mookie said:

HAPPYPERSON said:

The brothers should filmed their performance at the Apollo Theatre and broadcoast as a tv special on some channel like ABC or Fox . They should talk about the experience of the apollo being their first major gig and if they have footage of their first performance there at kids then show it, and other singers were at the apollo when the jackson 5 first perform there talk about it, then sings some of their jackson5/jacksons tunes

I honestly can't see any channel showing something like this. Those that run these networks and channels could carelss about these guys.

exactly. i loved the j5 as a kid, and have a lot of fond memories of their songs. they had a lot of success, without question. but the main reason for that success is gone. as i've posted before, the brothers needed to go without mj, establish another group independent of the 'family' label or image - not all the isley bros are actually brothers, right? - and they wouldn't be in this situation now.

kibbles said:

mookie said:

I honestly can't see any channel showing something like this. Those that run these networks and channels could carelss about these guys.

exactly. i loved the j5 as a kid, and have a lot of fond memories of their songs. they had a lot of success, without question. but the main reason for that success is gone. as i've posted before, the brothers needed to go without mj, establish another group independent of the 'family' label or image - not all the isley bros are actually brothers, right? - and they wouldn't be in this situation now.

Chris Jasper is Rudolph Isley's brother-in-law so technically he is an "Isley brother" by marriage.

[Edited 6/1/12 15:18pm]

kibbles said:

the brothers needed to go without mj, establish another group independent of the 'family' label or image

Jermaine has released more solo albums (non compilations) than Mike. Jermaine has 13 and Mike has 11. Jermaine, Tito, and Marlon produced some other acts in the early 1980's. I don't know what happened with that. Tito has a career now as a blues singer.

MickyDolenz said:

kibbles said:

the brothers needed to go without mj, establish another group independent of the 'family' label or image

Jermaine has released more solo albums (non compilations) than Mike. Jermaine has 13 and Mike has 11. Jermaine, Tito, and Marlon produced some other acts in the early 1980's. I don't know what happened with that. Tito has a career now as a blues singer.

They could've done more than they did... that's kind of a tragedy.

Timmy84 said:

kibbles said:

exactly. i loved the j5 as a kid, and have a lot of fond memories of their songs. they had a lot of success, without question. but the main reason for that success is gone. as i've posted before, the brothers needed to go without mj, establish another group independent of the 'family' label or image - not all the isley bros are actually brothers, right? - and they wouldn't be in this situation now.

Chris Jasper is Rudolph Isley's brother-in-law so technically he is an "Isley brother" by marriage.

[Edited 6/1/12 15:18pm]

relative by marriage, but still not brothers. but you hear what i'm sayin'. the isleys wanted to do music and the brother-in-law just happened to be down.

ewf is another one. maurice and his brother verdine were musicians. maurice was putting together this band, and went out looking for other talented people to join it. he asked verdine to join, and he also found philip b. and the others.

the j bros. should have been taking notes. found another lead singer or just use jermaine, found other musicians, and had randy and jackie continue to write songs. change the name of the band, definitely. i don't think they wouldn't be in this situation now.

i just think that the j bros are kind of "schizo". on the one hand, they'll tell you that the group was big, but never admit that that was b/c of mj. however, on the other hand, they clearly realize this. they never wanted to embark on their own tour because they knew that what is happening now with the cancelled shows would have happened then.

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

Chris Jasper is Rudolph Isley's brother-in-law so technically he is an "Isley brother" by marriage.

[Edited 6/1/12 15:18pm]

relative by marriage, but still not brothers. but you hear what i'm sayin'. the isleys wanted to do music and the brother-in-law just happened to be down.

ewf is another one. maurice and his brother verdine were musicians. maurice was putting together this band, and went out looking for other talented people to join it. he asked verdine to join, and he also found philip b. and the others.

the j bros. should have been taking notes. found another lead singer or just use jermaine, found other musicians, and had randy and jackie continue to write songs. change the name of the band, definitely. i don't think they wouldn't be in this situation now.

i just think that the j bros are kind of "schizo". on the one hand, they'll tell you that the group was big, but never admit that that was b/c of mj. however, on the other hand, they clearly realize this. they never wanted to embark on their own tour because they knew that what is happening now with the cancelled shows would have happened then.

Yeah that is true. Also I think Chris got in really because he was best buds with Marvin and Ernie and Ron, Rudy and Kelly dug what they heard and let him in because he gave them something they didn't have. The Jacksons should've definitely took lessons from the Isleys at least.

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

Chris Jasper is Rudolph Isley's brother-in-law so technically he is an "Isley brother" by marriage.

[Edited 6/1/12 15:18pm]

the j bros. should have been taking notes. found another lead singer or just use jermaine, found other musicians, and had randy and jackie continue to write songs. change the name of the band, definitely. i don't think they wouldn't be in this situation now.

i just think that the j bros are kind of "schizo". on the one hand, they'll tell you that the group was big, but never admit that that was b/c of mj. however, on the other hand, they clearly realize this. they never wanted to embark on their own tour because they knew that what is happening now with the cancelled shows would have happened then.

You make some really interesting points... and I exactly agree with you. I find it so annoying how they use to always beg Michael to tour with them when it was obvious Michael was done with them musically. They shoud have relied on their OWN talents and rebuild the group instead of using their brother as a cash cow. Thats the only reason why I feel they are trying to do it now since Michael has passed.

Its to late for that now but I guess if music is what they sincerely enjoy doing and not in it for the accolades/money than it should be okay but with them its obviously the latter.

Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Jermaine has released more solo albums (non compilations) than Mike. Jermaine has 13 and Mike has 11. Jermaine, Tito, and Marlon produced some other acts in the early 1980's. I don't know what happened with that. Tito has a career now as a blues singer.

They could've done more than they did... that's kind of a tragedy.

but you would have to admit that in spite of that, jermaine's commitment to music is sporadic at best. did he ever get band together to tour in support of those albums? did he try to just be a touring act? did he keep writing and producing others? he produced a couple of great songs for switch that have stood the test of time on the rnb tip, so i'm sure that he could have gotten something going with other writers and producers. what about being a session musician, play on other people's records?

i keep hearing people say that tito is a blues singer, and that may well be, but does he actually have a following? how long has he been doing it? i think that's a fairly recent development, no? good for him, but my impression when i hear that is that i wonder what took him so long?

i agree with timmy.

mjscarousal said:

kibbles said:

the j bros. should have been taking notes. found another lead singer or just use jermaine, found other musicians, and had randy and jackie continue to write songs. change the name of the band, definitely. i don't think they wouldn't be in this situation now.

i just think that the j bros are kind of "schizo". on the one hand, they'll tell you that the group was big, but never admit that that was b/c of mj. however, on the other hand, they clearly realize this. they never wanted to embark on their own tour because they knew that what is happening now with the cancelled shows would have happened then.

You make some really interesting points... and I exactly agree with you. I find it so annoying how they use to always beg Michael to tour with them when it was obvious Michael was done with them musically. They shoud have relied on their OWN talents and rebuild the group instead of using their brother as a cash cow. Thats the only reason why I feel they are trying to do it now since Michael has passed.

Its to late for that now but I guess if music is what they sincerely enjoy doing and not in it for the accolades/money than it should be okay but with them its obviously the latter.

exactly.

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

They could've done more than they did... that's kind of a tragedy.

but you would have to admit that in spite of that, jermaine's commitment to music is sporadic at best. did he ever get band together to tour in support of those albums? did he try to just be a touring act? did he keep writing and producing others? he produced a couple of great songs for switch that have stood the test of time on the rnb tip, so i'm sure that he could have gotten something going with other writers and producers. what about being a session musician, play on other people's records?

i keep hearing people say that tito is a blues singer, and that may well be, but does he actually have a following? how long has he been doing it? i think that's a fairly recent development, no? good for him, but my impression when i hear that is that i wonder what took him so long?

i agree with timmy.

From what I read in Margaret's book, Jermaine tried touring for the Two Ships album (or the album that had "I Think It's Love") but it might've been a promotional tour and it bombed so badly Jermaine decided not to tour. When he released Don't Take It Personal, he tried to get Janet to let him open for her on her Rhythm Nation tour the following year and she rebuffed him. Of course he toured with the Jacksons when his 1984 self-titled album came out (and he probably would've gotten more success if he toured solo than relying on his past glory to make a comeback in the press at the expense of Michael). I don't recall him being on tour sets for any of the other albums he released though. There's not too many footage or pictures of Jermaine during his initial solo years (1975-1982) except on selected things like on the Midnight Special or Soul Train.

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

They could've done more than they did... that's kind of a tragedy.

but you would have to admit that in spite of that, jermaine's commitment to music is sporadic at best. did he ever get band together to tour in support of those albums? did he try to just be a touring act? did he keep writing and producing others? he produced a couple of great songs for switch that have stood the test of time on the rnb tip, so i'm sure that he could have gotten something going with other writers and producers. what about being a session musician, play on other people's records?

i keep hearing people say that tito is a blues singer, and that may well be, but does he actually have a following? how long has he been doing it? i think that's a fairly recent development, no? good for him, but my impression when i hear that is that i wonder what took him so long?

i agree with timmy.

Jermaine toured on the regular when he released his albums. He has produced for a lot of acts in the 70s and 80s.

And for Tito, I think he's been touring constand since the late 90s' I wanna say.

All the other brothers basically stopped doin their own music or for other by the late 80s. 2300 Jackson Street is really the last project they worked on. But before that album, they were regulars either doing their own thing or working with others.

Only Jermaine continued to record after 2300 and that was just one album. And Tito worked with his sons a lot.

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

They could've done more than they did... that's kind of a tragedy.

but you would have to admit that in spite of that, jermaine's commitment to music is sporadic at best. did he ever get band together to tour in support of those albums? did he try to just be a touring act? did he keep writing and producing others? he produced a couple of great songs for switch that have stood the test of time on the rnb tip, so i'm sure that he could have gotten something going with other writers and producers. what about being a session musician, play on other people's records?

i keep hearing people say that tito is a blues singer, and that may well be, but does he actually have a following? how long has he been doing it? i think that's a fairly recent development, no? good for him, but my impression when i hear that is that i wonder what took him so long?

i agree with timmy.

Tito exactly does have a following. His shows do pretty well...

Now Im not sure how BIG of a following he has but he does...

mjscarousal said:

kibbles said:

but you would have to admit that in spite of that, jermaine's commitment to music is sporadic at best. did he ever get band together to tour in support of those albums? did he try to just be a touring act? did he keep writing and producing others? he produced a couple of great songs for switch that have stood the test of time on the rnb tip, so i'm sure that he could have gotten something going with other writers and producers. what about being a session musician, play on other people's records?

i keep hearing people say that tito is a blues singer, and that may well be, but does he actually have a following? how long has he been doing it? i think that's a fairly recent development, no? good for him, but my impression when i hear that is that i wonder what took him so long?

i agree with timmy.

Tito exactly does have a following. His shows do pretty well...

Now Im not sure how BIG of a following he has but he does...

Hasn't Tito toured as a guitarist for different bands over the years?

Tito had started doing blues tours around 2003 but I don't know about anywhere between 1990 and 2002 though it's possible he was doing blues tours even then. Who knows?

kibbles said:

but you would have to admit that in spite of that, jermaine's commitment to music is sporadic at best. did he ever get band together to tour in support of those albums? did he try to just be a touring act? did he keep writing and producing others? he produced a couple of great songs for switch that have stood the test of time on the rnb tip, so i'm sure that he could have gotten something going with other writers and producers. what about being a session musician, play on other people's records?

i keep hearing people say that tito is a blues singer, and that may well be, but does he actually have a following? how long has he been doing it? i think that's a fairly recent development, no? good for him, but my impression when i hear that is that i wonder what took him so long?

i agree with timmy.

Everyone doesn't get the same attention from radio or the media. Look at when Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Ron Wood, Bill Wyman, and Charlie Watts released solo records and other side projects like Rhythm Kings and Superheavy. Not many people bought it and they recieved little if any airplay. Would any of them doing solo tours get the same audiences as touring as The Stones?

purplethunder3121 said:

mjscarousal said:

Tito exactly does have a following. His shows do pretty well...

Now Im not sure how BIG of a following he has but he does...

Hasn't Tito toured as a guitarist for different bands over the years?

Im not to to to knowledgable about Tito projects but he does tour with other bands (sometimes) but he does most of his shows by himself with his own band. Oh and might I add HIS band is FIREEEEEE pretty good

Show from Japan 2010

Show from Chicago 2010

[Edited 6/1/12 16:30pm]

I'm guessing if the Jacksons did anything after 1990, it didn't get broadcasted... who knows? The Stones got some big headlines for splinter stuff for a time. It's kinda ironic how most groups once a core part of their act leaves or whatever either manage to get by by doing other stuff or just stop things altogether. Tito did manage 3T for a long time, didn't he?

Timmy84 said:

I'm guessing if the Jacksons did anything after 1990, it didn't get broadcasted... who knows? The Stones got some big headlines for splinter stuff for a time. It's kinda ironic how most groups once a core part of their act leaves or whatever either manage to get by by doing other stuff or just stop things altogether. Tito did manage 3T for a long time, didn't he?

I don't think Marlon was doing much in music after his solo album. I just remember he owned some Christian TV network. The past few years he's been trying to build some resort in Nigeria. Jackie has been trying to put Dealz out there, but he hasen't caught on other than appearing in an Aaliyah video.

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

I'm guessing if the Jacksons did anything after 1990, it didn't get broadcasted... who knows? The Stones got some big headlines for splinter stuff for a time. It's kinda ironic how most groups once a core part of their act leaves or whatever either manage to get by by doing other stuff or just stop things altogether. Tito did manage 3T for a long time, didn't he?

I don't think Marlon was doing much in music after his solo album. I just remember he owned some Christian TV network. The past few years he's been trying to build some resort in Nigeria. Jackie has been trying to put Dealz out there, but he hasen't caught on other than appearing in an Aaliyah video.

I forgot about Dealz. Ain't he like 35 now? That shit ain't gonna work. He just needs to give it up.

Tito did manage his sons "3T" and I believe they were on Michaels label at least for the first album they were since Michael produced it.

Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

I don't think Marlon was doing much in music after his solo album. I just remember he owned some Christian TV network. The past few years he's been trying to build some resort in Nigeria. Jackie has been trying to put Dealz out there, but he hasen't caught on other than appearing in an Aaliyah video.

I forgot about Dealz. Ain't he like 35 now? That shit ain't gonna work. He just needs to give it up.

I remember homie signed to Ruff Ryders like 15 years ago. DMX must of found out he was a Jackson and dumped his ass ...

Timmy84 said:

kibbles said:

but you would have to admit that in spite of that, jermaine's commitment to music is sporadic at best. did he ever get band together to tour in support of those albums? did he try to just be a touring act? did he keep writing and producing others? he produced a couple of great songs for switch that have stood the test of time on the rnb tip, so i'm sure that he could have gotten something going with other writers and producers. what about being a session musician, play on other people's records?

i keep hearing people say that tito is a blues singer, and that may well be, but does he actually have a following? how long has he been doing it? i think that's a fairly recent development, no? good for him, but my impression when i hear that is that i wonder what took him so long?

i agree with timmy.

From what I read in Margaret's book, Jermaine tried touring for the Two Ships album (or the album that had "I Think It's Love") but it might've been a promotional tour and it bombed so badly Jermaine decided not to tour. When he released Don't Take It Personal, he tried to get Janet to let him open for her on her Rhythm Nation tour the following year and she rebuffed him. Of course he toured with the Jacksons when his 1984 self-titled album came out (and he probably would've gotten more success if he toured solo than relying on his past glory to make a comeback in the press at the expense of Michael). I don't recall him being on tour sets for any of the other albums he released though. There's not too many footage or pictures of Jermaine during his initial solo years (1975-1982) except on selected things like on the Midnight Special or Soul Train.

wow, timmy. for someone who was too young to remember these events from your own experience, you certainly are very perceptive and accurate!

no, he didn't tour or anything. since he wasn't missed when he left the j5, no one gave it a second thought, though. i don't recall *anyone* *ever* - not ever - saying that they missed jermaine's presence in the jacksons and wished he was back. no one, timmy, no one.

i can't believe that he expected janet to let him be her opening act. someone of janet's popularity at that time would have wanted someone 'hot' to open for her. jermaine was *never* hot. true, he parlayed his victory tour stint into a contract with arista and some minor hits. but there was/is something about him that is 'off-putting' for lack of a better word, and he doesn't seem to realize that. personally, i think it had to do with the victory tour. that whole thing painted this image of jermaine that he's never really been able to shake - opportunist. everyone could see that he was jumping back into the group to get paid, and nothing more. that i do remember. so not only did he shoot himself in the foot by not establishing himself as a bona fide musician and songwriter out of the gate during the '75-'82 period, he solidified his second-tier status from '84 onward by generally leaving a bad taste in people's mouths by using mj's success to try to boost his own.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

I forgot about Dealz. Ain't he like 35 now? That shit ain't gonna work. He just needs to give it up.

I remember homie signed to Ruff Ryders like 15 years ago. DMX must of found out he was a Jackson and dumped his ass ...

I wouldn't be surprised though.

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

From what I read in Margaret's book, Jermaine tried touring for the Two Ships album (or the album that had "I Think It's Love") but it might've been a promotional tour and it bombed so badly Jermaine decided not to tour. When he released Don't Take It Personal, he tried to get Janet to let him open for her on her Rhythm Nation tour the following year and she rebuffed him. Of course he toured with the Jacksons when his 1984 self-titled album came out (and he probably would've gotten more success if he toured solo than relying on his past glory to make a comeback in the press at the expense of Michael). I don't recall him being on tour sets for any of the other albums he released though. There's not too many footage or pictures of Jermaine during his initial solo years (1975-1982) except on selected things like on the Midnight Special or Soul Train.

wow, timmy. for someone who was too young to remember these events from your own experience, you certainly are very perceptive and accurate!

no, he didn't tour or anything. since he wasn't missed when he left the j5, no one gave it a second thought, though. i don't recall *anyone* *ever* - not ever - saying that they missed jermaine's presence in the jacksons and wished he was back. no one, timmy, no one.

i can't believe that he expected janet to let him be her opening act. someone of janet's popularity at that time would have wanted someone 'hot' to open for her. jermaine was *never* hot. true, he parlayed his victory tour stint into a contract with arista and some minor hits. but there was/is something about him that is 'off-putting' for lack of a better word, and he doesn't seem to realize that. personally, i think it had to do with the victory tour. that whole thing painted this image of jermaine that he's never really been able to shake - opportunist. everyone could see that he was jumping back into the group to get paid, and nothing more. that i do remember. so not only did he shoot himself in the foot by not establishing himself as a bona fide musician and songwriter out of the gate during the '75-'82 period, he solidified his second-tier status from '84 onward by generally leaving a bad taste in people's mouths by using mj's success to try to boost his own.

Yeah it's like he had the opportunity to really branch out if he really wanted to. He surely had the ego but I guess he lacked the nerve because he could've easily told Berry "I want the top producers" blah blah blah... maybe he should've let Stevie produce his shit full time I don't know but yeah lots of wasted opportunity especially considering from clips I saw he was good as a bass player and he surely had one of the best voices in that entire family besides Michael. But all he was looking for was money.

MickyDolenz said:

kibbles said:

but you would have to admit that in spite of that, jermaine's commitment to music is sporadic at best. did he ever get band together to tour in support of those albums? did he try to just be a touring act? did he keep writing and producing others? he produced a couple of great songs for switch that have stood the test of time on the rnb tip, so i'm sure that he could have gotten something going with other writers and producers. what about being a session musician, play on other people's records?

i keep hearing people say that tito is a blues singer, and that may well be, but does he actually have a following? how long has he been doing it? i think that's a fairly recent development, no? good for him, but my impression when i hear that is that i wonder what took him so long?

i agree with timmy.

Everyone doesn't get the same attention from radio or the media. Look at when Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Ron Wood, Bill Wyman, and Charlie Watts released solo records and other side projects like Rhythm Kings and Superheavy. Not many people bought it and they recieved little if any airplay. Would any of them doing solo tours get the same audiences as touring as The Stones?

true, they wouldn't. i wouldn't necessarily expect that. but it is my perception is that jermaine half-heartedly approached his career. while their side projects may not have panned out, i never get the impression that the stones, as individuals, take that approach to their music and what they do.

i'm happy for tito that he finally stepped away from the 'jackson' paradigm, and is making some progress.

kibbles said:

he parlayed his victory tour stint into a contract with arista and some minor hits.

Jermaine was already signed to Arista and already recorded an album before rejoining the group. He wasn't originally a part of the Victory album. He joined halfway through the sessions. Torture was a duet between Jackie and Mike. Jackie's lead was removed and Jermaine overdubbed his part. Jermaine is also the only one who didn't write any songs or have any solo leads on the record. Jermaine didn't appear in the group music videos, but he shot videos for his own album. There's also several publicity photos that the brothers shot prior to Jermaine including a Little Rascals style album cover for Victory.

MickyDolenz said:

kibbles said:

he parlayed his victory tour stint into a contract with arista and some minor hits.

Jermaine was already signed to Arista and already recorded an album before rejoining the group. He wasn't originally a part of the Victory album. He joined halfway through the sessions. Torture was a duet between Jackie and Mike. Jackie's lead was removed and Jermaine overdubbed his part. Jermaine is also the only one who didn't write any songs or have any solo leads on the record. Jermaine didn't appear in the group music videos, but he shot videos for his own album. There's also several publicity photos that the brothers shot prior to Jermaine including a Little Rascals style album cover for Victory.

Jermaine and Jackie had mad beef during this period... so that's not surprising. Wasn't Victory supposed to be another album with the Jackie-Tito-Marlon-Michael-Randy lineup and it changed sometime after October 1983?

Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Jermaine was already signed to Arista and already recorded an album before rejoining the group. He wasn't originally a part of the Victory album. He joined halfway through the sessions. Torture was a duet between Jackie and Mike. Jackie's lead was removed and Jermaine overdubbed his part. Jermaine is also the only one who didn't write any songs or have any solo leads on the record. Jermaine didn't appear in the group music videos, but he shot videos for his own album. There's also several publicity photos that the brothers shot prior to Jermaine including a Little Rascals style album cover for Victory.

Jermaine and Jackie had mad beef during this period... so that's not surprising. Wasn't Victory supposed to be another album with the Jackie-Tito-Marlon-Michael-Randy lineup and it changed sometime after October 1983?

I don't know the dates, but yeah, it was the same quintet that had been at Epic. I'm not sure how Jermaine became involved. Jermaine had asked Mike to sing on Rockwell's song. Mike also sang on Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' from Jermaine's solo record. I guess this is around the same time period.

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

Jermaine and Jackie had mad beef during this period... so that's not surprising. Wasn't Victory supposed to be another album with the Jackie-Tito-Marlon-Michael-Randy lineup and it changed sometime after October 1983?

I don't know the dates, but yeah, it was the same quintet that had been at Epic. I'm not sure how Jermaine became involved. Jermaine had asked Mike to sing on Rockwell's song. Mike also sang on Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' from Jermaine's solo record. I guess this is around the same time period.

I guess things really popped off after the Motown 25 show. And I guess him in between labels and Mike doin this album with Thriller still hot on the charts, it only made sense for him to be apart of Victory.

And, maybe he did know this was gonna be Mike's last album with the familym so why not Jermaie be apart of it too.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

MickyDolenz said:

I don't know the dates, but yeah, it was the same quintet that had been at Epic. I'm not sure how Jermaine became involved. Jermaine had asked Mike to sing on Rockwell's song. Mike also sang on Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' from Jermaine's solo record. I guess this is around the same time period.

I guess things really popped off after the Motown 25 show. And I guess him in between labels and Mike doin this album with Thriller still hot on the charts, it only made sense for him to be apart of Victory.

And, maybe he did know this was gonna be Mike's last album with the family so why not Jermaine be apart of it too.

I forgot about Motown 25. Maybe that's how Jermaine rejoined the group. I wonder what made Jermaine leave Motown. I also wonder why Clive Davis decided to use him to introduce Whitney Houston and produce a few of her songs.