NDRU said:

Timmy84 said:

It don't bug me. It was the times. Even Elvis would shake his head at all the attention. All that praise was actually a reason he didn't do much interviews or even perform on TV because they were building him up to be something he wasn't and I think deep down he really hated it... HATED IT. But he didn't wanna hurt nobody - the fact he didn't fire Col. Tom Parker when you think he had ample opportunity shows you what kind of person he really was. He trusted everybody and most of the people around him fucked him over. When you're being pushed into being something you're not, you stand there without knowing what to do. He was literally an Emperor with No Clothes On.

Yes, and unlike someone else we know, he was not a self-proclaimed king!

It was a title that others gave him. He was just a singer, and a pretty good one.

Like I said earlier, Elvis hated being called the King of Rock 'n' Roll. He wouldn't even let the announcers of his concerts introduce him as such. In the '50s, he wouldn't go onstage if they said it, only to say later: "Elvis has left the building" or simply introduce him as "Elvis!" But call him a "King" and he'll get PISSED. The few occasions they did say it, he would shout, "no no, Fats Domino is the king of rock and roll!" In fact, when he first performed Las Vegas, they actually said that to him: "you are the King" and Fats happened to be in the room and Elvis said, "no sir, that man right there, Mr. Fats Domino, he's the real king of rock and roll." (during some concerts when girls screamed "you're the King of everything baby!", he actually stopped the show and said "no ma'am, I'm no King, God is the King." and returned to his show).

He always knew the truth, he knew the real heroes of rock and roll were black because he learned from them. He took lessons from Ike Turner, Little Richard, Chuck Berry. He dug James Brown so much he wanted to use his band not knowing James' dictatorial ways towards his band. The man also idolized Roy Hamilton so damn much he basically asked him if he could sing songs in Roy's key and Roy agreed. In fact, the more I hear his voice, I hear Roy Hamilton more than I do Jackie Wilson but Jackie's there too because Elvis was influenced by him too (as "Return to Sender" easily showed). So why folks still believing what THE MEDIA tells them, I don't get it. Elvis was far from proclaiming himself to be something he wasn't and he wasn't at all what people said about him. Reading his back story I could see why he backed away so much because people are snakes. They all wonder "why did he turn out weird and reclusive?" It's simple really. That environment was too unhealthy and it caught up with him in the end.

With Elvis it does ultimately all come down to his voice, but his moves and musicallity were a huge part of his success. Many noted musicians have talked about Elvis' musicianship (whether it be on guitar or piano and talked about the interesting quality of his rthymic style and how it proples the music regardless of the genre. Unfortunately there aren't more samples of his instrumental ability and an argument can be made that the focus on his voice may have hindered and hidden his natural talent as a musician.

His "dancing" is a pretty interesting topic because before he became disciplined (probably by Karate and movie staging) there was a wild freeness to his movements that was amazing. A quick look at youtube for clips from the 50's shows a physical performer who found a perfect balance between choreographed and imprompto movement. Girls probably werent' throwing the undergarments and phone numbers on the stage because of his voice...

But it does always comeback to the voice. Hamilton is surely a massive influence but I think some of the quartet singers who influenced him are often overlooked of which Jake Hess is a major example. Ultimately, I think what stands out is that Elvis knew his vocal limits but never accepted them. He did not have the natural lows or highs of some of the singers he most admired but he would push his voice to achieve the notes that they created with ease. Maybe it is the effort of his attempts that gave his voice that undefineable "Elvis" quality?

I think Elvis was modest about his impact, but I think his modesty sometimes overshadows his drive and determination and ultimately his own influence.

It is important to remember that Elvis recorded his first commercial song in July 1954. Many of the people he is said to have been influenced by didn't hit the national conciousness until 1955. A very specific instance of this is Bo Didley who said he saw Elvis standing in the wings of the Apollo in New York watching his performance. This may be true, but it would have been in late 1955 or early 1956. Diddley often stated that Elvis stole his whole stage show from watching that performance....but Elvis had already been causing riots everywhere he toured starting in August of 1954.

I think it is more fair to say that Elvis, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Carl Perkins, and Bo Diddley were influenced by the same people. You can find quotes from all of them talking about how they listened to everything on the radio (country, blues, jazz, r and b etc) and just made the music they felt.

kalelvisj said:

His "dancing" is a pretty interesting topic because before he became disciplined (probably by Karate and movie staging) there was a wild freeness to his movements that was amazing. A quick look at youtube for clips from the 50's shows a physical performer who found a perfect balance between choreographed and imprompto movement. Girls probably werent' throwing the undergarments and phone numbers on the stage because of his voice...

yeah, it is really quite sad what he did to himself. I like the later years, too, and his singing is still great in the early 70's, but I like him sort of in the same way I like Cap't Kirk. He's a bit of a joke, if not completely a joke. Still cool, still Elvis, but laughable.

50's Elvis was just a badass all-around

kalelvisj said:

With Elvis it does ultimately all come down to his voice, but his moves and musicallity were a huge part of his success. Many noted musicians have talked about Elvis' musicianship (whether it be on guitar or piano and talked about the interesting quality of his rthymic style and how it proples the music regardless of the genre. Unfortunately there aren't more samples of his instrumental ability and an argument can be made that the focus on his voice may have hindered and hidden his natural talent as a musician.

His "dancing" is a pretty interesting topic because before he became disciplined (probably by Karate and movie staging) there was a wild freeness to his movements that was amazing. A quick look at youtube for clips from the 50's shows a physical performer who found a perfect balance between choreographed and imprompto movement. Girls probably werent' throwing the undergarments and phone numbers on the stage because of his voice...

But it does always comeback to the voice. Hamilton is surely a massive influence but I think some of the quartet singers who influenced him are often overlooked of which Jake Hess is a major example. Ultimately, I think what stands out is that Elvis knew his vocal limits but never accepted them. He did not have the natural lows or highs of some of the singers he most admired but he would push his voice to achieve the notes that they created with ease. Maybe it is the effort of his attempts that gave his voice that undefineable "Elvis" quality?

I think Elvis was modest about his impact, but I think his modesty sometimes overshadows his drive and determination and ultimately his own influence.

It is important to remember that Elvis recorded his first commercial song in July 1954. Many of the people he is said to have been influenced by didn't hit the national conciousness until 1955. A very specific instance of this is Bo Didley who said he saw Elvis standing in the wings of the Apollo in New York watching his performance. This may be true, but it would have been in late 1955 or early 1956. Diddley often stated that Elvis stole his whole stage show from watching that performance....but Elvis had already been causing riots everywhere he toured starting in August of 1954.

I think it is more fair to say that Elvis, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Carl Perkins, and Bo Diddley were influenced by the same people. You can find quotes from all of them talking about how they listened to everything on the radio (country, blues, jazz, r and b etc) and just made the music they felt.

You know that's some real interesting quotes about that. I always wondered how true Bo's statements were. He made it seem like Elvis outright stole from him but I didn't see nothing in Elvis' performances that was like "oh yeah that's Bo!" Or even Jackie since I don't think he ever did splits. Those moves with his legs were something else. He was KINDA like James in that he wasn't a trained dancer, but mainly he danced in the way he felt. The moves surely got the girls weak in the knees, explain why he created such a wave at 19. And they DID all emerge at the same time (1954, 1955) but the way you'll hear it, you think Chuck, Carl, Bo and Richard were established years before Elvis when all of them really emerged in '56! Richard DID have some recordings before Elvis but I don't recall none of them being a success until Dorothy Labostrie cleaned up "Tutti Frutti" for him and by then Elvis had already had country hits and some hits on some of Billboard's pop chart. We have to remember back in those days, the pop charts were different: there was a pop sales chart, a jukebox chart and the Top 100 and I think Elvis made the first two before he made the latter third chart, which was said to be the main chart...

Timmy84 said:

kalelvisj said:

With Elvis it does ultimately all come down to his voice, but his moves and musicallity were a huge part of his success. Many noted musicians have talked about Elvis' musicianship (whether it be on guitar or piano and talked about the interesting quality of his rthymic style and how it proples the music regardless of the genre. Unfortunately there aren't more samples of his instrumental ability and an argument can be made that the focus on his voice may have hindered and hidden his natural talent as a musician.

His "dancing" is a pretty interesting topic because before he became disciplined (probably by Karate and movie staging) there was a wild freeness to his movements that was amazing. A quick look at youtube for clips from the 50's shows a physical performer who found a perfect balance between choreographed and imprompto movement. Girls probably werent' throwing the undergarments and phone numbers on the stage because of his voice...

But it does always comeback to the voice. Hamilton is surely a massive influence but I think some of the quartet singers who influenced him are often overlooked of which Jake Hess is a major example. Ultimately, I think what stands out is that Elvis knew his vocal limits but never accepted them. He did not have the natural lows or highs of some of the singers he most admired but he would push his voice to achieve the notes that they created with ease. Maybe it is the effort of his attempts that gave his voice that undefineable "Elvis" quality?

I think Elvis was modest about his impact, but I think his modesty sometimes overshadows his drive and determination and ultimately his own influence.

It is important to remember that Elvis recorded his first commercial song in July 1954. Many of the people he is said to have been influenced by didn't hit the national conciousness until 1955. A very specific instance of this is Bo Didley who said he saw Elvis standing in the wings of the Apollo in New York watching his performance. This may be true, but it would have been in late 1955 or early 1956. Diddley often stated that Elvis stole his whole stage show from watching that performance....but Elvis had already been causing riots everywhere he toured starting in August of 1954.

I think it is more fair to say that Elvis, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Carl Perkins, and Bo Diddley were influenced by the same people. You can find quotes from all of them talking about how they listened to everything on the radio (country, blues, jazz, r and b etc) and just made the music they felt.

You know that's some real interesting quotes about that. I always wondered how true Bo's statements were. He made it seem like Elvis outright stole from him but I didn't see nothing in Elvis' performances that was like "oh yeah that's Bo!" Or even Jackie since I don't think he ever did splits. Those moves with his legs were something else. He was KINDA like James in that he wasn't a trained dancer, but mainly he danced in the way he felt. The moves surely got the girls weak in the knees, explain why he created such a wave at 19. And they DID all emerge at the same time (1954, 1955) but the way you'll hear it, you think Chuck, Carl, Bo and Richard were established years before Elvis when all of them really emerged in '56! Richard DID have some recordings before Elvis but I don't recall none of them being a success until Dorothy Labostrie cleaned up "Tutti Frutti" for him and by then Elvis had already had country hits and some hits on some of Billboard's pop chart. We have to remember back in those days, the pop charts were different: there was a pop sales chart, a jukebox chart and the Top 100 and I think Elvis made the first two before he made the latter third chart, which was said to be the main chart...

there was one less famous singer that I have heard Elvis accused of more directly ripping off, in terms of style of performing, etc...but I can't remember who it was now!

I agree with you, though. He was just another singer IMO. Surely he was influenced by someone, but then everyone was. He definitely had his own thing. I always say too, nobody wants to claim that they wore jumpsuits and did karate onstage before Elvis did. They only want to claim the good stuff

NDRU said:

Timmy84 said:

You know that's some real interesting quotes about that. I always wondered how true Bo's statements were. He made it seem like Elvis outright stole from him but I didn't see nothing in Elvis' performances that was like "oh yeah that's Bo!" Or even Jackie since I don't think he ever did splits. Those moves with his legs were something else. He was KINDA like James in that he wasn't a trained dancer, but mainly he danced in the way he felt. The moves surely got the girls weak in the knees, explain why he created such a wave at 19. And they DID all emerge at the same time (1954, 1955) but the way you'll hear it, you think Chuck, Carl, Bo and Richard were established years before Elvis when all of them really emerged in '56! Richard DID have some recordings before Elvis but I don't recall none of them being a success until Dorothy Labostrie cleaned up "Tutti Frutti" for him and by then Elvis had already had country hits and some hits on some of Billboard's pop chart. We have to remember back in those days, the pop charts were different: there was a pop sales chart, a jukebox chart and the Top 100 and I think Elvis made the first two before he made the latter third chart, which was said to be the main chart...

there was one less famous singer that I have heard Elvis accused of more directly ripping off, in terms of style of performing, etc...but I can't remember who it was now!

I agree with you, though. He was just another singer IMO. Surely he was influenced by someone, but then everyone was. He definitely had his own thing. I always say too, nobody wants to claim that they wore jumpsuits and did karate onstage before Elvis did. They only want to claim the good stuff

Probably Ricky Nelson.

Little Richard sometimes fails to mention that he was always wearing glittery suspenders and head wraps (that he got from Esquerita ) and I think Carl Perkins was actually wearing the jumpsuits before Elvis did.

Bottom line is all of them became successful almost at the same time.

Sort of off topic for a sec. But when you guys.. or some of you say you don't like U2. Is it really cause of Bono? i mean to each his own & i'm a big fan but can see why people dislike them. But usually a huge percentage of the time it's cause they don't like bono, I Mean The Edge & Larry pretty much keep there mouth shut except for a few words. And Adam hasn't talked since... probably 1987 or so it seem's

And i noticed i know Timmy you are not a huge fan but you still say you think they are influential... so so you dislike them or are you just so-so cause of Bono?

Gunsnhalen said:

Sort of off topic for a sec. But when you guys.. or some of you say you don't like U2. Is it really cause of Bono? i mean to each his own & i'm a big fan but can see why people dislike them. But usually a huge percentage of the time it's cause they don't like bono, I Mean The Edge & Larry pretty much keep there mouth shut except for a few words. And Adam hasn't talked since... probably 1987 or so it seem's

And i noticed i know Timmy you are not a huge fan but you still say you think they are influential... so so you dislike them or are you just so-so cause of Bono?

One bad apple can spoil a whole bunch. I'll leave it at that.

For a lot of people I know who are of the 80's generation, U2 kind of falls into the same category as Madonna, MJ and Prince. Once you start saying "I'm an Icon" or I'm important, etc it kind of diminishes not so much (but sometime) the quality of their work, but how that work is viewed.

With Bono, who also became very much an activist there become this whole other level of self-importance and self-righteousness that shades what ever art they are creating. In someways, it has happened with Sting and to some degrees Prince as well.

But to put in context, if I had to pick an album to play people to represent the best of the early 90's, Achtung baby would have to be on the list, but as much as I loved it, Diamonds and Pearls may not make the list.

That Elvis always deferred to other talents like Ray Charles, Arthur Crudup, Jake Hess and Fats Domino and let his work speak for itself is one of the reasons he was able to maintain a level of popularity throughout his career that evaded Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry and Little Richard who were and are always ready put the spotlight fully on themselves.

back to the Bono video for just a second. While it didn't make it into the video there is a great cliip of Elvis at the press conference he gave for his record breaking stint at Madison Square Garden. An interviewer asked him about his reputation for being a shy humble country boy, to which Elvis stands up and opens jacket and says "I don't know, I've got this giant golden belt buckle..." and laughs at himself. The contradiction between blinged out "star" and self decreciating and humble humor kind of provided him a shield from becoming self important.

I wish a few more or today's stars could muster a bit of humility.

kalelvisj said:

For a lot of people I know who are of the 80's generation, U2 kind of falls into the same category as Madonna, MJ and Prince. Once you start saying "I'm an Icon" or I'm important, etc it kind of diminishes not so much (but sometime) the quality of their work, but how that work is viewed.

With Bono, who also became very much an activist there become this whole other level of self-importance and self-righteousness that shades what ever art they are creating. In someways, it has happened with Sting and to some degrees Prince as well.

But to put in context, if I had to pick an album to play people to represent the best of the early 90's, Achtung baby would have to be on the list, but as much as I loved it, Diamonds and Pearls may not make the list.

That Elvis always deferred to other talents like Ray Charles, Arthur Crudup, Jake Hess and Fats Domino and let his work speak for itself is one of the reasons he was able to maintain a level of popularity throughout his career that evaded Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry and Little Richard who were and are always ready put the spotlight fully on themselves.

back to the Bono video for just a second. While it didn't make it into the video there is a great cliip of Elvis at the press conference he gave for his record breaking stint at Madison Square Garden. An interviewer asked him about his reputation for being a shy humble country boy, to which Elvis stands up and opens jacket and says "I don't know, I've got this giant golden belt buckle..." and laughs at himself. The contradiction between blinged out "star" and self decreciating and humble humor kind of provided him a shield from becoming self important.

I wish a few more or today's stars could muster a bit of humility.

to all of that... yeah I never heard or seen such a humble guy. Dude never acted like he was above anyone. He remembered where he came from and he never strayed THAT far away from his sound despite what some rock critics claim. And you definitely have a point about the others wanting the spotlight though I can understand why Chuck and Richard did it because they felt they weren't getting the same accolades but reading their histories, I can kinda see why though.

to all of that... yeah I never heard or seen such a humble guy. Dude never acted like he was above anyone. He remembered where he came from and he never strayed THAT far away from his sound despite what some rock critics claim. And you definitely have a point about the others wanting the spotlight though I can understand why Chuck and Richard did it because they felt they weren't getting the same accolades but reading their histories, I can kinda see why though.

I definitely agree with you that all of the other key players kind of get pushed to the sides and were not given the credit they deserved for far too long. It is an unfortunate sign of the times. Jim Crow was a mighty (evil) force to be reconded with.

In the classes I teach where we dig into the history a litlte bit it is always the hardest part to find the way to make sure everyone gets their full credit without underplaying the importance of other people.

With the history of Rock n Roll one of the key things that made it's impact as big as it is/was is the perfect storm of all of the music coming together in one big flashpoint. If you were to take anyone of the class of 55-56 out of the equation then it all kind of falls apart. It took Elvis and Little Richard to add up to the beatles. It took them plus Jerry Lee and Chuck Berry to get to the Stones, and on and on. Far too often people try to piecemeal history and it just doesn't work that way.

kalelvisj said:

to all of that... yeah I never heard or seen such a humble guy. Dude never acted like he was above anyone. He remembered where he came from and he never strayed THAT far away from his sound despite what some rock critics claim. And you definitely have a point about the others wanting the spotlight though I can understand why Chuck and Richard did it because they felt they weren't getting the same accolades but reading their histories, I can kinda see why though.

I definitely agree with you that all of the other key players kind of get pushed to the sides and were not given the credit they deserved for far too long. It is an unfortunate sign of the times. Jim Crow was a mighty (evil) force to be reconded with.

In the classes I teach where we dig into the history a litlte bit it is always the hardest part to find the way to make sure everyone gets their full credit without underplaying the importance of other people.

With the history of Rock n Roll one of the key things that made it's impact as big as it is/was is the perfect storm of all of the music coming together in one big flashpoint. If you were to take anyone of the class of 55-56 out of the equation then it all kind of falls apart. It took Elvis and Little Richard to add up to the beatles. It took them plus Jerry Lee and Chuck Berry to get to the Stones, and on and on. Far too often people try to piecemeal history and it just doesn't work that way.

Exactly, they all belong together because together, they brought together all the elements that shaped future generations. To me they're all kings of rock and roll.

Timmy84 said:

Exactly, they all belong together because together, they brought together all the elements that shaped future generations. To me they're all kings of rock and roll.

Amen! The wonderful thing about music is that there is room for everyone and once it is in the air, to paraphrase B.B. King, it belongs to everyone.

kalelvisj said:

Timmy84 said:

Exactly, they all belong together because together, they brought together all the elements that shaped future generations. To me they're all kings of rock and roll.

Amen! The wonderful thing about music is that there is room for everyone and once it is in the air, to paraphrase B.B. King, it belongs to everyone.

Yep. I just noticed I said "together" three times almost simultaneously but you got what I meant.

Bono needs to focus on music and quit talking...

Timmy84 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Well U2 is one of my favorite bands. But i feel ya as much as i love them i can also see why some peopel are eh on them. I think Bono is a good writer but then there are times like these where he just......... uhhh yeah idk what to call this

And yeah as for Chuck D he still has respect for Elvis... and i personally never took any offense to the fuck elvis & john wayne comment

And from what I can tell not many folks really bothered with it since it actually rhymed and it was like "eh".

First of all Bono is reading off a card , i dont take offense because people across the board have called Elvis a racist, but then have pulled it back and said "he had respect for black artists" Elvis hated the Beatles wanted them "taken care of" that is fact too, but also shook hands with George Harrison and hung out with him. These artists all contradict something somewhere, if you look at them that in depth, Bono doesnt bother me cause he has been that way since day one, in watching the LIVE AID documentary recently i hadnt recalled the day before Bono Was going to quit the show because he doubted its work. But on the same documentary is Daryl Hall calling Queen jerks for playing Sun City two years before, without looking into why they were actually there.

Timmy is right, Chuck D has softened on Elvis.

2freaky4church1 said:

Timmy is right, Chuck D has softened on Elvis.

they all soften as they get older, its why bands get back together later in life, shoot 10 years ago the Beach Boys were all suing each other for everything down to wardrobe now they have one of the years best albums

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

And from what I can tell not many folks really bothered with it since it actually rhymed and it was like "eh".

First of all Bono is reading off a card , i dont take offense because people across the board have called Elvis a racist, but then have pulled it back and said "he had respect for black artists" Elvis hated the Beatles wanted them "taken care of" that is fact too, but also shook hands with George Harrison and hung out with him. These artists all contradict something somewhere, if you look at them that in depth, Bono doesnt bother me cause he has been that way since day one, in watching the LIVE AID documentary recently i hadnt recalled the day before Bono Was going to quit the show because he doubted its work. But on the same documentary is Daryl Hall calling Queen jerks for playing Sun City two years before, without looking into why they were actually there.

Elvis' relationship with the Beatles is another complicated part of his history. Musically and personally he actually liked the Beatles quite a bit. He did express some pretty heated views on the beatles in his meeting with Nixon and then with some FBI officials, but to be honest, I think he was playing them to get his Narcotics badge. He knew Nixon was very counter culture so, Elvis went in prepared to say what ever he had to say about anyone to get what he wanted. Sadly, this is an example of some very typical drug addict behavior.

Still you got admire the balls on someone who will go in the oval office lit up and pretty much demand a badge so that he can wage a war on drugs. A bit more of the contradictory nature that Bono is trying to address in the video, I think.

^ Yeah that's how I looked at it and noting his own drug addiction, it was hilarious. James Brown was doing the same thing when he was on PCP.