I must have missed out on how "Influential" GNR were/are. I never thought they were anything more than the usual heavy metal types that were around late 80's.

lazycrockett said:

I must have missed out on how "Influential" GNR were/are. I never thought they were anything more than the usual heavy metal types that were around late 80's.

If you believe Rolling Stone, they "brought back rock and roll from the brink of death".

lazycrockett said:

I must have missed out on how "Influential" GNR were/are. I never thought they were anything more than the usual heavy metal types that were around late 80's.

GNR had nothing to do with heavy-metal; in the late-80s the CLUELESS mainstream media called "metal" ANY band with long hair, leather, jeans and "tough" attitude, just as they called "electronica" ANY act using drum-machines/synhts/sequencers etc during the early-90s, from Depeche Mode, to LFO, NiN, etc

GNR was HARD-ROCK, big difference, they brought back the guts and the dangerous edge of 68-78 bands/acts like Hendrix, MC5, Aerosmith, the Stooges, the Stones, early Kiss, Bon Scott's AC/DC, etc. and also resurrected the concept of the "epic song" (November Rain, Estranged, Breakdown, etc) of bands like Zeppelin, Queen, Deep Purple or even Elton John...So, call them unoriginal, fair enough, but at least they were excellent revivalists (like the Black Crowes) in a market saturated with dance-pop, hard-dance, and hair-metal...

80s Heavy-Metal (Maiden, Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Helloween, Priest, Celtic Frost, Kreator, etc) was a whole different concept, and hair-metal was also a whole different concept (Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Poison, Van Hagar): radio-ready rock with loud guitars and flashy synths/keyboards...

Nirvana did something similar for alternative-rock/punk-rock in 1991/93...

JoeTyler said:

lazycrockett said:

I must have missed out on how "Influential" GNR were/are. I never thought they were anything more than the usual heavy metal types that were around late 80's.

GNR had nothing to do with heavy-metal; in the late-80s the CLUELESS mainstream media called "metal" ANY band with long hair, leather, jeans and "tough" attitude, just as they called "electronica" ANY act using drum-machines/synhts/sequencers etc during the early-90s, from Depeche Mode, to LFO, NiN, etc

GNR was HARD-ROCK, big difference, they brought back the guts and the dangerous edge of 68-78 bands/acts like Hendrix, MC5, Aerosmith, the Stooges, the Stones, early Kiss, Bon Scott's AC/DC, etc. and also resurrected the concept of the "epic song" (November Rain, Estranged, Breakdown, etc) of bands like Zeppelin, Queen, Deep Purple or even Elton John...So, call them unoriginal, fair enough, but at least they were excellent revivalists (like the Black Crowes) in a market saturated with dance-pop, hard-dance, and hair-metal...

80s Heavy-Metal (Maiden, Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Helloween, Priest, Celtic Frost, Kreator, etc) was a whole different concept, and hair-metal was also a whole different concept (Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Poison, Van Hagar): radio-ready rock with loud guitars and flashy synths/keyboards...

Nirvana did something similar for alternative-rock/punk-rock in 1991/93...

Yeah that's what RS was saying. In a sense they were right because GNR definitely didn't follow the same path Motley Crue, Warrant and Poison took. Even Axl's and Duff's early glam metal look didn't make them the butt of jokes because their music was so different.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

GNR had nothing to do with heavy-metal; in the late-80s the CLUELESS mainstream media called "metal" ANY band with long hair, leather, jeans and "tough" attitude, just as they called "electronica" ANY act using drum-machines/synhts/sequencers etc during the early-90s, from Depeche Mode, to LFO, NiN, etc

GNR was HARD-ROCK, big difference, they brought back the guts and the dangerous edge of 68-78 bands/acts like Hendrix, MC5, Aerosmith, the Stooges, the Stones, early Kiss, Bon Scott's AC/DC, etc. and also resurrected the concept of the "epic song" (November Rain, Estranged, Breakdown, etc) of bands like Zeppelin, Queen, Deep Purple or even Elton John...So, call them unoriginal, fair enough, but at least they were excellent revivalists (like the Black Crowes) in a market saturated with dance-pop, hard-dance, and hair-metal...

80s Heavy-Metal (Maiden, Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Helloween, Priest, Celtic Frost, Kreator, etc) was a whole different concept, and hair-metal was also a whole different concept (Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Poison, Van Hagar): radio-ready rock with loud guitars and flashy synths/keyboards...

Nirvana did something similar for alternative-rock/punk-rock in 1991/93...

Yeah that's what RS was saying. In a sense they were right because GNR definitely didn't follow the same path Motley Crue, Warrant and Poison took. Even Axl's and Duff's early glam metal look didn't make them the butt of jokes because their music was so different.

GNR were basically glam in 1986 and the Welcome to the Jungle video, that's all

their epic concert in the Ritz in 1988 proved that they were not "another pretty boys band with long hair", and Axl quickly left behind the glam image for that long ass dirty hair and the pirate headscarf

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

GNR had nothing to do with heavy-metal;

GNR was HARD-ROCK, big difference,

hair-metal was also a whole different concept (Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Poison, Van Hagar): radio-ready rock with loud guitars and flashy synths/keyboards...

Yeah that's what RS was saying. In a sense they were right because GNR definitely didn't follow the same path Motley Crue, Warrant and Poison took. Even Axl's and Duff's early glam metal look didn't make them the butt of jokes because their music was so different.

yeah, it floors me that people are still comparing Appetite for Destruction to Dr.Feelgood; "slighty" similar sound, but that's all, almost any other aspect is different, including with the dual guitar attack that Motley never had...

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah that's what RS was saying. In a sense they were right because GNR definitely didn't follow the same path Motley Crue, Warrant and Poison took. Even Axl's and Duff's early glam metal look didn't make them the butt of jokes because their music was so different.

GNR were basically glam in 1986 and the Welcome to the Jungle video, that's all

their epic concert in the Ritz in 1988 proved that they were not "another pretty boys band with long hair", and Axl quickly left behind the glam image for that long ass dirty hair and the pirate headscarf

Ahhh! Axl was the shit back then!

^LOL and he is just shit nowadays!

PatrickS77 said:

^LOL and he is just shit nowadays!

If you take away that just than i can agree

MickyDolenz said:

Paul McCartney also wrote a letter and didn't show up to The Beatles induction. Last year Peter Gabriel said he was too busy to show up for Genesis' induction. Nothing special here.

Doing what?

HuMpThAnG said:

MickyDolenz said:

Paul McCartney also wrote a letter and didn't show up to The Beatles induction. Last year Peter Gabriel said he was too busy to show up for Genesis' induction. Nothing special here.

Doing what?

Apparently he was going to be onstage the night of the induction ceremony, I forget what he was going to do that night...

PatrickS77 said:

MattyJam said:

Why should Axl have to suck it up? Since leaving the group in 96, Slash has become a complete media-whore in an attempt to win public sympathy by portraying himself as an innocent bystander to Axl's supposed dicatatorship. He has bad-mouthed his former bandmate on a regular basis, while Axl remained tight-lipped.

The truth is, Slash threw his toys out the pram when Axl and Duff refused to work on Slash's mediocre songs (Slash's Snakepit is well below GNR standard and everyone knew it bar the man himself).

Of course I'm sure Axl shoulders a large part of the blame himself for the events that led to the break-up, but then it's hardly like he hasn't been held accountable all these years!! He said nothing about the break-up or his old bandmates for years until he broke his silence in 2008. There are two sides to every story and while Slash was shouting his side from the rooftops, writing a book, slagging off Axl in interviews etc, Axl kept a dignified silence and I respect him for that.

So why should Axl attend and have to play with a man he obviously cannot stand? It would be fake - and love him or hate him, that's one thing Axl has never been.

[Edited 4/14/12 4:49am]

Read my post. I already have laid out why he should suck it up! All former members are (or were willing to attend) except him.
And Slash a media whore? Geez, unlike Axl, who became a recluse and wasn't really confronted about the break up, he kept working, got out there, toured and did press to promote his stuff. So obviously he was asked regarding GNR. And he was the one forced to give up his band, so forgive him for being bitter for a while. His leaving the band had nothing to do with the supposed refusal of certain songs. He released those songs, had a moderate success and spend a year doing what he loved, playing concerts playing those songs. His leaving had to do with Axl speaking to him through lawyers and middlemen, demanding Slash and Duff to sign over the rights to the band, firing Gilby and bringing in a childhood friend without consulting anyone else in the band. I'm aware that everyone in the band has their own version of what went down, but no one really contradicted what Slash said. As you might have noticed, Slash and Duff (and Matt) still work together and get along. And most of the stuff Slash said was kinda obvious looking at the band in those years.

It was still Slash who quit the band. He said in his autobiograpy:

In retrospect I was naive about the whole thing: I didn't protect myself legally because I didn't think I had to. In my mind, what was the name without the players? I didn't think I had given Axl anything, because to me, what could he do with the name and nothing else to show for it?

In the short run, no one in the Guns corporation actually believed that I was done. Axl contacted those closest to me, telling them that I should change my mind. He called my dad, my security guard, my wife, Renee, and told each of them that I was making the biggest mistake of my life. He said that I was pissing away so much money because of my decision. But none of that mattered to me. I was done.

[Edited 4/14/12 15:40pm]

The situation was a mess. I'm not mad at him for walking out.

JoeTyler said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah that's what RS was saying. In a sense they were right because GNR definitely didn't follow the same path Motley Crue, Warrant and Poison took. Even Axl's and Duff's early glam metal look didn't make them the butt of jokes because their music was so different.

yeah, it floors me that people are still comparing Appetite for Destruction to Dr.Feelgood; "slighty" similar sound, but that's all, almost any other aspect is different, including with the dual guitar attack that Motley never had...

Eh, Dr. Feelgood might be a bit slicker but I think there are parallels between the two bands. A better comparison might be Too Fast for Love and Appetite for Destruction. Both are arguably hard rock albums that are influenced by punk rock which makes them a bit unique for that era. Remember, Dr. Feelgood was Motley Crue's fifth album. By that time much of the rawness and attitude of the band had been polished away. What would the original Guns 'N Roses have sounded like if they had survived to make a fifth album? Hard to say but they likely would have sounded quite different than they did on their first album.

elmer said:

PatrickS77 said:

Read my post. I already have laid out why he should suck it up! All former members are (or were willing to attend) except him.
And Slash a media whore? Geez, unlike Axl, who became a recluse and wasn't really confronted about the break up, he kept working, got out there, toured and did press to promote his stuff. So obviously he was asked regarding GNR. And he was the one forced to give up his band, so forgive him for being bitter for a while. His leaving the band had nothing to do with the supposed refusal of certain songs. He released those songs, had a moderate success and spend a year doing what he loved, playing concerts playing those songs. His leaving had to do with Axl speaking to him through lawyers and middlemen, demanding Slash and Duff to sign over the rights to the band, firing Gilby and bringing in a childhood friend without consulting anyone else in the band. I'm aware that everyone in the band has their own version of what went down, but no one really contradicted what Slash said. As you might have noticed, Slash and Duff (and Matt) still work together and get along. And most of the stuff Slash said was kinda obvious looking at the band in those years.

It was still Slash who quit the band. He said in his autobiograpy:

In retrospect I was naive about the whole thing: I didn't protect myself legally because I didn't think I had to. In my mind, what was the name without the players? I didn't think I had given Axl anything, because to me, what could he do with the name and nothing else to show for it?

In the short run, no one in the Guns corporation actually believed that I was done. Axl contacted those closest to me, telling them that I should change my mind. He called my dad, my security guard, my wife, Renee, and told each of them that I was making the biggest mistake of my life. He said that I was pissing away so much money because of my decision. But none of that mattered to me. I was done.

[Edited 4/14/12 15:40pm]

Yes, and who was the reason he left? Axl Rose. A megaegoistical jerk, who thinks the world evolves around him and that he's better and more important than anyone else. A guy that fires and hires band members without consulting Duff and Slash. A guy that instead of talking to his band members directly uses managers, lawyers, relatives, wives, security guards and whoever else that was around to do the talking for him. A guy who treats his fellow band members like they are his employees.

So for Slash there really were only two options either stay in that negative, toxic enviroment, where nothing was really going ahead or divorcing himself from the situation and move on. And considering that for another 5 years nothing really went on in the GNR camp, I guess that was the right decision! If Axl would have been easier to deal with, I'm sure he (and also Duff) wouldn't have left.

But really, what does that have to do with the induction ceremony?

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

yeah, it floors me that people are still comparing Appetite for Destruction to Dr.Feelgood; "slighty" similar sound, but that's all, almost any other aspect is different, including with the dual guitar attack that Motley never had...

Eh, Dr. Feelgood might be a bit slicker but I think there are parallels between the two bands. A better comparison might be Too Fast for Love and Appetite for Destruction. Both are arguably hard rock albums that are influenced by punk rock which makes them a bit unique for that era. Remember, Dr. Feelgood was Motley Crue's fifth album. By that time much of the rawness and attitude of the band had been polished away. What would the original Guns 'N Roses have sounded like if they had survived to make a fifth album? Hard to say but they likely would have sounded quite different than they did on their first album.

Considering Axl's obsessions during the second half of the 90's, it would have been a crappy industrial-rock record, with heavily processed guitars by Slash and Clarke, not different from Marilyn Manson songs like The Dope Show or Tourniquet...

that actually sounds like a BAD idea, lol

PatrickS77 said:

Yes, and who was the reason he left? Axl Rose. A megaegoistical jerk, who thinks the world evolves around him and that he's better and more important than anyone else. A guy that fires and hires band members without consulting Duff and Slash. A guy that instead of talking to his band members directly uses managers, lawyers, relatives, wives, security guards and whoever else that was around to do the talking for him. A guy who treats his fellow band members like they are his employees.

So for Slash there really were only two options either stay in that negative, toxic enviroment, where nothing was really going ahead or divorcing himself from the situation and move on. And considering that for another 5 years nothing really went on in the GNR camp, I guess that was the right decision! If Axl would have been easier to deal with, I'm sure he (and also Duff) wouldn't have left.

But really, what does that have to do with the induction ceremony?

Slash mentioned a private meeting with Axl at the time of the contract wranglings, amongst the (alleged) third-party negotiating, backstabbing and whatnot.

There's a seemingly endless amount of revisionism and fantasies out there for the sake of self-promotion and business opportunities masking the actual realities. Axl.

You mentioned Slash's version of the break-up palaver, and seeing as they haven't spoken since, it's relevant.

MattyJam said:

leonche64 said:

You keep saying Duff refused to play Slash's songs,that is simply not true. Axl refused the songs outright. Duff has never said anything about them.

Not true. If you read Duff's new book he states quite clearly that he agreed fully with Axl about Slash's songs not being suitable GNR material, saying that he felt they were "too Southern rock for GNR."

I have not read Duff's new book, so if that is what he said, then I stand corrected. But I will disagree on the statement that it was not a good project.

Despite Axl Rose's Protests, Plaque Installed Outside Rock Hall

April 14, 2012

Link

Guns N' Roses fans who might be contemplating a visit to Cleveland now that the band has been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame can breathe at least a small sigh of relief.

Earlier this week, singer Axl Rose vehemently -- and very publicily -- declined for himself to be inducted, barred anyone else from accepting on his behalf and generally dissed the whole idea of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame itself.

But as of a few hours before this year's induction ceremony was set to get underway near the shore of Lake Erie, Rose had stopped short of commandeering a jackhammer and digging up the brand-new brass plaques embedded in the sidewalk outside the Rock Hall to commemorate its newest class of members.

The plaques are the first entries on the Hall's new Walk of Fame, which also includes the Red Hot Chili Peppers, the Beastie Boys, Faces/Small Faces, Donovan and Laura Nyro.

Hall officials plan to install something like 270 more over the next two years to recognize all the other inductees.

The hall itself sponsored this first round of plaques, with a look replicating vinyl records. The honor of sponsoring future markers will be auctioned to the highest bidders. Proceeds covering the actual cost of making and installing them, and any revenue beyond that will help underwrite future induction ceremonies.

[img:$uid]http://i39.tinypic.com/2n8o2gx.jpg[/img:$uid]

Inductees (L-R) Matt Sorum, Steven Adler, Duff McKagan and Slash of Guns N? Roses pose in the press room during the 27th Annual Rock And Roll Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony at Public Hall on April 14, 2012 in Cleveland, Ohio.

(Credit: Getty Images)

HuMpThAnG said:

MickyDolenz said:

Paul McCartney also wrote a letter and didn't show up to The Beatles induction. Last year Peter Gabriel said he was too busy to show up for Genesis' induction. Nothing special here.

Doing what?

Ha ha! Exactly!

Identity said:

[img:$uid]http://i39.tinypic.com/2n8o2gx.jpg[/img:$uid]

Inductees (L-R) Matt Sorum, Steven Adler, Duff McKagan and Slash of Guns N? Roses pose in the press room during the 27th Annual Rock And Roll Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony at Public Hall on April 14, 2012 in Cleveland, Ohio.

(Credit: Getty Images)

Great pic.

Oh, Axl! way to get all the attention.... by not being there.

Not surprised they booed Axl.

StonedImmaculate said:

I'm still trying to figure out how Guns n Roses, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Beastie Boys are Hall of Famers and KISS (among many others) is not.

Because it's a joke... the Rock Hall that is,

I don't know the whole story about what went down between his former bandmates and Mr. Rose but really I'm surprised this mess hasn' t happened more often. Whatever.

When will it be televised?

That is all

TD3 said:

StonedImmaculate said:

I'm still trying to figure out how Guns n Roses, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Beastie Boys are Hall of Famers and KISS (among many others) is not.

Because it's a joke... the Rock Hall that is,

KISS, you mean.

Axl had one opportunity to not be a cunt for once in his life and let it slip away. It isn't surprising at all.

I can't tell if he's the kind of person who will one day feel the crushing defeat of regret or if he'll forever act as if it's everyone else, not him.

GNR performing at Rock n Roll hall of fame

http://www.youtube.com/wa...stFFBzNzPo

I read that statement like "...Huh?"

That's a whole lot of...extra. Why didn't he just not show up and then later when he was asked about it, make an excuse about having had a really bad head cold at the time or something.