I heard a jackie wilson song , and i cant remember the titel but it kinda had the brrr dap dap brrrrdadiedap thing michael used in remember the time . Does anyone know wich song im talking about ?

"the brrr dap dap brrrrdadiedap thing"

LittleBLUECorvette said:

"the brrr dap dap brrrrdadiedap thing"

I'm guessing he meant that stacatto thing. But I wouldn't necessarily think it was simply a Jackie Wilson thing. Nappy Brown, Clyde McPhatter and the like also used it if I recall...

But since Jackie was obviously one of MJ's idols, I can see him using it in Jackie's way.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Michael gave credit to Jackie during one of his 84 grammy speeches. I think Jackie was copied by James and from their to everyone else. Jackie started a lot of things. Believe it or not, he loved and idolized Elvis and Elvis loved him too. Jackie's style was pretty laid back though where Michael and James were very dynamic. Vocally Jackie was gifted with what a lot of people called an "operatic" voice and could supposedly put just about anyone to shame with his voice. Sad how his career went really, he could have done so much better with better material. To my knowledge he did not write his own songs or had much input into which songs he recorded. Michael did use a phrase from Jackie's "stop doggin me around" in Leave me Alone "just stop doggin' me around".

LittleBLUECorvette said:

"the brrr dap dap brrrrdadiedap thing"

petes2 said:

Michael gave credit to Jackie during one of his 84 grammy speeches. I think Jackie was copied by James and from their to everyone else. Jackie started a lot of things. Believe it or not, he loved and idolized Elvis and Elvis loved him too. Jackie's style was pretty laid back though where Michael and James were very dynamic. Vocally Jackie was gifted with what a lot of people called an "operatic" voice and could supposedly put just about anyone to shame with his voice. Sad how his career went really, he could have done so much better with better material. To my knowledge he did not write his own songs or had much input into which songs he recorded. Michael did use a phrase from Jackie's "stop doggin me around" in Leave me Alone "just stop doggin' me around".

Yeah Jackie didn't write none of his hits with the glaring exception of "Baby Workout". I don't think he wrote "Doggin' Me Around" but I gotta check...

petes2 said:

Michael gave credit to Jackie during one of his 84 grammy speeches. I think Jackie was copied by James and from their to everyone else. Jackie started a lot of things. Believe it or not, he loved and idolized Elvis and Elvis loved him too. Jackie's style was pretty laid back though where Michael and James were very dynamic. Vocally Jackie was gifted with what a lot of people called an "operatic" voice and could supposedly put just about anyone to shame with his voice. Sad how his career went really, he could have done so much better with better material. To my knowledge he did not write his own songs or had much input into which songs he recorded. Michael did use a phrase from Jackie's "stop doggin me around" in Leave me Alone "just stop doggin' me around".

Definitely! He had a great voice, he was charasmatic and a dynamic live performer but much of his material was fairly mediocre. He was probably too smooth for Stax but he would have been perfect for Motown.

Jackie has often been seen as "the founder of Detroit soul" but that was inaccurate. Little Willie John was. But he pulled his weight following the wave of mainstream rock and roll's first heyday in the mid-1950s. His career could've been better had he not take everything at face value as he was with Brunswick.

Timmy84 said:

Jackie has often been seen as "the founder of Detroit soul" but that was inaccurate. Little Willie John was. But he pulled his weight following the wave of mainstream rock and roll's first heyday in the mid-1950s. His career could've been better had he not take everything at face value as he was with Brunswick.

I don't know much about Jackie but I suspect he would have greatly benefited from better management. Based on talent he should have been as big a star as James Brown was in the sixties, probably bigger. Jackie was better looking, a better dancer and a more versatile singer than James but he really had trouble consistently recording great material. An awful lot of his music has aged very poorly.

rialb said:

Timmy84 said:

Jackie has often been seen as "the founder of Detroit soul" but that was inaccurate. Little Willie John was. But he pulled his weight following the wave of mainstream rock and roll's first heyday in the mid-1950s. His career could've been better had he not take everything at face value as he was with Brunswick.

I don't know much about Jackie but I suspect he would have greatly benefited from better management. Based on talent he should have been as big a star as James Brown was in the sixties, probably bigger. Jackie was better looking, a better dancer and a more versatile singer than James but he really had trouble consistently recording great material. An awful lot of his music has aged very poorly.

Jackie didn't share James' hardcore shrewdness and cunning ability to get what he wanted. Jackie was more reliant on others to satisfy him enough to make money but didn't have the gall to reach for better if not bigger things. His attempts at crossing over were mostly failures.

Timmy84 said:

Jackie has often been seen as "the founder of Detroit soul" but that was inaccurate. Little Willie John was. But he pulled his weight following the wave of mainstream rock and roll's first heyday in the mid-1950s. His career could've been better had he not take everything at face value as he was with Brunswick.

Jackie precedes John by a couple of years from his time with Billy Ward's Dominoes.

rialb said:

Timmy84 said:

Jackie has often been seen as "the founder of Detroit soul" but that was inaccurate. Little Willie John was. But he pulled his weight following the wave of mainstream rock and roll's first heyday in the mid-1950s. His career could've been better had he not take everything at face value as he was with Brunswick.

I don't know much about Jackie but I suspect he would have greatly benefited from better management. Based on talent he should have been as big a star as James Brown was in the sixties, probably bigger. Jackie was better looking, a better dancer and a more versatile singer than James but he really had trouble consistently recording great material. An awful lot of his music has aged very poorly.

Jackie was muchy bigger than JB until the mid-60s. Only Ray Charles and Sam Cooke were bigger.

JB didn't perform on TV until 1965 (unless you counr the Theater release of TAMI in late 64?.)

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Jackie has often been seen as "the founder of Detroit soul" but that was inaccurate. Little Willie John was. But he pulled his weight following the wave of mainstream rock and roll's first heyday in the mid-1950s. His career could've been better had he not take everything at face value as he was with Brunswick.

Jackie precedes John by a couple of years from his time with Billy Ward's Dominoes.

I know that but I don't think he was as established then. He was just considered another "faceless" member of a "faceless" group. He was a Clyde McPhatter knockoff initially though Jackie did have his own style though it could be argued the two Roys - Brown and Hamilton - also influenced his vocal style as well as Clyde's.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

rialb said:

I don't know much about Jackie but I suspect he would have greatly benefited from better management. Based on talent he should have been as big a star as James Brown was in the sixties, probably bigger. Jackie was better looking, a better dancer and a more versatile singer than James but he really had trouble consistently recording great material. An awful lot of his music has aged very poorly.

Jackie was muchy bigger than JB until the mid-60s. Only Ray Charles and Sam Cooke were bigger.

JB didn't perform on TV until 1965 (unless you counr the Theater release of TAMI in late 64?.)

Now THAT is true. Jackie was THE MAN between 1958 and 1963 besides Ray and Sam. Some revisionists say James debuted in 1960 on "American Bandstand" but I don't know how true that is. No one really knew who James was outside R&B circles until the release of the Apollo album, I don't think.

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Jackie was muchy bigger than JB until the mid-60s. Only Ray Charles and Sam Cooke were bigger.

JB didn't perform on TV until 1965 (unless you counr the Theater release of TAMI in late 64?.)

Now THAT is true. Jackie was THE MAN between 1958 and 1963 besides Ray and Sam. Some revisionists say James debuted in 1960 on "American Bandstand" but I don't know how true that is. No one really knew who James was outside R&B circles until the release of the Apollo album, I don't think.

That is somewhat true, the did play his song "Try Me" in a segment but he didn't appear. He did make an appearance on the show in 1962, but only to except the crown as "R&B's number 1 performer of 1962" as it said on his Apollo album.

His first show's were in 1965, not sure it it was ANother DIck Clark show "Where The Action Is" Shindig or Hollywodd A-Go-Go.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Now THAT is true. Jackie was THE MAN between 1958 and 1963 besides Ray and Sam. Some revisionists say James debuted in 1960 on "American Bandstand" but I don't know how true that is. No one really knew who James was outside R&B circles until the release of the Apollo album, I don't think.

That is somewhat true, the did play his song "Try Me" in a segment but he didn't appear. He did make an appearance on the show in 1962, but only to except the crown as "R&B's number 1 performer of 1962" as it said on his Apollo album.

His first show's were in 1965, not sure it it was ANother DIck Clark show "Where The Action Is" Shindig or Hollywodd A-Go-Go.

Ah I see. Thanks. Why people think he first performed in '60, I don't know... I thought that was inaccurate as well. Much like the account of Ike & Tina being on AB in '60. I know they didn't appear on TV until 1964 or 1965 themselves.

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

That is somewhat true, the did play his song "Try Me" in a segment but he didn't appear. He did make an appearance on the show in 1962, but only to except the crown as "R&B's number 1 performer of 1962" as it said on his Apollo album.

His first show's were in 1965, not sure it it was ANother DIck Clark show "Where The Action Is" Shindig or Hollywodd A-Go-Go.

Ah I see. Thanks. Why people think he first performed in '60, I don't know... I thought that was inaccurate as well. Much like the account of Ike & Tina being on AB in '60. I know they didn't appear on TV until 1964 or 1965 themselves.

It's clear why they never appeared on TV during that time, they were too raw for TV. Hell, Joe Tex made his performance debut before JB in early 1965, dispite never making a pop top 100 before Hold What You've Got. JB had three pop 25 hits at that time.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Ah I see. Thanks. Why people think he first performed in '60, I don't know... I thought that was inaccurate as well. Much like the account of Ike & Tina being on AB in '60. I know they didn't appear on TV until 1964 or 1965 themselves.

It's clear why they never appeared on TV during that time, they were too raw for TV. Hell, Joe Tex made his performance debut before JB in early 1965, dispite never making a pop top 100 before Hold What You've Got. JB had three pop 25 hits at that time.

LOL that is true...

here's something i wonder, has anyone ever seen wilson do splits? that's the one thing james added, i've never seen jackie do the splits. I wonder why he had a stroke so young, being so athletci and all. I'm sure drugs had a lot to do with it.

Everybody knows MJ was the ultimate swagger jacker.

All he did was add a couple leg kicks and crotch grabs to the mix.

michael was a creative choreographer, the crotch grabs i always saw as a variation on how dancers like sammydavis and many others put their hands on their waistlines, michael sexualized it.

The spin........only Jackie did it in reverse.

petes2 said:

here's something i wonder, has anyone ever seen wilson do splits? that's the one thing james added, i've never seen jackie do the splits. I wonder why he had a stroke so young, being so athletci and all. I'm sure drugs had a lot to do with it.

There's footage of Jackie doing splits on some TV shows during his heyday. Unfortunately they didn't tape his live performances at clubs so most of the people who saw him dancing could only see it in person. Allegedly both Jackie and James stole from Joe Tex, who was dancing, I argue, more acrobatically (sp?) than either James or Jackie though James tried to match him any chance he got.

Timmy84 said:

petes2 said:

here's something i wonder, has anyone ever seen wilson do splits? that's the one thing james added, i've never seen jackie do the splits. I wonder why he had a stroke so young, being so athletci and all. I'm sure drugs had a lot to do with it.

There's footage of Jackie doing splits on some TV shows during his heyday. Unfortunately they didn't tape his live performances at clubs so most of the people who saw him dancing could only see it in person. Allegedly both Jackie and James stole from Joe Tex, who was dancing, I argue, more acrobatically (sp?) than either James or Jackie though James tried to match him any chance he got.

ok, i'll try to find some, seen a lot but never seen him do the splits

what most of you don't know is that one of his main influences was Al Jolson, to me he looks like he took jolsons moves and made them classier. a lot of elvis can be seen in his performances also.

^ I knew Jackie took from Al Jolson. Of Elvis, he probably adapted his hip swivels. Those two (Jackie & Elvis) admired each other a lot.

splits...

[Edited 7/29/12 22:56pm]

purplethunder3121 said:

splits...

[Edited 7/29/12 22:56pm]

those aren't splits but thanks