aardvark15 said:

BTW does anybody else find it strange that the documentary made no reference to Tammi or her death?

Yep because this is what actually led Marvin on the path he never fully recovered from. He was deeply connected with Tammi that didn't really had anything to do with romance. I think he figured Tammi was the perfect woman, he did say Tammi was his "perfect partner" during their duets. This is from what I heard.

Timmy84 said:

silverchild said:

Excess is certainly the devil, I tell ya!

It can make you do crazy things. Zeola (Marvin's little sister) was also caught up in that stuff.

Yep. Excess has destroyed every artist, family, and alliance that has ever existed. Drugs, money, hanger-ons, the so-called "American dream..."

Timmy84 said:

aardvark15 said:

BTW does anybody else find it strange that the documentary made no reference to Tammi or her death?

Yep because this is what actually led Marvin on the path he never fully recovered from. He was deeply connected with Tammi that didn't really had anything to do with romance. I think he figured Tammi was the perfect woman, he did say Tammi was his "perfect partner" during their duets. This is from what I heard.

exactly

Maybe all this is the reason why the Marvin movie has never seen daylight. Shit is on another level of sad.

silverchild said:

Timmy84 said:

It can make you do crazy things. Zeola (Marvin's little sister) was also caught up in that stuff.

Yep. Excess has destroyed every artist, family, and alliance that has ever existed. Drugs, money, hanger-ons, the so-called "American dream..."

When you read into stories of the artists that got hooked, it was usually because of their backgrounds and they figured drugs would be the answer to their problems. Sure, drugs even affected those that seemingly had good lives (Smokey Robinson struck me as one of those and even Diana Ross and Aretha Franklin had some issues with drugs and alcohol (Franklin was mostly on alcohol and cigarettes) in the past). With Marvin, drugs were what he needed to feel like he was somebody because he didn't feel like he was loved, of course it all stemmed from his parents - he wanted his wives to be like his mother and he wanted the love and attention from his father but every time Father Gay imposed his weird stance of discipline and authority it shaped Marvin to be a nonconforming rebel that risked it all for the sake of his art.

Timmy84 said:

silverchild said:

Yep. Excess has destroyed every artist, family, and alliance that has ever existed. Drugs, money, hanger-ons, the so-called "American dream..."

When you read into stories of the artists that got hooked, it was usually because of their backgrounds and they figured drugs would be the answer to their problems. Sure, drugs even affected those that seemingly had good lives (Smokey Robinson struck me as one of those and even Diana Ross and Aretha Franklin had some issues with drugs and alcohol (Franklin was mostly on alcohol and cigarettes) in the past). With Marvin, drugs were what he needed to feel like he was somebody because he didn't feel like he was loved, of course it all stemmed from his parents - he wanted his wives to be like his mother and he wanted the love and attention from his father but every time Father Gay imposed his weird stance of discipline and authority it shaped Marvin to be a nonconforming rebel that risked it all for the sake of his art.

Perfectly said.

aardvark15 said:

nursev said:

I always felt like the if he wasn't murdered he would've eventually took his own life. He just kinda had that kinda vibe going. Maybe it was the drugs or some other issue, but you could see it in his personality and on his face. He was just very unhappy.

I feel like the drugs would have gotten him sooner or later. I don't feel he would have shot himself.

I have the same feeling and the cause of death must def would have been the drugs. So sad. Gone too soon. It's so sad that all these greats have these tragic stories...

GoldDolphin said:

aardvark15 said:

I feel like the drugs would have gotten him sooner or later. I don't feel he would have shot himself.

I have the same feeling and the cause of death must def would have been the drugs. So sad. Gone too soon. It's so sad that all these greats have these tragic stories...

Back in the late '60s, probably after Tammi had her collapse and was struggling with her brain tumor, he had a fight with Anna and tried to kill himself. It was talked about briefly on his E! True Hollywood Story that aired back in 1998. He had the gun in his hand and Berry Gordy, Sr. banged on the door to let him in, when Marvin finally let him in, his father-in-law convinced him to drop the gun.

Thank you timmy! just watched it.

I'm a big fan of Marvina music but i guess there was so much i didn't know, i had no idea his dad was a cross dresser. Or that his brother Frankie helped to inspire What's Going On! also i looked at his bros bio i thought it was Marvin in the pic.. but nah it was Frankie. He is the absolute spitting image of Marvin! it's amazing!

But man i guess i didn't know just HOW BAD he had it for years. This makes me sad to always hear about artists i love strugling

Marvin had that smile & charisma that made him seem approachable and kind... And also it's a shame they seem to not credit many of his albums outside of the great What's Going On. I Want You & The insanly underrated Here My Dear where artistic highlights for him as well.

What's irene gayes story? she seem's like a pretty level headed gal. And stuck with Marvin in his bad times

Gunsnhalen said:

Thank you timmy! just watched it.

I'm a big fan of Marvina music but i guess there was so much i didn't know, i had no idea his dad was a cross dresser. Or that his brother Frankie helped to inspire What's Going On! also i looked at his bros bio i thought it was Marvin in the pic.. but nah it was Frankie. He is the absolute spitting image of Marvin! it's amazing!

But man i guess i didn't know just HOW BAD he had it for years. This makes me sad to always hear about artists i love strugling

Marvin had that smile & charisma that made him seem approachable and kind... And also it's a shame they seem to not credit many of his albums outside of the great What's Going On. I Want You & The insanly underrated Here My Dear where artistic highlights for him as well.

Frankie inspired "What's Happening Brother" but I think the other songs were inspired by other events. I think Irene exagerrated her late husband's influence on her brother-in-law's album. As for the book, you mean the pic of Frankie laying on something and posing for the camera? I could see it was Frankie. Marvin had certain features that were stronger than it was on Frankie's (his facial build for example). Marvin was a complex individual. Not all of his life was tragic but in his life, tragedy came together with triumph, joy and pain. It was the only way he made sense of his life and it influenced his music.

Gunsnhalen said:

I had no idea his dad was a cross dresser.

Neither did I. I still can't believe that now

Gunsnhalen said:

What's irene gayes story? she seem's like a pretty level headed gal. And stuck with Marvin in his bad times

Irene Thorpes Gaye first came into her husband and brother-in-law's life when Marvin was on some European tour. When they arrived to, I believe London, in 1976, Irene delivered a lei to Marvin welcoming him from Heathrow Airport. Frankie was smitten with Irene and as it turned out Irene was smitten with the both of them but got with Frankie because Marvin was with Janis and still in divorce court with Anna. They married in 1978. I think they lived next door to Marvin's parents even before Marvin relocated there.

aardvark15 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I had no idea his dad was a cross dresser.

Neither did I. I still can't believe that now

According to Bobby Taylor of the Vancouvers, who was friends with Marvin growing up in D.C., when he was at his house, Marvin showed Bobby what his father would always do when his mother was working somewhere and Bobby saw Marvin, Sr. put on stockings, skirts, a blouse and a wig. According to Alberta Gay, Marvin's mother, Marvin, Sr. "loved soft things".

Timmy84 said:

aardvark15 said:

Neither did I. I still can't believe that now

According to Bobby Taylor of the Vancouvers, who was friends with Marvin growing up in D.C., when he was at his house, Marvin showed Bobby what his father would always do when his mother was working somewhere and Bobby saw Marvin, Sr. put on stockings, skirts, a blouse and a wig. According to Alberta Gay, Marvin's mother, Marvin, Sr. "loved soft things".

Wait so did Alberta know about this?

Timmy84 said:

GoldDolphin said:

I have the same feeling and the cause of death must def would have been the drugs. So sad. Gone too soon. It's so sad that all these greats have these tragic stories...

Back in the late '60s, probably after Tammi had her collapse and was struggling with her brain tumor, he had a fight with Anna and tried to kill himself. It was talked about briefly on his E! True Hollywood Story that aired back in 1998. He had the gun in his hand and Berry Gordy, Sr. banged on the door to let him in, when Marvin finally let him in, his father-in-law convinced him to drop the gun.

Yeah I've heard that from people, but didnt know how true that story was? I was a child back in 98 so I havent seen that, would love to see if it's on youtube though. That's so sad . Somehow I still think the drugs would have killed him tho. Just thinking about it makes me sad ...

aardvark15 said:

Timmy84 said:

According to Bobby Taylor of the Vancouvers, who was friends with Marvin growing up in D.C., when he was at his house, Marvin showed Bobby what his father would always do when his mother was working somewhere and Bobby saw Marvin, Sr. put on stockings, skirts, a blouse and a wig. According to Alberta Gay, Marvin's mother, Marvin, Sr. "loved soft things".

Wait so did Alberta know about this?

Yeah she did. I heard Marvin Sr. was real abusive not only to his kids but to her as well. I think she was scared of him but didn't wanna leave him because she feared no one would take care of "all those kids" as the old school folks would say. Also Marvin Sr. didn't wanna raise her out-of-wedlock son, Michael (born before she met Marvin Sr.), because he didn't wanna raise no one's baby. Marvin's mother was originally from Rocky Mount, NC and the pregnancy was a reason she moved to DC. Marvin Sr. of course moved out of Kentucky to DC because his father (and Marvin's grandfather) George was just as abusive to him, his siblings and mother and because he wanted to become a minister of the House of God. Most of Marvin Sr.'s siblings were real messed up too. A few of them were either gay or bisexual, which caused George Gay to kick them out of the house, and it's a rumor one of them molested Marvin when he was 15. Marvin Sr. also would make suggestions that Alberta had been cheating on him with another man resulting in Marvin Jr.'s birth but it was clear Marvin was his biological son. Then he would tell Marvin "you're not my son, too much of the devil in you". Alberta would say that Marvin Sr. tried to make her feel guilty for "loving" Marvin saying that her son "wasn't too old before he understood that". Marvin Sr. was a mess.

[Edited 6/25/12 16:23pm]

So before What's Going On then Marvin was totally clean & not to many issues minus the Motown stuff & his dads approval?

He seemed so happy & upbeat when him & Tammy did there songs he was a good looking guy and he had a very strong face(in a good way)

But looking at those pics with his big smiles to... The Sexual Healing

He look's so worn out here

This is the way i always think of when i see Marvin though is this pic

Gunsnhalen said:

So before What's Going On then Marvin was totally clean & not to many issues minus the Motown stuff & his dads approval?

He seemed so happy & upbeat when him & Tammy did there songs he was a good looking guy and he had a very strong face(in a good way)

But looking at those pics with his big smiles to... The Sexual Healing

He look's so worn out here

This is the way i always think of when i see Marvin though is this pic

Marvin was clean for much of his adolescence but he began smoking cigarettes at 16. He didn't start smoking weed until he was 21 and for most of the sixties into 1973 he was a hardcore pot smoker. This guy needed a reefer to get creative in the '70s, this is why there were hiccups during the first recording sessions of Diana & Marvin because Marvin stubbornly didn't wanna put it out (Diana Ross was preggo at the time with Rhonda). But I don't think he started fooling around with cocaine until right after the release of What's Going On or after the release of Trouble Man or even Let's Get It On. Marvin's timeline into his introduction/addiction to cocaine is sketchy.

GoldDolphin said:

Timmy84 said:

Back in the late '60s, probably after Tammi had her collapse and was struggling with her brain tumor, he had a fight with Anna and tried to kill himself. It was talked about briefly on his E! True Hollywood Story that aired back in 1998. He had the gun in his hand and Berry Gordy, Sr. banged on the door to let him in, when Marvin finally let him in, his father-in-law convinced him to drop the gun.

Yeah I've heard that from people, but didnt know how true that story was? I was a child back in 98 so I havent seen that, would love to see if it's on youtube though. That's so sad . Somehow I still think the drugs would have killed him tho. Just thinking about it makes me sad ...

I added that part in an early version of his Wikipedia page but got a "citation needed" tag so I erased it. I might put a link once I find the source again.

Timmy84 said:

GoldDolphin said:

Yeah I've heard that from people, but didnt know how true that story was? I was a child back in 98 so I havent seen that, would love to see if it's on youtube though. That's so sad . Somehow I still think the drugs would have killed him tho. Just thinking about it makes me sad ...

I added that part in an early version of his Wikipedia page but got a "citation needed" tag so I erased it. I might put a link once I find the source again.

Yeah, I googled and didnt find anything. Just that it aired Jan 28th , 1998. It'd be good if E! would upload some of their old stuff on youtube...

GoldDolphin said:

Timmy84 said:

I added that part in an early version of his Wikipedia page but got a "citation needed" tag so I erased it. I might put a link once I find the source again.

Yeah, I googled and didnt find anything. Just that it aired Jan 28th , 1998. It'd be good if E! would upload some of their old stuff on youtube...

Yeah, it's a shame that his VH-1 Legends episode ain't been seen in years either. VH-1 Classic needs to bring that back for nostalgia's sake.

I shouldnt have watched this documentary, almost made me cry and now I'm all emotional... You're missed Marvin <3

Timmy84 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

So before What's Going On then Marvin was totally clean & not to many issues minus the Motown stuff & his dads approval?

He seemed so happy & upbeat when him & Tammy did there songs he was a good looking guy and he had a very strong face(in a good way)

But looking at those pics with his big smiles to... The Sexual Healing

He look's so worn out here

This is the way i always think of when i see Marvin though is this pic

Marvin was clean for much of his adolescence but he began smoking cigarettes at 16. He didn't start smoking weed until he was 21 and for most of the sixties into 1973 he was a hardcore pot smoker. This guy needed a reefer to get creative in the '70s, this is why there were hiccups during the first recording sessions of Diana & Marvin because Marvin stubbornly didn't wanna put it out (Diana Ross was preggo at the time with Rhonda). But I don't think he started fooling around with cocaine until right after the release of What's Going On or after the release of Trouble Man or even Let's Get It On. Marvin's timeline into his introduction/addiction to cocaine is sketchy.

Gotcha.. and i forget all about the Diana/Marvin album. I have it, but of his his it's one i rarely listen to. It to me was just very underwhelimg consedering who they are and how well the album could have been.

What do you think of here, my dear?

I know it flopped but it's actually my 3rd favorite Marvin album... something of a cult classic. I really dig his lyrics on that one.

Gunsnhalen said:

He seemed so happy & upbeat when him & Tammi did there songs

According to a book about The Temptations, she was into cocaine and introduced David Ruffin to it.

Will watch tomorrow.

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

Marvin was clean for much of his adolescence but he began smoking cigarettes at 16. He didn't start smoking weed until he was 21 and for most of the sixties into 1973 he was a hardcore pot smoker. This guy needed a reefer to get creative in the '70s, this is why there were hiccups during the first recording sessions of Diana & Marvin because Marvin stubbornly didn't wanna put it out (Diana Ross was preggo at the time with Rhonda). But I don't think he started fooling around with cocaine until right after the release of What's Going On or after the release of Trouble Man or even Let's Get It On. Marvin's timeline into his introduction/addiction to cocaine is sketchy.

Gotcha.. and i forget all about the Diana/Marvin album. I have it, but of his his it's one i rarely listen to. It to me was just very underwhelimg consedering who they are and how well the album could have been.

What do you think of here, my dear?

I know it flopped but it's actually my 3rd favorite Marvin album... something of a cult classic. I really dig his lyrics on that one.

Here, My Dear is one of the greatest albums of all time to me.

MickyDolenz said:

Gunsnhalen said:

He seemed so happy & upbeat when him & Tammi did there songs

According to a book about The Temptations, she was into cocaine and introduced David Ruffin to it.

Interesting.

Timmy84 said: