silverchild said:

Timmy84 said:

Not that I'm saying you're wrong, silverchild, but if he was blackballed as you say, how come he was still making top ten hits into 2001?

I'm with smooth about this, but then again I can get why he didn't wanna continue his career like that because of his kids. It's tough.

That is a true point. I guess I'm talking about overall impact. Michael was already considered an icon by 1979 onward. That never changed, but by the 90s, his appeal kind've declined across the board. Some of it was due to Michael's playful tactics with the media, but alot of it was about Sony and what they were trying to do here to further manipulate Michael. Even though those singles and album sales were hitting strong, something was off...

I always thought it was a mistake he signed with Sony... they didn't have his best interest like CBS did.

Cloudbuster said:

Timmy84 said:

Oh no I agree with that. But that's how the media is.

They make you and break you. Scum, aren't they.

Yup.

Cloudbuster said:

Timmy84 said:

Oh no I agree with that. But that's how the media is.

They make you and break you. Scum, aren't they.

Umm hmm. 24/7.

Timmy84 said:

I always thought it was a mistake he signed with Sony... they didn't have his best interest like CBS did.

Sony bought CBS in 1988.

silverchild said:

Cloudbuster said:

They make you and break you. Scum, aren't they.

Umm hmm. 24/7.

Right.

Cloudbuster said:

Timmy84 said:

I always thought it was a mistake he signed with Sony... they didn't have his best interest like CBS did.

Sony bought CBS in 1988.

Yeah I know, just wished he hadn't signed in 1991 but I guess he felt no other label would give him a big deal.

Timmy84 said:

Cloudbuster said:

Sony bought CBS in 1988.

Yeah I know, just wished he hadn't signed in 1991 but I guess he felt no other label would give him a big deal.

Yeah, he almost signed with Geffen but Sony finally offered him a better deal.

Within five years they didn't give a shit about him, all they wanted was his music catalogue.

Timmy84 said:

silverchild said:

That is a true point. I guess I'm talking about overall impact. Michael was already considered an icon by 1979 onward. That never changed, but by the 90s, his appeal kind've declined across the board. Some of it was due to Michael's playful tactics with the media, but alot of it was about Sony and what they were trying to do here to further manipulate Michael. Even though those singles and album sales were hitting strong, something was off...

I always thought it was a mistake he signed with Sony... they didn't have his best interest like CBS did.

I mean you see how they did HIStory and Invincible. It was as if the "Michael Jackson is BACK!" slogans that were being plastered around by the media were starting to fade away here in the US, even before it started gaining momentum and he became the puppet of jokes.

I remember when the night that the "You Rock My World" video came out, people were going crazy and in astonishment about Michael's style and the newest single. Then, the 30th Anniversary special aired and...well, the rest is history.

[Edited 6/21/12 18:36pm]

silverchild said:

Timmy84 said:

I always thought it was a mistake he signed with Sony... they didn't have his best interest like CBS did.

I mean you see how they did HIStory and Invincible. It was as if the "Michael Jackson is BACK!" slogans that were being plastered around by the media were starting to fade away here in the US, even before it started gaining momentum and he became the puppet of jokes.

I remember when the night that the "You Rock My World" video came out, people were going crazy and in astonishment about Michael's style and the newest single. Then, the 30th Anniversary special aired and...well, the rest is history.

I think doing that special was not a good idea. Obviously Michael wasn't ready and didn't wanna do it... of course it didn't help Whitney Houston either.

Timmy84 said:

silverchild said:

I mean you see how they did HIStory and Invincible. It was as if the "Michael Jackson is BACK!" slogans that were being plastered around by the media were starting to fade away here in the US, even before it started gaining momentum and he became the puppet of jokes.

I remember when the night that the "You Rock My World" video came out, people were going crazy and in astonishment about Michael's style and the newest single. Then, the 30th Anniversary special aired and...well, the rest is history.

I think doing that special was not a good idea. Obviously Michael wasn't ready and didn't wanna do it... of course it didn't help Whitney Houston either.

Nope. Just not a good time.

And on top of that, when Michael told Tommy Mottola that he was threatening to leave Sony, Tommy acted out and shut down everything that Invincible was about to be. That album would've took him through 3 years and it was promising to be even more massive than it was. Things really looked dim for Mike and it got even worse from there.

silverchild said:

Timmy84 said:

I think doing that special was not a good idea. Obviously Michael wasn't ready and didn't wanna do it... of course it didn't help Whitney Houston either.

Nope. Just not a good time.

And on top of that, when Michael told Tommy Mottola that he was threatening to leave Sony, Tommy acted out and shut down everything that Invincible was about to be. That album would've took him through 3 years and it was promising to be even more massive than it was. Things really looked dim for Mike and it got even worse from there.

Mike actually felt he wasn't done with Invincible... that adds to it. Just a mess.

Timmy84 said:

silverchild said:

Nope. Just not a good time.

And on top of that, when Michael told Tommy Mottola that he was threatening to leave Sony, Tommy acted out and shut down everything that Invincible was about to be. That album would've took him through 3 years and it was promising to be even more massive than it was. Things really looked dim for Mike and it got even worse from there.

Mike actually felt he wasn't done with Invincible... that adds to it. Just a mess.

Yeah there were talks of starting on a new album a year or two after the album with songs he saved.

alphastreet said:

Timmy84 said:

Mike actually felt he wasn't done with Invincible... that adds to it. Just a mess.

Yeah there were talks of starting on a new album a year or two after the album with songs he saved.

I remember that. Somewhere in 2003 I believe.

silverchild said:

alphastreet said:

Yeah there were talks of starting on a new album a year or two after the album with songs he saved.

I remember that. Somewhere in 2003 I believe.

A blurb in an article sometime in 2002, and mentioning backstage at the BET awards he was working on an album (maybe it was two) and movie projects

alphastreet said:

The bottomline is that even with all the shit that Michael endured, he was STILL the BIGGEST star in the world when he died. There is NOBODY who could go through the stuff that Michael went through, not have an album to promote and STILL sell out 50 shows in ONE CITY. I have no doubt in my mind that if Michael had not been murdered by Conrad Murray, he would have had the biggest comeback in history. He was ready and he would have done this tour and continued it to other parts of the world, including the USA.

Free2BMe said:

The bottomline is that even with all the shit that Michael endured, he was STILL the BIGGEST star in the world when he died. There is NOBODY who could go through the stuff that Michael went through, not have an album to promote and STILL sell out 50 shows in ONE CITY. I have no doubt in my mind that if Michael had not been murdered by Conrad Murray, he would have had the biggest comeback in history. He was ready and he would have done this tour and continued it to other parts of the world, including the USA.

Absolutely! Fact is after Thriller Mike remained the biggest star in music history. period. Fans agonize that he wasn't celebrated because they dont realize/remember. He was the most awarded man in history (Guinness, sp.) 2 music awards in his name even - that had never happened to any live artist before. There were MJ fashions on runways. He did know he was loved dearly. He was still mobbed everywhere he went. Look at the fan support he received during the trial - thousands from all over the world (if you recall that first day). Even the month leading up to his death there's footage of crazed people running after his car, obstructing traffic as he leaves the dr. office in LA. The media were bastards,and there were the haters, but Mike knew how BIG he was; how much he was admired and love. He saw all the young stars imitating him.

Those Pharrell tracks have aged well. Last Night is my jam.

[Edited 6/22/12 7:51am]

Cloudbuster said:

aardvark15 said:

Cloudbuster said:

No shit they did. How much better the reception would have been had Unbreakable, Break Of Dawn, Speechlees, 2000 Watts and Whatever Happens been issued as singles.

I would have done 1. Unbreakable 2. You Rock My World 3. Break Of Dawn 4. Speechless/Butterflies (double a-side) 5. 2000 Watts (also would be released as a separate EP with more remixes) 6. Threatened (Released in October as airplay only single)

I never liked that song. I dont have a clue why Michael agreed to record it.

mjscarousal said:

aardvark15 said:

Cloudbuster said: I would have done 1. Unbreakable 2. You Rock My World 3. Break Of Dawn 4. Speechless/Butterflies (double a-side) 5. 2000 Watts (also would be released as a separate EP with more remixes) 6. Threatened (Released in October as airplay only single)

I never liked that song. I dont have a clue why Michael agreed to record it.

I think I remember reading a story that the singer Tyreese had written that song (he went on to name his album that came out a year before Invincible "2000 Watts") and that MJ heard the song itself and wanted to record it, or something to that effect..?

IMO "Shout" is ten times better than "2000 Watts"

aardvark15 said:

I would have done 1. Unbreakable 2. You Rock My World 3. Break Of Dawn 4. Speechless/Butterflies (double a-side) 5. 2000 Watts (also would be released as a separate EP with more remixes) 6. Threatened (Released in October as airplay only single)

Would have been cool to have seen a vid for Threatened, not sure it was single material though.

Especially in favour of Whatever Happens or even the title track.

mjscarousal said:

aardvark15 said:

Cloudbuster said: I would have done 1. Unbreakable 2. You Rock My World 3. Break Of Dawn 4. Speechless/Butterflies (double a-side) 5. 2000 Watts (also would be released as a separate EP with more remixes) 6. Threatened (Released in October as airplay only single)

I never liked that song. I dont have a clue why Michael agreed to record it.

Vanilli said:

mjscarousal said:

I never liked that song. I dont have a clue why Michael agreed to record it.

I think I remember reading a story that the singer Tyreese had written that song (he went on to name his album that came out a year before Invincible "2000 Watts") and that MJ heard the song itself and wanted to record it, or something to that effect..?

IMO "Shout" is ten times better than "2000 Watts"

Shout is on my pod in place of You Are My Life, which is where it was supposed to be until the tracklisting for Vince was changed a couple of months before it came out. You Are My Life is on my version of 'Michael' in place of one of those dreadful Cascio tracks.

Cloudbuster said:

mjscarousal said:

I never liked that song. I dont have a clue why Michael agreed to record it.

Muah

I still forgave my husband for that one Thats like the only song I really dont like on Invincible

[Edited 6/22/12 10:08am]

Cloudbuster said:

aardvark15 said:

I would have done 1. Unbreakable 2. You Rock My World 3. Break Of Dawn 4. Speechless/Butterflies (double a-side) 5. 2000 Watts (also would be released as a separate EP with more remixes) 6. Threatened (Released in October as airplay only single)

Would have been cool to have seen a vid for Threatened, not sure it was single material though.

Especially in favour of Whatever Happens or even the title track.

I think Threatened would have a been a good airplay single. I could see that song being played heavily around Halloween of 2001 or 2002. While I love Invincible and Whatever Happens I don't think they sound really commercial. The only thing that sounds commercial about Whatever Happens is the Santana guitar solo.

Cloudbuster said:

Vanilli said:

I think I remember reading a story that the singer Tyreese had written that song (he went on to name his album that came out a year before Invincible "2000 Watts") and that MJ heard the song itself and wanted to record it, or something to that effect..?

IMO "Shout" is ten times better than "2000 Watts"

Shout is on my pod in place of You Are My Life, which is where it was supposed to be until the tracklisting for Vince was changed a couple of months before it came out. You Are My Life is on my version of 'Michael' in place of one of those dreadful Cascio tracks.

On my Ipod I put Shout and XScape after Threatened. I always put the unreleased songs from the era after the main album.

Cloudbuster said:

aardvark15 said:

I would have done 1. Unbreakable 2. You Rock My World 3. Break Of Dawn 4. Speechless/Butterflies (double a-side) 5. 2000 Watts (also would be released as a separate EP with more remixes) 6. Threatened (Released in October as airplay only single)

Would have been cool to have seen a vid for Threatened, not sure it was single material though.

Especially in favour of Whatever Happens or even the title track.

I LOVE Threatened, that would have been a great video

[img:$uid]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m61h3pV76x1qg4hbbo1_500.jpg[/img:$uid]

Fan-led project ‘Everland’ by Michael Jackson’s Legacy has today raised all the £15,000 necessary to build the children’s home in a slum district on the outskirts of Monrovia, Liberia. MJL enabled fans from across the world to come together to raise funds for this much needed home which will house 50 homeless, orphaned and/or neglected children in one of the poorest countries in the world. It is the first time fans of a known figure have come together to do something of this nature. Michael Jackson’s legacy of love clearly lives on in the hearts of those who heard his message to ‘make that change’.

This past Sunday was Mother's Day at the church in Liberia and all the Everland children received gifts and cards from fans, as well as washcloth babies sent from young girls from Hawaii's Calvary Chapel Central Oahu. The washcloths are folded in such a way that they look like a little baby. The pastor reports, 'The kids were sooo happy and did not want to leave the church compound after the service.' 17 Liberian children are being sponsored by dedicated fans around the world. Their lives are being transformed and it's clear from this picture that they're overjoyed!

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/zzrtP.jpg[/img:$uid]

Just nine months since MJL launched and ALL 17 EVERLAND CHILDREN are now being sponsored! Gratitude and thanks go out to our latest sponsors Michelle and Clayton, for committing to sponsor little Eric ♥ Samuel (Italy), Carissia, Mat and Frank (USA), Jennie (Ireland), Linh (Vietnam), Karen (USA), Kim (USA), Sam (England), Liz (USA), Lauren (USA), Tina (Germany), Kaye (Australia), Manu (Austria), Mary and Janene (Australia), Astrid (France), Geertje (Netherlands) and Michelle and Clayton (USA). You are all changing children's lives in Michael's memory. He would be so happy, so proud to see this! :')))
Just nine months since MJL launched and ALL 17 EVERLAND CHILDREN are now being sponsored! Gratitude and thanks go out to our latest sponsors Michelle and Clayton, for committing to sponsor little Eric ♥ Samuel (Italy), Carissia, Mat and Frank (USA), Jennie (Ireland), Linh (Vietnam), Karen (USA), Kim (USA), Sam (England), Liz (USA), Lauren (USA), Tina (Germany), Kaye (Australia), Manu (Austria), Mary and Janene (Australia), Astrid (France), Geertje (Netherlands) and Michelle and Clayton (USA). You are all changing children's lives in Michael's memory. He would be so happy, so proud to see this! :')))

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/60E1i.jpg[/img:$uid]

God Bless those children, Thank You to all the fans who helped make this happen and Thank You Michael for the inspiration

godyssey said:

Yes, although I don't like to admit it, Thriller was a fluke. Not that it wasn't great, it's just that the musical climate was different then and he could reach more people. Although, from what I understand, Adele (of whom I really have no knowledge of) seems to be experiencing a similar amount of success. I actually don't care enough to think about how that could happen again, in this time, but I digress.

Thriller, a fluke? Ha! That's a great one. And saying Adele has a similar amount of success? Michael sold out 50 shows at London's O2 Arena in a few hours. Not a few weeks or months, but hours. Adele couldn't sell out 10 shows there a year in advance. Yes, she's very popular, but 10 years from now, there won't be an iconic memory of her 21 album.

I like Prince more, but I'd be foolish to admit that he really sold out his 21 Nights in London, though it was billed as such after the fact to build hype. Most of them sold out, but tickets were available for the last few shows up to showtime.

Thriller is the measuring stick all albums that sell a lot will be measured by. Worldwide sales of Thriller are likely very close to, but likely a little lower than the worldwide numbers of Prince's ENTIRE catalog. Adele could sell 1 million copies of 21 for the next 21 years, and it would still be behind Thriller.