i still resent patti labelle of accusing jackie of rape, in my opinion, to sell a book. i suppose it's possible but from what i know, jackie didn't show signs of doing those kinds of things with other women.

petes2 said:

i still resent patti labelle of accusing jackie of rape, in my opinion, to sell a book. i suppose it's possible but from what i know, jackie didn't show signs of doing those kinds of things with other women.

Patti's not the only one whose accused Jackie of rape, Alexyss K. Tylor, Ms. Vagina Power, claimed in one of her videos that Jackie raped her mom and she's his daughter. The vids on Youtube somewhere, that's where I saw it.

petes2 said:

here's something i wonder, has anyone ever seen wilson do splits? that's the one thing james added, i've never seen jackie do the splits. I wonder why he had a stroke so young, being so athletci and all. I'm sure drugs had a lot to do with it.

I never seen Jackie do the splits but from the moves I have seen him do (drop down to his knees and raise himself up), he can do them rather easily.

Timmy84 said:

petes2 said:

here's something i wonder, has anyone ever seen wilson do splits? that's the one thing james added, i've never seen jackie do the splits. I wonder why he had a stroke so young, being so athletci and all. I'm sure drugs had a lot to do with it.

There's footage of Jackie doing splits on some TV shows during his heyday. Unfortunately they didn't tape his live performances at clubs so most of the people who saw him dancing could only see it in person. Allegedly both Jackie and James stole from Joe Tex, who was dancing, I argue, more acrobatically (sp?) than either James or Jackie though James tried to match him any chance he got.

I never heard of Jackie taking from Tex. Jackie debuted a few years before Tex. I'm not sure of what he was doin in his Domino days.

And I don't know if Joe was more acrobatic? Of course we can only judge him from his footage of 65 onward. Tex does the drop down to his knees but his rise is no were near Jackie's rise.

I've heard stories of Jackie doin' back-flips and somersaults into splits.

I would love to see Jackie's splits!!

The one guy who made be badder than all of them is Tommy Hunt.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

rialb said:

I don't know much about Jackie but I suspect he would have greatly benefited from better management. Based on talent he should have been as big a star as James Brown was in the sixties, probably bigger. Jackie was better looking, a better dancer and a more versatile singer than James but he really had trouble consistently recording great material. An awful lot of his music has aged very poorly.

Jackie was muchy bigger than JB until the mid-60s. Only Ray Charles and Sam Cooke were bigger.

JB didn't perform on TV until 1965 (unless you counr the Theater release of TAMI in late 64?.)

Sure but if you look at the sixties as a whole James was much more dominant. By the mid sixties Jackie was largely irrelevant. He did have a couple of big hits in the latter part of the decade but James was cranking out a classic new single every other month. Even at his peak in the late fifties/early sixties Jackie never had a hot streak like James had from the mid sixties-early seventies.

Today Jackie is not remembered as one of the all time greats even though he had the talent to be right up there with Ray Charles, Sam Cooke and James Brown. I guess the difference was that they wrote their own material (to varying degrees) and Jackie mostly did not but I still believe he could have found much better songs to record. Maybe he would have been better off focusing on the black/r & b audience rather than chasing the white/pop audience? In the short term he may not have been as big a star but I think in the long term he would have made better music and his legacy would be greater than it is.

[Edited 7/30/12 2:32am]

True, James definitely had the acrobatics down. I guess since there's more footage of James doing it than anyone else, to say who had more acrobatics wouldn't make sense.

Jackie did start to fall off around '63 though. James rose up in the ranks as Jackie's never really cranked up.

petes2 said:

i still resent patti labelle of accusing jackie of rape, in my opinion, to sell a book. i suppose it's possible but from what i know, jackie didn't show signs of doing those kinds of things with other women.

I don't know, I wouldn't call Patti an outright liar (yet). Maybe Jackie did sexually assault her, we know that when he was drunk or high, he would do ANYTHING. But since Jackie couldn't give his side of the story about the alleged incident with Patti, it's more he said, she said. As Abdul said, one of his alleged daughters (and she does look like him oddly enough ) said she was the result of a rape that his father allegedly committed on her mother.

rialb said:

Today Jackie is not remembered as one of the all time greats even though he had the talent to be right up there with Ray Charles, Sam Cooke and James Brown. I guess the difference was that they wrote their own material (to varying degrees) and Jackie mostly did not

I think this is why Johnnie Taylor is pretty much ignored. JT rarely wrote or produced his songs. Plus he never put much stock into crossing over to pop, and that's where an act gets the most media attention. Rock magazines put more emphasis on self writing, when that has always been a small percentage of records released.

motownlover said:

I heard a jackie wilson song , and i cant remember the titel but it kinda had the brrr dap dap brrrrdadiedap thing michael used in remember the time . Does anyone know wich song im talking about ?

He used that on Reet Petite. Not sure about any other songs.

Are you sure it was Jackie Wilson? Because Billy Stewart did that tongue rolling thing, too.

petes2 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

splits...

[Edited 7/29/12 22:56pm]

those aren't splits but thanks

It's as close as I could find.

Genesia said:

Are you sure it was Jackie Wilson? Because Billy Stewart did that tongue rolling thing, too.

Yeah Billy Stewart used to do that a lot ("Summertime" for example). I think Ron Isley did it for "Twist & Shout" and Florence Ballard of the Supremes did it for their song "Let Me Go the Right Way". I don't recall Jackie doing it that much.

Timmy84 said:

Genesia said:

Are you sure it was Jackie Wilson? Because Billy Stewart did that tongue rolling thing, too.

Yeah Billy Stewart used to do that a lot ("Summertime" for example). I think Ron Isley did it for "Twist & Shout" and Florence Ballard of the Supremes did it for their song "Let Me Go the Right Way". I don't recall Jackie doing it that much.

I can't even listen to that recording. I am a huge Gershwin fan - and what Stewart did to that song was criminal, IMO.

Genesia said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah Billy Stewart used to do that a lot ("Summertime" for example). I think Ron Isley did it for "Twist & Shout" and Florence Ballard of the Supremes did it for their song "Let Me Go the Right Way". I don't recall Jackie doing it that much.

I can't even listen to that recording. I am a huge Gershwin fan - and what Stewart did to that song was criminal, IMO.

I know, it's not for everybody.

Jackie wrote some of his earlier hits, post his Gordy work. (You Were Made For) All My Love, You Better Know It, Baby Workout and No Pity. And out of his early material besides the Gordy tunes, those were the songs I liked by him. Basically, the material he was gettin' wasn't for him, it was something they were tryin to make him.

Now, I did like his later work from 66 on, he went with a different sound, more soulful or Northern Soul what they call it. I like all that stuff that Brunswick was coming out with in the late 60s like him Gene Chandler and the Chi-Lites.

But once he started focusing mainly on the black crowd, he didn't change with the times. He was a few years behind, he never got into the funk really. Maybe that wasn't his style.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Jackie wrote some of his earlier hits, post his Gordy work. (You Were Made For) All My Love, You Better Know It, Baby Workout and No Pity. And out of his early material besides the Gordy tunes, those were the songs I liked by him. Basically, the material he was gettin' wasn't for him, it was something they were tryin to make him.

Now, I did like his later work from 66 on, he went with a different sound, more soulful or Northern Soul what they call it. I like all that stuff that Brunswick was coming out with in the late 60s like him Gene Chandler and the Chi-Lites.

But once he started focusing mainly on the black crowd, he didn't change with the times. He was a few years behind, he never got into the funk really. Maybe that wasn't his style.

I forgot about You Better Know It, that was my cut...

I think the thing with Jackie was that whatever made him hip when he was in his heyday he was gonna stick with it no matter what changes were going on. That's why when most folks with the exception of him, James Brown and Johnny Mathis kept using the pompadour (James' "natural" period didn't last long ) and settling on that old school mentality, they start looking phased out of "society" so to speak. While James and Johnny adapted, Jackie never quite got out of it.

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Jackie wrote some of his earlier hits, post his Gordy work. (You Were Made For) All My Love, You Better Know It, Baby Workout and No Pity. And out of his early material besides the Gordy tunes, those were the songs I liked by him. Basically, the material he was gettin' wasn't for him, it was something they were tryin to make him.

Now, I did like his later work from 66 on, he went with a different sound, more soulful or Northern Soul what they call it. I like all that stuff that Brunswick was coming out with in the late 60s like him Gene Chandler and the Chi-Lites.

But once he started focusing mainly on the black crowd, he didn't change with the times. He was a few years behind, he never got into the funk really. Maybe that wasn't his style.

I forgot about You Better Know It, that was my cut...

I think the thing with Jackie was that whatever made him hip when he was in his heyday he was gonna stick with it no matter what changes were going on. That's why when most folks with the exception of him, James Brown and Johnny Mathis kept using the pompadour (James' "natural" period didn't last long ) and settling on that old school mentality, they start looking phased out of "society" so to speak. While James and Johnny adapted, Jackie never quite got out of it.

Lookin at it if I was around back then, Jackie seemed like "The One" back in the 50s and early 60s. HE might have been the coolest cat back then his swagger was always on. But by the late 60s and early 70s he started to seem like you're stating out of place. He never adapted to the times. He just looked corny.

Kind of like Sly Stone, homie looked corney as hell in the 80s and now even. But late 60,s 70 sly swagger was on point.. He never changed. Bootys never changed either, but he will always be cool!!

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

I forgot about You Better Know It, that was my cut...

I think the thing with Jackie was that whatever made him hip when he was in his heyday he was gonna stick with it no matter what changes were going on. That's why when most folks with the exception of him, James Brown and Johnny Mathis kept using the pompadour (James' "natural" period didn't last long ) and settling on that old school mentality, they start looking phased out of "society" so to speak. While James and Johnny adapted, Jackie never quite got out of it.

Lookin at it if I was around back then, Jackie seemed like "The One" back in the 50s and early 60s. HE might have been the coolest cat back then his swagger was always on. But by the late 60s and early 70s he started to seem like you're stating out of place. He never adapted to the times. He just looked corny.

Kind of like Sly Stone, homie looked corney as hell in the 80s and now even. But late 60,s 70 sly swagger was on point.. He never changed. Bootys never changed either, but he will always be cool!!

Well see this is what separates some legends. Some can look out of place, you'll never get that with Bootsy, aka Casper, aka Bootzilla.

The pic on the top left corner shows that he can do a split quite easily.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

The pic on the top left corner shows that he can do a split quite easily.

I just know there are more pictures of him doing that but for some reason, I can't find them. Hopefully, more will be posted on this thread or on the rare pictures thread.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

The pic on the top left corner shows that he can do a split quite easily.

Good find. Wish someone could dig up some video of him doing some real splits.

Abdul said:

petes2 said:

i still resent patti labelle of accusing jackie of rape, in my opinion, to sell a book. i suppose it's possible but from what i know, jackie didn't show signs of doing those kinds of things with other women.

Patti's not the only one whose accused Jackie of rape, Alexyss K. Tylor, Ms. Vagina Power, claimed in one of her videos that Jackie raped her mom and she's his daughter. The vids on Youtube somewhere, that's where I saw it.

People say anything to sell a book so I wonder. And this other woman seems like an absolute loon. I love women but think they're all crazy so I don't know what to believe. Vagina power, what kind of shit is that? If Jackie had any family left they'd go after these people.

petes2 said:

Abdul said:

Patti's not the only one whose accused Jackie of rape, Alexyss K. Tylor, Ms. Vagina Power, claimed in one of her videos that Jackie raped her mom and she's his daughter. The vids on Youtube somewhere, that's where I saw it.

People say anything to sell a book so I wonder. And this other woman seems like an absolute loon. I love women but think they're all crazy so I don't know what to believe. Vagina power, what kind of shit is that? If Jackie had any family left they'd go after these people.

LOL!!!

petes2 said:

Abdul said:

Patti's not the only one whose accused Jackie of rape, Alexyss K. Tylor, Ms. Vagina Power, claimed in one of her videos that Jackie raped her mom and she's his daughter. The vids on Youtube somewhere, that's where I saw it.

People say anything to sell a book so I wonder. And this other woman seems like an absolute loon. I love women but think they're all crazy so I don't know what to believe. Vagina power, what kind of shit is that? If Jackie had any family left they'd go after these people.

That was ridiculous. But yeah who knows if the rape stories are true?

Timmy84 said:

petes2 said:

People say anything to sell a book so I wonder. And this other woman seems like an absolute loon. I love women but think they're all crazy so I don't know what to believe. Vagina power, what kind of shit is that? If Jackie had any family left they'd go after these people.

That was ridiculous. But yeah who knows if the rape stories are true?

WHat year did this happen. I know some time in the mid-to-late 60s right?

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

That was ridiculous. But yeah who knows if the rape stories are true?

WHat year did this happen. I know some time in the mid-to-late 60s right?

I don't know, patti got raped when she was 17 supposedly, the other woman, I don't know. I guess it'd be between 40 and 50 years ago. In contrast to Patti's tale Little Richard's old flame from the 50's, lee angel, said that Jackie was a great, fun loving guy who just loved women.

petes2 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

WHat year did this happen. I know some time in the mid-to-late 60s right?

I don't know, patti got raped when she was 17 supposedly, the other woman, I don't know. I guess it'd be between 40 and 50 years ago. In contrast to Patti's tale Little Richard's old flame from the 50's, lee angel, said that Jackie was a great, fun loving guy who just loved women.

So did the women who competed for his affection. One of the women shot him (probably by accident) because he was with one of her rivals. I didn't know Patti was that young when she accused Jackie of assaulting her.

Timmy84 said:

petes2 said:

I don't know, patti got raped when she was 17 supposedly, the other woman, I don't know. I guess it'd be between 40 and 50 years ago. In contrast to Patti's tale Little Richard's old flame from the 50's, lee angel, said that Jackie was a great, fun loving guy who just loved women.

So did the women who competed for his affection. One of the women shot him (probably by accident) because he was with one of her rivals. I didn't know Patti was that young when she accused Jackie of assaulting her.

maybe she wasn't, that's just what I vaguely remember her saying.

petes2 said:

Timmy84 said:

So did the women who competed for his affection. One of the women shot him (probably by accident) because he was with one of her rivals. I didn't know Patti was that young when she accused Jackie of assaulting her.

maybe she wasn't, that's just what I vaguely remember her saying.

She was probably a young adult.

either way it's a tragic waste of monumental talent, and worse than that, it was a hellish sounding life. I've read in the last couple days that the mob ran him and hung him out of a window to keep him in line. His children died, his son was shot or something. He became reclusive apparently. Maybe he was a rapist, I've always believed that people who are jerked around like that act it out on whoever is vulnerable around them. Hope it's not true, everyone has a crazy rumour, I recently heard for the second time a rumour that Ali met a 12 year old girl and she had his baby at 14, if that were true it would absolutely kill me, I just don't think it is.