SchlomoThaHomo said:

neonlights said:

Britney never tried to to gain acceptance from Urban audience like Justin Timberlake has.

Maybe not on that level...but if I recall correctly, along with the Kelly track, she did have a song featuring the Ying Yang Twins on that album as well as a few that Tricky and Dream worked on.

And lets all orgers never forget about THIS Prince/Vanity6 inspired track:

The Neptunes produced THAT^. The video also has a few ideas borrowed from Larry Blackmon & Janet Jackson, all black folks.

More than half of Blackout is very urban-inspired. Same thing with Justin's last one, FutureSex/Love Sounds.

lastdecember said:

TonyVanDam said:

The Jacksons.................The Osmonds

New Edition (NE)...........New Kids On The Block (NKOTB)

RUN DMC.......................The Beastie Boys

Hammer...........................Vanilla Ice

Shabba Ranks................Snow

Well let me fire up the clip from last week where LL Cool J said "without the Beastie Boys, i wouldnt be here, they put me on the map" So the whole "race" shit is exactly that "SHIT" putting labels on music now is worse than it ever was, as i said before, just because now a greater % interracial date and marry doesnt mean that peoples eyes are open wider, they arent, there minds are as closed as ever, i saw more people interracially dating when i was in Highschool later 80's than now, just now its polarized like a carnival side show, then it just was. So we can go back and forth who put who on the map and who is responsible for rock n roll and this and that and the other. As for the Mariah thing, well truth is she was never denying who she was, however she was doing what it took to "SELL", so lets seperate those things, she never denied who she was but early on she was going to whatever path she had to take to sell, which is what this article is accusing the likes of Xtina and Justin and whatever artist. Its a dumb article written by someone with NO credentials whatsoever, and they knew it would stir shit up, just like an artist stirs shit up to sell, so do fake journalists.

I'm trying to keep it positive in the thread. LL was just being kind. LL actually dropped

his debut album for Def Jam a year before the Beastie Boys dropped their debut for

the label. LL had already blown up with I Can't Live Without My Radio and Rock the Bells. He's always given Run DMC mainly Joseph Simmons credit as his inspiration for getting in the rap game. That's not taking anything away from the Beastie Boys accomplishments but the truth is the truth.

[Edited 5/14/12 21:53pm]

Terrib3Towel said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Say that shit again about his vitiligo (PROVEN in the autopsy).

Did he also have chronic silky hair?

This actually made me laugh out loud.

phunkdaddy said:

lastdecember said:

Well let me fire up the clip from last week where LL Cool J said "without the Beastie Boys, i wouldnt be here, they put me on the map" So the whole "race" shit is exactly that "SHIT" putting labels on music now is worse than it ever was, as i said before, just because now a greater % interracial date and marry doesnt mean that peoples eyes are open wider, they arent, there minds are as closed as ever, i saw more people interracially dating when i was in Highschool later 80's than now, just now its polarized like a carnival side show, then it just was. So we can go back and forth who put who on the map and who is responsible for rock n roll and this and that and the other. As for the Mariah thing, well truth is she was never denying who she was, however she was doing what it took to "SELL", so lets seperate those things, she never denied who she was but early on she was going to whatever path she had to take to sell, which is what this article is accusing the likes of Xtina and Justin and whatever artist. Its a dumb article written by someone with NO credentials whatsoever, and they knew it would stir shit up, just like an artist stirs shit up to sell, so do fake journalists.

I'm trying to keep it positive in the thread. LL was just being kind. LL actually dropped

his debut album for Def Jam a year before the Beastie Boys dropped their debut for

the label. LL had already blown up with I Can't Live Without My Radio. He's always given

Run DMC mainly Joseph Simmons credit as his inspiration for getting in the rap game.

That's not taking anything away from the Beastie Boys accomplishments but the truth

is the truth.

THAT^ is true. But touring with the Beastie Boys did help LL get to the MTV audience a lot sooner.

phunkdaddy said:

lastdecember said:

Well let me fire up the clip from last week where LL Cool J said "without the Beastie Boys, i wouldnt be here, they put me on the map" So the whole "race" shit is exactly that "SHIT" putting labels on music now is worse than it ever was, as i said before, just because now a greater % interracial date and marry doesnt mean that peoples eyes are open wider, they arent, there minds are as closed as ever, i saw more people interracially dating when i was in Highschool later 80's than now, just now its polarized like a carnival side show, then it just was. So we can go back and forth who put who on the map and who is responsible for rock n roll and this and that and the other. As for the Mariah thing, well truth is she was never denying who she was, however she was doing what it took to "SELL", so lets seperate those things, she never denied who she was but early on she was going to whatever path she had to take to sell, which is what this article is accusing the likes of Xtina and Justin and whatever artist. Its a dumb article written by someone with NO credentials whatsoever, and they knew it would stir shit up, just like an artist stirs shit up to sell, so do fake journalists.

I'm trying to keep it positive in the thread. LL was just being kind. LL actually dropped

his debut album for Def Jam a year before the Beastie Boys dropped their debut for

the label. LL had already blown up with I Can't Live Without My Radio and Rock the Bells. He's always given Run DMC mainly Joseph Simmons credit as his inspiration for getting in the rap game. That's not taking anything away from the Beastie Boys accomplishments but the truth is the truth.

[Edited 5/14/12 21:53pm]

his quote has nothing to do with "inspiration" or "timing" he said about putting on the "map", meaning WIDE appeal, and sorry but LL did not have WIDE appeal early on, which is what he was acknowledging, he was putting things in proper perspective, The Beastie Boys came out after him, WHICH they clearly acknowledging in interviews talking about their own inspirations, BUT LL is talking about WIDE APPEAL not who came out first.

I guess I would agree with the idea that some use it and some abuse it but any list of who's on what side is going to be just like one of those Rolling Stone' Best Guitarists Ever lists.

Or a list of which artists sold out vs stayed true to their ideals.

How do you really know if some particular white person has a true relationship to black culture?

If the music is good, they seem to get a pass. I don't know what other test you could possibly use.

Vanilla Ice was talking on TV about how he came from the Street which turned out to be a lie. But really the stupid idea is him trying to claim credit for making authentic art because he lived in a bad neighborhood. - like Ice Ice Baby would be SO MUCH better if you thought it was made by somebody born and raised in Compton or South Bronx. The fact that his music totally sucks, makes his a clear case of abuse.

Ones that used it following my own criteria, have included Benny Goodman, Gene Krupa, Gerry Mulligan, Chet Baker, Charlie Haden, Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Keith Richards, the drummer from Sly and the Family Stone Gregg Errico and DJ Shadow.

[Edited 5/14/12 23:09pm]

MickyDolenz said:

alphastreet said:

reggaeton is another example of this, and I'm sure some rock & roll as well.

I don't know anything about reggaeton other than all of the few songs I've heard sound alike and that Gasolina song that people were playing over and over at work.

I admit that song was a guilty pleasure, until I found out what it meant I think Chacaron Macaron is the stupidest song and gets stuck in my head.

Wow, this age old debate. Fine wanna be fair... let me turn this around a bit & ask.. what about black artists that turn there back on other black artists simply for working with white artists

A couple examples, when Sting after The Police got an all black band, his white audience where like wtf? why are you playing with all these jazz artists. And than the black community was like wtf? why are you playing with this white artists. It ended up beign a hit(and imo great album but that's just my 2 cents) But people made a big deal(blacks & whites) over something silly, than there is of course Whitney & all those blacks accused of trying to act white.

I'm suprised no one cried about Clarence playign with bruce since some peopel seem so sensitive. If you are a good musician.... you are a good musician. No matter WHAT COLOR but they will say white artists abuse urban culture & turn there bacj influences, but black artists can do the exact same & turn there back to. Or be cruel for no reason because a black artists plays with a white artists

at-least in punk music no one seems to care, there where black & whites playing in The Dead Kenndys & Bad Brains no one gave a fuck and that's how it should be. No accusations of stealing this or that or turning backs.

TonyVanDam said:

phunkdaddy said:

I'm trying to keep it positive in the thread. LL was just being kind. LL actually dropped

his debut album for Def Jam a year before the Beastie Boys dropped their debut for

the label. LL had already blown up with I Can't Live Without My Radio. He's always given

Run DMC mainly Joseph Simmons credit as his inspiration for getting in the rap game.

That's not taking anything away from the Beastie Boys accomplishments but the truth

is the truth.

THAT^ is true. But touring with the Beastie Boys did help LL get to the MTV audience a lot sooner.

Remember Run DMC were on that tour too.

phunkdaddy said:

TonyVanDam said:

THAT^ is true. But touring with the Beastie Boys did help LL get to the MTV audience a lot sooner.

Remember Run DMC were on that tour too.

LL got the audience from that tour and yes Run DMC were on it, but it was all happening at once and LL benefited from it, The Beasties album was exploding, and yes dmc was a huge hit, and they are the pioneers but i dont think at that point it was an even draw with dmc and beastie boys.

The Beasties were at Def Jam way before they released an album. The story is that Ad Rock had heard LL's demo and passed it on to either Russell Simmons or Rick Rubin. Rick was the main reason Kate Schellenbach was replaced with King Ad Rock. Kate said that Rick told her he didn't like the sound of female rappers.

lastdecember said:

phunkdaddy said:

Remember Run DMC were on that tour too.

LL got the audience from that tour and yes Run DMC were on it, but it was all happening at once and LL benefited from it, The Beasties album was exploding, and yes dmc was a huge hit, and they are the pioneers but i dont think at that point it was an even draw with dmc and beastie boys.

Run DMC had already opened the door for the Beasties. Run DMC had already opened

the floodgates for rap rock metal with Rock Box. The Beasties who were already doing their

own rock thing looked at Run DMC and saw what they were doing with rap and it inspired them to get in the game. I'm not doubting the Beasties help LL get exposure from MTV. LL would have gotten it one way or the other because he was quickly becoming one of the top dogs in rap at the time. For the purpose of this thread your previous post would have led one to believe that the Beastie Boys influenced LL Cool J from a musical perspective which

is not the case. Totally different rap styles. I'm not revisiting history to the point where i'm gonna search who was bigger Run or the Beasties but i would just take it they both were

equally big since they did co headline the Together Forever tour in the mid to late eighties.

If you have already read either LL Cool J's book I Make My Own Rules or Angus Batey's book Rhyming and Stealing: A History of the Beastie Boys, you may recall the following story of how James owes his start to Adam Horovitz of the Beastie Boys.

It all started in 1984, when LL Cool J took the time to mail Rick Rubin a demo tape. At the time James Todd Smith was 16 years old, Rick was still running his operation out of his dorm room at New York University. By this point, Rick had released T La Rock's "It's Yours" which the Beastie Boys would later cover in concert while on tour with Madonna (1985). It was from the address information on the T La Rock single that LL Cool J would get into contact with Rubin.

Excited to get a record deal, James called Rubin almost every day. Rick Rubin though had not yet come across the tape. When he did finally get a chance to listen to the tape, Rubin called LL Cool J on the phone and set up a meeting at his NYU dorm room. In his book, LL Cool J said the following about his first impression of Rick Rubin: "He laughed at my reaction to him and invited me up to a tiny room at the end of the hall. Mattresses were on the floor and records are tapes were thrown everywhere. I could see how my tape could have gotten lost. In fact, if it wasn't for Adrock of the Beastie Boys, I might still be sending in those tapes. Adrock had been chillin' in Rick's room, rummaging through all the tapes, and somehow he fished mine out and played it. I guess he liked what he heard and brought it to Rick's attention. My man Adrock: Good lookin' out, baby."

Rick and James would go on to spend $700 to record "I Need a Beat" and sell 100,000 copies of it. From that point on LL Cool J was an entertainment superstar. In addition to his music, James has made quite a name for himself in Hollywood. Having made various appearances on television shows as well as nearly twenty-five movies, time and time again LL Cool J proven that he has range.

If you loved the metal guitar + rhymes recipe of Licensed to Ill, more than likely you'll find yourself loving LL Cool J's early work. Rick Rubin added his signature sound to LL Cool J's first album Radio. After the success of Radio, LL enlisted The L.A. Posse to help him in the recording the follow up Bigger and Deffer. Glen E. Friedman's photo of a young LL Cool J was selected for the cover. However, it was the team of James and Rick which would reunite and create the hit single "Going Back to Cali" in 1988.

LL & Ad Rock

alphastreet said:

MickyDolenz said:

I don't know anything about reggaeton other than all of the few songs I've heard sound alike and that Gasolina song that people were playing over and over at work.

I admit that song was a guilty pleasure, until I found out what it meant I think Chacaron Macaron is the stupidest song and gets stuck in my head.

There was an older Mexican guy there who only listened to tejano, and even he knew Gasolina. That might be because he had teenagers.

[Edited 5/15/12 15:44pm]

phunkdaddy said:

lastdecember said:

LL got the audience from that tour and yes Run DMC were on it, but it was all happening at once and LL benefited from it, The Beasties album was exploding, and yes dmc was a huge hit, and they are the pioneers but i dont think at that point it was an even draw with dmc and beastie boys.

Run DMC had already opened the door for the Beasties. Run DMC had already opened

the floodgates for rap rock metal with Rock Box. The Beasties who were already doing their

own rock thing looked at Run DMC and saw what they were doing with rap and it inspired them to get in the game. I'm not doubting the Beasties help LL get exposure from MTV. LL would have gotten it one way or the other because he was quickly becoming one of the top dogs in rap at the time. For the purpose of this thread your previous post would have led one to believe that the Beastie Boys influenced LL Cool J from a musical perspective which

is not the case. Totally different rap styles. I'm not revisiting history to the point where i'm gonna search who was bigger Run or the Beasties but i would just take it they both were

equally big since they did co headline the Together Forever tour in the mid to late eighties.

Well very true but again The Beasties were doing something that alot jumped on too, as was pointed out in a previous in their book and ll's, The beasties for all things, were a punk band basically, till they started to go to clubs illegally because of their age and heard the records like furious five grandmaster, etc,,,, the records that pioneered the genre. They were punk when punk was dieing out late 70's very very early 80's. But as they said in interviews they mentioned LL quite alot, because it really was a unified movement, i dont think LL was jacking their flow, BUT, his early sound was def much like what they were doing at the time, i mean lets take LL later in his career and his sound, you go from Rock the Bells to tracks with the Dream that are heavy RB mainstream, the beasties rarely strayed from the sound in fact if anything they got more harder in to rock and that edge. So im saying any wouldnt have made it without the other, but it was pretty much in unison what they two were doing early on, and even the beasties said in 2004 to Charilie Rose, "we have like 9 albums and LL has like 16 hes doing laps around us" this was in response to charlie saying that the beasties often took long gaps of time between records, so i think mentioning LL and him mentioning them numerous times showed that each were growing together

MickyDolenz said:

Or we could continue to have a civil discussion and those who aren't feeling

it could go on to the next thread.

phunkdaddy said:

lastdecember said:

phunkdaddy said:

Run DMC had already opened the door for the Beasties. Run DMC had already opened

the floodgates for rap rock metal with Rock Box. The Beasties who were already doing their

own rock thing looked at Run DMC and saw what they were doing with rap and it inspired them to get in the game. I'm not doubting the Beasties help LL get exposure from MTV. LL would have gotten it one way or the other because he was quickly becoming one of the top dogs in rap at the time. For the purpose of this thread your previous post would have led one to believe that the Beastie Boys influenced LL Cool J from a musical perspective which

is not the case. Totally different rap styles. I'm not revisiting history to the point where i'm gonna search who was bigger Run or the Beasties but i would just take it they both were

equally big since they did co headline the Together Forever tour in the mid to late eighties.

Well very true but again The Beasties were doing something that alot jumped on too, as was pointed out in a previous in their book and ll's, The beasties for all things, were a punk band basically, till they started to go to clubs illegally because of their age and heard the records like furious five grandmaster, etc,,,, the records that pioneered the genre. They were punk when punk was dieing out late 70's very very early 80's. But as they said in interviews they mentioned LL quite alot, because it really was a unified movement, i dont think LL was jacking their flow, BUT, his early sound was def much like what they were doing at the time, i mean lets take LL later in his career and his sound, you go from Rock the Bells to tracks with the Dream that are heavy RB mainstream, the beasties rarely strayed from the sound in fact if anything they got more harder in to rock and that edge. So im saying any wouldnt have made it without the other, but it was pretty much in unison what they two were doing early on, and even the beasties said in 2004 to Charilie Rose, "we have like 9 albums and LL has like 16 hes doing laps around us" this was in response to charlie saying that the beasties often took long gaps of time between records, so i think mentioning LL and him mentioning them numerous times showed that each were growing together

Beasties were still punk in 1984, I remember them being on a bill with Suicidal Tendencies, or was it the Meatmen, in summer or fall of that year. I didn't see them. My friends who went said they weren't very good. But that must have been one of their last gigs on the hardcore scene, I was shocked when I heard they were opening the Madonna tour like a year after that. I thought, why is Madonna having a screechy hardcore band open for her? I had heard Cookie Puss but figured it was a novelty record instead of a new direction.

But by the time they were big, in 1987, I remember them and Run-DMC having a similar level of mainstream popularity. If my memory of the period is correct they were among the first rap acts that played arenas, followed by LL.

Anyway I like them. They seem like users not abusers.

SavonOsco said:

phunkdaddy said:

Or we could continue to have a civil discussion and those who aren't feeling

it could go on to the next thread.

This from the person that showed up after "someone else befor me" said this was a dumb thread and it's a race bait...and I say something similar and you telling me to leave ?..... No, let's discuss with civility if you want to... You came here to correct a poster about the Beasties...fine...but if L.L. Himself acknowledges them for helping his career, who are you to say he was just being gracious?...c'mon man Maybe you can give me a civil discussion about this?.... Do you think the Beasties,3rd Bass,House of Pain ...etc just jacked our culture ? [Edited 5/15/12 19:52pm]

Where in my post did i tell you to leave. I simply stated that some of us were having

a civil discussion . Your post seemed to imply that you had a problem with some

of us discussing the Beastie Boys and LL. If anything you made it seem like it wasn't

worth discussing. Then you bring up Emily King. I'm not an Emily King fan but i would

not gripe about you discussing her in this thread. My whole point about the Beasties was

simply the fact that they didn't influence LL from a musical perspective since this thread

is about said white artist jacking said black artist or vice versa. I never stated that the Beasties didn't help LL from a business standpoint. I don't think the Beasties jacked the culture. They embraced it and took it to suburbia. Run DMC knocked on the door and the Beasties helped kick it in. 3rd Bass and House of Pain were basically one hit wonders and they weren't even in the game past 15 minutes to discuss jacking the urban culture.

phunkdaddy said:

Thanks for the info, though I was also aware of Jamaican and Carribbean roots in reggaeton.

I'm going to change things up a bit. Let's talk about Asians (any part of the continent) and what you guys believe we are "supposed to sound like"

alphastreet said:

Thanks for the info, though I was also aware of Jamaican and Carribbean roots in reggaeton.

I'm going to change things up a bit. Let's talk about Asians (any part of the continent) and what you guys believe we are "supposed to sound like"

Ask and you shall receive

I've been watching clips of them for 2 years.

This is one of the original cover songs they are performing in the video

[Edited 5/16/12 19:08pm]

Nothing new exactly, the Tribe and the White Man have been ripping off Black Art forms for the last century or so, why are people surprised in the 21st?

For Urban culture, clowns like Timberlake, Gwen Stefani, Eminem, Bieber, Vanilla Ice, Aguiscara, Britney, and many other white acts insult Black culture with their "Black Act" by langauge, mannerisms, dress, and collaborations just to gain "street cred" or to appear more authentic. They are embarrasement to their respective ethnic background.

The artists mentioned are mere puppets, but its the Marketing/PR groups that pull the strings and guide the face of this bafoonery and coonery and as far as I am concerned the imitation of Black culture is no different than whites dressing up in Black Face and spitting out watermelon seeds.

TonyVanDam said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

Maybe not on that level...but if I recall correctly, along with the Kelly track, she did have a song featuring the Ying Yang Twins on that album as well as a few that Tricky and Dream worked on.

And lets all orgers never forget about THIS Prince/Vanity6 inspired track:

The Neptunes produced THAT^. The video also has a few ideas borrowed from Larry Blackmon & Janet Jackson, all black folks.

Well, Pharrell (The Neptunes) initially wrote this song for Janet Jackson.