For the record,

As far as I know, Jimi Hendrix couldn't read music either;

does the fact that he couldn't recognize a Bb if it hit him

make him a lesser musician than Jones?

No. You don't need the knowledge in order to play rock/

blues that you probably and most likely need to have in jazz.

duccichucka said:

For the record,

As far as I know, Jimi Hendrix couldn't read music either;

does the fact that he couldn't recognize a Bb if it hit him

make him a lesser musician than Jones?

No. You don't need the knowledge in order to play rock/

blues that you probably and most likely need to have in jazz.

Jimi wasn't a shit hopper either. Any statement that makes those trashy bastards look like fools, I'm all for, because they shouldn't even be stars anyway. It's because of them that there's no damn jams for over two decades.

duccichucka said:

But just because Quincy Jones is all of these things doesn't necessarily make

him a "better/greater musician" than Diddy.

vainandy said:

duccichucka said:

For the record,

As far as I know, Jimi Hendrix couldn't read music either;

does the fact that he couldn't recognize a Bb if it hit him

make him a lesser musician than Jones?

No. You don't need the knowledge in order to play rock/

blues that you probably and most likely need to have in jazz.

Jimi wasn't a shit hopper either. Any statement that makes those trashy bastards look like fools, I'm all for, because they shouldn't even be stars anyway. It's because of them that there's no damn jams for over two decades.

Meh, you've been clowning hip hop since I've been here (2004). You

can't lump all of a particular genre into one category of suckiness; that's

unfair to the genre and those artists who are actually talented and work

hard at their craft.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

But just because Quincy Jones is all of these things doesn't necessarily make

him a "better/greater musician" than Diddy.

Qualify "better" and we can take it from there.

I'll wait.....

Again, Quincy Jones is a more polished musician, in a certain

context. I like Jones and think he's very important to the

American musical landscape but his opinion of Diddy smacks

of old-guard narrowmindedness and elitism. I'm a better musician

than Puffy because Puffy doesn't know what Bb is....whoop de

damn do, Quincy!

Isn't Miles Davis's On The Corner a bit of sampling? Doesn't

Sergio Mendes and Herbie Hancock voyage into hip hop at

various points of their careers?

duccichucka said:

Graycap23 said:

Qualify "better" and we can take it from there.

I'll wait.....

Again, Quincy Jones is a more polished musician, in a certain

context. I like Jones and think he's very important to the

American musical landscape but his opinion of Diddy smacks

of old-guard narrowmindedness and elitism. I'm a better musician

than Puffy because Puffy doesn't know what Bb is....whoop de

damn do, Quincy!

Isn't Miles Davis's On The Corner a bit of sampling? Doesn't

Sergio Mendes and Herbie Hancock voyage into hip hop at

various points of their careers?

Is Diddy even a musician? I've never seen this guy touch an instrument.

Why are u using legit qualified musicians like Mendes and Hancok as examples? It actually kills your argument. They are musicians 1st and 4most unlike the Diddy's of the world where if sampling/cover songs did not exist, they would have NO career in the music biz.

duccichucka said:

vainandy said:

Jimi wasn't a shit hopper either. Any statement that makes those trashy bastards look like fools, I'm all for, because they shouldn't even be stars anyway. It's because of them that there's no damn jams for over two decades.

Meh, you've been clowning hip hop since I've been here (2004). You

can't lump all of a particular genre into one category of suckiness; that's

unfair to the genre and those artists who are actually talented and work

hard at their craft.

And it still dominates doesn't it? So yeah, I'm gonna continue downing it until there is a 100% complete style change in R&B. Styles used to change about every five years or so, so what makes shit hop so special that it should continue dominating? Because it's cheap, that's why. So if people get tired of me downing it, that's tough, because they're not near as tired as I am of it dominating. Run the bullshit out of style and I'll stop downing it.

As for lumping it all together, I don't do that. That's why I say "shit hop" rather than "hip hop". As for those that may actually have talent, then they need to put it to good use to change music for the better and not sell out to a bullshit genre. I have no problem with it existing but I do have a problem with it dominating and it has dominated since the early to mid 1990s when it exploded with that boring ass "Chronic" album.

.

.

.

[Edited 6/29/12 9:52am]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I thought "Billie Jean" was written & produced by MJ??

It was written by MJ and co produced by MJ and Quincy Jones

You dont have to be able to read music to create a pop song. In Diddys case he is marginally talented at BEST

vainandy said:

duccichucka said:

Meh, you've been clowning hip hop since I've been here (2004). You

can't lump all of a particular genre into one category of suckiness; that's

unfair to the genre and those artists who are actually talented and work

hard at their craft.

And it still dominates doesn't it? So yeah, I'm gonna continue downing it until there is a 100% complete style change in R&B. Styles used to change about every five years or so, so what makes shit hop so special that it should continue dominating? Because it's cheap, that's why. So if people get tired of me downing it, that's tough, because they're not near as tired as I am of it dominating. Run the bullshit out of style and I'll stop downing it.

As for lumping it all together, I don't do that. That's why I say "shit hop" rather than "hip hop". As for those that may actually have talent, then they need to put it to good use to change music for the better and not sell out to a bullshit genre. I have no problem with it existing but I do have a problem with it dominating and it has dominated since the early to mid 1990s when it exploded with that boring ass "Chronic" album.

.

.

.

[Edited 6/29/12 9:46am]

Good points - can't argue with you.

duccichucka said:

For the record,

As far as I know, Jimi Hendrix couldn't read music either;

does the fact that he couldn't recognize a Bb if it hit him

make him a lesser musician than Jones?

No. You don't need the knowledge in order to play rock/

blues that you probably and most likely need to have in jazz.

I hate when peeps sample Prince.Which is why i'm glad he doesn't allow it most of the time. Now I like when Teddy Riley sampled MJ's Human Nature with the SWV song & most recently Chris Brown..

Azz said:

aardvark15 said:

Azz said:

Theres more than one level of meaning to what Quincy said.

Can you not see that?

I saw it as an old man yapping about the new music, so basically 40% of the topics on this site

More or less.

aardvark15 said:

Azz said:

Theres more than one level of meaning to what Quincy said.

Can you not see that?

I saw it as an old man yapping about the new music, so basically 40% of the topics on this site

I see it as an older man who is still young in spirit yapping about new music. Old people are known for liking dull music so if he was old, he would love today's new music. As for 40% of the topics here, look at the thread topics on the first page of this section. This is the only thread about it.

.

.

.

[Edited 6/29/12 10:36am]

vainandy said:

aardvark15 said:

Azz said: I saw it as an old man yapping about the new music, so basically 40% of the topics on this site

I see it as an older man who is still young in spirit yapping about new music. Old people are known for liking dull music so if he was old, he would love today's new music.

That is an odd conclusion.

[Edited 6/29/12 10:43am]

Azz said:

aardvark15 said:

Azz said: I saw it as an old man yapping about the new music, so basically 40% of the topics on this site

More or less.

So in a nutshell:

Azz said:

vainandy said:

I see it as an older man who is still young in spirit yapping about new music. Old people are known for liking dull music so if he was old, he would love today's new music.

That is an odd conclusion.

Notice I said new music as a whole rather than just P Shitty's music because the person I quoted simply said "new music" without specifying P Shitty. But when it comes to new music as a whole (mainly R&B), what is the majority of it? The majority of it is slow to midtempo and extremely dull. OK, that same description could apply to classical music also. Now, who are the main people that listen to classical music? Old people are. Now, put a classical record on one turntable and either a funk or disco record and try to mix them. It's not gonna work because you would have to speed the classical up a whole lot and you would have to slow the funk or disco record down big time. However, put a shit hop record on the other turntable and see how much altering in tempo you would have to do. Not very much because they're about at the same speed and Lord knows, shit hop is just as dull....hell, even more dull.

I didn't specifically say P Shitty though since the person I replied to didn't specify him because if I did, then I'd immediately hear...."well, he sampled "Planet Rock".....and try to tear my arguement down. But I'm gonna make shit hop be considered "dork" music if it's the last thing I do and Lord knows, folks have stereotyped classical listeners as "dorks" for years. Gotta find some way to make shit hop seem "uncool". Hey, disco was killed when old people started taking disco dance lessons and folks like Ethel Merman recorded a disco song. I say, try the same strategy and see if you can make shit hop "uncool" and kill it because unlike disco, Lord knows shit hop is just as dull as old folks music.

Azz said:

vainandy said:

I see it as an older man who is still young in spirit yapping about new music. Old people are known for liking dull music so if he was old, he would love today's new music.

That is an odd conclusion.

[Edited 6/29/12 10:43am]

OK, here's a better explanation. If you ever watched "WKRP in Cincinnatti", one of the very first episodes was the station was previously a classical station and switched over to a rock format. Old people, I'm talking "rest home" aged old people, picketed the station. One of the picket signs said "PLAY SOMETHING SLOW".

Now, if current R&B stations were to suddenly stop playing current music and start playing 1970s and 1980s either funk or disco, the result would be the same except this time, it would be young people holding up signs saying "PLAY SOMETHING SLOW". Seems to me that the majority of the younger generation are the ones that are really old in the head because the middle aged people these days still have spunk and fire and want something with some pep to it.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

Qualify "better" and we can take it from there.

I'll wait.....

Again, Quincy Jones is a more polished musician, in a certain

context. I like Jones and think he's very important to the

American musical landscape but his opinion of Diddy smacks

of old-guard narrowmindedness and elitism. I'm a better musician

than Puffy because Puffy doesn't know what Bb is....whoop de

damn do, Quincy!

Isn't Miles Davis's On The Corner a bit of sampling? Doesn't

Sergio Mendes and Herbie Hancock voyage into hip hop at

various points of their careers?

Is Diddy even a musician? I've never seen this guy touch an instrument.

Why are u using legit qualified musicians like Mendes and Hancok as examples? It actually kills your argument. They are musicians 1st and 4most unlike the Diddy's of the world where if sampling/cover songs did not exist, they would have NO career in the music biz.

Nuff Said.

vainandy said:

duccichucka said:

Meh, you've been clowning hip hop since I've been here (2004). You

can't lump all of a particular genre into one category of suckiness; that's

unfair to the genre and those artists who are actually talented and work

hard at their craft.

And it still dominates doesn't it?

No. Electro-pop does.

Q is right but then again, Diddy is a rapper. And rappers don't have to know a thing about music.

RodeoSchro said:

Q is right but then again, Diddy is a rapper. And rappers don't have to know a thing about music.

Why are you limiting it to rappers. As far back as written music has existed people have managed to be good at it without knowing how to read it. Just ask Jimi, oh wait that's different .

OK, Puffy was involved in rap music and contemporary R&B... but less in music and more in business...

Quincy Jones was a master of jazz and pop music...

In what Quincy was doing, he HAD to recognize a B-flat because, uh, he was studying music theory in addition to being involved as a musician. I mean he played trumpet in his early career for crying out loud but he's only one of a handful who actually read his music. Ask any of the Motown acts or Stax acts (and the musicians backing them up) and they wouldn't tell you about how to "read music". They probably mentioned chords but they wouldn't necessarily call themselves "experts".

Puffy was always a businessman who used music and talented artists to help bolster his empire. Asking him about a b-flat is like asking a football player about chemistry and that's quite a hard subject except to straight-A students.

So him saying this may get y'all dicks hard, but it's the same old same old folks have been saying for 20, 30 years.

I wonder when Frank Sinatra was saying rock and roll was crap and that "Elvis wouldn't know A-minor" (he hated Elvis and every other rock and roll act), how many of you patting Quincy in the back would be doing the same if someone like Frank or even Dean Martin trashing Elvis or Little Richard? Remember rockers were deemed untalented too (and sinful, hmm when have I heard THAT before? ).

Same script, different cast.

[Edited 6/29/12 14:29pm]

Timmy84 said:

OK, Puffy was involved in rap music and contemporary R&B... but less in music and more in business...

Quincy Jones was a master of jazz and pop music...

In what Quincy was doing, he HAD to recognize a B-flat because, uh, he was studying music theory in addition to being involved as a musician. I mean he played trumpet in his early career for crying out loud but he's only one of a handful who actually read his music. Ask any of the Motown acts or Stax acts (and the musicians backing them up) and they wouldn't tell you about how to "read music". They probably mentioned chords but they wouldn't necessarily call themselves "experts".

Puffy was always a businessman who used music and talented artists to help bolster his empire. Asking him about a b-flat is like asking a football player about chemistry and that's quite a hard subject except to straight-A students.

So him saying this may get y'all dicks hard, but it's the same old same old folks have been saying for 20, 30 years.

I wonder when Frank Sinatra was saying rock and roll was crap and that "Elvis wouldn't know A-minor" (he hated Elvis and every other rock and roll act), how many of you patting Quincy in the back would be doing the same if someone like Frank or even Dean Martin trashing Elvis or Little Richard? Remember rockers were deemed untalented too (and sinful, hmm when have I heard THAT before? ).

Same script, different cast.

[Edited 6/29/12 14:29pm]

They were hated because they brought rhythm into music and rhythm was considered evil. We can't stand these motherfuckers today because they have taken the rhythm back out of the music. Totally opposite reasons. It's like going backwards in music instead of moving forward with it and Lord knows how hard they fought to get the rhythm in the music in the first place only for some future generations to take it right back out again and make it even duller than before.

vainandy said:

Timmy84 said:

OK, Puffy was involved in rap music and contemporary R&B... but less in music and more in business...

Quincy Jones was a master of jazz and pop music...

In what Quincy was doing, he HAD to recognize a B-flat because, uh, he was studying music theory in addition to being involved as a musician. I mean he played trumpet in his early career for crying out loud but he's only one of a handful who actually read his music. Ask any of the Motown acts or Stax acts (and the musicians backing them up) and they wouldn't tell you about how to "read music". They probably mentioned chords but they wouldn't necessarily call themselves "experts".

Puffy was always a businessman who used music and talented artists to help bolster his empire. Asking him about a b-flat is like asking a football player about chemistry and that's quite a hard subject except to straight-A students.

So him saying this may get y'all dicks hard, but it's the same old same old folks have been saying for 20, 30 years.

I wonder when Frank Sinatra was saying rock and roll was crap and that "Elvis wouldn't know A-minor" (he hated Elvis and every other rock and roll act), how many of you patting Quincy in the back would be doing the same if someone like Frank or even Dean Martin trashing Elvis or Little Richard? Remember rockers were deemed untalented too (and sinful, hmm when have I heard THAT before? ).

Same script, different cast.

[Edited 6/29/12 14:29pm]

They were hated because they brought rhythm into music and rhythm was considered evil. We can't stand these motherfuckers today because they have taken the rhythm back out of the music. Totally opposite reasons. It's like going backwards in music instead of moving forward with it and Lord knows how hard they fought to get the rhythm in the music in the first place only for some future generations to take it right back out again and make it even duller than before.

smoothcriminal12 said:

vainandy said:

And it still dominates doesn't it?

No. Electro-pop does.

What you're talking about doesn't sound like "electro" to me. Sounds more like trance to me and that's nothing new either. That may be what's all over pop radio these days (and I never gave much of a damn about pop radio anyway) but every time I flip past the current R&B stations, all I still hear is shit hop.

vainandy said:

Timmy84 said:

OK, Puffy was involved in rap music and contemporary R&B... but less in music and more in business...

Quincy Jones was a master of jazz and pop music...

In what Quincy was doing, he HAD to recognize a B-flat because, uh, he was studying music theory in addition to being involved as a musician. I mean he played trumpet in his early career for crying out loud but he's only one of a handful who actually read his music. Ask any of the Motown acts or Stax acts (and the musicians backing them up) and they wouldn't tell you about how to "read music". They probably mentioned chords but they wouldn't necessarily call themselves "experts".

Puffy was always a businessman who used music and talented artists to help bolster his empire. Asking him about a b-flat is like asking a football player about chemistry and that's quite a hard subject except to straight-A students.

So him saying this may get y'all dicks hard, but it's the same old same old folks have been saying for 20, 30 years.

I wonder when Frank Sinatra was saying rock and roll was crap and that "Elvis wouldn't know A-minor" (he hated Elvis and every other rock and roll act), how many of you patting Quincy in the back would be doing the same if someone like Frank or even Dean Martin trashing Elvis or Little Richard? Remember rockers were deemed untalented too (and sinful, hmm when have I heard THAT before? ).

Same script, different cast.

[Edited 6/29/12 14:29pm]

They were hated because they brought rhythm into music and rhythm was considered evil. We can't stand these motherfuckers today because they have taken the rhythm back out of the music. Totally opposite reasons. It's like going backwards in music instead of moving forward with it and Lord knows how hard they fought to get the rhythm in the music in the first place only for some future generations to take it right back out again and make it even duller than before.

Well that hasn't stopped folks today thinking folks are evil and "untalented". It's probably just a matter of opinion and people shoving it in folks' mouths like always. Like I said same script, different cast. I don't know... I guess I just don't see all the vitriol some of y'all seem to spew about it. Sounding like that cat who got forced into a chair in a movie theater and get his eyes to stay open to watch graphic images in a form of electroshock like dude in A Clockwork Orange.

And also, some of y'all forget that saying "what may be trash to you may be genius to someone else".

I mean I know you don't shove the Village People down people's throats but you'd spit at anyone who don't agree with you because they're not willing to suck dick for disco.

Like I said, it's the same old story. People who hate a genre are gonna always compare it to someone else.

What is garbage to you may be filet mignon for someone else.