rialb said:

I had forgotten how great the trilogy was but, damn, these are some great albums!

I really don't care much for Portrait of an American Family or Smells Like Children but with Antichrist Superstar he really improved dramatically. Then he went in a completely different direction with Mechanical Animals and made an even better album and then he went in a different direction again with Holy Wood. He really doesn't get enough credit for how great those three albums were or for the risks he took making them. I think it is interesting that he worked with three different producers on those albums and they all have their own sound but they still hang together pretty well as a trilogy.

I'm probably setting myself up for a disappointment but I'm pretty excited to hear the new album. After Lest We Forget I kind of lost interest in him, hopefully Born Villain can draw me in again.

If I remember correctly, those 3 are supposed to be conceptually linked by a loose storyline between them. I think he referred to it as "the triptych" or whatever. Antichrist Superstar being the third installment, MA as the 2nd, and HW as the first.

I really like all of these pre-Golden Age albums, almost equally. I would put Mechanical Animals at the lowest rank of a list between them simply because the polish is a little more blatant. I also think that, conceptually, it's a bit weaker than HW and certainly weaker than AS. I really like the gritty, crusty, grimey quality to AS. With Holy Wood, there's a bigger emphasis on his vocal performance, a bit more abstract melodies, and a sort of refined chaos still hearkens back to his earlier days ("The Death Song", "The Love Song", "Valentine's Day", "King Kill 33"). I also happen to think "Target Audience" could be one of his best songs ever. It certainly shoulda been a single. Would've been a perfect way to aggressively taunt the media. I think "The Fight Song" is passable, but its probably my least favorite on the album.

I see from people's lists and stuff earlier that I must be in the minority with my affection for Portrait. I really think Portrait is a perfect album from top to bottom. The best aspect of Portrait, the focus on Manson's vocal range and character, is later seen taking the spotlight again on Holy Wood. Songs like "Snake Eyes For Sissies" and "Wrapped In Plastic" and "Dogma" really show you how theatrical and still punk Manson was back then. I love that Daisy Berkowitz's melodies (since he wrote most of the music) are so simple and kinda child-like that Manson's strong vocals really take center stage. I guess aspects of the album can be a little too Halloween-y for people, though.

[Edited 4/29/12 3:17am]

Spinlight said:

rialb said:

I had forgotten how great the trilogy was but, damn, these are some great albums!

I really don't care much for Portrait of an American Family or Smells Like Children but with Antichrist Superstar he really improved dramatically. Then he went in a completely different direction with Mechanical Animals and made an even better album and then he went in a different direction again with Holy Wood. He really doesn't get enough credit for how great those three albums were or for the risks he took making them. I think it is interesting that he worked with three different producers on those albums and they all have their own sound but they still hang together pretty well as a trilogy.

I'm probably setting myself up for a disappointment but I'm pretty excited to hear the new album. After Lest We Forget I kind of lost interest in him, hopefully Born Villain can draw me in again.

If I remember correctly, those 3 are supposed to be conceptually linked by a loose storyline between them. I think he referred to it as "the triptych" or whatever. Antichrist Superstar being the third installment, MA as the 2nd, and HW as the first.

I really like all of these pre-Golden Age albums, almost equally. I would put Mechanical Animals at the lowest rank of a list between them simply because the polish is a little more blatant. I also think that, conceptually, it's a bit weaker than HW and certainly weaker than AS. I really like the gritty, crusty, grimey quality to AS. With Holy Wood, there's a bigger emphasis on his vocal performance, a bit more abstract melodies, and a sort of refined chaos still hearkens back to his earlier days ("The Death Song", "The Love Song", "Valentine's Day", "King Kill 33"). I also happen to think "Target Audience" could be one of his best songs ever. It certainly shoulda been a single. Would've been a perfect way to aggressively taunt the media. I think "The Fight Song" is passable, but its probably my least favorite on the album.

I see from people's lists and stuff earlier that I must be in the minority with my affection for Portrait. I really think Portrait is a perfect album from top to bottom. The best aspect of Portrait, the focus on Manson's vocal range and character, is later seen taking the spotlight again on Holy Wood. Songs like "Snake Eyes For Sissies" and "Wrapped In Plastic" and "Dogma" really show you how theatrical and still punk Manson was back then. I love that Daisy Berkowitz's melodies (since he wrote most of the music) are so simple and kinda child-like that Manson's strong vocals really take center stage. I guess aspects of the album can be a little too Halloween-y for people, though.

[Edited 4/29/12 3:17am]

There are parts of Born Villian that remind me of the vocal playfulness he did on Portrait (overneath the path of misery, the gardener). You guys were right, this album has definitely grown on me. Slo-mo-tion is such a good song.

Spinlight said:

I see from people's lists and stuff earlier that I must be in the minority with my affection for Portrait. I really think Portrait is a perfect album from top to bottom. The best aspect of Portrait, the focus on Manson's vocal range and character, is later seen taking the spotlight again on Holy Wood. Songs like "Snake Eyes For Sissies" and "Wrapped In Plastic" and "Dogma" really show you how theatrical and still punk Manson was back then. I love that Daisy Berkowitz's melodies (since he wrote most of the music) are so simple and kinda child-like that Manson's strong vocals really take center stage. I guess aspects of the album can be a little too Halloween-y for people, though.

Interesting, you really dig Portrait of an American Family that much? I was really late to discover Manson, I downloaded Antichrist Superstar/Mechanical Animals/Holy Wood (In the Shadow of the Valley of Death) shortly before The Golden Age of Grotesque was released and loved all three of them so much that I immediately went out and bought his back catalogue. Maybe the songs are better than I give them credit for but there's just something a bit amateurish about the sound of the first album. I have heard the album quite a bit and it is far from terrible but if he had carried on with that sound I don't think I would have become a fan. I guess my main beef is with the musicianship. It just seems like by the time they did Antichrist Superstar they were much better musicians. I feel exactly the same way about Alice Cooper. The first two albums (Easy Action and Pretties for You) just sound so different and inferior compared to the next four (Love It to Death/Killers/School's Out/Billion Dollar Babies).

I remember some of my friends circa 1994/1995 were quite high on the early material but I just couldn't see the appeal. Of course at the time I was listening to mostly seventies bands (Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath) so Manson may have been a little too much for my fourteen year old brain to comprehend.

Listening to it now.. Not sure I like it as much as many of the earlier albums. I appreciate the kind of generic metal sound he's going for, but I guess its not what I started listening to him for.

lezama said:

Listening to it now.. Not sure I like it as much as many of the earlier albums. I appreciate the kind of generic metal sound he's going for, but I guess its not what I started listening to him for.

Give it a couple of spins it will click. My first thought was that it was kinda by the numbers, but I was totally wrong. It's a pretty damn good record. I saw him last night at the Fillmore. He has cut down o nthe theatrics (I guess the budget isn't there), but he still put on a great show.