21 > Thriller

Gunsnhalen said:

And if some people think Thriller is not a good album

Honestly, I think very few people think so actually.
I communicate mostly with rock fans, they often think that pop music mostly sucks, but even there, most of them have some respect for Thriller.
Thriller mixed many musical styles: pop, rock, rnb, funk. This is not one of my personal favorites, but the album is great, it is absolutely obvious.

LiLi1992 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

And if some people think Thriller is not a good album

Honestly, I think very few people think so actually.
I communicate mostly with rock fans, they often think that pop music mostly sucks, but even there, most of them have some respect for Thriller.
Thriller mixed many musical styles: pop, rock, rnb, funk. This is not one of my personal favorites, but the album is great, it is absolutely obvious.

I know many people who hate the album & think it's overrated. I myself think it is to, i like but i would Off The Wall or even History over it. But that is just MY opinion, and some don't like Thriller but if you like it that is all that should matter

Gunsnhalen said:

LiLi1992 said:

Honestly, I think very few people think so actually.
I communicate mostly with rock fans, they often think that pop music mostly sucks, but even there, most of them have some respect for Thriller.
Thriller mixed many musical styles: pop, rock, rnb, funk. This is not one of my personal favorites, but the album is great, it is absolutely obvious.

I know many people who hate the album & think it's overrated. I myself think it is to, i like but i would Off The Wall or even History over it. But that is just MY opinion, and some don't like Thriller but if you like it that is all that should matter

hmm, for me Bad, Dangerous, History>>>>>>>>Thriller

but nonetheless, I understand that Thriller - his main album and Billie Jean - the best and most influential pop song of the 80s.
In addition to personal taste, there is also a reality - a little different concept.

LiLi1992 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I know many people who hate the album & think it's overrated. I myself think it is to, i like but i would Off The Wall or even History over it. But that is just MY opinion, and some don't like Thriller but if you like it that is all that should matter

hmm, for me Bad, Dangerous, History>>>>>>>>Thriller

but nonetheless, I understand that Thriller - his main album and Billie Jean - the best and most influential pop song of the 80s.
In addition to personal taste, there is also a reality - a little different concept.

Whatever keeps you awake at night boo boo

Some just don't like MJ or where not influenced by him at all. Idk why that is so hard for some to accept. Just like not everyone was influenced by Prince or The Beatles. But you probably think The Beatles are number 1 to just because your told there the best right?

Some people find it difficult to believe that an album like hers could overtake Thriller in sales. I don't. The era, standards and ways music is marketed is completely different now from in the early 80s. Some people only consider artists who sell a certain amount to be mainstream while others consider artists that are marketed towards the mainstream to be mainstream even if the records they release didn't sell well. Nicole Sherzinger comes to mind as an example. Because of her success with PCD, some would call her mainstream but her solo CD sales were poor.

And for the record, people can claim that "Thriller is not a good album" all they want but that says more about them and their lack of objectivity than anything else. That record has been hailed as an outstanding pop record for decades. There is a reason for that: its a well made record. To debate this based on your preferences shows inability to be objective and lack of ability to assess music based on some sort of standard. It is also a sign of immaturity to argue by attempting to reduce everything down to opinion.

By that logic, we could argue that Nicki Minaj's CD is much better than Prince's last CD just because it sold more. That would be ignorant because it would be based on the idea that record sales define quality, which they don't.

I would gladly discuss quality but please do not interject sales into a discussion of "best" other than where numbers is concerned.

A man who is 5'10" is tall among a group of little people, yet not so tall standing among professional basketball players.

And I prefer Off The Wall to Thriller, too.

Gunsnhalen said:

mjscarousal said:

I dont quite understand alot of peoples logic when it comes to threads like this....

Okay Adele surprassed Michael by a couple units in the UK.. good for her BUT WHY are people trying to downplay the Thriller album in comparision to Adeles 21 album JUST becaue she surprassed it by a couple of units in the UK?

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. However, I feel that is a bit disrespectful and dumb logic to suggest that Thriller was just a "pop" album when it was much more than that.

I really like Adele. Shes refreshing in this trash music market we have today but personally, I choose Thriller oer 21 any day of the week, so sales really doesnt mean anything.

Thriller is POP album buts its a GOOD quality POP album... Adeles 21 album is NOT a POP album but JUST because its not a POP album doesnt necessarily make it better and just because it surpassed it doesnt really mean anything either.

To be honest, I would be surprised if it didnt being that Adele is a big pop star from the UK anyway...

And just because someone chooses to challenge or question an opinion being made doesnt necessarily mean their fighting or looking for one.. geezz like grow up its a message board people express opinions, people respond to posts etc, move along ...

MH, I'm cool with u & respect your opinon. But you seem to be a bit angry honestly

Yes, but come on let's not act like EVERY thread dealing with her sales don't turn to fights? people know what mainstream means. People are just starting fights, people take sales way to serously when they are not the ones being paid or the ones making the sales. Graycap & a lot of them think because there musicians they have higher opinion. And i say so what to them?

I play multiple instruments so what? does that make my opinion better HELL NO, just because someone is a musician doesn't mean they should be rude & downplay what others like. Just like Blaque in another thread said all of Keshas fans are trash

I dislike her music a lot, but i know people who like her music. Who are smart, intelligent people who just after a logn week of school or work wanna listen to music & dance it's just not that serious. And if some people think Thriller is not a good album that's there opinion to, some will like it some won't. But you do and that's all that should matter to you

How do I seem angry?

So just because I made a comment that applied to what YOU were suggesting in this thread I seem angry? No, you took it personal

You and some other folks that I am not going to mention ALWAYS go into threads making this disclaimer, that disclaimer that ( People are fighting or a fight is able to break out).. WHY? ITS ANNOYING when people are seriously trying to discuss/debate.. People make replies and people RESPOND... Everyone is not going to agree with everything but that doesnt necessarily mean people are looking to argue.

Like how me and you are conversing back and forth right now but in your mind you probably take this converse of back and forth as an arguement when ISNT . You expressed your opinion and now I am expressing mine...period.

Everything is not a arguement and every time someone replies to another post questining or saying they disagree doesnt mean they are looking for one. I just think thats beyond immature given the arena that we are in because that is the whole point of message boards. People MAKE posts and people respond. If you agree with everyones opinion or care not to express your disagreement with another post, then dont by why constantly suggest everytime someone else does their trying to start a fight or their arguing?

I admit ALOT of people here do argue but then ALOT of times as well I dont see that and all I see are people instigating fights by making disclaimers that people are fighting when they technically arent like in this case.

I cant speak for what Gray has said or whoever has said in others threads but just because someone is a musician or whatever doesnt necessarily mean they think their opinion is superior anytime it comes to music (even though their are some snobbish musicians not all are like that)...that can just be geniunely how they feel and to be honest, I think that snobbish to try to use that against them as to throw out their opinion or how they feel about a particular piece of musc.

Thats just like saying just because someone is black they must just only listen to rap music... I think its being to judgemental but I do agree some people are snobbish like that but not just musicians...anybody when it comes to music.

What I have notice now lately people are now making judgemental assessments on why people feel a certain way about music here at the org. According to some people here, if your a musician, if you prefer 50s music and your over 60 your considered old and snobbish if you dont like 2012 pop music I dont know I dont quite understand that because people like what they like and dislike what they dislike... period especially when they have listen to a WIDE range of music to come to the conclusion of their preference.

Everyone is not going to like everything like you said with Thriller but hell I like it and I dont care if anyone else doesnt and you know what else, any artist could beat it in sales and I would STILL like it....

But that wasnt the point though of my post... My point was the reasoning as to why some people in the thread wanted to downplay Thriller which was simply because Adele surpassed it by a few units which to me is a generic reason. Whether people like Thriller or not it was a turning point for pop music so it wasnt just a "pop" album.

[Edited 5/3/12 13:18pm]

Gunsnhalen said:

LiLi1992 said:

hmm, for me Bad, Dangerous, History>>>>>>>>Thriller

but nonetheless, I understand that Thriller - his main album and Billie Jean - the best and most influential pop song of the 80s.
In addition to personal taste, there is also a reality - a little different concept.

Whatever keeps you awake at night boo boo

Some just don't like MJ or where not influenced by him at all. Idk why that is so hard for some to accept. Just like not everyone was influenced by Prince or The Beatles. But you probably think The Beatles are number 1 to just because your told there the best right?

The Beatles really number 1 and it has nothing to do with public opinion. Their melodies and harmonies are brilliant.
And I did not write that Thriller like (or should enjoy) all .... different people with different tastes, but I do not believe that many people really think that Thriller is not a good album (it was done very, very well).

Okay, let's continue the conversation after you can understand the difference between "I don`t like" and "it's not good." Good night!

BlaqueKnight said:

Some people find it difficult to believe that an album like hers could overtake Thriller in sales. I don't. The era, standards and ways music is marketed is completely different now from in the early 80s. Some people only consider artists who sell a certain amount to be mainstream while others consider artists that are marketed towards the mainstream to be mainstream even if the records they release didn't sell well. Nicole Sherzinger comes to mind as an example. Because of her success with PCD, some would call her mainstream but her solo CD sales were poor.

And for the record, people can claim that "Thriller is not a good album" all they want but that says more about them and their lack of objectivity than anything else. That record has been hailed as an outstanding pop record for decades. There is a reason for that: its a well made record. To debate this based on your preferences shows inability to be objective and lack of ability to assess music based on some sort of standard. It is also a sign of immaturity to argue by attempting to reduce everything down to opinion.

By that logic, we could argue that Nicki Minaj's CD is much better than Prince's last CD just because it sold more. That would be ignorant because it would be based on the idea that record sales define quality, which they don't.

I would gladly discuss quality but please do not interject sales into a discussion of "best" other than where numbers is concerned.

A man who is 5'10" is tall among a group of little people, yet not so tall standing among professional basketball players.

And I prefer Off The Wall to Thriller, too.

Sorry man but i find that all a bit silly. For example, me & my room mate had many different tastes. And i used to argue with him because he didn't like U2, Bob Dylan, and several other artists that are highlly acclaimed. But i mean after time ir ealized there is no point, people like what they like. And my room mate wasn't to fond of Thriller either , he kind of taught me you can have diff opinions on music and it DOESN'T matter. The Joshua Tree & Highway 61 are known as some of the best albums of all time but he didn't like them & some of my other friend's don't. Ok.. that is not immaturity, some people just don't fucking like U2, Michael Jackson, Bob Dylan or Prince! it does not mean they are immature or being to objective.

I HATE the grateful dead & i HATE AC/DC but that is just cause i don't like the music. That doesn't make me to objective or stupid just cause i don't like an artists that others love.

LiLi1992 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Whatever keeps you awake at night boo boo

Some just don't like MJ or where not influenced by him at all. Idk why that is so hard for some to accept. Just like not everyone was influenced by Prince or The Beatles. But you probably think The Beatles are number 1 to just because your told there the best right?

The Beatles really number 1 and it has nothing to do with public opinion. Their melodies and harmonies are brilliant.
And I did not write that Thriller like (or should enjoy) all .... different people with different tastes, but I do not believe that many people really think that Thriller is not a good album (it was done very, very well).

Okay, let's continue the conversation after you can understand the difference between "I don`t like" and "it's not good." Good night!

Whatever helps you sleep at night luv.

mjscarousal said:

Gunsnhalen said:

MH, I'm cool with u & respect your opinon. But you seem to be a bit angry honestly

Yes, but come on let's not act like EVERY thread dealing with her sales don't turn to fights? people know what mainstream means. People are just starting fights, people take sales way to serously when they are not the ones being paid or the ones making the sales. Graycap & a lot of them think because there musicians they have higher opinion. And i say so what to them?

I play multiple instruments so what? does that make my opinion better HELL NO, just because someone is a musician doesn't mean they should be rude & downplay what others like. Just like Blaque in another thread said all of Keshas fans are trash

I dislike her music a lot, but i know people who like her music. Who are smart, intelligent people who just after a logn week of school or work wanna listen to music & dance it's just not that serious. And if some people think Thriller is not a good album that's there opinion to, some will like it some won't. But you do and that's all that should matter to you

How do I seem angry?

So just because I made a comment that applied to what YOU were suggesting in this thread I seem angry? No, you took it personal

You and some other folks that I am not going to mention ALWAYS go into threads making this disclaimer, that disclaimer that ( People are fighting or a fight is able to break out).. WHY? ITS ANNOYING when people are seriously trying to discuss/debate.. People make replies and people RESPOND... Everyone is not going to agree with everything but that doesnt necessarily mean people are looking to argue.

Like how me and you are conversing back and forth right now but in your mind you probably take this converse of back and forth as an arguement when ISNT . You expressed your opinion and now I am expressing mine...period.

Everything is not a arguement and every time someone replies to another post questining or saying they disagree doesnt mean they are looking for one. I just think thats beyond immature given the arena that we are in because that is the whole point of message boards. People MAKE posts and people respond. If you agree with everyones opinion or care not to express your disagreement with another post, then dont by why constantly suggest everytime someone else does their trying to start a fight or their arguing?

I admit ALOT of people here do argue but then ALOT of times as well I dont see that and all I see are people instigating fights by making disclaimers that people are fighting when they technically arent like in this case.

I cant speak for what Gray has said or whoever has said in others threads but just because someone is a musician or whatever doesnt necessarily mean they think their opinion is superior anytime it comes to music (even though their are some snobbish musicians not all are like that)...that can just be geniunely how they feel.

What I have notice now lately people are now making judgemental assessments on why people feel a certain way about music here at the org. According to some people here, if your a musician, if you prefer 50s music and your over 60 your considered old and snobbish if you dont like 2012 pop music I dont know I dont quite understand that because people like what they like and dislike what they dislike... period especially when they have listen to a WIDE range of music to come to the conclusion of their preference.

Everyone is not going to like everything like you said with Thriller but hell I like it and I dont care if anyone else doesnt and you know what else, any artist could beat it in sales and I would STILL like it....

But that wasnt the point though of my post... My point was the reasoning as to why some people in the thread wanted to downplay Thriller which was simply because Adele surpassed it by a few units which to me is a generic reason. Whether people like Thriller or not it was a turning point for pop music so it wasnt just a "pop" album.

Babe this is a forum, i know none of in person so u can call me fag, honky, piece of shit sunt nazi for all i care & i won't loose a breath

Gunsnhalen said:

Sorry man but i find that all a bit silly. For example, me & my room mate had many different tastes. And i used to argue with him because he didn't like U2, Bob Dylan, and several other artists that are highlly acclaimed. But i mean after time ir ealized there is no point, people like what they like. And my room mate wasn't to fond of Thriller either , he kind of taught me you can have diff opinions on music and it DOESN'T matter. The Joshua Tree & Highway 61 are known as some of the best albums of all time but he didn't like them & some of my other friend's don't. Ok.. that is not immaturity, some people just don't fucking like U2, Michael Jackson, Bob Dylan or Prince! it does not mean they are immature or being to objective.

I HATE the grateful dead & i HATE AC/DC but that is just cause i don't like the music. That doesn't make me to objective or stupid just cause i don't like an artists that others love.

Not liking an artist doesn't show a lack of objectivity.

Arguing that an artist's material lacks quality on the basis of "because I don't like them" is a sign of lack of objectivity.

Example: I can't stand Muse other than one song but I know they are talented. I wouldn't try to make the case that they aren't talented based solely off the fact that I'm not a fan of their music.

On the other hand, I know Lil Wayne's "6ft 7ft" is some underproduced bullshit but I like it anyway (don't judge me! )

I would NOT try to argue that Wayne is a better musician based on my preference.

So, I disagree - it is not silly - it is as I said; people who can't seperate their preferences from their assessment of quality don't usually make objective arguments.

[Edited 5/3/12 13:25pm]

All Hail Goddess Adele.

Gunsnhalen said:

mjscarousal said:

How do I seem angry?

So just because I made a comment that applied to what YOU were suggesting in this thread I seem angry? No, you took it personal

You and some other folks that I am not going to mention ALWAYS go into threads making this disclaimer, that disclaimer that ( People are fighting or a fight is able to break out).. WHY? ITS ANNOYING when people are seriously trying to discuss/debate.. People make replies and people RESPOND... Everyone is not going to agree with everything but that doesnt necessarily mean people are looking to argue.

Like how me and you are conversing back and forth right now but in your mind you probably take this converse of back and forth as an arguement when ISNT . You expressed your opinion and now I am expressing mine...period.

Everything is not a arguement and every time someone replies to another post questining or saying they disagree doesnt mean they are looking for one. I just think thats beyond immature given the arena that we are in because that is the whole point of message boards. People MAKE posts and people respond. If you agree with everyones opinion or care not to express your disagreement with another post, then dont by why constantly suggest everytime someone else does their trying to start a fight or their arguing?

I admit ALOT of people here do argue but then ALOT of times as well I dont see that and all I see are people instigating fights by making disclaimers that people are fighting when they technically arent like in this case.

I cant speak for what Gray has said or whoever has said in others threads but just because someone is a musician or whatever doesnt necessarily mean they think their opinion is superior anytime it comes to music (even though their are some snobbish musicians not all are like that)...that can just be geniunely how they feel.

What I have notice now lately people are now making judgemental assessments on why people feel a certain way about music here at the org. According to some people here, if your a musician, if you prefer 50s music and your over 60 your considered old and snobbish if you dont like 2012 pop music I dont know I dont quite understand that because people like what they like and dislike what they dislike... period especially when they have listen to a WIDE range of music to come to the conclusion of their preference.

Everyone is not going to like everything like you said with Thriller but hell I like it and I dont care if anyone else doesnt and you know what else, any artist could beat it in sales and I would STILL like it....

But that wasnt the point though of my post... My point was the reasoning as to why some people in the thread wanted to downplay Thriller which was simply because Adele surpassed it by a few units which to me is a generic reason. Whether people like Thriller or not it was a turning point for pop music so it wasnt just a "pop" album.

Babe this is a forum, i know none of in person so u can call me fag, honky, piece of shit sunt nazi for all i care & i won't loose a breath

Me neither

Thats why I say my piece and keep it moving and really could care less what someone who I have never meant and will never meet thinks of me....oh and I cuss them out when needed

She overtook a few people on the list, I wonder why they decided to single out "Thriller"? Yes of course I know why-it's because it's MJ. The media delights in this kind of stuff when it comes to Michael.

Anyway, Adele has had INCREDIBLE success with this album. Personally, I only like a handful of songs on "21" but she has a great voice and makes quality music so congrats to her. The success of "21" has been amazing and we just don't see albums selling like this anymore, so it's very impressive.

I wonder if she has a shot at topping the Beatles. Anybody think so?

Just cuz she passed it by 500 units in the UK, doesn't mean the songs on 21 could be considered on the same level as Thriller. Congratulations to Adele though.

That being said, all this thread is just another opportunity for all you jaded, self-pitying, MJ-hating, Prince fams to downplay one of the greatest albums ever made.

All this bullshit has been said before, and it's really getting tiresome.

Michael Jackson was, is, and forever will be legendary. And Thriller will always be number one in the world.

Get mad.

[Edited 5/3/12 14:53pm]

Strangely people made less of a fuss when the Queen Greatest Hits was re-evaluated and overtook The Beatles' Sgt. Pepper to become THE biggest selling album in the UK.

Maybe because the Queen album wasn't a current mainstream seller and just had better catalogue sales.

The only reason I can surmise that can explain why this album is so popular is because she's appealing to the depressed. However, once she loses 30 lbs and goes Techno (which is inevitable), none of these people will care anymore. So Thriller level in numbers or not, there will be no Bad for her.

Gunsnhalen said:

RodeoSchro said:

I am pretty sure this is another sign that the End Times are upon us.

Just because of insane answers like that. I hope Adele surpases Thriller & outsells it!

That would be amazing to see the reaction on people

Why? More people with more disposable income now than when Thriller was released. Some album may outsell it. Not a bar so high it can't be topped.

To make it clear, I do own '21'. Well, I bought it for my step-mother as she wanted it but I ripped it to my iPod before giving it to her

My view is that it's a very good album. I like Adele a lot as a singer, but it's this generation's 'Jagged Little Pill' or 'Come On Over', perhaps on a larger scale in the UK as she's British. It's that album lots and lots of people buy, stays on the charts for 2 years and then you pretty much never want to listen to it again after severe overkill.

See also 'Brothers In Arms' by Dire Straits also in the Top 10 best selling UK albums (how I don't know, I never ever see it re-chart). A couple of classic tunes on there, but the album as a whole isn't all that well remembered.

WaterInYourBath said:

The only reason I can surmise that can explain why this album is so popular is because she's appealing to the depressed. However, once she loses 30 lbs and goes Techno (which is inevitable), none of these people will care anymore. So Thriller level in numbers or not, there will be no Bad for her.

that was low and stupid on so many levels

or maybe she's appealing to those who respect/appreciate a well-crafted/no-filler album, unlike the silly crap and/or the self-important crap of our days...

[Edited 5/3/12 15:13pm]

Oh Hell Naw

Can't we all just love each other & make babies?

I knew this thread would be good.

This shit is scrumptious.

People saying they aint mad but they writing paragraphs like "21 aint shit, Thriller is the best eva!!!ONEONEONEONE"

I liked 19 better but oh well, she doing her thang for the UK.

[Edited 5/3/12 15:33pm]

AsherFierce said:

I knew this thread would be good.

This shit is scrumptious.

People saying they aint mad but they writing paragraphs like "21 aint shit, Thriller is the best eva!!!ONEONEONEONE"

I liked 19 better but oh well, she doing her thang for the UK.

[Edited 5/3/12 15:33pm]

So does this mean you still love me

Gunsnhalen said:

RodeoSchro said:

I am pretty sure this is another sign that the End Times are upon us.

Just because of insane answers like that. I hope Adele surpases Thriller & outsells it!

That would be amazing to see the reaction on people

Awesome!

But seriously - no disrespect to Adele, but can you really put her in the same class as Michael Jackson?

I'm not the biggest Michael Jackson fan in the world, but from what I've heard from Adele, I can't see that album being 1/10th as good as "Thriller".

RodeoSchro said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Just because of insane answers like that. I hope Adele surpases Thriller & outsells it!

That would be amazing to see the reaction on people

Awesome!

But seriously - no disrespect to Adele, but can you really put her in the same class as Michael Jackson?

I'm not the biggest Michael Jackson fan in the world, but from what I've heard from Adele, I can't see that album being 1/10th as good as "Thriller".

I was mearly talking in sales. I mean she has surpased in sales many of my favorite albums & eh idc personally. But i wasn't saying that she is better then MJ or anything. I was just saying if 21 sold more than thriller it would be an insane day on earth

Gunsnhalen said:

RodeoSchro said:

Awesome!

But seriously - no disrespect to Adele, but can you really put her in the same class as Michael Jackson?

I'm not the biggest Michael Jackson fan in the world, but from what I've heard from Adele, I can't see that album being 1/10th as good as "Thriller".

I was mearly talking in sales. I mean she has surpased in sales many of my favorite albums & eh idc personally. But i wasn't saying that she is better then MJ or anything. I was just saying if 21 sold more than thriller it would be an insane day on earth

It's unlikely though. 21, while an excellent album, isn't an influential cultural phenomenon in the way that Thriller was.

And don't forget that Thriller's sales are at 60 million plus globally. (I'm rather unconvinced by the 100 million sales claim.)

I can't see 21 reaching that kind of sales figure. Her music just doesn't have that 'excitement' factor going for it.