The scuffle over the usage of the term genius in reference to Marvin Gaye inspired this thread.

Genius is defined by Wikipedia as someone embodying exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality, typically to a degree that is associated with the achievement of unprecedented insight.

Genius is a word used on the org daily to describe many, many musicans, including (but not limited to) Prince, Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye (), James Brown, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, etc. One of the common objections to the usage of the word is that genius is used to "loosely" to desribe these musicians, which inspired me to create this thread.

Does the notion of genius have any real meaning? How do you prove that one possesses what we call genius? Is it not purely subjective? If it is, then does it mean that genius does not exist?

Does genius just not exist, and are the many that we call geniuses just products of hard work and dedication? Is it just a case of nature vs. nurture?

I'm curious to see what y'all think.

[Edited 6/29/12 9:22am]

If Mozart ain't a genius, then nobody is.

LOL

I'm starting to think there are works of genius but no subject

or person having embodied these qualities as a part of their

own being. This is because it is hard to quantify the qualities

of genius and the fact that language is a fluid, dynamic concept

in which the meanings of words can and do change....

Mozart, Monk, McCartney, Miles, McLaughlin and I'm good!

U can't prove it as it relates 2 taste in music.

The word is used so aften, 4 so many people that it has ZERO meaning now.

IMHO it should be reserved 4 a certain few.

U know gensius when u hear it.......but people have different taste and it really is subjective.

In the realm of Music, there is Prince and Stevie Wonder.

That is all 4 my taste.

[Edited 6/29/12 9:31am]

To me, it's all of preference in how one hears the music. Me I don't take the word serious unless I hear it in a sense and think what they did is genius...

MickyDolenz said:

That is............................GENIUS.

Those artists along with a few others, are a dozen of the best of billions and billions and billions. Is that not exceptional? Their achievements are definitely unparalleled, as is their success.

[Edited 6/29/12 11:12am]

There are many geniuses in this world, after all there are over 7 billion people, some people get famous and some don't. Some people have the capacity to see things before other people from their same time, it's very hard to say who's a genius. It's very much about preference but there are artists that have shaped the sound of music and changed it, like Louis Armstrong did for instance. People such as Quincy Jones that can write a whole orchestral piece without having an instrument because he hears it in his head. In general though, music is about dedication, team effort and that you get inspired by others and being at the right place at the right time.

Nice thread topic

Geniuses does exist but like alot here have said only a select few on this earth are. The definition of genius in terms of today's music industry and sometimes on this board is used as just another music term. It is used as if genius status is something that is reachable when in reality it is a gift that only a very few are blessed to have. At the end of the day when it comes to music specifically, I do think people define genius differently according to their taste and what they have or have not been exposed to musically (that does make a huge difference by the way).

However, I think what needs to be noted is the artists that are commonly called geniuses ex. Marvin, Stevie, Prince, MJ.. etc have profoundly changed music in some way and their will NEVER be artists like them again... so just having talent alone doesnt make you a genius necessarily. Most of these music debates on defining genius are just based on musical (musician) geniuses and I think in terms of music it can be broader than just musicians which is a biased some posters on this board tend to have since this is a Prince site.

It all depends on the person hearing or seeing the piece of art/work. Some may call the person genius, some may call them talentless.

Genius is someone who creates something that didn't exist before

period

JoeTyler said:

Genius is someone who creates something that didn't exist before

period

Nah, they're folks who don't know what the hell they created until they're TOLD they're created something. I'm sure James Brown even with all his boasting didn't know what he was creating and neither did his musicians, who helped him along.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

Genius is someone who creates something that didn't exist before

period

Nah, they're folks who don't know what the hell they created until they're TOLD they're created something. I'm sure James Brown even with all his boasting didn't know what he was creating and neither did his musicians, who helped him along.

eh, well yeah, that's right, a genius/pioneer can create something without knowing it, of course

The Rolling Stones are hardly geniuses, more like great rockers...Robert Johnson is THE genius

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

Nah, they're folks who don't know what the hell they created until they're TOLD they're created something. I'm sure James Brown even with all his boasting didn't know what he was creating and neither did his musicians, who helped him along.

eh, well yeah, that's right, a genius/pioneer can create something without knowing it, of course

The Rolling Stones are hardly geniuses, more like great rockers...Robert Johnson is THE genius

There's always the debate about who "created" rock... I'm guessing CHUCK BERRY's the genius?

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

eh, well yeah, that's right, a genius/pioneer can create something without knowing it, of course

The Rolling Stones are hardly geniuses, more like great rockers...Robert Johnson is THE genius

There's always the debate about who "created" rock... I'm guessing CHUCK BERRY's the genius?

hmm, the guy who sang Good Rockin' Tonight in the late-40s? can't remember the name right now

Chuck definitely was a genius as far as guitar-playing goes...but he was def influenced by the stuff that existed before him...

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

There's always the debate about who "created" rock... I'm guessing CHUCK BERRY's the genius?

hmm, the guy who sang Good Rockin' Tonight in the late-40s? can't remember the name right now

Chuck definitely was a genius as far as guitar-playing goes...but he was def influenced by the stuff that existed before him...

Roy Brown. And yeah I definitely cite him as the innovator of rock even though it was still called rhythm and blues. Then his homeboy Wynonnie Harris took it to another dimension.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

hmm, the guy who sang Good Rockin' Tonight in the late-40s? can't remember the name right now

Chuck definitely was a genius as far as guitar-playing goes...but he was def influenced by the stuff that existed before him...

Roy Brown. And yeah I definitely cite him as the innovator of rock even though it was still called rhythm and blues. Then his homeboy Wynonnie Harris took it to another dimension.

one thing is for sure, Elvis wasn't the creator of rock

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

Roy Brown. And yeah I definitely cite him as the innovator of rock even though it was still called rhythm and blues. Then his homeboy Wynonnie Harris took it to another dimension.

one thing is for sure, Elvis wasn't the creator of rock

He called Fats Domino the king of rock and roll.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

one thing is for sure, Elvis wasn't the creator of rock

He called Fats Domino the king of rock and roll.

the things Elvis said and the things he did (specially in the 60s, with all those movies) make me think that he always knew his place: a top entertainer, not a genius...

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

He called Fats Domino the king of rock and roll.

the things Elvis said and the things he did (specially in the 60s, with all those movies) make me think that he always knew his place: a top entertainer, not a genius...

He BEEN knowing... He constantly corrected folks who thought he was a genius. He'll say "no I'm not" in a heartbeat. People forget that. That's why you can't feed into the media because they're the ones who said that, not Elvis. His manager helped with that bullshit. But Elvis himself would say "no this person or that person". He always bigged up folks like Jackie and Clyde McPhatter and Little Richard and Chuck and Fats and Roy Brown and Roy Hamilton and Wynonnie Harris and Arthur Crudup (RCA/Sun didn't pay him for having Elvis cover his tune).

Anyway back to the original point, genius is definitely subjective to me.

Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent perspiration.

There's some genius right here on the org.

[Edited 6/29/12 17:52pm]

To me i only think a few artists are genius and that is jut my opinion of course. But you can be REALLY good at music or what you do. But a genius... is a litte much

Around some past threads i saw people call Kanye West & R. Kelly genius... i'm a big fan of both but they are way far from genius. Good producers.... but genius nah.

Someone to me can be genius for different reasons

Like multi instrumentalist who make interesting sounds ala Prince, Todd Rundren, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Terence Trent D'Arby.

Or those who are just great storytellers/poets ala Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Bruce Springsteen, Curtis Mayfield.

But see that is just how i view it... to someone else that can mean nothing.

What do you thikn is a genius a multi instrumentalist songwriter? composer? poet? Someone that makes you go OH SHIT that's amazing when you hear it or listen to the words?

Gunsnhalen said:

To me i only think a few artists are genius and that is jut my opinion of course. But you can be REALLY good at music or what you do. But a genius... is a litte much

Around some past threads i saw people call Kanye West & R. Kelly genius... i'm a big fan of both but they are way far from genius. Good producers.... but genius nah.

Someone to me can be genius for different reasons

Like multi instrumentalist who make interesting sounds ala Prince, Todd Rundren, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Terence Trent D'Arby.

Or those who are just great storytellers/poets ala Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Bruce Springsteen, Curtis Mayfield.

But see that is just how i view it... to someone else that can mean nothing.

What do you thikn is a genius a multi instrumentalist songwriter? composer? poet? Someone that makes you go OH SHIT that's amazing when you hear it or listen to the words?

Exactly...

Genius in regards to music is not exclusive to only musicians.