brooksie said:

thesexofit...Motown didn't promote it very well, but they never seemed eager to spend any but the smallest amount of $$$$ on El an 'em. For the life of me, I don't get it. No videos until RoTN for the group and none afterwards, a few vids for El, and most all very little push for the De Barge "brand"! Both the group and El could have been much biggerin their Motown days if they had given them the right push, at the right time, and in the right directions.

Just my take tho.

[Edited 6/27/12 21:43pm]

Motown by the mid 80's was prettty much in dire straits (and they sold the company a few years after El's solo album dropped). So little surprise they dropped the ball on the marketing of El's solo record, despite the lavish and high tech production the album has. I guess you don't like the AOR songs like "hear it from my heart", but that song could of been a big hit I feel.

His "Gemini" album seemed lost in the shuffle aswell, though El did some tight production on that album, even with some very good hired session musicians helping out LOL. Though a few of the tracks off "gemini" sounded abit dated like the album was probably meant to be released about a year or so earlier? For 1989, some of it sounded more 1987 to me. Motown was a mess by that time, and it was clear they had no idea what to do with him.

In some respects Chico's much lower profile Motown album "Kiss serious" is much more "honest" to the Debarge name. That album has some very funky cuts that El or the group could of done. Brownmark did some great cuts on that one. Chico's first album, much like El's and Bunny's, was alot more poppy. I don't like Bunny's first album, though a couple of the cuts are good though, including of course "save the best for me", which has a hook that stays in my head for days.

thesexofit said:

brooksie said:

thesexofit...Motown didn't promote it very well, but they never seemed eager to spend any but the smallest amount of $$$$ on El an 'em. For the life of me, I don't get it. No videos until RoTN for the group and none afterwards, a few vids for El, and most all very little push for the De Barge "brand"! Both the group and El could have been much biggerin their Motown days if they had given them the right push, at the right time, and in the right directions.

Just my take tho.

[Edited 6/27/12 21:43pm]

Motown by the mid 80's was prettty much in dire straits (and they sold the company a few years after El's solo album dropped). So little surprise they dropped the ball on the marketing of El's solo record, despite the lavish and high tech production the album has. I guess you don't like the AOR songs like "hear it from my heart", but that song could of been a big hit I feel.

His "Gemini" album seemed lost in the shuffle aswell, though El did some tight production on that album, even with some very good hired session musicians helping out LOL. Though a few of the tracks off "gemini" sounded abit dated like the album was probably meant to be released about a year or so earlier? For 1989, some of it sounded more 1987 to me. Motown was a mess by that time, and it was clear they had no idea what to do with him.

In some respects Chico's much lower profile Motown album "Kiss serious" is much more "honest" to the Debarge name. That album has some very funky cuts that El or the group could of done. Brownmark did some great cuts on that one. Chico's first album, much like El's and Bunny's, was alot more poppy. I don't like Bunny's first album, though a couple of the cuts are good though, including of course "save the best for me", which has a hook that stays in my head for days.

Whenever Motown (read Berry ) got into movie/tv production, the music side always suffered. The De Barges were unfortunate to come along at a time when Berry and Suzanne were focusing on building up the movie/tv side...that's where they put lots of their attention in the early-mid 80s. They only got the RoTN vid because of "The Last Dragon" film, so you see what that was about. Berry was getting tired of the music side too...that was also a major problem. Motown during his ownership (1958- 1988) always rose or fell based on his interest level for the music, from what I see.

I like AOR...as you said, El coulda had a big hit there.

The whole Gemini thing was a bit of a disaster....it did get caught in the sell off shuffle. You're probably right about the release being delayed and it does sound like it. It's a good album to listen to on the whole tho. Too bad it costs a fortune and is so rare to find these days. Bunny's album I haven't sat down and heard in full....so I can't really offer an opinion. I'm just shocked by the AWFUL cover art it had...wow, way to make a gorg woman look awkward!

Can I say it's nice to have a fellow De Barge stan here? I was beginning to feel all alone!

[Edited 6/27/12 22:14pm]

thesexofit said:

MickyDolenz said:

That's your quote (post #10), that's why I posted the videos. My cousin has that album. I only have the DeBarge albums with El and El's solo records.

I just watched the Punky Brewster clip again. Bobby's name is in the show credits.

[Edited 6/27/12 21:29pm]

Lord have mercy. Just admit you were wrong. Chico was not on "Bad boys". I thought there was a small chance he was, but the "Punky brewster" clips pretty much proved he wasn't. As I have said, I have the album and whilst the credits do not state who is in the group, I dont see Chico's name anywhere. And Bobby's name is on the album credits so of course why wouldn't Bobby's name show up on the "Punky Brewster" credits.

Heres your quote and I have proved you wrong and have explained why:-

"^^Chico did later do an album with the group, minus Bunny & El."

I did say I watched the video again and saw Bobby's name in the show credits. I just looked up the album and it said that Bobby sang on and produced the record, so you were correct. I've never actually heard the album, the last photo looked like Chico to me when I saw it at my cousin's at the time. I saw the Soul Train episode on TV, but I thought Bobby was just doing a guest appearance, and not actually in the group. I knew the first 3 on the album cover were James, Mark, and Randy.

MickyDolenz said:

thesexofit said:

Lord have mercy. Just admit you were wrong. Chico was not on "Bad boys". I thought there was a small chance he was, but the "Punky brewster" clips pretty much proved he wasn't. As I have said, I have the album and whilst the credits do not state who is in the group, I dont see Chico's name anywhere. And Bobby's name is on the album credits so of course why wouldn't Bobby's name show up on the "Punky Brewster" credits.

Heres your quote and I have proved you wrong and have explained why:-

"^^Chico did later do an album with the group, minus Bunny & El."

I did say I watched the video again and saw Bobby's name in the show credits. I just looked up the album and it said that Bobby sang on and produced the record, so you were correct. I've never actually heard the album, the last photo looked like Chico to me when I saw it at my cousin's at the time. I saw the Soul Train episode on TV, but I thought Bobby was just doing a guest appearance, and not actually in the group. I knew the first 3 on the album cover were James, Mark, and Randy.

Bobby was apart of the "Bad Boys" De Barge era. In fact, he did many of the leads. He's pic'd on the cover of the album...at the far right, upside down!

The group went back to being a quartet MINUS Bunny or El. (When De Barge 1st signed to Motown and did their 1st album, they did so minus James)

Chico was always a solo artist.

[Edited 6/27/12 22:32pm]

brooksie said:

thesexofit said:

Motown by the mid 80's was prettty much in dire straits (and they sold the company a few years after El's solo album dropped). So little surprise they dropped the ball on the marketing of El's solo record, despite the lavish and high tech production the album has. I guess you don't like the AOR songs like "hear it from my heart", but that song could of been a big hit I feel.

His "Gemini" album seemed lost in the shuffle aswell, though El did some tight production on that album, even with some very good hired session musicians helping out LOL. Though a few of the tracks off "gemini" sounded abit dated like the album was probably meant to be released about a year or so earlier? For 1989, some of it sounded more 1987 to me. Motown was a mess by that time, and it was clear they had no idea what to do with him.

In some respects Chico's much lower profile Motown album "Kiss serious" is much more "honest" to the Debarge name. That album has some very funky cuts that El or the group could of done. Brownmark did some great cuts on that one. Chico's first album, much like El's and Bunny's, was alot more poppy. I don't like Bunny's first album, though a couple of the cuts are good though, including of course "save the best for me", which has a hook that stays in my head for days.

Whenever Motown (read Berry ) got into movie/tv production, the music side always suffered. The De Barges were unfortunate to come along at a time when Berry and Suzanne were focusing on building up the movie/tv side...that's where they put lots of their attention in the early-mid 80s. They only got the RoTN vid because of "The Last Dragon" film, so you see what that was about. Berry was getting tired of the music side too...that was also a major problem. Motown during his ownership (1958- 1988) always rose or fell based on his interest level for the music, from what I see.

I like AOR...as you said, El coulda had a big hit there.

The whole Gemini thing was a bit of a disaster....it did get caught in the sell off shuffle. You're probably right about the release being delayed and it does sound like it. It's a good album to listen to on the whole tho. Too bad it costs a fortune and is so rare to find these days. Bunny's album I haven't sat down and heard in full....so I can't really offer an opinion. I'm just shocked by the AWFUL cover art it had...wow, way to make a gorg woman look awkward!

Can I say it's nice to have a fellow De Barge stan here? I was beginning to feel all alone!

[Edited 6/27/12 22:14pm]

Iam more of a fan of 80's pop music, and Debarge and their spin offs made some decent pop music LOL. And your not missing much on Bunny's album, though it was weird how Debarge used her song "dance all night" for their later album (I prefer their version).

Iam a big fan of Chico's motown albums too (even if he is not LOL). And yeah some of El's "gemini" sounds like pop, whilst others sound more rnb, making for a sort of odd album that is surprisenly cohesive, even if for 1989, it sounded abit dated. Despite most of that album being produced and written with El at the helm, if seems Motown still had to bring in outside writers and producers for a few of the cut, thus still not totally trusting him on his own.

Having said that, one of those cuts "After you", written by the same group of people who wrote the catchy "Prime time" for the group, is decent though. Big fan of those 3 songwriters. One of them, Glen Ballard, went on to write with Alanis Morrisette in the 90's....

El's voice can made a medicore song into a good or even great one. A gift all great singers have.

"Real love" is my cut though, and the 12" was good too. So nice to still hear a guitar solo in rnb/pop at that time too. Shame that factor is non existant now in rnb.

Like the sparing use of the vocoder. It's not overboard. I guess the song could be criticised for being over produced, but thats fine by me.

I like the break into the second verse

("control")

"CON-TROL"

MickyDolenz said:

thesexofit said:

Lord have mercy. Just admit you were wrong. Chico was not on "Bad boys". I thought there was a small chance he was, but the "Punky brewster" clips pretty much proved he wasn't. As I have said, I have the album and whilst the credits do not state who is in the group, I dont see Chico's name anywhere. And Bobby's name is on the album credits so of course why wouldn't Bobby's name show up on the "Punky Brewster" credits.

Heres your quote and I have proved you wrong and have explained why:-

"^^Chico did later do an album with the group, minus Bunny & El."

I did say I watched the video again and saw Bobby's name in the show credits. I just looked up the album and it said that Bobby sang on and produced the record, so you were correct. I've never actually heard the album, the last photo looked like Chico to me when I saw it at my cousin's at the time. I saw the Soul Train episode on TV, but I thought Bobby was just doing a guest appearance, and not actually in the group. I knew the first 3 on the album cover were James, Mark, and Randy.

Thankyou LOL

Dare I admit that I'm partial to "Make You Mine"...El's really letting his freak flag fly there!

He later expands on the theme w/ the "In the Storm" lp. Yum..,

brooksie said:

Dare I admit that I'm partial to "Make You Mine"...El's really letting his freak flag fly there!

He later expands on the theme w/ the "In the Storm" lp. Yum..,

Yep, I like that too. I need to re-listen to "in the storm" again. I seem to remember that album being more "grown" then his previous albums. And his "heart, mind and soul" album needs to be dug out aswell.

thesexofit said:

brooksie said:

Dare I admit that I'm partial to "Make You Mine"...El's really letting his freak flag fly there!

He later expands on the theme w/ the "In the Storm" lp. Yum..,

Yep, I like that too. I need to re-listen to "in the storm" again. I seem to remember that album being more "grown" then his previous albums. And his "heart, mind and soul" album needs to be dug out aswell.

You will LOVE both of them....the musicianship and voice is awesome on both. Given the time period...1992 and 1994 respectively, you do hear some hip hop/New Jack style stuff there on few cuts, but other than that plenty of Elgasms shine thru!

"In The Strom" is incredibly sensual and sexual. "Heart Mind Soul" has alovely andsuper hot vid for "Can't Get Enough"...be prepared!

Have you heard his stuff w/ DJ Quik?