My only issue with MJ was allowing himself to be manipulated, time and time again. I never thought he was guilty. NEVER. The problem that I had and still have with him is being so naive. You can all the way back to 93. Why are you even talking to Oprah in the first place? I know it was done to open up and clear up rumors but you can't open up. It makes you vulnerable to attacks. Latoya went around for years trashing her own family, talking shit about pretty much all of them. And then she comes back and expects the media to let it go. She put wild shit out there. She created drama and the public latched onto it and milked it for all it was worth. You can't have it both ways. You can't say my father molested me and my sister one day and then switch the story the next day and say, "Oh I didn't mean it." Like I said, once people have a story, they have a story. The same thing happened with Bashir. That was Michael's fault. He allowed these slimeballs in his house, he allowed them to take advantage of him. He allowed it. There's no two ways around it. If I'm an artist or a performer, if something isn't about my work whether it be music or a movie or whatever, then nothing else needs to be discussed. NOTHING. Don't say anything and then it wouldn't be known. It's that simple.

And as far as the family goes, they do the same thing. I'll say it again, if I was Katherine, I wouldn't let Oprah in my house for a damn thing. She'd be uninvited - to everything. But she opens the door for her and wants to sit down and chat with her. It's unbelievable.

Now I can agree with that about Mj.Rest his soul...

mjscarousal said:

TD3 said:

I will agree Oprah's Next Chapter is a ploy in trying to save a network I don't think will get out of its talespin. What beef was there to squash? If they didn't like each other, so be it. Does Ms. Whinfrey go around running after everyone who doesn't like her? Is he someone you'd give a rats ass if he didn't like you? I was never a fan of her show because most of the topics she covered didn't interest me, though she had her moments. As far as her opinions on Black people using the word Nigger/Nigga she was spot on. What she said about Michael... truth hurts.

As far as Michael's children giving interviews? I think those children should be left alone; if the want to speak to the media about life with their father maybe it would be wise to wait until they're adults. (IMHO)

You ought to be ashamed of yourself and torn of your MJ fan title... How dare you say truth hurts and she sat up there and called Michael a pedophile????

Oprah is a big, greed driven fake uncle tom bitch who only cares about ratings and herself...

What are you smoking?

She basically trashed Fifty, and all the rappers Im SO GLAD Andre and Ice Cube called her ass out for that shit.. Oprah is a two timing bitch and thinks people forgets her shit... she even said she wanted to be white... ugh I cant stand her guts!

[Edited 6/12/12 20:28pm]

There's nothing to rip because I'm not a fan of MJ's to that extent not to know if it wasn't for his fame, name, and money... the way he conducted himself around little boys wouldn't have been tolerated. As I said many times before on this forum; Michael's behavior as a grown ass man wasn't right, normal, or proper. Period. It' a shame that people looked the other way and have continued to make excuses for Michael. I know your opinion about this subject, I guess we shall have to agree to disagree.

---------------------------

[Edited 6/13/12 10:46am]

musicjunky318 said:

My only issue with MJ was allowing himself to be manipulated, time and time again. I never thought he was guilty. NEVER. The problem that I had and still have with him is being so naive. You can all the way back to 93. Why are you even talking to Oprah in the first place? I know it was done to open up and clear up rumors but you can't open up. It makes you vulnerable to attacks. Latoya went around for years trashing her own family, talking shit about pretty much all of them. And then she comes back and expects the media to let it go. She put wild shit out there. She created drama and the public latched onto it and milked it for all it was worth. You can't have it both ways. You can't say my father molested me and my sister one day and then switch the story the next day and say, "Oh I didn't mean it." Like I said, once people have a story, they have a story. The same thing happened with Bashir. That was Michael's fault. He allowed these slimeballs in his house, he allowed them to take advantage of him. He allowed it. There's no two ways around it. If I'm an artist or a performer, if something isn't about my work whether it be music or a movie or whatever, then nothing else needs to be discussed. NOTHING. Don't say anything and then it wouldn't be known. It's that simple.

And as far as the family goes, they do the same thing. I'll say it again, if I was Katherine, I wouldn't let Oprah in my house for a damn thing. She'd be uninvited - to everything. But she opens the door for her and wants to sit down and chat with her. It's unbelievable.

i agree with your entire post, particularly the highlighted points. i only saw 5 min. of the oprah interview and i turned it off b/c i could see then and there she was one, a phony, and two, there is nothing that she wanted to talk about with mj as a PERSON or MUSICIAN, she was only interested in the gossip and tabloid stuff. i don't know why people think oprah is so deep; she's about as shallow a person as i've ever seen.

when i heard about the interview with bashir, i thought it would be different b/c he had seemed so objective when he interviewed princess diana. he asked her questions about her marriage but they were done with a certain tact. maybe mj thought the same thing about him; however, after oprah, i would have been more circumspect. besides, it was especially clear from the get-go that bashir wasn't anything like the person he had pretended to be when he was interviewing diana. he was snide, rude and phony, just like oprah. he would have been put out of my house after the first day.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

What open aired remarks & false things did she say? I have seen everything she was on. To me she spoke the truth..I never seen her throw MJ under the bus.Only when she said before he passed that he deliberately changed his vocals on "Scream" to make her vocals sound weak. But Jimmy Jam confirmed that..

The whole intervention talk and the discussion of prescription drugs when that had NOTHING to do with how and why he died.

Janet is talking about Michaels use of prescription drugs back in the 90s but that had nothing to do with how he died. The autospy reported there were NO PRESCIPTION drugs found in his body and he died of Propofol.

She talked about interventions and couldnt recall when they took place and what went on. She said open ended remarks that made it so the audience could interpret it their own way. She also allowed Oprah to manipulate her answers and the questions she asked.

What does Scream have to do with this? Michael is a stronger vocalist than Janet in general overall. On Scream, they both were singing hard. Michaels entire vocal style changed during that era in general. Janet has weak vocals in general so whether he purposely did or did not do that really doesnt make a difference.

TD3 said:

mjscarousal said:

You ought to be ashamed of yourself and torn of your MJ fan title... How dare you say truth hurts and she sat up there and called Michael a pedophile????

Oprah is a big, greed driven fake uncle tom bitch who only cares about ratings and herself...

What are you smoking?

She basically trashed Fifty, and all the rappers Im SO GLAD Andre and Ice Cube called her ass out for that shit.. Oprah is a two timing bitch and thinks people forgets her shit... she even said she wanted to be white... ugh I cant stand her guts!

[Edited 6/12/12 20:28pm]

There's nothing to rip because I'm not a fan of MJ's to that extent not to know if it wasn't for his fame, name, and money... the way he conducted himself around little boys wouldn't have been tolerated. As I said many times before on this forum; Michael's behavior as a grown ass man wasn't right, normal, or proper. Period. It' a shame that people looked the other way and have continued to make excuses for Michael. I know your opinion about this subject, I guess we shall have to agree to disagree.

---------------------------

[Edited 6/13/12 10:46am]

I am not making excuses for Michael and while God knows I love him, I know he was not perfect. NO ONE IS.

Michael didnt have a childhood as you know already thats why he loved children. Im not going to sit here and say I agree with sleeping with children is proper for a grown man to do. However, that doesnt mean he harmed them or did inappropiate things with them. Peoples perspective on this isnt really logical..

If someone was a child molestor do you honestly think they would openly and publicly talk about what they do with children if that is what they were really doing?????????

No they wouldnt..

Michael was naive, and child like. He didnt have a childhood so he was trying to re live it through children. I dont agree with the way he did but it was innocent. I also think its unfair how people stilll want to call him a pedophile when he wasnt and was proven innocent in a court of law. You believe otherwise, thats your business but I resent how Oprah tried to manipulate the public with her infleunce by implying Michael was a child molestor before the verdict was in.

kibbles said:

musicjunky318 said:

My only issue with MJ was allowing himself to be manipulated, time and time again. I never thought he was guilty. NEVER. The problem that I had and still have with him is being so naive. You can all the way back to 93. Why are you even talking to Oprah in the first place? I know it was done to open up and clear up rumors but you can't open up. It makes you vulnerable to attacks. Latoya went around for years trashing her own family, talking shit about pretty much all of them. And then she comes back and expects the media to let it go. She put wild shit out there. She created drama and the public latched onto it and milked it for all it was worth. You can't have it both ways. You can't say my father molested me and my sister one day and then switch the story the next day and say, "Oh I didn't mean it." Like I said, once people have a story, they have a story. The same thing happened with Bashir. That was Michael's fault. He allowed these slimeballs in his house, he allowed them to take advantage of him. He allowed it. There's no two ways around it. If I'm an artist or a performer, if something isn't about my work whether it be music or a movie or whatever, then nothing else needs to be discussed. NOTHING. Don't say anything and then it wouldn't be known. It's that simple.

And as far as the family goes, they do the same thing. I'll say it again, if I was Katherine, I wouldn't let Oprah in my house for a damn thing. She'd be uninvited - to everything. But she opens the door for her and wants to sit down and chat with her. It's unbelievable.

i agree with your entire post, particularly the highlighted points. i only saw 5 min. of the oprah interview and i turned it off b/c i could see then and there she was one, a phony, and two, there is nothing that she wanted to talk about with mj as a PERSON or MUSICIAN, she was only interested in the gossip and tabloid stuff. i don't know why people think oprah is so deep; she's about as shallow a person as i've ever seen.

when i heard about the interview with bashir, i thought it would be different b/c he had seemed so objective when he interviewed princess diana. he asked her questions about her marriage but they were done with a certain tact. maybe mj thought the same thing about him; however, after oprah, i would have been more circumspect. besides, it was especially clear from the get-go that bashir wasn't anything like the person he had pretended to be when he was interviewing diana. he was snide, rude and phony, just like oprah. he would have been put out of my house after the first day.

WELL SAID.

musicjunky318 said:

My only issue with MJ was allowing himself to be manipulated, time and time again. I never thought he was guilty. NEVER. The problem that I had and still have with him is being so naive. You can all the way back to 93. Why are you even talking to Oprah in the first place? I know it was done to open up and clear up rumors but you can't open up. It makes you vulnerable to attacks. Latoya went around for years trashing her own family, talking shit about pretty much all of them. And then she comes back and expects the media to let it go. She put wild shit out there. She created drama and the public latched onto it and milked it for all it was worth. You can't have it both ways. You can't say my father molested me and my sister one day and then switch the story the next day and say, "Oh I didn't mean it." Like I said, once people have a story, they have a story. The same thing happened with Bashir. That was Michael's fault. He allowed these slimeballs in his house, he allowed them to take advantage of him. He allowed it. There's no two ways around it. If I'm an artist or a performer, if something isn't about my work whether it be music or a movie or whatever, then nothing else needs to be discussed. NOTHING. Don't say anything and then it wouldn't be known. It's that simple.

And as far as the family goes, they do the same thing. I'll say it again, if I was Katherine, I wouldn't let Oprah in my house for a damn thing. She'd be uninvited - to everything. But she opens the door for her and wants to sit down and chat with her. It's unbelievable.

Musicjunky GREAT POST! I agree with everything!!

mjscarousal said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

What open aired remarks & false things did she say? I have seen everything she was on. To me she spoke the truth..I never seen her throw MJ under the bus.Only when she said before he passed that he deliberately changed his vocals on "Scream" to make her vocals sound weak. But Jimmy Jam confirmed that..

The whole intervention talk and the discussion of prescription drugs when that had NOTHING to do with how and why he died.

Janet is talking about Michaels use of prescription drugs back in the 90s but that had nothing to do with how he died. The autospy reported there were NO PRESCIPTION drugs found in his body and he died of Propofol.

She talked about interventions and couldnt recall when they took place and what went on. She said open ended remarks that made it so the audience could interpret it their own way. She also allowed Oprah to manipulate her answers and the questions she asked.

What does Scream have to do with this? Michael is a stronger vocalist than Janet in general overall. On Scream, they both were singing hard. Michaels entire vocal style changed during that era in general. Janet has weak vocals in general so whether he purposely did or did not do that really doesnt make a difference.

I still don't see how that can be interpreted as open aired remarks or saying false things. Its obvious MJ had an prescription drug addiction problem. The only reason he started using Propofol is because the other prescription drugs we're not strong enough for him anymore to put him to sleep. I don't know what autopsy report U read. But the one I read he did have other prescription drugs in his system but not at a alarming amount to cause death. Plus what is the matter with Janet discussing that anyway? It is her brother not yours..

The only reason I brought up "Scream" boo boo. Was to set a example of the only thing I ever heard Janet say negative about her brother. Mike was fiercely competitive. Even to the point of trying to outshine his own equally talented sister Janet..Whether she had weaker vocals or not still didn't stop her from topping the charts & having success rivaling her brothers...

[Edited 6/13/12 12:40pm]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

mjscarousal said:

The whole intervention talk and the discussion of prescription drugs when that had NOTHING to do with how and why he died.

Janet is talking about Michaels use of prescription drugs back in the 90s but that had nothing to do with how he died. The autospy reported there were NO PRESCIPTION drugs found in his body and he died of Propofol.

She talked about interventions and couldnt recall when they took place and what went on. She said open ended remarks that made it so the audience could interpret it their own way. She also allowed Oprah to manipulate her answers and the questions she asked.

What does Scream have to do with this? Michael is a stronger vocalist than Janet in general overall. On Scream, they both were singing hard. Michaels entire vocal style changed during that era in general. Janet has weak vocals in general so whether he purposely did or did not do that really doesnt make a difference.

I still don't see how that can be interpreted as open aired remarks or saying false things. Its obvious MJ had an prescription drug addiction problem. The only reason he started using Propofol is because the other prescription drugs we're not strong enough for him anymore to put him to sleep. I don't know what autopsy report U read. But the one I read he did have other prescription drugs in his system but not at a alarming amount to cause death. Plus what is the matter with Janet discussing that anyway? It is her brother not yours..

The only reason I brought up "Scream" boo boo. Was to set a example of the only thing I ever heard Janet say negative about her brother. Mike was fiercely competitive. Even to the point of trying to outshine his own equally talented sister Janet..Whether she had weaker vocals or not still didn't stop her from topping the charts & having success rivaling her brothers...

Now you know thats a cruck of bullshit OR YOU JUST DONT KNOW HOW TO READ

Murray had given him other anethetic drugs on top of Propofol which he was overdosed on.. but there were NO Prescription drugs found in his system

And no Michael was not my relative but that isnt going to stop me from giving my opinion. Janet claimed to have been close to Michael when she really wasnt and Michael is even recorded saying this on tape that he wasnt close to Janet.

I cant specifically recall the open end remarks she made but they mostly centered around the prescription drug use and yes I do find issue with someone bringing a issue up that had NOTHING to do with the cause of death whether its a sister or not it. Its never right to inaccurately present something to your own interpretation and just because your a sister doesnt suddenly make it okay. Janet was wrong to say alot of things she did especially since her brother couldnt defend himself. Even when Oprah interviewed her and Tyler Perry she even allowed Tyler Perry to speak on her behalf regarding Michael!! Like she cant speak on her own flesh and blood.

Alot of what she said was very media driven and she clearly showed that she didnt not know what was really going on with him leading up to his tour, on top of other things..she implied that Michael was a drug addict and that he died of presciption drugs when that wasnt the cause of his death.

And I would think since she was Michaels sister that she would take the time to read the austopy instead of formulating her own opinion on little information she thinks she knows about her brother. She seemed to blame Michael for his own death and didnt once acknowledge Conrad Murry and his role in how he died which was the primarily reason why he died.

Propofol is a anethetic, you cant get addicted to it, it puts you to sleep. A person isnt conscious of it or ther surroundings. Im tired of all this bullshit and the lies. Im not stating that Michael was perfect but Janet definitly could have defended her brother more instead of throwing him under the bus like she did with bullshit.

I never insisted that Janet couldnt be susccessful or etc. But you made that statement like Janet is a great strong vocal singer when she isnt. Even without trying Michael would still be superior to Janet when it comes to vocals which makes me hard to believe that bullshit.

Im not going to continue to go back and forth with you because I might end up cussing you out.. think delusionally what you want to think or just roll your eyes thats what your good at.

[Edited 6/13/12 12:20pm]

[Edited 6/13/12 12:26pm]

I think Paris was mainly interviewed to bring interest from A-list stars and film studios for her upcoming movie. The producer of her film has acted desperate and very delusional, so it wouldn't surprise me if he convinced Katehrine to set up this interview hoping Hollywood will want in on his project.

yeah, i have to say i don't understand janet's criticism that mj was purposely trying to 'outsing' her, either. to my ears, his vocals on 'scream' don't sound different than say, his vocals on 'bad'. if he was attempting to give his vocals more 'power', given the underlying lyrics of the song, i think that's in keeping with the overall emotions that he was trying to convey.

janet's entitled to her opinion, but um, i certainly don't think that mj would have to 'try to outsing her'. he just can. this isn't to say she hasn't been successful, that's an obvious point that no one is trying to argue. like madonna and others, she has had lots of hits, in spite of her lack of vocal prowess.

kibbles said:

yeah, i have to say i don't understand janet's criticism that mj was purposely trying to 'outsing' her, either. to my ears, his vocals on 'scream' don't sound different than say, his vocals on 'bad'. if he was attempting to give his vocals more 'power', given the underlying lyrics of the song, i think that's in keeping with the overall emotions that he was trying to convey.

janet's entitled to her opinion, but um, i certainly don't think that mj would have to 'try to outsing her'. he just can. this isn't to say she hasn't been successful, that's an obvious point that no one is trying to argue. like madonna and others, she has had lots of hits, in spite of her lack of vocal prowess.

Ive always thought she was semi jealous of Michael's talent and success likewise with the rest of the siblings. For her to even make a comment like that is rather immature and ridiclous but like you said everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Who wouldn't be in awe of Michael's career? It really says something when Janet Jackson is only the second most successful. This is a woman with 5 multi-platinum albums and over 100 million in sales and it seems like a spec when compared to her older brother.

mookie said:

I think Paris was mainly interviewed to bring interest from A-list stars and film studios for her upcoming movie. The producer of her film has acted desperate and very delusional, so it wouldn't surprise me if he convinced Katehrine to set up this interview hoping Hollywood will want in on his project.

well, as they say, water seeks its own level. oprah, too, must be desperate as hell to be interviewing a teenager whose father she has nothing but contempt for in her delusional hope that paris would bring her some ratings success. if the posters on this board are representative, i would say it was a big time 'fail'.

no a-list anyone is going to touch this project with a ten foot pole. paris is a girl who we wouldn't even be hearing from if her father were here. mj is her only claim to fame. there is no indication that this kid has any talent. for all we know, she could be just like her talentless wannabe singer cousin, randy's girl whose name escapes me at the moment. also, the jacksons' tacky and greedy reputation precedes them, so what legit person would ever do business with them? (the fact that they're in business with this so-called producer speaks volumes.)

i'm sure that many of legit people knew mj, and out of respect for him, would never want to attach themselves to this project, knowing that he wouldn't want his daughter exploited this way.

kibbles said:

mookie said:

I think Paris was mainly interviewed to bring interest from A-list stars and film studios for her upcoming movie. The producer of her film has acted desperate and very delusional, so it wouldn't surprise me if he convinced Katehrine to set up this interview hoping Hollywood will want in on his project.

well, as they say, water seeks its own level. oprah, too, must be desperate as hell to be interviewing a teenager whose father she has nothing but contempt for in her delusional hope that paris would bring her some ratings success. if the posters on this board are representative, i would say it was a big time 'fail'.

no a-list anyone is going to touch this project with a ten foot pole. paris is a girl who we wouldn't even be hearing from if her father were here. mj is her only claim to fame. there is no indication that this kid has any talent. for all we know, she could be just like her talentless wannabe singer cousin, randy's girl whose name escapes me at the moment. also, the jacksons' tacky and greedy reputation precedes them, so what legit person would ever do business with them? (the fact that they're in business with this so-called producer speaks volumes.)

i'm sure that many of legit people knew mj, and out of respect for him, would never want to attach themselves to this project, knowing that he wouldn't want his daughter exploited this way.

Kibbles GREAT POSTS, where have you been?

musicjunky318 said:

Who wouldn't be in awe of Michael's career? It really says something when Janet Jackson is only the second most successful. This is a woman with 5 multi-platinum albums and over 100 million in sales and it seems like a spec when compared to her older brother.

Nothing wrong with being in awe but to be in awe to the point she would insist her own brother was trying to out sing her???????????????????????????????

Come on now....

mjscarousal said:

kibbles said:

yeah, i have to say i don't understand janet's criticism that mj was purposely trying to 'outsing' her, either. to my ears, his vocals on 'scream' don't sound different than say, his vocals on 'bad'. if he was attempting to give his vocals more 'power', given the underlying lyrics of the song, i think that's in keeping with the overall emotions that he was trying to convey.

janet's entitled to her opinion, but um, i certainly don't think that mj would have to 'try to outsing her'. he just can. this isn't to say she hasn't been successful, that's an obvious point that no one is trying to argue. like madonna and others, she has had lots of hits, in spite of her lack of vocal prowess.

Ive always thought she was semi jealous of Michael's talent and success likewise with the rest of the siblings. For her to even make a comment like that is rather immature and ridiclous but like you said everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Oh please!!! Janet didn't even want to sing in the first place her father forced her to. Then years later when her singing career hit the stratosphere & rivals her brothers then she's accused of being jealous of him? Give me a break & miss me with all of that.

MJ was the one that secretly went into the studio to redo his first already recorded vocals for "Scream". To me that sounds more like jealousy from his point then hers. Remember that was during the time when Janet surpassed him in having 7 top 5 singles from one album. Poor Mj couldn't handle the competition. Janet took time out her busy schedule to do the duet with him during a very controversial period in MJ's life. So tired of Mj fans downplaying Janet's success.

Also I've been cussed out on here many times. Doesn't really bother me boo boo. U can try if U want hater...

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

mjscarousal said:

Ive always thought she was semi jealous of Michael's talent and success likewise with the rest of the siblings. For her to even make a comment like that is rather immature and ridiclous but like you said everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Oh please!!! Janet didn't even want to sing in the first place her father forced her to. Then years later when her singing career hit the stratosphere & rivals her brothers then she's accused of being jealous of him? Give me a break & miss me with all of that.

MJ was the one that secretly went into the studio to redo his first already recorded vocals for "Scream". To me that sounds more like jealousy from his point then hers. Remember that was during the time when Janet surpassed him in having 7 top 5 singles from one album. Poor Mj couldn't handle the competition. Janet took time out her busy schedule to do the duet with him during a very controversial period in MJ's life. So tired of Mj fans downplaying Janet's success.

Also I've been cussed out on here many times. Doesn't really bother me boo boo. U can try if U want hater...

but i specifically stated that i'm not denying janet's success. 100 million albums is nothing to sneeze at. i'm only questioning her belief that mj was trying to outsing her. does she really believe that her voice is as good as his, and that he would feel the need to redo his vocals to 'come up' to her level? that doesn't make sense. janet is not a great singer. she isn't. in my estimation she isn't even a good singer, which is why i have never purchased any of her music. i'm can hum her songs when they come on the radio, but it ends there.

that isn't to say she hasn't been sucessful. look at madonna. she has sold as many if not more units than janet, but her singing is just as bad.

as for mj going back to redo his vocals; maybe he didn't like his vocals? moreover, is it at all possible that he felt he was "holding back" in deference to her, but then decided against it? or as i posted before, he maybe felt his emotions weren't strong enuf so decided to redo them? i mean, did jimmy jam specifically say that mj was jealous of janet and that's why he redid his vocals? to make her sound bad? why would he want his sister or himself to sound bad on a single that was going to be the first off of his album? then why would he turn around and give her such a prominent role in the resulting video where she danced her ass off and he hardly danced if he was so determined to make her look bad or was seething with jealousy? that doesn't make sense, does it?

both mj and janet were in competition with everyone on the charts. why would he specifically be in competition with her?

mjscarousal said:

kibbles said:

well, as they say, water seeks its own level. oprah, too, must be desperate as hell to be interviewing a teenager whose father she has nothing but contempt for in her delusional hope that paris would bring her some ratings success. if the posters on this board are representative, i would say it was a big time 'fail'.

no a-list anyone is going to touch this project with a ten foot pole. paris is a girl who we wouldn't even be hearing from if her father were here. mj is her only claim to fame. there is no indication that this kid has any talent. for all we know, she could be just like her talentless wannabe singer cousin, randy's girl whose name escapes me at the moment. also, the jacksons' tacky and greedy reputation precedes them, so what legit person would ever do business with them? (the fact that they're in business with this so-called producer speaks volumes.)

i'm sure that many of legit people knew mj, and out of respect for him, would never want to attach themselves to this project, knowing that he wouldn't want his daughter exploited this way.

Kibbles GREAT POSTS, where have you been?

you know, hanging around, lurking about!

kibbles said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Oh please!!! Janet didn't even want to sing in the first place her father forced her to. Then years later when her singing career hit the stratosphere & rivals her brothers then she's accused of being jealous of him? Give me a break & miss me with all of that.

MJ was the one that secretly went into the studio to redo his first already recorded vocals for "Scream". To me that sounds more like jealousy from his point then hers. Remember that was during the time when Janet surpassed him in having 7 top 5 singles from one album. Poor Mj couldn't handle the competition. Janet took time out her busy schedule to do the duet with him during a very controversial period in MJ's life. So tired of Mj fans downplaying Janet's success.

Also I've been cussed out on here many times. Doesn't really bother me boo boo. U can try if U want hater...

but i specifically stated that i'm not denying janet's success. 100 million albums is nothing to sneeze at. i'm only questioning her belief that mj was trying to outsing her. does she really believe that her voice is as good as his, and that he would feel the need to redo his vocals to 'come up' to her level? that doesn't make sense. janet is not a great singer. she isn't. in my estimation she isn't even a good singer, which is why i have never purchased any of her music. i'm can hum her songs when they come on the radio, but it ends there.

that isn't to say she hasn't been sucessful. look at madonna. she has sold as many if not more units than janet, but her singing is just as bad.

as for mj going back to redo his vocals; maybe he didn't like his vocals? moreover, is it at all possible that he felt he was "holding back" in deference to her, but then decided against it? or as i posted before, he maybe felt his emotions weren't strong enuf so decided to redo them? i mean, did jimmy jam specifically say that mj was jealous of janet and that's why he redid his vocals? to make her sound bad? why would he want his sister or himself to sound bad on a single that was going to be the first off of his album? then why would he turn around and give her such a prominent role in the resulting video where she danced her ass off and he hardly danced if he was so determined to make her look bad or was seething with jealousy? that doesn't make sense, does it?

both mj and janet were in competition with everyone on the charts. why would he specifically be in competition with her?

Jimmy Jam on Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson recording “Scream”

morganr1214:

Jimmy Jam: “I remember going into the studio and Michael just blew it away first take just killed it with all the anger and rage. She (Janet) was like ’ I’m not following that nobody is following Michael Jackson after that’.”
Narration: “Feeling the pressure Janet opted to record her vocals in a different studio, on a different day. She laid down a vocal that more than matched her brother’s performance”
Jimmy Jam: “Michael goes ‘I want to come to Minneapolis and redo my vocal’. I was like Michael your vocals are perfect man. He’s like ‘No,no I got to redo them Janet sounds really good and I have to redo my vocal’. I was like okay fine. That’s competition, I don’t know if it’s healthy competition.”

I am not in the least downplaying Mj's vocals. i actually learned how to sing listening to him sing. But i was just pointing out that MJ wanted to outshine Janet on that track "Scream" this is proof. On the final mix Janet's voice is barely audible & Janet was pissed & understandably. She was not told until afterwards that Mj redid his vocals..To me that is sneaky & taking it a little too far to beat your own sister...

[Edited 6/13/12 13:57pm]

kibbles said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Oh please!!! Janet didn't even want to sing in the first place her father forced her to. Then years later when her singing career hit the stratosphere & rivals her brothers then she's accused of being jealous of him? Give me a break & miss me with all of that.

MJ was the one that secretly went into the studio to redo his first already recorded vocals for "Scream". To me that sounds more like jealousy from his point then hers. Remember that was during the time when Janet surpassed him in having 7 top 5 singles from one album. Poor Mj couldn't handle the competition. Janet took time out her busy schedule to do the duet with him during a very controversial period in MJ's life. So tired of Mj fans downplaying Janet's success.

Also I've been cussed out on here many times. Doesn't really bother me boo boo. U can try if U want hater...

but i specifically stated that i'm not denying janet's success. 100 million albums is nothing to sneeze at. i'm only questioning her belief that mj was trying to outsing her. does she really believe that her voice is as good as his, and that he would feel the need to redo his vocals to 'come up' to her level? that doesn't make sense. janet is not a great singer. she isn't. in my estimation she isn't even a good singer, which is why i have never purchased any of her music. i'm can hum her songs when they come on the radio, but it ends there.

that isn't to say she hasn't been sucessful. look at madonna. she has sold as many if not more units than janet, but her singing is just as bad.

as for mj going back to redo his vocals; maybe he didn't like his vocals? moreover, is it at all possible that he felt he was "holding back" in deference to her, but then decided against it? or as i posted before, he maybe felt his emotions weren't strong enuf so decided to redo them? i mean, did jimmy jam specifically say that mj was jealous of janet and that's why he redid his vocals? to make her sound bad? why would he want his sister or himself to sound bad on a single that was going to be the first off of his album? then why would he turn around and give her such a prominent role in the resulting video where she danced her ass off and he hardly danced if he was so determined to make her look bad or was seething with jealousy? that doesn't make sense, does it?

both mj and janet were in competition with everyone on the charts. why would he specifically be in competition with her?

Great Post Kibbles your on a roll!!!!

kibbles said:

mjscarousal said:

Kibbles GREAT POSTS, where have you been?

you know, hanging around, lurking about!

You need to come more often we need more intelligent rational common sense posts!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

kibbles said:

but i specifically stated that i'm not denying janet's success. 100 million albums is nothing to sneeze at. i'm only questioning her belief that mj was trying to outsing her. does she really believe that her voice is as good as his, and that he would feel the need to redo his vocals to 'come up' to her level? that doesn't make sense. janet is not a great singer. she isn't. in my estimation she isn't even a good singer, which is why i have never purchased any of her music. i'm can hum her songs when they come on the radio, but it ends there.

that isn't to say she hasn't been sucessful. look at madonna. she has sold as many if not more units than janet, but her singing is just as bad.

as for mj going back to redo his vocals; maybe he didn't like his vocals? moreover, is it at all possible that he felt he was "holding back" in deference to her, but then decided against it? or as i posted before, he maybe felt his emotions weren't strong enuf so decided to redo them? i mean, did jimmy jam specifically say that mj was jealous of janet and that's why he redid his vocals? to make her sound bad? why would he want his sister or himself to sound bad on a single that was going to be the first off of his album? then why would he turn around and give her such a prominent role in the resulting video where she danced her ass off and he hardly danced if he was so determined to make her look bad or was seething with jealousy? that doesn't make sense, does it?

both mj and janet were in competition with everyone on the charts. why would he specifically be in competition with her?

Jimmy Jam on Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson recording “Scream”

morganr1214:

Jimmy Jam: “I remember going into the studio and Michael just blew it away first take just killed it with all the anger and rage. She (Janet) was like ’ I’m not following that nobody is following Michael Jackson after that’.”
Narration: “Feeling the pressure Janet opted to record her vocals in a different studio, on a different day. She laid down a vocal that more than matched her brother’s performance”
Jimmy Jam: “Michael goes ‘I want to come to Minneapolis and redo my vocal’. I was like Michael your vocals are perfect man. He’s like ‘No,no I got to redo them Janet sounds really good and I have to redo my vocal’. I was like okay fine. That’s competition, I don’t know if it’s healthy competition.”

I am not in the least downplaying Mj's vocals. i actually learned how to sing listening to him sing. But i was just pointing out that MJ wanted to outshine Janet on that track "Scream" this is proof. On the final mix Janet's voice is barely audible & Janet was pissed & understandably. She was not told until afterwards that Mj redid he vocals..To me that is sneaky & taking it a little too far to be your own sister...

Kool.. you make some posts that I agree with sometimes Im not gonna lie but this is really really delusional thinking here.

It sounds more like Jimmy Jam was making more out of the comment than what it was. Did you ever stop to think maybe Michael wanted to match the same level of rage or emotion? It sounds to me Michael was exactly giving Janet a compliment. Like Kibbles said it was a first single off of his album so he wanted the vocals to be great.. not just his. Your agruement doesnt even make sense

FYI, I LOVE Janet and you already know Im a big Janet fan likewise others here.

Im not downplaying her success at all but its ridiculous to suggest that Michael would try to outsing her as if she has powerhouse vocals and as if shes a better singer to Michael. In saying that, doesnt mean people are downplaying her success. Me and you both know Janet is a weak vocalist, there is no getting around that fact even without trying Michael would still be a superior vocalist always. I think Michael wanted to re-do the vocals because his a perfectionist and probably admired Janets delivery, not nessarily wanted to outshine her.

[Edited 6/13/12 13:57pm]

mjscarousal said:

SoulAlive said:

an interview with 50 Cent? Is this really the best she can do? A rapper who was "hot" 10 years ago?

If she really wants to boost ratings for her failing network,she would ask her good pal John Travolta to be interviewed on her show.That would give her some sky-high ratings.He's a hot topic right now.

I heard about him whats going on with my boy? I think I heard they trying to say he gay or something like that...

he's involved in a sleazy gay scandal,where several masseurs have accused of him of coming on to them,during the massage.I'm surprised you haven't seen all the madness on the supermarket tabloids,lol.

HQGetty Images

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

kibbles said:

but i specifically stated that i'm not denying janet's success. 100 million albums is nothing to sneeze at. i'm only questioning her belief that mj was trying to outsing her. does she really believe that her voice is as good as his, and that he would feel the need to redo his vocals to 'come up' to her level? that doesn't make sense. janet is not a great singer. she isn't. in my estimation she isn't even a good singer, which is why i have never purchased any of her music. i'm can hum her songs when they come on the radio, but it ends there.

that isn't to say she hasn't been sucessful. look at madonna. she has sold as many if not more units than janet, but her singing is just as bad.

as for mj going back to redo his vocals; maybe he didn't like his vocals? moreover, is it at all possible that he felt he was "holding back" in deference to her, but then decided against it? or as i posted before, he maybe felt his emotions weren't strong enuf so decided to redo them? i mean, did jimmy jam specifically say that mj was jealous of janet and that's why he redid his vocals? to make her sound bad? why would he want his sister or himself to sound bad on a single that was going to be the first off of his album? then why would he turn around and give her such a prominent role in the resulting video where she danced her ass off and he hardly danced if he was so determined to make her look bad or was seething with jealousy? that doesn't make sense, does it?

both mj and janet were in competition with everyone on the charts. why would he specifically be in competition with her?

Jimmy Jam on Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson recording “Scream”

morganr1214:

Jimmy Jam: “I remember going into the studio and Michael just blew it away first take just killed it with all the anger and rage. She (Janet) was like ’ I’m not following that nobody is following Michael Jackson after that’.”
Narration: “Feeling the pressure Janet opted to record her vocals in a different studio, on a different day. She laid down a vocal that more than matched her brother’s performance”
Jimmy Jam: “Michael goes ‘I want to come to Minneapolis and redo my vocal’. I was like Michael your vocals are perfect man. He’s like ‘No,no I got to redo them Janet sounds really good and I have to redo my vocal’. I was like okay fine. That’s competition, I don’t know if it’s healthy competition.”

I am not in the least downplaying Mj's vocals. i actually learned how to sing listening to him sing. But i was just pointing out that MJ wanted to outshine Janet on that track "Scream" this is proof. On the final mix Janet's voice is barely audible & Janet was pissed & understandably. She was not told until afterwards that Mj redid he vocals..To me that is sneaky & taking it a little too far to be your own sister...

well, i suppose it's a matter of interpretation. mj obviously thought his performance was lacking. jimmy jam doesn't say he said anything bad about janet, only his own performance. so if he thought his performance was lacking, why wouldn't he want to go re-record it? whether he did it out of spite or "competition", as jimmy interpreted it, or whether he sincerely thought his vocal wasn't up to snuff, i don't think we can say for sure. mj was known to be really hard on himself, and recorded and re-recorded even when he was in the studio by himself. isn't he supposed to shine on his own record?

janet also shows her own competitiveness here, too. she didn't even want to be in the studio with him to record her vocals, so what does that say about her?

i disagree with your assessment that janet's vocals are barely audible on 'scream'; they are quite prominent. in many of her own songs, i can barely hear or understand her.

and again, if mj was trying to make janet look so bad, why put her in his most expensive video only to allow her to outshine him? she looks damn good and dances really well in it. i just don't buy this story that mj was out to shoot her down or sabotage her.

@

mjscarousal

we can agree to disagree on this. But Janet's vocals to me was amazing on this track. In fact I was actually shocked at how well she sounded going against her brother..But the tone of her voice was very low compared to Mj's. So that makes me feel he wanted to outshine her. Yes it was a compliment that her vocals came out so well. But not to out do your own sister on a track & redo it and not tell her. Only thing good out of it was Janet totally outshined him in the video.But she was at the top of her game back then.She was badass in that video.But I heard this actually caused a riff in between them for a while...

[Edited 6/13/12 14:23pm]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

@

mjscarousal

we can agree to disagree on this. But Janet's vocals to me was amazing on this track. In fact I was actually shocked at how well she sounded going against her brother..But the tone of her voice was very low compared to Mj's. So that makes me feel he wanted to outshine her. Yes it was a compliment that her vocals came out so well. But not to out do your own sister on a track & redo it and not tell her. Only thing good out of it was Janet totally outshined him in the video.But she was at the top of her game back then.She was badass in that video.But I heard this actually caused a riff in between them for a while...

[Edited 6/13/12 14:23pm]

so this is simply YOUR interpretation, not what actually happened, right? were jimmy or terry prevented from telling janet that mj redid his vocals? was it supposed to be some big secret? if anything, as jimmy pointed out on that tape, mj paid the woman a compliment, and went back in the studio to redo his vocals. what is suspicious about that? it makes sense, don't you think?

and again, you can't talk about how low janet in the mix, then turn around and talk about how good she sounded against mj w/o giving mj some credit. it's a contradiction. b/c he could have made her sound like shit, right? he had final approval, i'm sure. and then you can't turn around and say that janet was badass in the video, and not also acknowledge that mj was the one funding the video. he could have cut out anything he wanted, he could have cut down her screen time, he could gone back and redid his portion of the video and inserted any new dance move of his own if he wanted to "outshine" her. he didn't.

if janet was/is upset, that's on her. mj was on tape talking about a whole host of things about his family to that rabbi, and not one time, NOT ONE, did he ever have anything nasty to say about janet. said plenty about his brothers, heard him say tons about joe on another tape. the only thing he said about his sister is that he wished they were closer and that he regretted teasing her about her weight. not exactly the asshole you have made him out to be. i don't know why you want to believe otherwise.

[Edited 6/13/12 14:43pm]

kibbles said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

@

mjscarousal

we can agree to disagree on this. But Janet's vocals to me was amazing on this track. In fact I was actually shocked at how well she sounded going against her brother..But the tone of her voice was very low compared to Mj's. So that makes me feel he wanted to outshine her. Yes it was a compliment that her vocals came out so well. But not to out do your own sister on a track & redo it and not tell her. Only thing good out of it was Janet totally outshined him in the video.But she was at the top of her game back then.She was badass in that video.But I heard this actually caused a riff in between them for a while...

[Edited 6/13/12 14:23pm]

so this is simply YOUR interpretation, not what actually happened, right? were jimmy or terry prevented from telling janet that mj redid his vocals? was it supposed to be some big secret? if anything, as jimmy pointed out on that tape, mj paid the woman a compliment, and went back in the studio to redo his vocals. what is suspicious about that? it makes sense, don't you think?

and again, you can't talk about how low janet in the mix, then turn around and talk about how good she sounded against mj w/o giving mj some credit. it's a contradiction. b/c he could have made her sound like shit, right? he had final approval, i'm sure. and then you can't turn around and say that janet was badass in the video, and not also acknowledge that mj was the one funding the video. he could have cut out anything he wanted, he could have cut down her screen time, he could gone back and redid his portion of the video and inserted any new dance move of his own if he wanted to "outshine" her. he didn't.

if janet was/is upset, that's on her. mj was on tape talking about a whole host of things about his family to that rabbi, and not one time, NOT ONE, did he ever have anything nasty to say about janet. said plenty about his brothers, heard him say tons about joe on another tape. the only thing he said about his sister is that he wished they were closer and that he regretted teasing her about her weight. not exactly the asshole you have made him out to be. i don't know why you want to believe otherwise.

[Edited 6/13/12 14:43pm]

And there it is! To be bad we cant say the same thing for Janet after Michael passed.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

@

mjscarousal

we can agree to disagree on this. But Janet's vocals to me was amazing on this track. In fact I was actually shocked at how well she sounded going against her brother..But the tone of her voice was very low compared to Mj's. So that makes me feel he wanted to outshine her. Yes it was a compliment that her vocals came out so well. But not to out do your own sister on a track & redo it and not tell her. Only thing good out of it was Janet totally outshined him in the video.But she was at the top of her game back then.She was badass in that video.But I heard this actually caused a riff in between them for a while...

[Edited 6/13/12 14:23pm]

Janet did her thing in the video. Your making it seem as if no one has given her no credit and to me indirectly not giving Michael credit and sounding like a biased Janet stan.

What does the video have to do with her vocals?

Janets vocals sounds good for what they are but naturally Michael is more superior to Janet vocally which you seem to not want to admit to. This has nothing to do with the video, dancing etc.

If that is how you see it though so be it but in knowing that Michael is stronger vocally I dont know why you would suggest he would exactly purposely try to outshine her when Janet is a weak vocalist to begin with and singing with her automatically he will outshine her even without trying to.