@Musicjunky....

I will give you Gabby, even though that's a toss-up IMO(love her dimples), disagrees with you on your Alicia Keys. For example, Bey has a better smile and much better skin too. And this pov has nothing to with me being a fan, in fact, her looks has nothing to do with why I am a fan in the first place.

Yeah, Alicia is a pretty girl, but her skin is NOT what it is lol. Some people fight acne their entire lives. It just depends.

Curtwill1975 said:

I never like the whole light-skin/darkskin discussion because it villanizes preference. It's like tall females crying over men who like short women or brunettes and redheads crying over blones getting more attention than them. Yeah, the media does perpepuate a lot of this, but a lot of times, you like what you like. There are short men who like tall women and then there are short men who don't and like women who are shorter than there and they have their reasons.

What about women who like men who are "tall, dark and handsome"? Well for me, one out of 3 isn't bad. But I am not going to complain, people like what they like and that's the way it should be. It shouldn't overanalyzed, scrutinized under the microscope.

Your right people do have preferences and are entitled to them. However, this is a BIGGER BIGGER issue that has been self destructive and has been inaccurate portrayels in the black community going back to slavery. An African American woman, like Gabrielle Union would never be on the same popularity level as Beyonce not because she is not beautiful (technically more beautiful than Beyonce), not because she isnt talented but because she is dark skin.

There was a book and recently a movie titled Dark Skin girls, you should check it out. Its a much bigger issue here than just preference alone and I am a little tired of people excusing the issue as just preference when its not that.

Also Alicia may have bad skin but she definitly has a prettier smile than Beyonce. If you look really really closely.. Beyonce front teeth are slightly crooked and her smile is not pretty like someone like Janets or Alicias is. Alicia has pretty teeth and a nice smile. Ive also seen her without makeup and think she is FAR more attractive than Beyonce, bad skin or not.

[Edited 4/19/12 15:01pm]

It's all the same thing to me. That's why I'm not phased by any of it. My father is dark-skinned, my maternal grandmother is dark-skinned but my paternal grandma is lighter than my dad. My mother is my complexion and lighter than her mom. But so what? We're all family. And we're all black. Hating on one with a darker-hue would be hating on myself. That's what a lot of people don't seem to get. They don't even know how ignorant they sound.

It's just the dumbest shit I've ever seen in my life. Family hating on family. Like cutting your own vein.

musicjunky318 said:

It's all the same thing to me. That's why I'm not phased by any of it. My father is dark-skinned, my maternal grandmother is dark-skinned but my paternal grandma is lighter than my dad. My mother is my complexion and lighter than her mom. But so what? We're all family. And we're all black. Hating on one with a darker-hue would be hating on myself. That's what a lot of people don't seem to get. They don't even know how ignorant they sound.

It's just the dumbest shit I've ever seen in my life. Family hating on family. Like cutting your own vein.

THANKYOUUUUU OMG THANKYOUUUU THIS IS THE POINT IN A NUTSHELL!!!

My mother is dark skin. My father is lightskin. My brothers take after my mom and I take after my dad but so the fuck what? Were all African American at the end of the day and were ALL FAMILY.

It is dumb and its pure ignorance but its not black peoples fought who think like that.

We have been brainwash to look down on eachother because of skin hue because we have been made to believe if we appear lighter or have brown skin that, that makes us better because it makes us appear LESS BLACK .

Thats why it gets on my nerves when black people try to say dumb shit like their mix with someone when they have TWO BLACK PARENTS. OF COURSE if you living in America and your black you have a mixtures of different things in your ancestory but if BOTH your parents are black then chile YOU BLACK dont matter how light your ass is dumbass.

It goes back to slavery like I said. Sadly, this will forever live on. Black families have to talk to their children and just not feed into the ignorance.

Curtwill1975 said:

@Musicjunky....

I will give you Gabby, even though that's a toss-up IMO(love her dimples), disagrees with you on your Alicia Keys. For example, Bey has a better smile and much better skin too. And this pov has nothing to with me being a fan, in fact, her looks has nothing to do with why I am a fan in the first place.

Regardless, I think Keys would still squeak out a win. Bey's saving grace, to be perfectly honest is the weave. She's got great eyes (her best feature) but besides that what is there really to marvel over? I've seen pics without make-up and her skin isn't all that either.

I will say she does have a better figure but based solely on face? Not too sure.

I think Beyonce is gorgeous, she is very beautiful. ALot of people knock her for how she looks without makeup but imo she looks good without it. I just hate how she;s the "standard" for the beauty of black women, especially when theres more black women that look better than her

Nia Long is another one. I forgot about her. Beautiful eyes, beautiful smile. Short-hair, long-hair, braids, it doesn't matter. Between her, Jada, & Halle - they can just rock any hairstyle.

Well, we'll never know, now will we.

Stories like this shouldn't even be printed.

musicjunky318 said:

Curtwill1975 said:

@Musicjunky....

I will give you Gabby, even though that's a toss-up IMO(love her dimples), disagrees with you on your Alicia Keys. For example, Bey has a better smile and much better skin too. And this pov has nothing to with me being a fan, in fact, her looks has nothing to do with why I am a fan in the first place.

Regardless, I think Keys would still squeak out a win. Bey's saving grace, to be perfectly honest is the weave. She's got great eyes (her best feature) but besides that what is there really to marvel over? I've seen pics without make-up and her skin isn't all that either.

I will say she does have a better figure but based solely on face? Not too sure.

I think Beyonce edges out Alicia..

Alicia Keys is beautiful, but she looks so plain.

She died tragically at a young age. There will always be an aura of "what if" and "what could have been" around her for that reason alone.

Pressure said:

I think Beyonce is gorgeous, she is very beautiful. ALot of people knock her for how she looks without makeup but imo she looks good without it. I just hate how she;s the "standard" for the beauty of black women, especially when theres more black women that look better than her

No one in this thread has insisted that Beyonce is ugly. I have never said that nor has anyone else. She isnt ugly but she is plain looking without makeup and SHE IS. ALOT of people have said this.

And if someone is constantly being made to be the most beautiful black women in the world, yes that fact is going to be pointed out and especially when Beyonce rarely walks out the house "without"makeup there is irony there.

Im not knocking Beyonce and in all honestly I am not saying this because I dont like her as an "artist" because I think she has a great shape but so does alot of black women once again just saying.

There is absolutely nothing gorgeous about her when she is not made up. Like Junky said, she has clear skin but thats about it.

My whole arguement was I thought it was unfair for her being the standard as well being that she using so MUCH cosmetics such as weave, alot of makeup, foundation, lashes that enhances her looks when in reality.. is not a real depiction of what she looks like, which is average.

But at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion, so be it .

Alicia is far more gorgeous than Beyonce without makeup.. Beyonce is not ugly but she is average. You can find alot of women that look like her and you can definitly find alot more than look way better but like I said everyone is entitled to their opinion if you feel she is prettier than Alicia so be it.

Also in that pic you can clearly see Beyonces two front teeth are crooked.

[Edited 4/19/12 16:30pm]

Alicia doesn't need makeup. I agree.

Terrib3Towel said:

Yeah, Alicia is a pretty girl, but her skin is NOT what it is lol. Some people fight acne their entire lives. It just depends.

Alicia got acne? I don see nuthin!

In that pic you don't, but it gets bad trust me.

Terrib3Towel said:

In that pic you don't, but it gets bad trust me.

Wasnt she a spokesperson for Proactive? I thought I remember seeing her in a commercial for it once.

After Alicia had her baby her skin got better. But before that she had skin like Vanessa Williams another beauty that has bad skin..

Alicia Keys is mixed, and not the prettiest mixed girl either. She's very plain and her legs have always been very off... Beyonce always had the better body, between Alicia and Bey. Naomi is a natural beauty though.

Beyonce natural hair, without no extensions... alicia without no makeup.

Someone mentioned Alicia's bad skin.. It's much better now though...

GoldDolphin said:

Alicia Keys is mixed, and not the prettiest mixed girl either. She's very plain and her legs have always been very off... Beyonce always had the better body, between Alicia and Bey. Naomi is a natural beauty though.

Beyonce natural hair, without no extensions... alicia without no makeup.

Beyonce has makeup in both those pictures and she still has extentions and weave... Alicia Keys has makeup in those pictures...

Regardless Alicia far prettier than Beyonce without makeup... I want to see Beyonce without her weave I wonder what that looks like...

The pictures that I POSTED show Alicia without makeup as well as Beyonce but she still as a little gloss and of course her weave.

[Edited 4/20/12 20:39pm]

How did Alicia Keys get involved in this?

ViintageJunkiie said:

How did Alicia Keys get involved in this?

No idea hahaha.... People were talking about who's the hottest or whatever lol.... xD

mjscarousal said:

THANKYOUUUUU OMG THANKYOUUUU THIS IS THE POINT IN A NUTSHELL!!!

My mother is dark skin. My father is lightskin. My brothers take after my mom and I take after my dad but so the fuck what? Were all African American at the end of the day and were ALL FAMILY.

It is dumb and its pure ignorance but its not black peoples fought who think like that.

We have been brainwash to look down on eachother because of skin hue because we have been made to believe if we appear lighter or have brown skin that, that makes us better because it makes us appear LESS BLACK .

It goes back to slavery like I said. Sadly, this will forever live on. Black families have to talk to their children and just not feed into the ignorance.

this is a little off original topic but very timely to me bcos 3 black women 21-30 yrs of age were talking in the shop the other day and they all said that they "dont like light skinned black girls or dark skinned black guys." i asked them why and 2 couldn't anwser except to say "i dont know i just dont and id never date them" the other said it bcos she herself is dark skinned "why i wanna date someone as dark as me?" i mentioned to them that i noticed that blacks rarely date/marry/breed with the same same skin tone as themselves. but mostly i found their convo wierd, arbitrary and funny. especially since the dark skin woman is dating a man of the same complexion but swears hes "brown skinned"(whateva that means) and the other woman is dating a very dark skinned woman but will have nothing to do with dark men or women of her own complexion....

none of this makes sense to me.

but re the bolded portions- i do think it blacks fault for perpetuating the racist nonsense in their own communities and families. they are not powerless to stop it.

wavesofbliss said:

mjscarousal said:

THANKYOUUUUU OMG THANKYOUUUU THIS IS THE POINT IN A NUTSHELL!!!

My mother is dark skin. My father is lightskin. My brothers take after my mom and I take after my dad but so the fuck what? Were all African American at the end of the day and were ALL FAMILY.

It is dumb and its pure ignorance but its not black peoples fought who think like that.

We have been brainwash to look down on eachother because of skin hue because we have been made to believe if we appear lighter or have brown skin that, that makes us better because it makes us appear LESS BLACK .

It goes back to slavery like I said. Sadly, this will forever live on. Black families have to talk to their children and just not feed into the ignorance.

this is a little off original topic but very timely to me bcos 3 black women 21-30 yrs of age were talking in the shop the other day and they all said that they "dont like light skinned black girls or dark skinned black guys." i asked them why and 2 couldn't anwser except to say "i dont know i just dont and id never date them" the other said it bcos she herself is dark skinned "why i wanna date someone as dark as me?" i mentioned to them that i noticed that blacks rarely date/marry/breed with the same same skin tone as themselves. but mostly i found their convo wierd, arbitrary and funny. especially since the dark skin woman is dating a man of the same complexion but swears hes "brown skinned"(whateva that means) and the other woman is dating a very dark skinned woman but will have nothing to do with dark men or women of her own complexion....

none of this makes sense to me.

but re the bolded portions- i do think it blacks fault for perpetuating the racist nonsense in their own communities and families. they are not powerless to stop it.

Yes and No.

But thanks for interesting commentary

It is our communities fought in how some FEED into the ignorance but you have to understand.... This has been a manipulation dating back to slavery. You cant fought someone that has been helpless to that, brainwashed and subconciously it has been passed down hundreds of years later. It also doesnt help that we live in a European society that promotes and influences that type of ignorance but I do feel as a whole we need to stop it at least as a community first but sadly I dont think that will never happen. Its been going on for tooooooooo many generations

mjscarousal said:

wavesofbliss said:

this is a little off original topic but very timely to me bcos 3 black women 21-30 yrs of age were talking in the shop the other day and they all said that they "dont like light skinned black girls or dark skinned black guys." i asked them why and 2 couldn't anwser except to say "i dont know i just dont and id never date them" the other said it bcos she herself is dark skinned "why i wanna date someone as dark as me?" i mentioned to them that i noticed that blacks rarely date/marry/breed with the same same skin tone as themselves. but mostly i found their convo wierd, arbitrary and funny. especially since the dark skin woman is dating a man of the same complexion but swears hes "brown skinned"(whateva that means) and the other woman is dating a very dark skinned woman but will have nothing to do with dark men or women of her own complexion....

none of this makes sense to me.

but re the bolded portions- i do think it blacks fault for perpetuating the racist nonsense in their own communities and families. they are not powerless to stop it.

Yes and No.

But thanks for interesting commentary

It is our communities fought in how some FEED into the ignorance but you have to understand.... This has been a manipulation dating back to slavery. You cant fought someone that has been helpless to that, brainwashed and subconciously it has been passed down hundreds of years later. It also doesnt help that we live in a European society that promotes and influences that type of ignorance but I do feel as a whole we need to stop it at least as a community first but sadly I dont think that will never happen. Its been going on for tooooooooo many generations

i hear what youre saying. but , in the black community, is there something said to be wrong with dark skin men and light skin women? is their a common biased against thme? is it just a sountern us thing?

wavesofbliss said:

mjscarousal said:

Yes and No.

But thanks for interesting commentary

It is our communities fought in how some FEED into the ignorance but you have to understand.... This has been a manipulation dating back to slavery. You cant fought someone that has been helpless to that, brainwashed and subconciously it has been passed down hundreds of years later. It also doesnt help that we live in a European society that promotes and influences that type of ignorance but I do feel as a whole we need to stop it at least as a community first but sadly I dont think that will never happen. Its been going on for tooooooooo many generations

i hear what youre saying. but , in the black community, is there something said to be wrong with dark skin men and light skin women? is their a common biased against thme? is it just a sountern us thing?

Well Ill just put it to you like this... no matter what race you are unfortunately there are just ignorant people. That isnt a "black thing" per se because people of other races do it. However, a tendency (which I find very very annoying) that black people do to one another is compare skin complexions (light to dark) and hair textures. Some think since their light that their mix with something or that makes them better because they appear less black, its REALLY REALLY ignorant Sadly thats the result of slavery and its demons.

Light skin women who have long hair has always been put in the forefront as the "standard" of African American beauty in European society but the reality is, we come in all shades and hair textures. Likewise for the men.

mjscarousal said:

wavesofbliss said:

i hear what youre saying. but , in the black community, is there something said to be wrong with dark skin men and light skin women? is their a common biased against thme? is it just a sountern us thing?

Well Ill just put it to you like this... no matter what race you are unfortunately there are just ignorant people. That isnt a "black thing" per se because people of other races do it. However, a tendency (which I find very very annoying) that black people do to one another is compare skin complexions (light to dark) and hair textures. Some think since their light that their mix with something or that makes them better because they appear less black, its REALLY REALLY ignorant Sadly thats the result of slavery and its demons.

Light skin women who have long hair has always been put in the forefront as the "standard" of African American beauty in European society but the reality is, we come in all shades and hair textures. Likewise for the men.

I think the dark vs light complexion is in all countries, where slavery and colonization occured. For instance in Latin America & Carribean, India, South Africa, Australia. It's a big problem but it has to do with the history of the "winners", meaning those with white complexion /european. Sadly today, people still feel this way.

Lighter skin women have become the forefront of standard beauty of AA women, because the USA used to be a colony and people kinda expect it being a mixture of things. If you are an African woman from Niger or Senegal, people don't expect the beauty to be light skinned, because there's no obvious mixture. People know that African-americans are quite different from Africans, because of 25 % admixture of european ancestry (10 % native american )... So when you get a presentation of a darker person, you don't feel as if they are "authentic" because they don't look like you think they should look like. It's really stupid and ignorant though, the light vs dark thing is wrong and pointless...

GoldDolphin said:

mjscarousal said:

Well Ill just put it to you like this... no matter what race you are unfortunately there are just ignorant people. That isnt a "black thing" per se because people of other races do it. However, a tendency (which I find very very annoying) that black people do to one another is compare skin complexions (light to dark) and hair textures. Some think since their light that their mix with something or that makes them better because they appear less black, its REALLY REALLY ignorant Sadly thats the result of slavery and its demons.

Light skin women who have long hair has always been put in the forefront as the "standard" of African American beauty in European society but the reality is, we come in all shades and hair textures. Likewise for the men.

I think the dark vs light complexion is in all countries, where slavery and colonization occured. For instance in Latin America & Carribean, India, South Africa, Australia. It's a big problem but it has to do with the history of the "winners", meaning those with white complexion /european. Sadly today, people still feel this way.

Lighter skin women have become the forefront of standard beauty of AA women, because the USA used to be a colony and people kinda expect it being a mixture of things. If you are an African woman from Niger or Senegal, people don't expect the beauty to be light skinned, because there's no obvious mixture. People know that African-americans are quite different from Africans, because of 25 % admixture of european ancestry (10 % native american )... So when you get a presentation of a darker person, you don't feel as if they are "authentic" because they don't look like you think they should look like. It's really stupid and ignorant though, the light vs dark thing is wrong and pointless...

It was an divide and conquer tactic, and it all began with one letter from a slave master: Willie Lynch.

angel345 said:

It was an divide and conquer tactic, and it all began with one letter from a slave master: Willie Lynch.

i have just read that letter and can see that it has worked its evil magic for far too long. its chilling to read but i think its time for "a phenomena to happen to return things to their natural order" in AA.

wavesofbliss said:

angel345 said:

It was an divide and conquer tactic, and it all began with one letter from a slave master: Willie Lynch.

i have just read that letter and can see that it has worked its evil magic for far too long. its chilling to read but i think its time for "a phenomena to happen to return things to their natural order" in AA.

I agree