident that no other artist has produced an album that has outsold THRILLER in 30 years time, it's because we continue to disregard the foundation his original fan following play in making his global success possible and the how the contribution of culture (that which was not acknowleged by the establishment) played a vital role as well

and because of this lack of acknowledgement, that's what gives the commercial media and audience that MICHAEL started wearing the glittered glove during MOTOWN 25 when he was sporting the glove some 4 years beforehand.....

[Edited 9/8/12 19:42pm]

[Edited 9/8/12 19:44pm]

True. I definetly witness michaelmania during the thriller era in Europe. I remember very clearly people walking around with the BEAT IT t-shirts. Thriller was definetly a world-wide mania. If the mania was just restricted to america, I doubt thriller would have been as successful as it was. What i remember about BAD being release was the hype surrounding it. That kind of hype did not happen when thriller was first released. Thriller was quite slow getting off the blocks. The so-call mania and hype surrounding BAD was due to the success of Thriller. But one think was clear on both sides of the Alantic is that by the time BAD came out, people that remember MJ prior to the BAD era were asking themselves WTF HAD HE DONE TO HIMSELF. It was also the era when the phrase WACKO JACKO began in earnest. Now I can understand if you were not old enough to remember MJ prior to BAD thinking that was his hey day or if you came from one of those eastern block countries where western music was rarely heard until the late 80s thinking he was bigger than big during the BAD era, but everyone else knew by the time BAD came around MJ had certain issues ehich unfortunately with time became worse.

awesome points...awesome....that's the key what you mentioned right here

it's about the point of reference that determines what you believe about Michael Jackson, particular after reaching his pinnacle, which makes it very difficult to understand what really happened to his guy since his career had existed for over 4 decades

it's not that people were attacking this guy, we loved michael jackson and he's still loved unconditionally that existed w/in the world of criticism, scrutiny, and ridicule he received AFTER he reached the pinnacle.....

and this period of Michael's career during the BAD era has cultivated a tremendous divide that exists between his current following of the past 20 years and those who represented his original following from 1969-1984

what the fans don't know, is that the term WACKO JACKO wasn't started by the american press, not even the british press (even though they are associated with coining that term)...it was the AUSTRALIAN press that first called him that, as Michael had just started the initial leg of his BAD TOUR where has set to perform in Australia after opening that tour in Japan....

so all this talk about America seeking to crucify him, the term all started in the great outback, because the people there were confused about what he was doing to himself

the real problem is the fact, the world, commercial media, and his current following have never seen the real Michael Jackson in the 25 years he took on the full scale pop concept....he definitely did, for that's why he sought to be recognized as "the king of pop"....which never truly defined the extent of his talent

as you mentioned, kids, even grown folks were strutting up and down the sidewalk rockin that Beat-It jacket, and the loafers, and the highwater pants, finding any glove they could get their hands on, and their version of the Thriller curl

please share w/us your thoughts on the Triumph Tour and what you thought about it

Scorp said:

GoldDolphin said:

Even though people in Europe, Latin america and Asia, Africa knew who the Jackons and MJ was during the thriller era, it was nowhere NEAR Bad. It was Michaelmania in many countries after Bad and during the Dangerous/HIstory eras because in many former soviet countries (dictorships around the world) it wasnt allowed/expensive to listen to western/american music. Queen was mostly known in Europe, Latin America and South Africa & the USA , not so much in the african or asian continent. The osmonds, not really that famous unless people lived in american friendly countries. The Beatles all the countries that has ever been invaded by british rule or speak english. MJ was the most famous in the world during the Bad, Dangerous, HIStory tour because he went to all 5 continents in a larger way - but that's also the decline for his american fanbase. I personally love all MJs eras because he shows growth and innovation, like very few artists have.

nothing....NOTHING was more profound than the REAL MICHAELMANIA that sprung forth during the age of THRILLER, which was given its platform to accomplish what it did after Michael Jackson released his greatest work right out the box with OFF THE WALL, an album that Michael has stated to be the best album he ever made as well as his favorite album to have worked on

what the world saw when Michael performed on MOTOWN 25 as commercial media deemed "shocking" was already presented in the midst of his initial fan following during the years of OFF THE WALL......that's why the audience at the civic auditorium on that night knew that he was going to before Billie Jean before he started doing it.....because of the connection

what the world saw during THRILLER was already seen live during those live shows from 1979-1981, especially during the Triumph Tour, the best tour he ever done, which has been confirmed by Tito Jackson when he appeared for the opening of that movie for THIS IS IT

what make it so bad, as amazing as MOTOWN 25 was, and it was a performance of all time, he scaled down the style of his dancing even then....he danced way funkier during OFF THE WALL

I was 10 years old, when my father got me and my younger brother tickets to see the Triumph Tour in person.....

and during that concert, Michael's dancing was so magnificent, it was frightening, god frightening, but in a beautiful way....uttering dance moves so tight, it was so real, the audience wouldn't even try and imitate it..he was conceiving the dance (really conceiving the dance) on the fly.....

THRILLER was the culmination, the fulfillment of black american struggle in the united states rising to the forefront thru the realm of music, where Michael and Quincy Jones created a body of music that flowed from 40 years of music shaped by culture that was denied the recognition it deserved from so many decades before

those who have the platform today claim that album's success stood as fluke, but they don't understand the context in which that album was crafted, and the circumstance it was born out of, because of culture carrying such a strong impact, that which Michael Jackson's talent was shaped by, that foundation is what gave Michael to believe he could create the greatest selling album of all time when he made THRILLER......the foundation is what made the global embrace possible, for if it wasn't for the foundation, BAD, DANGEROUS, HISTORY would not have been realized

THRILLER was so huge, it had ALREADY become the greatest selling album ever before he even unleashed the Thriller video, by that point, the album was selling over one million copies a week and remained at the top of the album charts for 37 straight weeks (almost 10 months straight)

THRILLER was so huge, the day after the MOTOWN 25 performance and the premier of the Thriller video, when we went to school the next day...we didn't even have classes

the reason why?....because the teachers and the school principal were talking about those moments just as much as the students......those moments resembled national holidays

Mike combined showmanship, music, and entertainment and blew the cap off the lid with that album

what was amazing about the entire experience....when THRILLER was released, it was done so inconspicously, with marginal promotion, no videos (because Billie Jean) wasn't released until 3 months later.....the album just continued to build momentum w/each song, and when it reached its apex, its zenith, it ran like a locomotive

where BAD sold 25 million copies worldwide during its initial run, THRILLER sold 25 million copies in the united states alone

and because of the fact BAD did not meet Michael's expectations, he fired his manager Frank Dileo and severed his relationship w/Quincy Jones......when in fact, they weren't the problem

THRILLER sold 47 million during its initial run, so if he sold 25 million copies of that album in america, the other 22 million was sold beyond this country

BAD sold 25 million copies its initial run, and by selling 6-8 million copies here in america, that means the other 17-19 million were sold beyond the country.....

so if that's the case, then THRILLER sold more internationally than BAD did, but the initial legs of his BAD tour he performed in Japan, Australia, and Europe gave the impression that wasn't the case when it was the case all along....

it's no accident that no other artist has produced an album that has outsold THRILLER in 30 years time, it's because we continue to disregard the foundation his original fan following play in making his global success possible and the how the contribution of culture (that which was not acknowleged by the establishment) played a vital role as well

and because of this lack of acknowledgement, that's what gives the commercial media and audience that MICHAEL started wearing the glittered glove during MOTOWN 25 when he was sporting the glove some 4 years beforehand.....

The perception was skewed...because what really happened is that Michael had to transition to becoming an international artist in order to extend his career, because he lost his american fanbase, in particular, his initial fan following from 1969-1984

he evolved into international presence, not by choice, but by the need to do it

[Edited 9/8/12 20:06pm]

Great Analysis. glad to see some people making sense on Mj behalf. Please eloborate more....also with BAD also started the change of his look...everybody wondered why he was white. Could this be the reason why he lost many fans?

[Edited 9/8/12 20:33pm]

.

[Edited 9/8/12 20:53pm]

OzlemUcucu said:

Scorp said:

nothing....NOTHING was more profound than the REAL MICHAELMANIA that sprung forth during the age of THRILLER, which was given its platform to accomplish what it did after Michael Jackson released his greatest work right out the box with OFF THE WALL, an album that Michael has stated to be the best album he ever made as well as his favorite album to have worked on

what the world saw when Michael performed on MOTOWN 25 as commercial media deemed "shocking" was already presented in the midst of his initial fan following during the years of OFF THE WALL......that's why the audience at the civic auditorium on that night knew that he was going to before Billie Jean before he started doing it.....because of the connection

what the world saw during THRILLER was already seen live during those live shows from 1979-1981, especially during the Triumph Tour, the best tour he ever done, which has been confirmed by Tito Jackson when he appeared for the opening of that movie for THIS IS IT

what make it so bad, as amazing as MOTOWN 25 was, and it was a performance of all time, he scaled down the style of his dancing even then....he danced way funkier during OFF THE WALL

I was 10 years old, when my father got me and my younger brother tickets to see the Triumph Tour in person.....

and during that concert, Michael's dancing was so magnificent, it was frightening, god frightening, but in a beautiful way....uttering dance moves so tight, it was so real, the audience wouldn't even try and imitate it..he was conceiving the dance (really conceiving the dance) on the fly.....

THRILLER was the culmination, the fulfillment of black american struggle in the united states rising to the forefront thru the realm of music, where Michael and Quincy Jones created a body of music that flowed from 40 years of music shaped by culture that was denied the recognition it deserved from so many decades before

those who have the platform today claim that album's success stood as fluke, but they don't understand the context in which that album was crafted, and the circumstance it was born out of, because of culture carrying such a strong impact, that which Michael Jackson's talent was shaped by, that foundation is what gave Michael to believe he could create the greatest selling album of all time when he made THRILLER......the foundation is what made the global embrace possible, for if it wasn't for the foundation, BAD, DANGEROUS, HISTORY would not have been realized

THRILLER was so huge, it had ALREADY become the greatest selling album ever before he even unleashed the Thriller video, by that point, the album was selling over one million copies a week and remained at the top of the album charts for 37 straight weeks (almost 10 months straight)

THRILLER was so huge, the day after the MOTOWN 25 performance and the premier of the Thriller video, when we went to school the next day...we didn't even have classes

the reason why?....because the teachers and the school principal were talking about those moments just as much as the students......those moments resembled national holidays

Mike combined showmanship, music, and entertainment and blew the cap off the lid with that album

what was amazing about the entire experience....when THRILLER was released, it was done so inconspicously, with marginal promotion, no videos (because Billie Jean) wasn't released until 3 months later.....the album just continued to build momentum w/each song, and when it reached its apex, its zenith, it ran like a locomotive

where BAD sold 25 million copies worldwide during its initial run, THRILLER sold 25 million copies in the united states alone

and because of the fact BAD did not meet Michael's expectations, he fired his manager Frank Dileo and severed his relationship w/Quincy Jones......when in fact, they weren't the problem

THRILLER sold 47 million during its initial run, so if he sold 25 million copies of that album in america, the other 22 million was sold beyond this country

BAD sold 25 million copies its initial run, and by selling 6-8 million copies here in america, that means the other 17-19 million were sold beyond the country.....

so if that's the case, then THRILLER sold more internationally than BAD did, but the initial legs of his BAD tour he performed in Japan, Australia, and Europe gave the impression that wasn't the case when it was the case all along....

it's no accident that no other artist has produced an album that has outsold THRILLER in 30 years time, it's because we continue to disregard the foundation his original fan following play in making his global success possible and the how the contribution of culture (that which was not acknowleged by the establishment) played a vital role as well

and because of this lack of acknowledgement, that's what gives the commercial media and audience that MICHAEL started wearing the glittered glove during MOTOWN 25 when he was sporting the glove some 4 years beforehand.....

The perception was skewed...because what really happened is that Michael had to transition to becoming an international artist in order to extend his career, because he lost his american fanbase, in particular, his initial fan following from 1969-1984

he evolved into international presence, not by choice, but by the need to do it

[Edited 9/8/12 20:06pm]

Great Analysis. glad to see some people making sense on Mj behalf. Please eloborate more....also with BAD also started the change of his look...everybody wondered why he was white. Could this be the reason why he lost many fans?

[Edited 9/8/12 20:33pm]

it was a beautiful moment in time.......

in one year, Michael Jackson unleashed the greatest live stage performance (Motown 25), the greatest anticipated dance move in The Moonwalk, and the greatest music video of all time

it was one wave after the next....it was light a great chapter of a book that should never be closed....

the talent spoke for itself.......

yes, you're correct, that was the exact reason why he lost millions of fans

for every new fan he gained after his change of appearance, he lost 3 fans as a result, and that ration resulted in the trajectory of his record sales after THRILLER

he lost over half his american fanbase....where Thriller sold 25 million copies in America, Bad sold 6-8 million copies, a 20 million decline in sales....that's staggering.......

it's going to reach a point where we've seen one hell of a career.....he created 40 years worth of music that will be cherished

but to do real service, we all eventually need to set aside the entertainment value and acknowledge the contributing factors that led to this man's travail to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else ever again...

we lost an artist of the greatest magnitude....

I'm sure w/out any doubt...if we would have witnessed the Michael Jackson who existed during the years of Off The Wall and Thriller, all of his albums after that stage of his career would have sold more than they actually did

becuase while generating a new generation of fans, he would have maintained the support of those who were there from the beginning

now that would have been the greatest story ever told.....just imagine that

[Edited 9/8/12 20:52pm]

Scorp said:

OzlemUcucu said:

Great Analysis. glad to see some people making sense on Mj behalf. Please eloborate more....

I liked the positivity of yo writing, thought it was a good way of describing MJ. Trust me not a lot of MJ fans leave that impression. I hardly read all that stuff.

However, you will have to agree. His change of skin colour caused too many confusions, and the term Wacko Jacko began.

Scorp said:

Scorp said:

it was a beautiful moment in time.......

in one year, Michael Jackson unleashed the greatest live stage performance (Motown 25), the greatest anticipated dance move in The Moonwalk, and the greatest music video of all time

it was one wave after the next....it was light a great chapter of a book that should never be closed....

the talent spoke for itself.......

yes, you're correct, that was the exact reason why he lost millions of fans

for every new fan he gained after his change of appearance, he lost 3 fans as a result, and that ration resulted in the trajectory of his record sales after THRILLER

he lost over half his american fanbase....where Thriller sold 25 million copies in America, Bad sold 6-8 million copies, a 20 million decline in sales....that's staggering.......

it's going to reach a point where we've seen one hell of a career.....he created 40 years worth of music that will be cherished

but to do real service, we all eventually need to set aside the entertainment value and acknowledge the contributing factors that led to this man's travail to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else ever again...

we lost an artist of the greatest magnitude....

I'm sure w/out any doubt...if we would have witnessed the Michael Jackson who existed during the years of Off The Wall and Thriller, all of his albums after that stage of his career would have sold more than they actually did

becuase while generating a new generation of fans, he would have maintained the support of those who were there from the beginning

now that would have been the greatest story ever told.....just imagine that

[Edited 9/8/12 20:52pm]

As you said, he opened up new markets for him globally with diverse audiences. It all happened with the change of skin colour. For the Non US countries it was confusing. I remember thinking this is a black artist, yet he is not black nor European or Asian. I thought it lacked authenticity. He lost lots of his Africna American followers. These are of course my point of view

whatsgoingon said:

Scorp said:

it was a beautiful moment in time.......

in one year, Michael Jackson unleashed the greatest live stage performance (Motown 25), the greatest anticipated dance move in The Moonwalk, and the greatest music video of all time

it was one wave after the next....it was light a great chapter of a book that should never be closed....

the talent spoke for itself...........

U said it well. Even when it came to fashion the reign, I remember the thriller jackets being everywhere too. as well as everyone looking quite silly with their one gloves. Unfortunately, the days and weeks after MJ death remindedme of the Thriller era with mj pictures and music being everywhere. What I found more ironic is that wacko jacko slogan practically cease and the tribute pages in the papers I was reading decided to focus on the younger MJ more than the MJ of the last 20 YRS?

exactly.....Michael Jackson was an artist of the highest order, and that's how he was viewed during the years of his glory......only those last 20-25 years was he referred to as Wacko Jacko, which started after Thriller

as you said the slogan ceased after that ill fated day

Michael Jackson had great intentions.....that's why, despite of what I saw taking place with him, those intentions fueled by the message in his music is what led me to continue supporting his albums

the message was off the charts

he received bad advice from opportunists in the record industry who encouraged him to make choices that would prove so detrimental

as the years went by, particularly by the mid 90s, Michael gave word (thru song) that he wanted to turn back the clock, but knew he couldn't.....

OzlemUcucu said:

Scorp said:

it was a beautiful moment in time.......

in one year, Michael Jackson unleashed the greatest live stage performance (Motown 25), the greatest anticipated dance move in The Moonwalk, and the greatest music video of all time

it was one wave after the next....it was light a great chapter of a book that should never be closed....

the talent spoke for itself.......

yes, you're correct, that was the exact reason why he lost millions of fans

for every new fan he gained after his change of appearance, he lost 3 fans as a result, and that ration resulted in the trajectory of his record sales after THRILLER

he lost over half his american fanbase....where Thriller sold 25 million copies in America, Bad sold 6-8 million copies, a 20 million decline in sales....that's staggering.......

it's going to reach a point where we've seen one hell of a career.....he created 40 years worth of music that will be cherished

but to do real service, we all eventually need to set aside the entertainment value and acknowledge the contributing factors that led to this man's travail to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else ever again...

we lost an artist of the greatest magnitude....

I'm sure w/out any doubt...if we would have witnessed the Michael Jackson who existed during the years of Off The Wall and Thriller, all of his albums after that stage of his career would have sold more than they actually did

becuase while generating a new generation of fans, he would have maintained the support of those who were there from the beginning

now that would have been the greatest story ever told.....just imagine that

[Edited 9/8/12 20:52pm]

As you said, he opened up new markets for him globally with diverse audiences. It all happened with the change of skin colour. For the Non US countries it was confusing. I remember thinking this is a black artist, yet he is not black nor European or Asian. I thought it lacked authenticity. He lost lots of his Africna American followers. These are of course my point of view

everything you said is 100%, 150% true and I'm so glad to see this being acknowledged....

that lets me know that absolute truth will win out and that eventually, we'll all come to acknowledge it

I respect you and your willingness to express this so freely, and I'm sure more and more people will do so in the very near future

as I black person myself, it's rewarding to see

I appreciate you

Scorp said:

OzlemUcucu said:

As you said, he opened up new markets for him globally with diverse audiences. It all happened with the change of skin colour. For the Non US countries it was confusing. I remember thinking this is a black artist, yet he is not black nor European or Asian. I thought it lacked authenticity. He lost lots of his Africna American followers. These are of course my point of view

everything you said is 100%, 150% true and I'm so glad to see this being acknowledged....

that lets me know that absolute truth will win out and that eventually, we'll all come to acknowledge it

I respect you and your willingness to express this so freely, and I'm sure more and more people will do so in the very near future

as I black person myself, it's rewarding to see

I appreciate you

And ultimately this is the greatest scam that happened to him. Not only did he outsell his origin/authenticity distancing himself from the core, but also became the commercial victim of the universe. He later began singing about all the grief that surrounded him. I do believe with his own transformation, he become the ugly face of all the problems that prevailed. Has he not chosen to transform, he wouldn't have been a victim, and ultimately still be alive.

All this is of course my point of view,

OzlemUcucu said:

Scorp said:

everything you said is 100%, 150% true and I'm so glad to see this being acknowledged....

that lets me know that absolute truth will win out and that eventually, we'll all come to acknowledge it

I respect you and your willingness to express this so freely, and I'm sure more and more people will do so in the very near future

as I black person myself, it's rewarding to see

I appreciate you

And ultimately this is the greatest scam that happened to him. Not only did he outsell his origin/authenticity distancing himself from the core, but also became the commercial victim of the universe. He later began singing about all the grief that surrounded him. I do believe with his own transformation, he become the ugly face of all the problems that prevailed. Has he not chosen to transform, he wouldn't have been a victim, and ultimately still be alive.

All this is of course my point of view,

I have to say, after 25 years, to read something of this magnitude

I have to be honest, I shed a tear, and I'm being real when I say this

there's nothing greater on this earth than the truth, because when we hear it or read it, we know its absolute, there are no angles, agendas, or pretense associated with it....

it's our greatest gift

this is how we heal, this is how we learn from this situation

because behind the bright lights, and the hysteria, and the 80,000-100,000 crowds filling those stadiums watching him perform

what you shared w/me is exactly what was traveling through Michael Jackson's mind because he knew something was missing, and years later, as early as 1991, he would begin to expound on it by writing such songs as WILL YOU BE THERE, and he would later utter the plea during the years of HISTORY w/songs such as STRANGER IN MOSCOW where he acknowledged to the world he because the commercial victim of the universe, but few were really listening.....as you say, he shared all the grief that surrounded him and his music no longer expressed that awesome message that he once projected during the years of glory

he was pop music's ultimate casualty, robbing him of his essential goodness, but he wouldn't let the association go because 1.) he invested so many years seeking it and 2.) he absolutely loved the privilege given to him by embracing the path of transformation....which resulted in greater self conflict as his career evolved over time after reaching the pinnacle

and he resented that path, because once he realized he was robbed, he expressed that anger in his music during the years of HISTORY, that was an album primarily geared towards attacking the establishment

he got caught up into embracing an ideal which has proven to be the greatest illusion we have ever seen on a world public stage

I know his family has been crushed by it

as you so eloquently put it, if the man would have refrained from undergoing transformation, if he was never encouraged to do so....he will still be here today, and not just here, but making music on the same groundbreaking level he did back in the day....

that's the greatest tragedy of this whole deal.....the fact as to what could have been rather than what actually became.....

that's why the world does not want the truth to be revealed, because millions have played a role in what happened to this guy

once that truth breaks through though, it will do so in a very definitive way, and we can weed out the madness and understand that he did indeed mean well and wanted to share his message in a way that should have been allowed to reach its promise

Michael Jackson is loved, its that most rejected what he felt he had to do to be accepted

[Edited 9/8/12 22:32pm]

Scorp said:

I was 10 years old, when my father got me and my younger brother tickets to see the Triumph Tour in person.....

and during that concert, Michael's dancing was so magnificent, it was frightening, god frightening, but in a beautiful way....uttering dance moves so tight, it was so real, the audience wouldn't even try and imitate it..he was conceiving the dance (really conceiving the dance) on the fly.....

[Edited 9/8/12 20:06pm]

That all sounds incredible, beautiful and powerful--and I WANT TO SEE THAT CONCERT! Why oh why isnt that concert released on dvd? I know the footage exits, its out there somewhere...why dont they let the world see it?

THRILLER was so huge, the day after the MOTOWN 25 performance and the premier of the Thriller video, when we went to school the next day...we didn't even have classes

the reason why?....because the teachers and the school principal were talking about those moments just as much as the students......those moments resembled national holidays

Wow. I was alive during that time but too young to have experienced any of this. Sounds like it was a major point in time, you're very fortunate to have been old enough to experience it all and remember it. Thanks for sharing

Thank you and I understand where your opinion is coming from. This is exactly why I have problems with other MJ fans. They are absorbed with the negative things that are happening past Mj death, they are negative, grieving and constantly on debates leading further to this ugly transformation that he had turned into while he was alive , forcibly, and in the process they forget what MJ was about.

Isn't Dangerous full of it...his confusion of being a victim of everybody, of every fan. His last cry for help? Anyway, Scorp wanted to tell you that I am not an MJ fan tho I respect him as a musical genuis obviously, and these are opinions from a non hardcore MJ fan.

Such a shame that MJ died while he was lost.

Scorp said:

OzlemUcucu said:

NaughtyKitty said:

Scorp said:

That all sounds incredible, beautiful and powerful--and I WANT TO SEE THAT CONCERT! Why oh why isnt that concert released on dvd? I know the footage exits, its out there somewhere...why dont they let the world see it?

THRILLER was so huge, the day after the MOTOWN 25 performance and the premier of the Thriller video, when we went to school the next day...we didn't even have classes

the reason why?....because the teachers and the school principal were talking about those moments just as much as the students......those moments resembled national holidays

Wow. I was alive during that time but too young to have experienced any of this. Sounds like it was a major point in time, you're very fortunate to have been old enough to experience it all and remember it. Thanks for sharing

yes, it was an awesome moment in time, one for the ages.....

and I hope the Triumph Tour is released on DVD as well too......I believe you would get a kick out of it...

OzlemUcucu said:

Thank you and I understand where your opinion is coming from. This is exactly why I have problems with other MJ fans. They are absorbed with the negative things that are happening past Mj death, they are negative, grieving and constantly on debates leading further to this ugly transformation that he had turned into while he was alive , forcibly, and in the process they forget what MJ was about.

Isn't Dangerous full of it...his confusion of being a victim of everybody, of every fan. His last cry for help? Anyway, Scorp wanted to tell you that I am not an MJ fan tho I respect him as a musical genuis obviously, and these are opinions from a non hardcore MJ fan.

Such a shame that MJ died while he was lost.

Scorp said:

I definitely understand and it's good to communite in this fashion......I think its great.....

he got caught up in a realm that totally threw him off track, and he didn't see that coming