xLiberiangirl said:

oh lol.

Here we go again. Madonna does what she wants. she doesn't care about age, or if it's shocking or not. well, of course she kinda likes to shock. but she does what she wants. that's what I always loved about Madonna. that's why I see her as inspiration, for me... as young lady.

And who cares that she is 53? she is not allowed to show her tit? just because she's ''old''? oh come on!!! she looks very good for her age, and she isn't ''old''.. people should do what they want, no matter what their age is!!

just saying.

So you're inspired by someone who makes it okay for grandmas to flash their nipples whenever and wherever they please coz they just don't give a damn about what anyone around them thinks?

It doesn't really matter whether her tits look good or not. The principle is what's important. Certain age ranges signify expected changes in human behaviour. A mother should at least try and set a good example for her kids if not for anyone else. Next thing we know Lourdes has her tits out at walmart because she doesn't give a damn what others think(like her mom).

Madonna had been socially relevant(as a lot of braindead teenagers still listen to her music for some reason)but never accepted the responsibility of being a good role model.

Lawd....

And this coming from a woman who threw shade at Miss Jackson for the nip slip at her Superbowl Performance, saying she didn't need to flash a nip to stay relevant or get ratings.

Madge, RE-SEAT yourself!!!!

Arbwyth said:

Gunsnhalen said:

You people say it's a double standard? but Mick Jagger, Prince, R. Kelly, or other older artist's who used to be provocative aren't showing there old ass dick on stage

[Edited 6/13/12 11:00am]

Oh for fuck’s sake. Have you never taken an anatomy class? The equivalent of a penis on a woman is a vagina. The equivalent of a woman’s nipple on a man is….get ready for this…..A NIPPLE. Men can walk around with their nipples out all they want, and women get fucking CRUCIFIED for even showing ours for a fraction of a second. You know, despite the fact that we breastfeed and therefore may actually have a REASON to have ours out, and despite the fact that we get just as hot and uncomfortable during the summer. Unlike women, there’s no practical reason why a guy would need to whip his tits out, ever. I’m not saying that men’s nipples should also be pathologized and banned in public like women’s are, just that this is a bullshit, irrational double standard that is based on absolutely nothing except misogyny and society’s obsession with controlling women’s bodies. I pay the same fucking taxes as a man, yet I have fewer rights in public, and this is one of them. No, I’m not thrilled that Madonna made those passive aggressive comments about Janet in January or that she’s also taking passive aggressive swipes at Lady Gaga during her concerts, but I’m also not going to bash her simply because she’s a woman who’s over the age of 25.

I do think she should think about her treatment of other women, though, because it contributes to a climate that hurts her just as much as it hurts them. But I just don't see how people who claim to be rational can take issue with this.

Let's all get Nekkid, shall we?

Screw society, cultural and social norms

I personally wouldn't mind women walking around tits out. I do have a question though. Why is it that when i accidentally stare that one extra second at a woman's plunging neckline i am given that "Don't be a creepy asshole" look that makes me feel really very sad.

aardvark15 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I'm not trying to get in this war, but Madonna fans are so far the only people i have ever met. That find it acceptable that a 53 year old is being immature and flashing her boobs and ass in front of people

If this was anybody but Madonna you would be mocking them.

I'd praise them too. It's different when it's an older woman doing this than someone say Rihanna. If it was Rihanna I'd see no point because everybody already knows she shows off her body and she's young. The difference is Madonna's trying to question why it's okay for anybody but old women. If Janet or any other older woman decided to this I'd be all over them like Madonna. The problem is none of them have M's guts

Courtney Love is already doing her bit. I guess that makes her revolutionary too.

Arbwyth said:

Gunsnhalen said:

You people say it's a double standard? but Mick Jagger, Prince, R. Kelly, or other older artist's who used to be provocative aren't showing there old ass dick on stage

[Edited 6/13/12 11:00am]

Oh for fuck’s sake. Have you never taken an anatomy class? The equivalent of a penis on a woman is a vagina. The equivalent of a woman’s nipple on a man is….get ready for this…..A NIPPLE. Men can walk around with their nipples out all they want, and women get fucking CRUCIFIED for even showing ours for a fraction of a second. You know, despite the fact that we breastfeed and therefore may actually have a REASON to have ours out, and despite the fact that we get just as hot and uncomfortable during the summer. Unlike women, there’s no practical reason why a guy would need to whip his tits out, ever. I’m not saying that men’s nipples should also be pathologized and banned in public like women’s are, just that this is a bullshit, irrational double standard that is based on absolutely nothing except misogyny and society’s obsession with controlling women’s bodies. I pay the same fucking taxes as a man, yet I have fewer rights in public, and this is one of them. No, I’m not thrilled that Madonna made those passive aggressive comments about Janet in January or that she’s also taking passive aggressive swipes at Lady Gaga during her concerts, but I’m also not going to bash her simply because she’s a woman who’s over the age of 25.

I do think she should think about her treatment of other women, though, because it contributes to a climate that hurts her just as much as it hurts them. But I just don't see how people who claim to be rational can take issue with this.

lik

Xscaper said:

xLiberiangirl said:

oh lol.

Here we go again. Madonna does what she wants. she doesn't care about age, or if it's shocking or not. well, of course she kinda likes to shock. but she does what she wants. that's what I always loved about Madonna. that's why I see her as inspiration, for me... as young lady.

And who cares that she is 53? she is not allowed to show her tit? just because she's ''old''? oh come on!!! she looks very good for her age, and she isn't ''old''.. people should do what they want, no matter what their age is!!

just saying.

So you're inspired by someone who makes it okay for grandmas to flash their nipples whenever and wherever they please coz they just don't give a damn about what anyone around them thinks?

It doesn't really matter whether her tits look good or not. The principle is what's important. Certain age ranges signify expected changes in human behaviour. A mother should at least try and set a good example for her kids if not for anyone else. Next thing we know Lourdes has her tits out at walmart because she doesn't give a damn what others think(like her mom).

Madonna had been socially relevant(as a lot of braindead teenagers still listen to her music for some reason)but never accepted the responsibility of being a good role model.

You and others seem to lose all sense of context and rationality when discussing this issue.

Madonna is a smart woman. I'm sure she long ago established the difference between "Mommy the entertainer" and "Mommy" to her kids. If you've read anything about or seen her kids on TV etc, it seems that thus far they are very well adjusted, well rounded, smart children. I'm sure if Lourdes wanted to show her tits in Wal-Mart Madonna would quickly shut her down! If Lourdes wanted to show her tits in a movie or some sort of artistic endeavor she'd probably back her fully (when Lourdes is of age of course). Madonna lives her life exactly how she wants and she does what she wants and she's been very successful by embracing that mentality. She doesn't think or live in a limited way. What you see is what you get. What better example is there to a child? One thing people could never take about Madonna is she doesn't care what you think, she doesn't care about societies "rules", she creates her destiny on her terms. More people should be that way.

Madonna isn't flashing her nipples wherever and whenever she pleases. She was at HER concert. I highly doubt there was a person in the audience that was unaware of Madonna and her reputation, in fact most of the people there probably paid good money for their tickets partly BECAUSE of her unpredictable, outrageous reputation on stage. That's the big difference also between this and Janet at Super Bowl. People like the Super Bowl to be scandal free and just good entertainment. I think it's stupid people made such a ruckus about that too and I really wish Janet would've owned that! I don't know why everyone is so scared of a tit. You'd think in a country where pornography generates billions yearly that folks would be a little more open to a little nudity. It's not like Justin was up on stage pounding Janet's kitty kat. It just all reeks of hypocrisy. My opinion aside though and whether it was intentional or not, Janet's boob being exposed at the Super Bowl akin to seeing a woman strolling through the mall in a thong bikini. Madonna exposing her boob at her show is like seeing that woman in the thong bikini strolling down the beach on a hot day.

A six page thread on a site not even dedicated to her, discussion panels on news shows, provoking discussion about age and sexuality.....things most people DON'T want to talk or think about. Sounds like the ol' girl has still got it to me. And she does it so effortlessly.

[Edited 6/14/12 15:31pm]

Arbwyth said:

Gunsnhalen said:

You people say it's a double standard? but Mick Jagger, Prince, R. Kelly, or other older artist's who used to be provocative aren't showing there old ass dick on stage

[Edited 6/13/12 11:00am]

Oh for fuck’s sake. Have you never taken an anatomy class? The equivalent of a penis on a woman is a vagina. The equivalent of a woman’s nipple on a man is….get ready for this…..A NIPPLE. Men can walk around with their nipples out all they want, and women get fucking CRUCIFIED for even showing ours for a fraction of a second. You know, despite the fact that we breastfeed and therefore may actually have a REASON to have ours out, and despite the fact that we get just as hot and uncomfortable during the summer. Unlike women, there’s no practical reason why a guy would need to whip his tits out, ever. I’m not saying that men’s nipples should also be pathologized and banned in public like women’s are, just that this is a bullshit, irrational double standard that is based on absolutely nothing except misogyny and society’s obsession with controlling women’s bodies. I pay the same fucking taxes as a man, yet I have fewer rights in public, and this is one of them. No, I’m not thrilled that Madonna made those passive aggressive comments about Janet in January or that she’s also taking passive aggressive swipes at Lady Gaga during her concerts, but I’m also not going to bash her simply because she’s a woman who’s over the age of 25.

I do think she should think about her treatment of other women, though, because it contributes to a climate that hurts her just as much as it hurts them. But I just don't see how people who claim to be rational can take issue with this.

Easy there, i was simply stating an opinion. And i feel you are attacking me for simple stating that.

Whether we like it or not, boobs are seen as ''sexual'' objects. Men's niiples can be to... but boobs and womens niples are seen as sexual. The ass i have read is so & so.

In the media you can show an ass and get away with it usually... but a penis or tit shot is what take's the cake. And either way men and women are different... do you think all women should be walking around with there tops off? cause trust me there are some men that walk shirtles... that don't need to be same could be applied for if a woman does it.

Xscaper said:

Arbwyth said:

Oh for fuck’s sake. Have you never taken an anatomy class? The equivalent of a penis on a woman is a vagina. The equivalent of a woman’s nipple on a man is….get ready for this…..A NIPPLE. Men can walk around with their nipples out all they want, and women get fucking CRUCIFIED for even showing ours for a fraction of a second. You know, despite the fact that we breastfeed and therefore may actually have a REASON to have ours out, and despite the fact that we get just as hot and uncomfortable during the summer. Unlike women, there’s no practical reason why a guy would need to whip his tits out, ever. I’m not saying that men’s nipples should also be pathologized and banned in public like women’s are, just that this is a bullshit, irrational double standard that is based on absolutely nothing except misogyny and society’s obsession with controlling women’s bodies. I pay the same fucking taxes as a man, yet I have fewer rights in public, and this is one of them. No, I’m not thrilled that Madonna made those passive aggressive comments about Janet in January or that she’s also taking passive aggressive swipes at Lady Gaga during her concerts, but I’m also not going to bash her simply because she’s a woman who’s over the age of 25.

I do think she should think about her treatment of other women, though, because it contributes to a climate that hurts her just as much as it hurts them. But I just don't see how people who claim to be rational can take issue with this.

Let's all get Nekkid, shall we?

Screw society, cultural and social norms

I personally wouldn't mind women walking around tits out. I do have a question though. Why is it that when i accidentally stare that one extra second at a woman's plunging neckline i am given that "Don't be a creepy asshole" look that makes me feel really very sad.

Ahh shit! i get that to. And i'm gay so i'm like calm your ass down i'm not checking you out

Not all do that! but i do get some girls who i have a brief 1 second eye contact they think i am ''checking'' them out. Whatever

She's still trying...

I am sure Prostitutes give the exact same reasoning to their kids as well. "look kids, Mommies gotta earn so she's gonna be a whore for a while but that's okay coz i won't be a whore at home". How's that for inspiration.

Stans gotta defend everything.

If someone actually wants to convince me that fans ACTUALLY buy tickets for the opportunity to perhaps see M's tits and ass then i am sorry; that reflects really badly on both the "artist" and the bat shit crazy stans.

How about an orgy on stage if she REALLY wants to push the limits? Or maybe pissing on the crowd. It's HER concert after all. She can do as she pleases.

Tuls101 said:

lik

Xscaper said:

So you're inspired by someone who makes it okay for grandmas to flash their nipples whenever and wherever they please coz they just don't give a damn about what anyone around them thinks?

It doesn't really matter whether her tits look good or not. The principle is what's important. Certain age ranges signify expected changes in human behaviour. A mother should at least try and set a good example for her kids if not for anyone else. Next thing we know Lourdes has her tits out at walmart because she doesn't give a damn what others think(like her mom).

Madonna had been socially relevant(as a lot of braindead teenagers still listen to her music for some reason)but never accepted the responsibility of being a good role model.

You and others seem to lose all sense of context and rationality when discussing this issue.

Madonna is a smart woman. I'm sure she long ago established the difference between "Mommy the entertainer" and "Mommy" to her kids.

Xscaper said:

I am sure Prostitutes give the exact same reasoning to their kids as well. "look kids, Mommies gotta earn so she's gonna be a whore for a while but that's okay coz i won't be a whore at home". How's that for inspiration.

Stans gotta defend everything.

If someone actually wants to convince me that fans ACTUALLY buy tickets for the opportunity to perhaps see M's tits and ass then i am sorry; that reflects really badly on both the "artist" and the bat shit crazy stans.

How about an orgy on stage if she REALLY wants to push the limits? Or maybe pissing on the crowd. It's HER concert after all. She can do as she pleases.

Tuls101 said:

lik

You and others seem to lose all sense of context and rationality when discussing this issue.

Madonna is a smart woman. I'm sure she long ago established the difference between "Mommy the entertainer" and "Mommy" to her kids.

Wow. Once again, losing all sense of context and rationality.

Prostitution is legal in some places. Do you think those countries, it's citizens and it's lawmakers are morally bankrupt? Assuming you are talking about US though.....

I think a bigger issue for a prostitute to discuss with their child when going out to the job for the night is the fact that it's illegal and they may not come home because they are in jail. Also explain the increased likelihood that they may not come home because they've been murdered. I don't think many aspire to be a prostitute, that something done out of desperation in most cases so no, that's not very inspiring. Fortunately for Madonna and her brood the situation isn't quite that dire. Madonna is living her dream and it's legal and she pushes herself to the limit in terms of motivation and work ethic so yes that is inspiring.

As far as pissing on the audience etc. Well, there are some acts who have done outrageous things like that, Marilyn Manson comes to mind. He has cut himself on stage and ripped pages out of the Holy Bible. Ozzy biting bats, Alice Cooper being electrocuted. And try not to grimace but their fans most likely LIKE that about those acts too. So, since you are apparently the authority on morals, what do you think of those acts and their kids and their fans? Acts know what their fanbases like so as long as they don't kill themselves or hurt anybody in the audience then they should be able express themselves artistically as they'd like. Why should someone like yourself who would most likely never attend a Madonna show, get to determine what she presents to her fans?

Obviously fans go to her shows for the music, that should be a given without saying. PART of what fans pay for though when seeing Madonna is the SPECTACLE. Whether that's a visually innovative stage, political messages, provocative dance moves, outrageous props or a tit. She's a showgirl, that's what she does best. She has based her career off of being a provocative, shocking, unpredictable performer and yes her fans like that about her. It's part of the package. I'd say that was a major part of Prince's appeal as a live performer too early on, do you find that and he pathetic and a bad reflection on his fans as well?

[Edited 6/15/12 1:57am]

[Edited 6/15/12 1:58am]

Xscaper said:

I am sure Prostitutes give the exact same reasoning to their kids as well. "look kids, Mommies gotta earn so she's gonna be a whore for a while but that's okay coz i won't be a whore at home". How's that for inspiration.

Stans gotta defend everything.

If someone actually wants to convince me that fans ACTUALLY buy tickets for the opportunity to perhaps see M's tits and ass then i am sorry; that reflects really badly on both the "artist" and the bat shit crazy stans.

How about an orgy on stage if she REALLY wants to push the limits? Or maybe pissing on the crowd. It's HER concert after all. She can do as she pleases.

Tuls101 said:

lik

You and others seem to lose all sense of context and rationality when discussing this issue.

Madonna is a smart woman. I'm sure she long ago established the difference between "Mommy the entertainer" and "Mommy" to her kids.

She's already had an sexy orgy on stage during her Girlie Show/Erotica tour

neonlights said:

She's still trying...

and?? that's nothing she hasn't done in any of her concerts

I like this one from her Truth or Dare perfume commercial

look at this....

this is very interesting..

http://www.thesun.co.uk/s...at-53.html

NSFW btw.. if you click on it.

Tuls101 said:

Xscaper said:

I am sure Prostitutes give the exact same reasoning to their kids as well. "look kids, Mommies gotta earn so she's gonna be a whore for a while but that's okay coz i won't be a whore at home". How's that for inspiration.

Stans gotta defend everything.

If someone actually wants to convince me that fans ACTUALLY buy tickets for the opportunity to perhaps see M's tits and ass then i am sorry; that reflects really badly on both the "artist" and the bat shit crazy stans.

How about an orgy on stage if she REALLY wants to push the limits? Or maybe pissing on the crowd. It's HER concert after all. She can do as she pleases.

Wow. Once again, losing all sense of context and rationality.

Prostitution is legal in some places. Do you think those countries, it's citizens and it's lawmakers are morally bankrupt? Assuming you are talking about US though.....

I think a bigger issue for a prostitute to discuss with their child when going out to the job for the night is the fact that it's illegal and they may not come home because they are in jail. Also explain the increased likelihood that they may not come home because they've been murdered. I don't think many aspire to be a prostitute, that something done out of desperation in most cases so no, that's not very inspiring. Fortunately for Madonna and her brood the situation isn't quite that dire. Madonna is living her dream and it's legal and she pushes herself to the limit in terms of motivation and work ethic so yes that is inspiring.

As far as pissing on the audience etc. Well, there are some acts who have done outrageous things like that, Marilyn Manson comes to mind. He has cut himself on stage and ripped pages out of the Holy Bible. Ozzy biting bats, Alice Cooper being electrocuted. And try not to grimace but their fans most likely LIKE that about those acts too. So, since you are apparently the authority on morals, what do you think of those acts and their kids and their fans? Acts know what their fanbases like so as long as they don't kill themselves or hurt anybody in the audience then they should be able express themselves artistically as they'd like. Why should someone like yourself who would most likely never attend a Madonna show, get to determine what she presents to her fans?

Obviously fans go to her shows for the music, that should be a given without saying. PART of what fans pay for though when seeing Madonna is the SPECTACLE. Whether that's a visually innovative stage, political messages, provocative dance moves, outrageous props or a tit. She's a showgirl, that's what she does best. She has based her career off of being a provocative, shocking, unpredictable performer and yes her fans like that about her. It's part of the package. I'd say that was a major part of Prince's appeal as a live performer too early on, do you find that and he pathetic and a bad reflection on his fans as well?

[Edited 6/15/12 1:57am]

[Edited 6/15/12 1:58am]

We shouldn't really get into a debate about whether Prostitution is morally reprehensible or not. I do have my opinion and i think most people would agree that selling your body isn't really the best form of business whichever way you look at it. The only reason why it's legal in places is for regulation purpose and for protection of the women involved. It's not because those societies believe it's an appreciable line of work coz if they did everyone would be involved in it.

Look, i am not claiming any moral higher ground here. I just wanted to say out my opinion about her unnecessarily taking out her puppies. There was no reason why she should have.

If it's some kind of statement about gender inequality then A) it's not very well directed B) why not make the statement to a broader audience like at the superbowl or something. Wait, didn't somebody do that already?

If it was all a bit of jest and fun then yeah, you're right, i wouldn't wanna be in concerts where the artists take off their tops/trousers for fun/artistic expression/political statement. There are better ways to do all of that. All those acts you mentioned were crazy and their fans were/are as crazy as them. Madonna is more mainstream and less hardcore. The expectations are different. You can't be a popular artist and do crazy careless shit like that at the same time. You can either have the cake or eat it.

I am sure the fans appreciate the less provocative Prince as well. You do crazy shit when you're young but there is a time when you must grow up. Madonna refuses to do that. That leotard she wears couldn't do justice to a woman 15 years younger than her. It makes me wanna throw up whenever i see Madonna donning that. That's not innovation. That's just making people sick. Act age appropriate.

'Is Madonna losing her shock value?

No! The proof is that here's a several pages debate about wether it's ok or not 4 a 50+ female artist 2 flash her tit on her show. Well, she does it becuz she can...we're living in a word where women are still repressed, in some parts of the world they can't even show their faces on the street...some male rock stars showed off their dicks on stage (i.e. Billy Joe from Green day) and it was just not a big deal was it? it's a shame what was made out of Janet's performance back then..it is a shame that people still treat sex as something dirty rather than natural...

xLiberiangirl said:

look at this....

this is very interesting..

http://www.thesun.co.uk/s...at-53.html

NSFW btw.. if you click on it.

and this is coming from 3 crazy hardcore stans Muahahahahaha

Self empowerment my ass. Wouldn't all of us like to feel a whole lot more empowered by letting our genitals hang out? Why draw the line at the boobs.

Could it be the age old story of objectification for objectifications sake?

Madonna was at the center of this topic during her heyday and maybe we still haven't recovered from it.

People will always ask, after the fight for women's rights and liberation, why a woman would objectify herself when she didn't have to, and debate that even if she is the reason for her own objectification (many will argue she is never really the reason for her own objectification) is it in fact still objectification?

Sometimes it's tricky. It looks like "Rolling Stone" and "GQ" never have a clothed woman on their covers, and they are music and mens fashion magazines. If a woman refused a cover because she didn't want to be shown in her underwear would she be refused the cover?

go2theMax said:

'Is Madonna losing her shock value?

No! The proof is that here's a several pages debate about wether it's ok or not 4 a 50+ female artist 2 flash her tit on her show. Well, she does it becuz she can...we're living in a word where women are still repressed, in some parts of the world they can't even show their faces on the street...some male rock stars showed off their dicks on stage (i.e. Billy Joe from Green day) and it was just not a big deal was it? it's a shame what was made out of Janet's performance back then..it is a shame that people still treat sex as something dirty rather than natural...

It's all about social, cultural and religious boundaries. You can't force people to cover up and yet you can't allow them to run buck naked in your backyard either. That's where reasonable limits come in.

Who determines those limits is a whole another debate but it sure as hell ain't Madonna or any other artist.

Xscaper said:

xLiberiangirl said:

oh lol.

Here we go again. Madonna does what she wants. she doesn't care about age, or if it's shocking or not. well, of course she kinda likes to shock. but she does what she wants. that's what I always loved about Madonna. that's why I see her as inspiration, for me... as young lady.

And who cares that she is 53? she is not allowed to show her tit? just because she's ''old''? oh come on!!! she looks very good for her age, and she isn't ''old''.. people should do what they want, no matter what their age is!!

just saying.

So you're inspired by someone who makes it okay for grandmas to flash their nipples whenever and wherever they please coz they just don't give a damn about what anyone around them thinks?

It doesn't really matter whether her tits look good or not. The principle is what's important. Certain age ranges signify expected changes in human behaviour. A mother should at least try and set a good example for her kids if not for anyone else. Next thing we know Lourdes has her tits out at walmart because she doesn't give a damn what others think(like her mom).

Madonna had been socially relevant(as a lot of braindead teenagers still listen to her music for some reason)but never accepted the responsibility of being a good role model.

Xscaper said:

go2theMax said:

'Is Madonna losing her shock value?

No! The proof is that here's a several pages debate about wether it's ok or not 4 a 50+ female artist 2 flash her tit on her show. Well, she does it becuz she can...we're living in a word where women are still repressed, in some parts of the world they can't even show their faces on the street...some male rock stars showed off their dicks on stage (i.e. Billy Joe from Green day) and it was just not a big deal was it? it's a shame what was made out of Janet's performance back then..it is a shame that people still treat sex as something dirty rather than natural...

It's all about social, cultural and religious boundaries. You can't force people to cover up and yet you can't allow them to run buck naked in your backyard either. That's where reasonable limits come in.

Who determines those limits is a whole another debate but it sure as hell ain't Madonna or any other artist.

there's no reason 4 anyone 2 be ashamed of their bodies...there's nothing reasonable about these limits u're talking about. Treat it like some kind of forbidden fruit won't teach any good lessons 2 kids or whatever, it just teachs them 2 classify a woman who has no feasr 2 express herself as a slut..the same way girls and women that wear some kind of provocative clothes are labelled. I'm afraid of conservative people..they're the ones that've been setting all kinds of wrong concepts.

go2theMax said:

'Is Madonna losing her shock value?

No! The proof is that here's a several pages debate about wether it's ok or not 4 a 50+ female artist 2 flash her tit on her show. Well, she does it becuz she can...we're living in a word where women are still repressed, in some parts of the world they can't even show their faces on the street...some male rock stars showed off their dicks on stage (i.e. Billy Joe from Green day) and it was just not a big deal was it? it's a shame what was made out of Janet's performance back then..it is a shame that people still treat sex as something dirty rather than natural...

I agree!

WaterInYourBath said:

Xscaper said:

So you're inspired by someone who makes it okay for grandmas to flash their nipples whenever and wherever they please coz they just don't give a damn about what anyone around them thinks?

It doesn't really matter whether her tits look good or not. The principle is what's important. Certain age ranges signify expected changes in human behaviour. A mother should at least try and set a good example for her kids if not for anyone else. Next thing we know Lourdes has her tits out at walmart because she doesn't give a damn what others think(like her mom).

Madonna had been socially relevant(as a lot of braindead teenagers still listen to her music for some reason)but never accepted the responsibility of being a good role model.

exaggerations, irrational

Where did Madonna make it ok to flash a nipple whenever & wherever? Give us some other examples of her doing it in public at the Kabbalah Center at an award show, in the street?? She did it once at her concert.

Why do artists have to be good role models. Unless it's as an artist? You think she would be talked about and still selling out concerts if she did what many thought she should do back even in the 1990's and "be a good role model" Do you say the same for Prince?

Even Prince started showing some skin again in the last few years and showing off his ass cause he's been working out. Maybe he shouldn't wear those pants without underwear that showcase his penis outline...

OldFriends4Sale said:

WaterInYourBath said:

exaggerations, irrational

Where did Madonna make it ok to flash a nipple whenever & wherever? Give us some other examples of her doing it in public at the Kabbalah Center at an award show, in the street?? She did it once at her concert.

Why do artists have to be good role models. Unless it's as an artist? You think she would be talked about and still selling out concerts if she did what many thought she should do back even in the 1990's and "be a good role model" Do you say the same for Prince?

Even Prince started showing some skin again in the last few years and showing off his ass cause he's been working out. Maybe he shouldn't wear those pants without underwear that showcase his penis outline...

It looks like we're not on the same page here. Irrespective of whether or not it's acceptable to get your tits out, i am questioning Madonna's intention in exposing herself.

Was it supposed to be a statement? Was it just some sexy fun? Was it just an impulsive accident?

I am just trying to understand the purpose behind the action. Maybe i am just used to analyzing things that way.

If she feels women(especially older women) should be allowed to expose themselves similar to men then why doesn't she do it everywhere? Why only do it at her own concert?

And if she believes that how could she ask her children not to follow suit and be nudists?

On the other hand, if she feels she has the right to do this because she is a show girl and an entertainer then that's a totally different situation. Then it's not a political statement. It's just a frivilous horny act carried out by a self conscious older woman.

It seems to me that different fans are taking different inferences from her action. Some are defending it as a statement fighting for women rights and equality. Others are justifying it as a spontaneous impulsive act by an unpredictable entertainer. It's just not possible to have a coherent discussion about this without first defining what her action signifies.

Coming to your questions though, i do think artists have to be good role models in their personel lives because like it or not, a lot of their fans are very impressionable and young. Some even treat their artists as dieties. Now that's fucked up but it happens. So when you come into the limelight you are held to a higher standard by default since whatever you're gonna do millions will follow suit. That's just how it goes. A random granny taking out her tit at a concert won't inspire anyone. Madonna would. If that was her intention then more power to her but at least be clear with her messages. If she hadn't used sex and other forms of controversy she'd probably be not as popular now as she is but she'd sure as hell have a lot more artistic integrity.

Prince hasn't been a perfect role model either but he's done better than Madonna for sure. I would lose the heels though. Nothing wrong with being small.

overanalyres (gasp)

I don't see Madonna as my role model. no. but I do think she's inspiring. she does a lot of good things. she makes good statements. she always have made statements about sexuality.... so she's still doing it now. this was also a statement of hers.. she wants to show people that older woman shouldn't be ashamed of their bodies.. simply as that. she recently spoke about ageism and stuff like that. she is very against it all. she thinks older woman should be allowed to be sexual, and adventurous. but of course people will only see the negative stuff. She's human like you and me. so of course she can do stupid things..... I think you shouldn't see people as role model. that you really should do everything your idol does cuz that's not good. I don't do that. I admire and respect Madonna so much for what she been through and for her being so fearless, and just being herself.

[Edited 6/15/12 12:45pm]

NeonCraxx said:

If my favorite artist, for example Prince or MJ showed their dicks on stage randomly, I would have a problem with it and not go out of my way to defend them just because of who they are. And I defend them A LOT! Madonna cleavage is not even remotely attractive, at least Janet had something to show.

While I consider Janet a very attractive woman Madonna's exposed breast looks a lot better than the one Janet showed IMO. I was really shocked back then to see what it looked like. At the same time I cannotunderstand at all why Americans made such a drama over nothing.

there are only a few things that are funnier than shcoking selfrighteous people

go2theMax said:

Xscaper said:

It's all about social, cultural and religious boundaries. You can't force people to cover up and yet you can't allow them to run buck naked in your backyard either. That's where reasonable limits come in.

Who determines those limits is a whole another debate but it sure as hell ain't Madonna or any other artist.

there's no reason 4 anyone 2 be ashamed of their bodies...there's nothing reasonable about these limits u're talking about. Treat it like some kind of forbidden fruit won't teach any good lessons 2 kids or whatever, it just teachs them 2 classify a woman who has no feasr 2 express herself as a slut..the same way girls and women that wear some kind of provocative clothes are labelled. I'm afraid of conservative people..they're the ones that've been setting all kinds of wrong concepts.

I hear that but what would you think of guys walking around with boners? Our bodies are sexual things. There's no denying that. Men are visual creatures and get aroused just by looking at the female body shape, curves and all. Skin serves as further stimulus.

Are you seriously telling me that if we all start walking around naked there won't be a huge stampede of people trying to fuck each other and it won't get awkward?

Some women don't understand the concept of men being more visually arousable creatures when they talk of equality and their right to be as naked as men. They don't realize that male brain works slightly different to theirs.

Women who dress provocatively are called sluts out of sexual frustration. They make men horny and that's the only way they can vent it out. Imagine if women started going all naked. It'll just make it worse.