Free2BMe said:

Scorp said:

the black comunity and world community at large lost a hero

that unity was destroyed a quarter century ago

because the greatest entertainer on the planet morphed into becoming the "king of pop" which stunted the impact of the amazing message Michael presented in his music

the message was always consistent, I love the message to this day and will always love it, it was the manner in which Michael presented that message after reaching the pinnacle which became the detriment

for those who are now viewed as "haters" (which isn't true in the greatest context), nobody ever said he didn't deserve his success or that Michael's success was a byproduct of hype, that's what makes the situation more tragic

the truth of the manner is Jermaine and La Reid/Babyface was crying out to the man and plea w/him to stop trying to become somebody he wasnt...it was a cry out, not condemnation

because nobody else was in a position or given the platform to speak out..the establishment wouldn't allow it....

from 1987-1991, nothing was ever said about Michael's transformation because nobody was allowed to, especially the black community

what Jermaine said was already said among the people

and what was said in that record had already been said 4 years earlier when this tragedy began, it was being said in the neighborhoods, among families, on radio, on the playground and at the barbershops....the lyrics to that song were already being recited in the community but his current fanbase at that time and now was never made aware of it

what was said in that record, I had already heard in actual life beforehand.....

so if Jermaine is going to be attacked, then there's millions of people who need to be attacked too

[Edited 8/13/12 19:08pm]

[Edited 8/13/12 19:14pm]

[Edited 8/13/12 19:18pm]

The problem is that a lot in the black community REFUSED to believe Michael when he told Oprah that he had a "skin condition"(vitiligo) that turned him white. I remember the next day on the radio and in other places around my community, there were people who dismissed what he said. Although, all you had to do was to see that NO AMOUNT OF BLEACH COULD TURN YOU AS WHITE AS MICHAEL TURNED. Even after Michael died and the autopsy showed that he did have vitiligo, you have people who don't WANT to believe it.

[Edited 8/14/12 8:53am]

I agree with your ENTIRE post but I just wanted to specifically talk about this portion right here because Im so sick of the bullshit .

The autospy showed that Michael had vitiligo and if Michael had in fact bleached his skin it would have ALSO showed that....

People just want to believe what they want...and its sad that we the black community do that.... SOME are like crabs in a basket and we hate it when we see one of our brothers and sisters succeed. Its one thing to have an opinion about his music but to judge his character and things that he did based on gossip AFTER it was proven to be false.... SAD

Michael himself was unhappy about the Vitiligo... My own father has Vitiligo is not something pleasant people go through.... I could only imagine someone having to go through that in the spotlight!! where we have a superficial judgemental society consumed with how someone looks rather than their talents.

TD3 said:

I'm sorry I posted in this thread, I know better. One of the reasons I stay away from the MJ thread.

I'm sorry i posted here too. Opinion as fact gets on my last nerve.

Scorp said:

and that AUTOPSY that his current fan following love to hinge on, one that was never officially issued by a coroner, is full of inconsistencies that run contrasts to what his fans have suggested about the state of his health leading up to those 02 concerts (that was never going to see the late of day either)......

I cant help but crack up at Scorpio's posts... I really dont know how that man comes up with all these delusions in his head but it is entertaining to watch how far he goes with it

Not to mention he is not the family, never meant them to make all these accusations as FACT.

This fool really believes the Autospy is fake

but how much you willing to bet if Michaels autospy has said the exact opposite... his long ass rants would consist of mostly what the autospy stated?

[Edited 8/14/12 13:40pm]

mjscarousal said:

I cant help but crack up at Scorpio's posts... I really dont know how that man comes up with all these delusions in his head but it is entertaining to watch how far he goes with it

Not to mention he is not the family, never meant them to make all these accusations as FACT.

This fool really believes the Autospy is fake

hey, I suggest u watch who you call a fool.....because I can go on a whole other level....

see, I've been nice to you and never said anything bad about you....but if you want to get real, I can on a level you've never seen before....I ain't never called you out your name...I ain't gotta stoop that low

don't think I didn't know you would resort to that.....I'm already 3 steps ahead....

and it behooves me that people can't talk w/out using profanity thinking they are getting a point across when they really haven't....duped from upholding the lies..

that's how whack this situation is.......

see, this situation is all out tragic, because this man chose a route and his transformation has cultivated the most hate-filled, nasty, ambivalent following in modern culture in the history of music.....a fanbase that threatented a woman on the internet and threatened her w/physical harm, a white woman, and she became so filled w/anxiety, she had a heart attack and died before paramedics could revive her....so we're talking about aggravated assault, 2nd degree murder...sounds mighty familiar......a woman is dead because she questioned the lies, a life is gone of real bullshit as you like to refer to...but the media never reported this incident

the transformation pitted his original following against those who he manipulated to uphold the lies....

and YOU AIN'T FAMILY EITHER...so that means you are hanging on to your own words, so that mean's your view ain't better than nobody else.....

see, the original following never had to beef w/each other when this stuff is real, but he was led that support wasn't good enough and he sought something else that he thought was better......

I never had an argument w/any other MJ fan back in the day, didn't have to, wasn't no lies to uphold or that building barriers

you want to talk about delusion, there's no delusion greater than believing he fathered those 3 kids when he didn't....

oh, and you wanna bring up the autopsy.......we'll let's do that.....

how many lbs did that autopsy indicate Michael weigh on the day of 6/25/2009?.....

how many pounds did it say it he weighed

oh, and that dr. murray trial, there were tons of inconsistencies that played out that did not follow standard protocol......that can broken down too.....

see, you and the fanbase have been manipulated but can't see it......

[Edited 8/14/12 13:43pm]

[Edited 8/14/12 13:44pm]

Where did I use profanity?

It is foolish to insist that an Autopsy is fake and a Coroner would release a fake autospy my comment had nothing to do with MJs three children or the death trial

All your posts are YOUR opinion that you want to desperately past off as fact. Nothing wrong with having an opinion but dont disrespect other fan bases and people just because people dont agree. You got some nerve calling me out but you have sat up here and have been disrespectful the other time implying that people are brainwashed just because nobody agrees with you...

Scorpio do yourself a favor and dont respond to me

O and I can get REAL TRUST ME... Im just trying to IGNORE YOU why dont you do the same like you said previously....

[Edited 8/14/12 13:50pm]

...

[Edited 8/14/12 14:09pm]

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

Where did I use profanity?

It is foolish to insist that an Autopsy is fake and a Coroner would release a fake autospy my comment had nothing to do with MJs three children or the death trial

All your posts are YOUR opinion that you want to desperately past off as fact. Nothing wrong with having an opinion but dont disrespect other fan bases and people just because people dont agree. You got some nerve calling me out but you have sat up here and have been disrespectful the other time implying that people are brainwashed just because nobody agrees with you...

Scorpio do yourself a favor and dont respond to me

O and I can get REAL TRUST ME... Im just trying to IGNORE YOU why dont you do the same like you said previously....

[Edited 8/14/12 13:50pm]

I don't call out individuals....never do..I call out the situation as a whole...big difference

and before you added your 2 cents to what I was saying to somebody else, I didnt mention your name or the person's name I was responding to...it was an A and B conversation

watch who you call a fool.....and apparently, you responded to what I said vs the other way around.....so who was really ignoring who?

like I said on that other forum, I don't hate anyone...I hate the situation.....it never had to be this way......never.......

stick to the question....

how many pounds did that autopsy say Michael weighed the day of 6/25/2009,

and if you don't want to answer the question...I would like feedback from someone else

[Edited 8/14/12 14:28pm]

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

I cant help but crack up at Scorpio's posts... I really dont know how that man comes up with all these delusions in his head but it is entertaining to watch how far he goes with it

Not to mention he is not the family, never meant them to make all these accusations as FACT.

This fool really believes the Autospy is fake

hey, I suggest u watch who you call a fool.....because I can go on a whole other level....

see, I've been nice to you and never said anything bad about you....but if you want to get real, I can on a level you've never seen before....I ain't never called you out your name...I ain't gotta stoop that low

don't think I didn't know you would resort to that.....I'm already 3 steps ahead....

and it behooves me that people can't talk w/out using profanity thinking they are getting a point across when they really haven't....duped from upholding the lies..

that's how whack this situation is.......

see, this situation is all out tragic, because this man chose a route and his transformation has cultivated the most hate-filled, nasty, ambivalent following in modern culture in the history of music.....a fanbase that threatented a woman on the internet and threatened her w/physical harm, a white woman, and she became so filled w/anxiety, she had a heart attack and died before paramedics could revive her....so we're talking about aggravated assault, 2nd degree murder...sounds mighty familiar......a woman is dead because she questioned the lies, a life is gone of real bullshit as you like to refer to...but the media never reported this incident

the transformation pitted his original following against those who he manipulated to uphold the lies....

and YOU AIN'T FAMILY EITHER...so that means you are hanging on to your own words, so that mean's your view ain't better than nobody else.....

see, the original following never had to beef w/each other when this stuff is real, but he was led that support wasn't good enough and he sought something else that he thought was better......

I never had an argument w/any other MJ fan back in the day, didn't have to, wasn't no lies to uphold or that building barriers

you want to talk about delusion, there's no delusion greater than believing he fathered those 3 kids when he didn't....

oh, and you wanna bring up the autopsy.......we'll let's do that.....

how many lbs did that autopsy indicate Michael weigh on the day of 6/25/2009?.....

how many pounds did it say it he weighed

oh, and that dr. murray trial, there were tons of inconsistencies that played out that did not follow standard protocol......that can broken down too.....

see, you and the fanbase have been manipulated but can't see it......

[Edited 8/14/12 13:43pm]

[Edited 8/14/12 13:44pm]

You know initially I thought Scorp was talking about things that he knew. However, after reading his posts in depth, I see that he is like all of the "arm-chair" psyco-babblers" who are talking out of their arse. This person TOTALLY ignores what he wants to, it doesn't matter what type of FACTS or evidence slaps him in the face. The audacity and arrogance of this person to say that Michael's "transformation" has cultivated the most "hate-filled" fan base. WTF is THAT all about? Is Scrop trying to sit here and tell us with a straight face that Michael Jackson fans are more "hate-filled"(Scorp's words) than Janet Jackson, Madonna, or Prince fans. I have never seen such "hate" as I have seen with those fans. So, Scorp, don't use hypocrisy and contradiction to get your liitte points across, because you are not succeeding and you sound like a someone who is not in touch with reality. Michael Jackson fans are fervent in their defense of Michael. Just as fans of the aforementioned are, also. The problem that some of you have with MJ fans is that we don't subscribe to the lame, weak, ignorant beliefs of others. I know that there are SOME MJ fans who may go too far;however, it is pure ignorance to paint all MJ fans with the same brush. IMO, there are Janet, Prince and Madonna fans who are as "out there" as what YOU say about MJ fans. What you claim is NOT exclusive to Michael Jackson fans. If you were really up on your "homework", you would know that.

Btw, what "white woman" are you talking about in your rant? IF, the media didn't report it, then how do YOU know that it happened? Was it a loved one, famly member of yours? How do you come off blaming ALL Michael Jackson fans for your so-called incident, that may or may not be true. Again things like this negates anything that you have to say, imo.

You keep mentioning "tranformation". WHAT transformation. It is pathetic to blame a person because they have vitiligo. I guess you blame Michael because he had lupus. If your so-called "transformation" means wearing a different hairstyle, or "getting a nose job", then again you are being crass and un-knowledgeable. So, I guess, in YOUR opiion, it would have been better for Michael to have the vitililigo, keep an Afro, and his original nose. How utterly stupid. Why is it alright for other artists to change their hairstyle and not Michael. Are you trying to tell me that other black men can process,straighten their hair, wear it long and Michael can't. Are you saying that Elvis Presley, basically all of the Jackson family, and everyone else in Hollywood can get their "noses" done and Michael can't. Where do YOU and others like you have the right to try and tell ANYONE what they can do. Michael's appearance never altered my respect for him, or love for his music. For those people, like you, who ALLOWED that to happen., that is YOUR problem, not Michael's.

In your psycho babble, you actually act as if Michael FORCED fans to become fans. NO ONE was forced to become a Michael Jackson fan. You were either one or you weren't. The world didn't end if you were not an MJ fan. I say BULLSHIT to your assertion that Michael's so-called "transformation"(your words) pitted his original fan base against others... IF this is/was true, then you and others like you have only YOURSELVES to blame for being weak enough to use Michael's appearance as a basis for being or remaining a fan. Don't blame Michael for YOUR insecurities, biases, or whatever you want to call your problem with Michael's "looks".

Michael affects his fans on a spiritual level. That is not something that he FORCED upon fans. It's just the way it is. I also think that "spiritualism" is something that affected even non-fans. It is something that can't be explained and I don't know any other artist, entertainer IN HISTORY who has had that same effect. IMO, it is something God-Given, unexplainable. I have heard, seen, read people who say that just being in Michael's presence made them feel like no other person they have ever been around. Are YOU going to blame Michael because he had that type of essence or charisma or presence? Are you blaming those things on your so-called version of his "transformation". If you are, then I pity you because you have a serious problem. Michael was "different". He was ALWAYS different. There was no one like him and there will NEVER be anyone else like him. If you want to go through your life blaming that uniqueness on "transformation", then that is YOUR problem, not Michael's.

Free2BMe said:

Scorp said:

hey, I suggest u watch who you call a fool.....because I can go on a whole other level....

see, I've been nice to you and never said anything bad about you....but if you want to get real, I can on a level you've never seen before....I ain't never called you out your name...I ain't gotta stoop that low

don't think I didn't know you would resort to that.....I'm already 3 steps ahead....

and it behooves me that people can't talk w/out using profanity thinking they are getting a point across when they really haven't....duped from upholding the lies..

that's how whack this situation is.......

see, this situation is all out tragic, because this man chose a route and his transformation has cultivated the most hate-filled, nasty, ambivalent following in modern culture in the history of music.....a fanbase that threatented a woman on the internet and threatened her w/physical harm, a white woman, and she became so filled w/anxiety, she had a heart attack and died before paramedics could revive her....so we're talking about aggravated assault, 2nd degree murder...sounds mighty familiar......a woman is dead because she questioned the lies, a life is gone of real bullshit as you like to refer to...but the media never reported this incident

the transformation pitted his original following against those who he manipulated to uphold the lies....

and YOU AIN'T FAMILY EITHER...so that means you are hanging on to your own words, so that mean's your view ain't better than nobody else.....

see, the original following never had to beef w/each other when this stuff is real, but he was led that support wasn't good enough and he sought something else that he thought was better......

I never had an argument w/any other MJ fan back in the day, didn't have to, wasn't no lies to uphold or that building barriers

you want to talk about delusion, there's no delusion greater than believing he fathered those 3 kids when he didn't....

oh, and you wanna bring up the autopsy.......we'll let's do that.....

how many lbs did that autopsy indicate Michael weigh on the day of 6/25/2009?.....

how many pounds did it say it he weighed

oh, and that dr. murray trial, there were tons of inconsistencies that played out that did not follow standard protocol......that can broken down too.....

see, you and the fanbase have been manipulated but can't see it......

[Edited 8/14/12 13:43pm]

[Edited 8/14/12 13:44pm]

You know initially I thought Scorp was talking about things that he knew. However, after reading his posts in depth, I see that he is like all of the "arm-chair" psyco-babblers" who are talking out of their arse. This person TOTALLY ignores what he wants to, it doesn't matter what type of FACTS or evidence slaps him in the face. The audacity and arrogance of this person to say that Michael's "transformation" has cultivated the most "hate-filled" fan base. WTF is THAT all about? Is Scrop trying to sit here and tell us with a straight face that Michael Jackson fans are more "hate-filled"(Scorp's words) than Janet Jackson, Madonna, or Prince fans. I have never seen such "hate" as I have seen with those fans. So, Scorp, don't use hypocrisy and contradiction to get your liitte points across, because you are not succeeding and you sound like a someone who is not in touch with reality. Michael Jackson fans are fervent in their defense of Michael. Just as fans of the aforementioned are, also. The problem that some of you have with MJ fans is that we don't subscribe to the lame, weak, ignorant beliefs of others. I know that there are SOME MJ fans who may go too far;however, it is pure ignorance to paint all MJ fans with the same brush. IMO, there are Janet, Prince and Madonna fans who are as "out there" as what YOU say about MJ fans. What you claim is NOT exclusive to Michael Jackson fans. If you were really up on your "homework", you would know that.

w/out question, his transformation has cultivated the most hate-filled fan following in modern culture whose sole purpose is to uphold the lies.....

there's no question his transformation cultivated the most hate filled fan following because the nature of what he did to himself is rooted in hate, not love,

there's no question his transformation cultivated the most hate filled fan following when I've witnessed, particularly over the last 4 years, on most of his fan forums, on tmz, on you-tube, on social media outlets have referred to this man's family as "muthafuckas" "assholes" "bitches" "sluts" and "whores"....calling an 82 year old woman a "bitch ass muthafucka".....

an 82 year old woman?......an 82 year old woman?.....an 82 year old woman? calling her a bitch ass muthafucka...calling Rebbie a slut, calling Janet a whore.....

and that's something to be proud of?....that's something to honor? that's something to respect?

now you tell me where love stands when this type of derogatory language is directed at this family....and it's not just fans now who are doing so, but it's commercial media, including radio outlet who is now spewing hatred for a situation that's rooted in a lie from the get-go

this is what 43 years have been reduced to....and for those who represent his current following who don't utter that crap language, they still CONDONE IT because they are keen to uphold the lies....so therefore, they don't call it out, so it's all the same at the end of the day

but those who utter such hate won't come on tv and spew that crap because they know what's up

people's lives have been threatened by members of his fan following because they won't uphold the lies....

was this type of communication taking place from 1969-1985? hell naw....we didn't roll like that, because during those years, that's when this stuff meant something, that was destroyed beginning in 1987

because of the need to uphold the lies, this family had to deal w/a fake "stun gun incident" concocted by those who uphold them...where a SWAT team flew over the roof of the family home in Encino, helicopter and all, flying around in circles as if they were looking for someone from the FBI's top 10 most wanted list...that's never happened to them during all the years they have lived their since the 70s....but the reason that stunt was concocted was because of those 3 kids, nothing more and nothing less, and his fans didn't want his real family to be around them...and because of that chaos, after 40 years, Katherine had to move out of her home as a result....that's how crap this all is

You keep mentioning "tranformation". WHAT transformation. It is pathetic to blame a person because they have vitiligo. I guess you blame Michael because he had lupus. If your so-called "transformation" means wearing a different hairstyle, or "getting a nose job", then again you are being crass and un-knowledgeable. So, I guess, in YOUR opiion, it would have been better for Michael to have the vitililigo, keep an Afro, and his original nose. How utterly stupid. Why is it alright for other artists to change their hairstyle and not Michael. Are you trying to tell me that other black men can process,straighten their hair, wear it long and Michael can't. Are you saying that Elvis Presley, basically all of the Jackson family, and everyone else in Hollywood can get their "noses" done and Michael can't. Where do YOU and others like you have the right to try and tell ANYONE what they can do. Michael's appearance never altered my respect for him, or love for his music. For those people, like you, who ALLOWED that to happen., that is YOUR problem, not Michael's.

and this is the whole crux of the problem....and this is why the majority of the public realizes he never had that disease

there are tons of people living everyday life who have lived with vitiligo, people who are suffering from albinism, but they dont' alter their nose, or their other original facial features to "cope" with it

what in the world does altering your nose have to do w/having a skin disorder...this ain't about hairstyle...he had already changed his hairstyle when he released OFF THE WALL, 8 years before his skin complexion changed, and during THRILLER, when millions of black teenagers where tyring to get the same type of curl he had...hairstyle ain't the issue

so if a person acquires vitiligo, the recommended mode of therapy is to change your nose, is that what you're trying to tell me?

vitiligo has absolutely nothing to do w/having plastic surgery

in regards to hollywood's standard of promoting plastic surgery as a "means of passage"...the majority of these high profile stars are going overboard with it now.....and they are destroying their face, and overall health in the process......

kanye west's mother died from having it

Usher's ex-wife nearly died from having it

Elvis's Presley's widow have had serious health complications from it

women are getting boob jobs that is jeopardizing the ability for their breasts to function properly because fluid from the saline implants are piercing into their blood stream

female stars who are full figured having tons of lypo-suction w/out being told the possible side effects, making them appear gaunt in the face because they ain't eating like they should

Kenny Rogers, who was one of the coolest looking cats, robust looking guy, his entire life has been destroyed by this stuff, he can't even perform like he used too

and a woman outside of the entertainment realm life is screwed because a guy injected cement and fix a flat into her buttocks

what I'm saying is, plastic surgery is dangerous business because it preys on people's insecurities and actually excascerbates the problem they originally had w/their self image....

they are preying on all these stars....

Lisa Rina (I think that's her name) had that crap injected into her lips and suffered major nerve damage, she couldn't move her lips

botox destroys natural nerve function, which dissapates over time, that's why many of these stars who do have botox injected into their forehead can't exert natural facial expressions...

I can't stand plastic surgery when it's promoted to cultivate self image, it creates more harm than good, because it can not make a person whole, because wholeness is something that has to originate from within

and the reason these stars have this crap, is becuase they feel they need to do it to feel accepted by certain groups of people, including Michael Jackson....

Nobody in that family needed that stuff, they were all beautiful in their natural state....

see for me, if I enjoy your talent, I will do so by you representing who you're meant to be, and since that's the case, no matter what your race, creed, or color is, that's why I don't feel bad about anything I say, because I know my support was genuine, and because of that, I never had to take a stance which required me to respond overzealously if a favorite artist of mine made made a decision that was counterproductive......

all of these stars are getting juked out of the opportunity to age gracefully....because these plastic surgeons do not consult w/these patients in the manner they supposed to, they don't tell them having extensive surgery actually accelerates the aging process......

Michael's fans NEVER, NEVER, NEEEEEEEEVER mentioned the human toll that plastic surgery had on him, and the way that surgery destroyed his body to the point where his dermatologist said on national television shortly after 6/25/2009 that Michael had to visit his office almost on a daily basis while preparing for those 02 concerts that was never going to happen...he said he had to rebuild Michael's nose by inserting acidic filler so it could maintain structure because it had totally collapsed on him, meaning the man could barely breath out of it, meaning he had been wearing a prosthetic for god knows how long, probably since the early to mid 90s, and since he couldn't breath hardly, that's why he had all those oxygen tanks in his bedroom, that's why he'd been reliant on pain medication and propofol stemming back to the 1990s, because of all the damage that plastic surgery had on him....and to this day, they still won't acknowledge it because they have to uphold the lies...it cut his livelihood short

by that point, how many records he sold or the number of shows he sold out didn't mean anything to me because his humanity was shot

so dont sit here and tell me this stuff wasn't a problem when it was...the entertainment value became secondary to me a long time ago when the human toll needed to be considered...

there is way too much pressure for these people to conform to a standard of beauty that's unrealistic to obtain....that is when one is REALLY OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY

and the beauty standard is shaped by the ideology of white superiority, a beauty standard that is encouraging people of color, black people in america, the caribbean and in africa to lighten their skin, damaging their lives in the process, a standard of beauty that's damaging white people too

baseball player SAMMY SOSA lightened his skin

and when I say white superiority, I'm not referring to common day white folk, I'm not talking to the body of white citizens in this country who are fair minded and look to acknowledge the damage racism continues to inflict on our psyches

I'm talking about a standard that is upheld, reinforced by the establishment......

you may not like what I'm saying but I'm saying the truth no matter what....that's what's most important to me, that's more important than music and entertainment

for if Michael Jackson was allowed to be who he was meant to be, he would still be making music today, but he was robbed of his essential goodness 25 years ago as he sought the pop mantle

and by his actions towards the end, his action indicated that he regretted every day of it and longed to be what he was encouraged to move beyond by opportunists w/in the recording industry who sought to exploit his talent to the NTH degree

and during the 80s, Michael wasn't the only premier black artist who was encouraged to alter their appearance....a great number fo them were

do you know why the Jackson Family underwent nose alteration?....becuase their record company encouraged them to do so, they were introduced to the plastic surgery with the idea they could gain a broader (how ironic) commercial audience during the time where the recording industry and radio programming was segregated, and this effort is what gave birth to the crossover phenomenon of the early 80s, which led to the pop ascension movement of the late 80s which has ripped the heart out of geniune cultural expression, and because of that, real R&B music has been wiped off the map...the very music that has served as the lifeline of today's industry by way of sampling.....but the actual artists who made this music were cast out because they represent cultural identity

In your psycho babble, you actually act as if Michael FORCED fans to become fans. NO ONE was forced to become a Michael Jackson fan. You were either one or you weren't. The world didn't end if you were not an MJ fan. I say BULLSHIT to your assertion that Michael's so-called "transformation"(your words) pitted his original fan base against others... IF this is/was true, then you and others like you have only YOURSELVES to blame for being weak enough to use Michael's appearance as a basis for being or remaining a fan. Don't blame Michael for YOUR insecurities, biases, or whatever you want to call your problem with Michael's "looks".

and check this out......this is why I don't have to direct profanity laced responses towards others....

the original following from 1969-1984 (85 with WE ARE THE WORLD) were fleeced out and phased out as a new audience was brought forth by the establishment when the BAD album was released....now due to the greatest anticipation for a follow up album in recording history, the original fan following couldn't wait to hear Mike's first album since THRILLER...the stage was set where he could have actually outsold THRILLER

BAD released and sold 16 million copies worldwide during its first 2 months, a record that was on pace to outsell its predecessor by a mile, but sales hit a brick wall to the point even with a world wide debut solo tour, countless promotion, the support of tv special highlighting his years of glory, the endorsement of Pepsi Cola, and the promotion of music videos, BAD completed its initial run by selling 25 million copies worldwide, a figure Mike was shocked by....

if he would have maintained the support of his original following while garnering a new generation of fans, ALL of his albums after THRILLER would have sold more than they actually did and would have been promoted differently.....

that alone highlights the divide that had took place but his evolving fanbase from that point on was never made aware of it because the establishment surely wasn't going to speak on it....and the reason he lost that support from the original following was because of his evolving appearance which changed drastically, whereas the the audience brought forth by the establishment (even when they don't realize it) accepted it with open arms

if things were allowed to evolve naturally, where Michael was never asked to obliterate his natural being after reaching the pinnacle, his original following and evolving fanbase would have walked on one accord

as far as who's perceived as being weak, usually those who make those assertions are the ones who respond in such fashion when the lies are being challenged......

if you're going to insinuate I'm weak, then that means the 20 million who did not buy BAD who bought THRILLER are too and I doubt that was the case.....

and if you want to blame someone, it would be best to direct that at those who uphold the lies

Michael affects his fans on a spiritual level. That is not something that he FORCED upon fans. It's just the way it is. I also think that "spiritualism" is something that affected even non-fans. It is something that can't be explained and I don't know any other artist, entertainer IN HISTORY who has had that same effect. IMO, it is something God-Given, unexplainable. I have heard, seen, read people who say that just being in Michael's presence made them feel like no other person they have ever been around. Are YOU going to blame Michael because he had that type of essence or charisma or presence? Are you blaming those things on your so-called version of his "transformation". If you are, then I pity you because you have a serious problem. Michael was "different". He was ALWAYS different. There was no one like him and there will NEVER be anyone else like him. If you want to go through your life blaming that uniqueness on "transformation", then that is YOUR problem, not Michael's.

as far as uniqueness, everyone who is born into this world is unique....

God does not encourage these public figures to undergo rounds and rounds of plastic surgery to receive his favor.....society does that.....

God would ask for us to learn how to love ourselves and for people to accept each other in their natural state, rather than embrace a superficial point of reference that destroys people

Michael Jackson was already unique before he went the route he did.....and because of the route he chose and that he was encouraged to embrace an immensely gifted performer's livelihood was cut short as a result...

dont' pity me.....because I love the way I think because nothing about this situation that has went down in the past 25 years hasn't suprised me at all, not one single circumstance.....

because those who view this situation realistically could see this was not going to end of a good note, it was just a matter as to when....

I've seen many of his current fans who have said boldly, w/out any sense of hesitation, that they would have NEVER, EVER been a fan of Michael if he had remained visibly black, or if he never would have altered his features, and that's where that reality has nothing to do w/a skin disorder, a skin disorder would not lead people to utter that level of assertion

they have even said they would not have liked him when he was visibly black......

so those are the people you need to pity...that's how sad this situation is.....

see, the day commercial media can no longer exploit this situation to where they can benefit from it....when that day arrives, that's when the lies will be exposed once and for all.......

as far as the young lady who died from the threats, out of respect to her family, I won't reveal how I found out about it.....I don't exploit circumstances, because it ain't bringing her back

A vision blurred when the eyes can’t see, they say the truth will set you free.

[Edited 8/15/12 9:44am]

[Edited 8/15/12 10:42am]

Free2BMe said:

Michael affects his fans on a spiritual level.

Are you a nutjob?
He's just a singer.

Azz said:

Free2BMe said:

Michael affects his fans on a spiritual level.

Are you a nutjob?
He's just a singer.

Just a singer...

And with this statement, I know you're beyond explanation.

And no need to be insulting to Free2BMe. We're all affected differently by Michael's life, music, and passing. The least you could do is show a little respect, if not for him or a fan, at least for a human being.

Think I'll stick with the J-5 CD thread!

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

I cant help but crack up at Scorpio's posts... I really dont know how that man comes up with all these delusions in his head but it is entertaining to watch how far he goes with it

Not to mention he is not the family, never meant them to make all these accusations as FACT.

This fool really believes the Autospy is fake

see, this situation is all out tragic, because this man chose a route and his transformation has cultivated the most hate-filled, nasty, ambivalent following in modern culture in the history of music.....a fanbase that threatented a woman on the internet and threatened her w/physical harm, a white woman, and she became so filled w/anxiety, she had a heart attack and died before paramedics could revive her....so we're talking about aggravated assault, 2nd degree murder...sounds mighty familiar......a woman is dead because she questioned the lies, a life is gone of real bullshit as you like to refer to...but the media never reported this incident

Wha??!!! Wait....when did this happen? HOW did this happen? Could you please explain, if you dont mind? If you dont want to post it here you can orgnote me about it. I hadnt heard anything about this!

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Azz said:

Are you a nutjob?
He's just a singer.

Just a singer...

And with this statement, I know you're beyond explanation.

And no need to be insulting to Free2BMe. We're all affected differently by Michael's life, music, and passing. The least you could do is show a little respect, if not for him or a fan, at least for a human being.

People don't respect eachother on this forum; that's why they are constantly arguing and name-calling. Also because some are worryingly obsessive over an artist, particulary certain MJ fans, and they react mentally when anyone says anything about said singer.

And yes, he is just a singer/artist. And yes, this person needs serious help.

Michael affects his fans on a spiritual level. That is not something that he FORCED upon fans. It's just the way it is. I also think that "spiritualism" is something that affected even non-fans. It is something that can't be explained and I don't know any other artist, entertainer IN HISTORY who has had that same effect. IMO, it is something God-Given, unexplainable. I have heard, seen, read people who say that just being in Michael's presence made them feel like no other person they have ever been around. Are YOU going to blame Michael because he had that type of essence or charisma or presence? Are you blaming those things on your so-called version of his "transformation". If you are, then I pity you because you have a serious problem. Michael was "different". He was ALWAYS different. There was no one like him and there will NEVER be anyone else like him. If you want to go through your life blaming that uniqueness on "transformation", then that is YOUR problem, not Michael's.

[Edited 8/15/12 11:34am]

NaughtyKitty said:

Scorp said:

see, this situation is all out tragic, because this man chose a route and his transformation has cultivated the most hate-filled, nasty, ambivalent following in modern culture in the history of music.....a fanbase that threatented a woman on the internet and threatened her w/physical harm, a white woman, and she became so filled w/anxiety, she had a heart attack and died before paramedics could revive her....so we're talking about aggravated assault, 2nd degree murder...sounds mighty familiar......a woman is dead because she questioned the lies, a life is gone of real bullshit as you like to refer to...but the media never reported this incident

Wha??!!! Wait....when did this happen? HOW did this happen? Could you please explain, if you dont mind? If you dont want to post it here you can orgnote me about it. I hadnt heard anything about this!

I've searched and couldn't find anything.

Hi Ms. Naughty.

Azz said:

Scorp, I am not going to go through your psycho-babble word for word. However, it seems to me your main problem is that you are OBSESSED with Michael's appearance, AS IF that had something to do with a person's fandom. How utterly sick is that on YOUR part. Michael's appearance never for one instance changed my view of him. I have been a fan for OVER 30+ years and my love for Michael and his music only increased with the years. I loved him as a member of the Jackson 5 and that love grew when he became a solo star. It boggles the mind why you are so obsessed over one this man's appearance as if it affects your life. Even I, a mega-fan,have never let Michael affect me the way that he seemed to affect you. Very, very strange that you an avowed "hater" of Michael is more obsessed with him that a mega-fan like me. That tells you that something just isn't right with your rants.

As far as the woman who you claim died as the result of "hate-filled" fans, I don't believe you. And IF that is true, why are you blaming ALL fans for what YOU claim happened. Did ALL fans do this to this person that you say this happened to? Are you blaming Michael for what YOU say happened? If so, then there seems to be more to your "arm chair" babble than what meets the eye. You need to look in the mirror and check yourself out before you put the BLAME on OTHERS. As I stated in a previous post, the problem is not with Michael or his fans, it is with YOU. If you are allowing Michael to affect you in the way that your posts indicate, then I would suggest that you seek professional help. I can guarantee you that I love Michael; HOwEVER, I would never allow him to take over my mind as he has obviously done yours. Again, seek help for your obsession and stop blaming others for YOUR problem.

[Edited 8/15/12 14:24pm]

musicology54 said:

I have a feeling that another 10 paragraph essay is coming.

LOL. No doubt.

mjscarousal said:

I cant help but crack up at Scorpio's posts... I really dont know how that man comes up with all these delusions in his head but it is entertaining to watch how far he goes with it

Not to mention he is not the family, never meant them to make all these accusations as FACT.

This fool really believes the Autospy is fake

but how much you willing to bet if Michaels autospy has said the exact opposite... his long ass rants would consist of mostly what the autospy stated?

[Edited 8/14/12 13:40pm]

Yes, Scorp's post are very delusional and he has the nerve to act as if MJ fans are delusional. Btw, are Azz and Scrop the same person? Both of their posts reek of the same psycho, arm-chair, "know-it-all" babble.

Free2BMe said:

Scorp said:

the black comunity and world community at large lost a hero

that unity was destroyed a quarter century ago

because the greatest entertainer on the planet morphed into becoming the "king of pop" which stunted the impact of the amazing message Michael presented in his music

the message was always consistent, I love the message to this day and will always love it, it was the manner in which Michael presented that message after reaching the pinnacle which became the detriment

for those who are now viewed as "haters" (which isn't true in the greatest context), nobody ever said he didn't deserve his success or that Michael's success was a byproduct of hype, that's what makes the situation more tragic

the truth of the manner is Jermaine and La Reid/Babyface was crying out to the man and plea w/him to stop trying to become somebody he wasnt...it was a cry out, not condemnation

because nobody else was in a position or given the platform to speak out..the establishment wouldn't allow it....

from 1987-1991, nothing was ever said about Michael's transformation because nobody was allowed to, especially the black community

what Jermaine said was already said among the people

and what was said in that record had already been said 4 years earlier when this tragedy began, it was being said in the neighborhoods, among families, on radio, on the playground and at the barbershops....the lyrics to that song were already being recited in the community but his current fanbase at that time and now was never made aware of it

what was said in that record, I had already heard in actual life beforehand.....

so if Jermaine is going to be attacked, then there's millions of people who need to be attacked too

[Edited 8/13/12 19:08pm]

[Edited 8/13/12 19:14pm]

[Edited 8/13/12 19:18pm]

The problem is that a lot in the black community REFUSED to believe Michael when he told Oprah that he had a "skin condition"(vitiligo) that turned him white. I remember the next day on the radio and in other places around my community, there were people who dismissed what he said. Although, all you had to do was to see that NO AMOUNT OF BLEACH COULD TURN YOU AS WHITE AS MICHAEL TURNED. Even after Michael died and the autopsy showed that he did have vitiligo, you have people who don't WANT to believe it.

As far as talking about the black community lost a a "hero", that is not Michael's fault, that is OUR fault. SOME (I say some because I am not in that "some") of us were so caught up in Michael's appearance and the "whiteness" of his skin, that we forgot to look at the MAN-his heart, his soul, his actions, his work,etc. Michael NEVER turned his back on the black community. The black community turned its back on Michael. NO ONE ELSE IN HISTORY did the things that Michael did. Michael was the FIRST artist to insist that his videos be premeried on BET simulataneously with MTV. Michael refused to allow MTV the exclusive rigths to his videos unless BET was allowed that same right. Michael ALWAYS did interviews with BLACK publications FIRST before he did with any other magazines. IF you saw Michael's photo on other magazines, Michael didn't do an interview with those magazines. Michael REFUSED to do an interview with Rolling Stone because of what the editor had said about black artists. Rolling Stone later BEGGED MIchael to do an interview with them and even offered Michael two CONSECUTIVE covers if he would only do an interview. Michael refused. This is one of the main reasons that Rolling Stone started their "negativity" toward him. Michael never compromised his music, his beliefs, his morals, his career for anyone. There is not a single other artist ANYWHERE who would do what Michael did. ALL of these artists, now and then, went to every magazine and TV shows to promote their latest release. Michael didn't do that.

Michael went to BLACK AWARD shows when other major BLACK artists wouldn't even show up.

Michael always made sure that he was surrounded by black people in his work environment. In every single video , Michael used BLACK WOMEN. Never did he use a white woman, other than his WIFE, Lisa Marie. Michael bought Little Richard's entire catalogue and GAVE IT BACK TO HIM FREE!! Therefore, all of this weak-ass shit talking about the black community lost a hero, and that Michael turned his back on the black comminity,ect. I say FUCKING BULLSHIT! The black community turned their backs on Michael. After Michael died, that same community claimed him again. WTF, why did it take his dying to realize that Michael NEVER LEFT THE BLACK COMMUNITY. SOME of us were just to damn busy worrying about his LOOKS, instead of seeing what he was ReALLY about and that includes his MFing family.

[Edited 8/14/12 8:53am]

Thank you for pointing out some important things, people are so hypocritical sometimes. It's interesting how Prince (it's a Prince forum and I'm not trying to bash him) can get away with ONLY using white women the first years of his career and almost no black women in his videos, dating ONLY white and latino women, saying he was half white in Purple Rain (I know it's a movie but people still to this day think he's half italian) straghtning his hair to the point to where it now looks ridiculous because it's destroying his scalp and still be considered black but MJ got a disease called vitiligo and he wants to be white? I'm not saying Prince wants to be white either, but how is it that MJ is a race traitor (to some it seems) and Prince isnt? Can someone please explain this to me? - I really dont care if I get hate for writing this.

[Edited 8/15/12 15:04pm]

musicology54 said:

^ Oh lawd you've done it now. The prince fans are going to come in here and call us crazy and crack tasteless mj jokes... again.

Sorry. I didnt want to go that way, but I'm just interested knowing where that logic comes from. If that's the case, I'm sad they don't have any respect for the dead.

GoldDolphin said:

Free2BMe said:

The problem is that a lot in the black community REFUSED to believe Michael when he told Oprah that he had a "skin condition"(vitiligo) that turned him white. I remember the next day on the radio and in other places around my community, there were people who dismissed what he said. Although, all you had to do was to see that NO AMOUNT OF BLEACH COULD TURN YOU AS WHITE AS MICHAEL TURNED. Even after Michael died and the autopsy showed that he did have vitiligo, you have people who don't WANT to believe it.

As far as talking about the black community lost a a "hero", that is not Michael's fault, that is OUR fault. SOME (I say some because I am not in that "some") of us were so caught up in Michael's appearance and the "whiteness" of his skin, that we forgot to look at the MAN-his heart, his soul, his actions, his work,etc. Michael NEVER turned his back on the black community. The black community turned its back on Michael. NO ONE ELSE IN HISTORY did the things that Michael did. Michael was the FIRST artist to insist that his videos be premeried on BET simulataneously with MTV. Michael refused to allow MTV the exclusive rigths to his videos unless BET was allowed that same right. Michael ALWAYS did interviews with BLACK publications FIRST before he did with any other magazines. IF you saw Michael's photo on other magazines, Michael didn't do an interview with those magazines. Michael REFUSED to do an interview with Rolling Stone because of what the editor had said about black artists. Rolling Stone later BEGGED MIchael to do an interview with them and even offered Michael two CONSECUTIVE covers if he would only do an interview. Michael refused. This is one of the main reasons that Rolling Stone started their "negativity" toward him. Michael never compromised his music, his beliefs, his morals, his career for anyone. There is not a single other artist ANYWHERE who would do what Michael did. ALL of these artists, now and then, went to every magazine and TV shows to promote their latest release. Michael didn't do that.

Michael went to BLACK AWARD shows when other major BLACK artists wouldn't even show up.

Michael always made sure that he was surrounded by black people in his work environment. In every single video , Michael used BLACK WOMEN. Never did he use a white woman, other than his WIFE, Lisa Marie. Michael bought Little Richard's entire catalogue and GAVE IT BACK TO HIM FREE!! Therefore, all of this weak-ass shit talking about the black community lost a hero, and that Michael turned his back on the black comminity,ect. I say FUCKING BULLSHIT! The black community turned their backs on Michael. After Michael died, that same community claimed him again. WTF, why did it take his dying to realize that Michael NEVER LEFT THE BLACK COMMUNITY. SOME of us were just to damn busy worrying about his LOOKS, instead of seeing what he was ReALLY about and that includes his MFing family.

[Edited 8/14/12 8:53am]

Thank you for pointing out some important things, people are so hypocritical sometimes. It's interesting how Prince (it's a Prince forum and I'm not trying to bash him) can get away with ONLY using white women the first years of his career and almost no black women in his videos, dating ONLY white and latino women, saying he was half white in Purple Rain (I know it's a movie but people still to this day think he's half italian) straghtning his hair to the point to where it now looks ridiculous because it's destroying his scalp and still be considered black but MJ got a disease called vitiligo and he wants to be white? I'm not saying Prince wants to be white either, but how is it that MJ is a race traitor (to some it seems) and Prince isnt? Can someone please explain this to me? - I really dont care if I get hate for writing this.

[Edited 8/15/12 15:04pm]

How did you know that this was his choice? I think you might be grasping at straws. The Purple Rain example isn't a valid one. Straitening hair - again, grasping for straws.

Besides, the same thing could be said for Michael. He straightened his hair and used wigs. He used whitening creams, as was found at his home (I remember reading this somewhere). MJ chose fair skined children.

I'm not saying that MJ despised being black, but I don't think Prince needed to be brought up to validate your argument. It will just cause more arguing.

...

[Edited 8/15/12 15:22pm]

Michael did not want to be Caucasian. That aspect of this argument is not true, notwithstanding his private interests in white businessmen, women, and children. However, he did in fact hate the way his face developed, no matter how much these [humorously] arrogant, yet extremely unknowing [new] adulators here try to deny or overlook that. And via an uneducated desire to change his facial appearance with hazardous reconstructive surgery, he was deliberately misguided, medically mistreated (with actual grounds for malpractice he was never cognizant of pursuing), and ultimately destroyed by two maleficent physicians who should be damaged in the face themselves with a baseball bat. Therefore, while Michael certainly was the naive initiator of his drastic physical changes, he was not the actual cause of the pale shell he eventually transformed into and ultimately regretted.

GoldDolphin said:

Free2BMe said:

The problem is that a lot in the black community REFUSED to believe Michael when he told Oprah that he had a "skin condition"(vitiligo) that turned him white. I remember the next day on the radio and in other places around my community, there were people who dismissed what he said. Although, all you had to do was to see that NO AMOUNT OF BLEACH COULD TURN YOU AS WHITE AS MICHAEL TURNED. Even after Michael died and the autopsy showed that he did have vitiligo, you have people who don't WANT to believe it.

As far as talking about the black community lost a a "hero", that is not Michael's fault, that is OUR fault. SOME (I say some because I am not in that "some") of us were so caught up in Michael's appearance and the "whiteness" of his skin, that we forgot to look at the MAN-his heart, his soul, his actions, his work,etc. Michael NEVER turned his back on the black community. The black community turned its back on Michael. NO ONE ELSE IN HISTORY did the things that Michael did. Michael was the FIRST artist to insist that his videos be premeried on BET simulataneously with MTV. Michael refused to allow MTV the exclusive rigths to his videos unless BET was allowed that same right. Michael ALWAYS did interviews with BLACK publications FIRST before he did with any other magazines. IF you saw Michael's photo on other magazines, Michael didn't do an interview with those magazines. Michael REFUSED to do an interview with Rolling Stone because of what the editor had said about black artists. Rolling Stone later BEGGED MIchael to do an interview with them and even offered Michael two CONSECUTIVE covers if he would only do an interview. Michael refused. This is one of the main reasons that Rolling Stone started their "negativity" toward him. Michael never compromised his music, his beliefs, his morals, his career for anyone. There is not a single other artist ANYWHERE who would do what Michael did. ALL of these artists, now and then, went to every magazine and TV shows to promote their latest release. Michael didn't do that.

Michael went to BLACK AWARD shows when other major BLACK artists wouldn't even show up.

Michael always made sure that he was surrounded by black people in his work environment. In every single video , Michael used BLACK WOMEN. Never did he use a white woman, other than his WIFE, Lisa Marie. Michael bought Little Richard's entire catalogue and GAVE IT BACK TO HIM FREE!! Therefore, all of this weak-ass shit talking about the black community lost a hero, and that Michael turned his back on the black comminity,ect. I say FUCKING BULLSHIT! The black community turned their backs on Michael. After Michael died, that same community claimed him again. WTF, why did it take his dying to realize that Michael NEVER LEFT THE BLACK COMMUNITY. SOME of us were just to damn busy worrying about his LOOKS, instead of seeing what he was ReALLY about and that includes his MFing family.

[Edited 8/14/12 8:53am]

Thank you for pointing out some important things, people are so hypocritical sometimes. It's interesting how Prince (it's a Prince forum and I'm not trying to bash him) can get away with ONLY using white women the first years of his career and almost no black women in his videos, dating ONLY white and latino women, straghtning his hair to the point to where it now looks ridiculous because it's destroying his scalp and still be considered black but MJ got a disease called vitiligo and he wants to be white? I'm not saying Prince wants to be white either, but how is it that MJ is a race traitor (to some it seems) and Prince isnt? Can someone please explain this to me? - I really dont care if I get hate for writing this.

I'm actually glad you pointed this out....it's not people that are hypocritical, it's the standard of beauty indoctrinated in people's minds, an ideal that has been pushed and prodded, to where people have been conditioned by it that distorts things

relationships based on genuine love, when something is real, there's no flack that's going to be directed towards that circumstance....

what I'm saying is....ALL the premier black artists of the 1980s, have been effected by the destructive mechanism of racism, particularly racial indifference which was the very principle the pop ascension movement was based on..........

because everything is geared towards eventually gaining commercial appeal while moving beyond your natural point of reference.......

what I"m saying is, race affected Prince too, because in 1989, there was an issue of EBONY magazine that focused on black music stars who were being drawn away from their original point of origin where they would deny their blackness and identify with other cultures to relate to where Prince, who I still admire for his contribution to music and technically made a brilliant choice to have all of his music protected from youtube usage, once said that he was strictly Italian and that he carried no black heritage.....he said this only five years after releasing his landmark album and movie Purple Rain

when in fact his father was black and his mother was primarily black w/native american lineage

and many black performers during this period during those years denied their blackness because they were encouraged to do as they stood on the precipice of reaching "crossover" stature

and destroyed Whitney Houston too, as she debuted on the scene in 1985, w/her first album selling 20 million copies worldwide

guess what, after that amazing introduction she was told by her record execs that she looked too "ethnic" and they modified her look, she underwent a marginal nose job too, and that restriction drove her to exhibit behavior as time evolved that should not have normally did if she wasn't encouraged to change her look

can u imagine how bold that is to tell somebody they look too ethnic

there's a great number of black performers who were encouraged to do the exact same thing and it caused major problems along the way

the reason why I pointed out Mike featured the faces of two white women in his video Billie Jean was in response to the one person who said he never did that, to prove that I've witnessed his entire career from beginning to end and had the opportunity to witness all of it.....

it aint really about who's in your video, it's about how one feels about their own self image that's being projected across that screen for millions to witness......

the beauty standards has destroyed the lives of many cultural ethnicities

right now asian women who aspire to be american models are literally having their eyeshape altered to appear more european

http://www.plasticsurgery...urgery/269

and undergoing leg extension surgery

THIS is what people of color around the globe are being encouraged to do in order to be accepted by an establishment that still won't respect them in the end......

people from the caribbean and africa are having their skin lightened by using hazardous chemicals that eventually restrict their blood system

that's those who refrain for acknowledging this situationf or what it is can tell me anything different because this same beauty standard is what destroyed Michael Jackson and so many other black performers on lesser scales

and it's destroying white people too, because what can destroy the intended target will eventually capture others....the standard is being redefined every moment, causing people to undergo greater measures of extreme to acheive it

that's why I say the entertainment value no longer means anything to me when there's no legit reason for me to seek it.....

Racism is the worst decease in this country and it operates from many platforms....

[Edited 8/15/12 16:51pm]