A nice summery, calypso sound for ya'll kinda messed up that the cover says El Debarge with Debarge what's that all about?

nursev said:

A nice summery, calypso sound for ya'll kinda messed up that the cover says El Debarge with Debarge what's that all about?

I heard that was Berry Gordy's idea, he wanted to make a new Michael Jackson. On the album cover, El has a larger photo than the others. Right afterwards, El quit the group for his solo career. I think Motown dropped the rest of the group. Remember that Berry did this before: Diana Ross & The Supremes, Smokey Robinson & The Miracles. He had Diana introduce the J5 as Michael Jackson and The Jackson 5, which makes no sense as a name since Mike is part of the "5", unless Johnny Jackson counts.

MickyDolenz said:

nursev said:

A nice summery, calypso sound for ya'll kinda messed up that the cover says El Debarge with Debarge what's that all about?

I heard that was Berry Gordy's idea, he wanted to make a new Michael Jackson. On the album cover, El has a larger photo than the others. Right afterwards, El quit the group for his solo career. I think Motown dropped the rest of the group. Remember that Berry did this before: Diana Ross & The Supremes, Smokey Robinson & The Miracles. He had Diana introduce the J5 as Michael Jackson and The Jackson 5, which makes no sense as a name since Mike is part of the "5", unless Johnny Jackson counts.

Berry Gordy was a cold man Damn that was really wrong to do to Debarge and the Jackson 5-sad. Diana seemed like she would go for some mess like that though-love her, but it is what it is.

Here's the album cover.

MickyDolenz said:

Here's the album cover.

The pic says it all

nursev said:

The pic says it all

It's similar to these:

MickyDolenz said:

nursev said:

The pic says it all

It's similar to these:

I could see the Rufus split coming though

nursev said:

I could see the Rufus split coming though

Some groups, the band is rarely photographed or appear in videos, and so people think that it's a solo act like Blondie, Sade, & Jamiroquai.

You look at the album credits for "Rhythm of the night". The Debarges don't sing backup on one single track (apart from the tacked on reissue tracks). It was a cash in mostly written and produced by outsiders (el lay session guys were all the rage back then)

Chico, who of course was never a member of the group, did help El write "you wear it well", which El also produced and Mark took lead on another track, but when you don't hear them on backing vocals on any of the tracks, then you know something is fishy....

As for "The heart is not so smart". Back then Diane Warren could write more mid-tempo, even uptempo stuff! It's very cute and I like the track too LOL.

^^Chico did later do an album with the group, minus Bunny & El.

[Edited 6/27/12 20:08pm]

MickyDolenz said:

^^Chico did later do an album with the group, minus Bunny & El.

[Edited 6/27/12 20:08pm]

I own that album and whilst the album doesn't state who is actually in the group, Chico ain't on it. Iam not up on what they look like, but I can't see Chico on the cover. I couldn't hear him on any of the vocals and he doesn't even have a co-write. I remember years ago someone posted a clip of them singing "You're a big boy" and I think Chico was there with them on the tv show, but he ain't on the album for what I can see.

Chico was still at Motown in 1987 and the album would have to credit that, which it doesn't.

Chico is the last upside down picture.

MickyDolenz said:

Chico is the last upside down picture.

Ok, I have the CD in my hand now. I also have a couple of Chico's vinyl albums in my hand, and they ain't the same people.

We need a Debarge die hard to confirm this LOL. And as I said, he was still at Motown in 1987, so very highly unlikely he would slum it with his brothers on an indie label release. That and the other points I made...

Chico has blond hair here

[Edited 6/27/12 20:24pm]

They're with older brother Bobby (Switch) on this clip.

MickyDolenz said:

Chico has blond hair here

[Edited 6/27/12 20:24pm]

I already mentioned that,and the clip I was thinking of "you're a big boy" you didn't even post. You posted him singing "cross that line", a SOLO song from his debut. Jesus christ!

Yes Chico is with the group on the tv show, but notice how he DOES NOT PERFORM with the group when they sing "you're a big boy" and vice verca when Chico sang "Cross that line". Why is Chico there? God knows, but Chico is not on the "bad boys" album and infact the clip above just proved it conclusively for me.

That whole album cover fiasco has probably caused the DeBarges more heartache than most things in life. That was Motown's way of saying that the only De Barge that mattered was El and their actions soon confirmed the impression the created by the album cover by dropping the group this same year, 1985.

Now for the REALLY crazy part...the record was a big hit, yet they still got dropped by Motown anyway! El survived there for a hot second, but his career and music was mismanaged by them too.

Imagine theinsanity of having the awesome singers that were De Barge NOT sing backup on their "own" album? Insanity...pure insanity.

This album is a better-than-decent mid 80s offering, but it symbolizes for me the terrible waste that Motown was sometimes guilty of when it came to talent that has the misfortune to be signed w/ them at the time.

thesexofit said:

I already mentioned that,and the clip I was thinking of "you're a big boy" you didn't even post. You posted him singing "cross that line", a SOLO song from his debut. Jesus christ!

I posted clips with Chico and Bobby (Robert) to show what they look like, not about the individual songs.

brooksie said:

That whole album cover fiasco has probably caused the DeBarges more heartache than most things in life. That was Motown's way of saying that the only De Barge that mattered was El and their actions soon confirmed the impression the created by the album cover by dropping the group this same year, 1985.

Now for the REALLY crazy part...the record was a big hit, yet they still got dropped by Motown anyway! El survived there for a hot second, but his career and music was mismanaged by them too.

Imagine theinsanity of having the awesome singers that were De Barge NOT sing backup on their "own" album? Insanity...pure insanity.

This album is a better-than-decent mid 80s offering, but it symbolizes for me the terrible waste that Motown was sometimes guilty of when it came to talent that has the misfortune to be signed w/ them at the time.

Yeah, I've had the album for years and just assumed they were on backing vocals, but nope! At least El got to help write and produce a few tracks, which was a bigger contribution compared to his first solo album, where, despite sounding on great form vocally, El contributed zero production or writing wise (though I love that his first solo album despite that LOL).

MickyDolenz said:

thesexofit said:

I already mentioned that,and the clip I was thinking of "you're a big boy" you didn't even post. You posted him singing "cross that line", a SOLO song from his debut. Jesus christ!

I posted clips with Chico and Bobby (Robert) to show what they look like, not about the individual songs.

What does that have to do with what I said about Chico not being on the "bad boys" album? Yes, Chico performed on the same tv show as his brothers, but as already mentioned, Chico did his solo song, they did their group song.

brooksie said:

That whole album cover fiasco has probably caused the DeBarges more heartache than most things in life. That was Motown's way of saying that the only De Barge that mattered was El and their actions soon confirmed the impression the created by the album cover by dropping the group this same year, 1985.

Now for the REALLY crazy part...the record was a big hit, yet they still got dropped by Motown anyway! El survived there for a hot second, but his career and music was mismanaged by them too.

Imagine theinsanity of having the awesome singers that were De Barge NOT sing backup on their "own" album? Insanity...pure insanity.

This album is a better-than-decent mid 80s offering, but it symbolizes for me the terrible waste that Motown was sometimes guilty of when it came to talent that has the misfortune to be signed w/ them at the time.

There's a Temptations album from the 1970's, where the actual group sings on one song, and the rest of the album is Dennis Edwards and some session background singers. Some of the Diana Ross & The Supremes songs were really Diana & The Andantes. Mary & Cindy weren't on them at all. There's a few Spinners songs with only female background vocals (The Sweethearts).

thesexofit said:

brooksie said:

That whole album cover fiasco has probably caused the DeBarges more heartache than most things in life. That was Motown's way of saying that the only De Barge that mattered was El and their actions soon confirmed the impression the created by the album cover by dropping the group this same year, 1985.

Now for the REALLY crazy part...the record was a big hit, yet they still got dropped by Motown anyway! El survived there for a hot second, but his career and music was mismanaged by them too.

Imagine theinsanity of having the awesome singers that were De Barge NOT sing backup on their "own" album? Insanity...pure insanity.

This album is a better-than-decent mid 80s offering, but it symbolizes for me the terrible waste that Motown was sometimes guilty of when it came to talent that has the misfortune to be signed w/ them at the time.

Yeah, I've had the album for years and just assumed they were on backing vocals, but nope! At least El got to help write and produce a few tracks, which was a bigger contribution compared to his first solo album, where, despite sounding on great form vocally, El contributed zero production or writing wise (though I love that his first solo album despite that LOL).

Yup...that was crazy too. That did a real number on El for many years...it left him terribly insecure about his work and his abilities for years to come.

[Edited 6/27/12 20:59pm]

thesexofit said:

MickyDolenz said:

I posted clips with Chico and Bobby (Robert) to show what they look like, not about the individual songs.

What does that have to do with what I said about Chico not being on the "bad boys" album? Yes, Chico performed on the same tv show as his brothers, but as already mentioned, Chico did his solo song, they did their group song.

Quote: I am not up on what they look like.

Since Bobby is with them on the Soul Train clip, maybe he is on the album, but that picture doesn't look like him.

[Edited 6/27/12 21:06pm]

MickyDolenz said:

brooksie said:

That whole album cover fiasco has probably caused the DeBarges more heartache than most things in life. That was Motown's way of saying that the only De Barge that mattered was El and their actions soon confirmed the impression the created by the album cover by dropping the group this same year, 1985.

Now for the REALLY crazy part...the record was a big hit, yet they still got dropped by Motown anyway! El survived there for a hot second, but his career and music was mismanaged by them too.

Imagine theinsanity of having the awesome singers that were De Barge NOT sing backup on their "own" album? Insanity...pure insanity.

This album is a better-than-decent mid 80s offering, but it symbolizes for me the terrible waste that Motown was sometimes guilty of when it came to talent that has the misfortune to be signed w/ them at the time.

There's a Temptations album from the 1970's, where the actual group sings on one song, and the rest of the album is Dennis Edwards and some session background singers. Some of the Diana Ross & The Supremes songs were really Diana & The Andantes. Mary & Cindy weren't on them at all. There's a few Spinners songs with only female background vocals (The Sweethearts).

I've always HATED the Andantes! God they're so shrill!

Motown had a way of doing this to groups/acts they either a) wanted to break up or b) they wanted to "discipline" for some reason. The musical results rarely were as good as they could have been w/the original group and sometimes they were pretty dismal!

brooksie said:

thesexofit said:

Yeah, I've had the album for years and just assumed they were on backing vocals, but nope! At least El got to help write and produce a few tracks, which was a bigger contribution compared to his first solo album, where, despite sounding on great form vocally, El contributed zero production or writing wise (though I love that his first solo album despite that LOL).

Yup...that was crazy too. That did a real number to El for many years...it left him terribly insecure about his work and his abilities.

Love his debut. Big fan of the 2 producers Robbie Buchanan and Peter Wolf (not the J Geils frontman LOL) featured on that album.

I don't understand what Motown did with that record? Obviously the album is big budget and high tech as hell (it was the mid 80's after all), and despite some of it sounding like Starship, why didn't Motown at least try a strong AOR song like "I wanna hear it from my heart" to AOR/MOR radio? I swear the same people who were buying Chicago and Starship records would of bought that song in droves.

I've got soft rock people onto "I wanna hear it from my heart" and they never would of guessed it was El Debarge LOL.

El is a little drowned out by the chorus at the end, but when you have people like Michael Mcdonald, the waters, Siedah Garrettt, Phil Perry, Phillip Ingram...., then thats bound to happen. The backing vocals are lush. Beautifully arranged and produced, and El sounds great on the key change at the end.

MickyDolenz said:

thesexofit said:

What does that have to do with what I said about Chico not being on the "bad boys" album? Yes, Chico performed on the same tv show as his brothers, but as already mentioned, Chico did his solo song, they did their group song.

Quote: I am not up on what they look like.

Since Bobby is with them on the Soul Train clip, maybe he is on the album, but that picture doesn't look like him.

[Edited 6/27/12 21:06pm]

If your not up to what they look like then why say "Chico is the last upside down picture". You sounded pretty confident about it. Your so hard headed LOL

thesexofit said:

MickyDolenz said:

Quote: I am not up on what they look like.

Since Bobby is with them on the Soul Train clip, maybe he is on the album, but that picture doesn't look like him.

If your not up to what they look like then why say "Chico is the last upside down picture". You sounded pretty confident about it. Your so hard headed LOL

That's your quote (post #10), that's why I posted the videos. My cousin has that album. I only have the DeBarge albums with El and El's solo records.

I just watched the Punky Brewster clip again. Bobby's name is in the show credits.

[Edited 6/27/12 21:29pm]

thesexofit...Motown didn't promote it very well, but they never seemed eager to spend any but the smallest amount of $$$$ on El an 'em. For the life of me, I don't get it. No videos until RoTN for the group and none afterwards, a few vids for El, and most all very little push for the De Barge "brand"! Both the group and El could have been much biggerin their Motown days if they had given them the right push, at the right time, and in the right directions.

Just my take tho.

[Edited 6/27/12 21:43pm]

Just FYI...

Chico never sang w/any incarnation of "De Barge" even tho he appeared w/them on Punky Brewster (w/that CRAZY blond hair! ).

Bobby replaced El after they were dropped from Motown as a group and they went back to being a quartet. They only did one record as that version..."Bad Boys" on White Horse Records (IIRC) and then Bobby/Chico went to jail for dealing not long after!

MickyDolenz said:

thesexofit said:

If your not up to what they look like then why say "Chico is the last upside down picture". You sounded pretty confident about it. Your so hard headed LOL

That's your quote (post #10), that's why I posted the videos. My cousin has that album. I only have the DeBarge albums with El and El's solo records.

I just watched the Punky Brewster clip again. Bobby's name is in the show credits.

[Edited 6/27/12 21:29pm]

Lord have mercy. Just admit you were wrong. Chico was not on "Bad boys". I thought there was a small chance he was, but the "Punky brewster" clips pretty much proved he wasn't. As I have said, I have the album and whilst the credits do not state who is in the group, I dont see Chico's name anywhere. And Bobby's name is on the album credits so of course why wouldn't Bobby's name show up on the "Punky Brewster" credits.

Heres your quote and I have proved you wrong and have explained why:-

"^^Chico did later do an album with the group, minus Bunny & El."