Tboz talks about it starting at 3:23

Left Gives Music Business math 101 lesson at 4:00

Arista ripped off a lot of artists.

Why is it that I can't buy this at all?

Maybe it's because they were three bite-sized women and he's some big record exec who probably has security up the ass on a regular basis...

Artists that sign to major labels rip themselves off. They don't read the contracts and realize that everything is an advance. You bring nothing in, so why the hell do labels owe you something? They put up the money. No one gives you anything in this world.

Until a label recoups, then you earn nothing. Artists need proper management and legal counse. There is one artist I know in particulat who sells at least platinum every time she has a release, but she earn zero artist royalties, why, because she is so advanced for things like hair and nails into the future. She makes her money via product endorsements and concert apperances. Universal loves to see her coming for a check.

TLC got advances from their then manager Pebbles, from their label (Pebble ex-husband L.A. Reid) and they were finished before they got staryrf. Additionally the most lucrative thing, their publishing, they made a publishing deal and got advances for that.

On their last tour, they were on bad female terms, so each had their own tour bus, so the profit margin was diminished off the top,

Before people make general commenst about record labels ripping off artists, etc., arm thyselves with all of the facts. No one forces these acts to sign with major labels, and reading is fundamental. If more of these acts would be concerned about quality music as opposed to hitting a lick for fame/fortune, thinsg would be better. Nothing good comes easy.

Timmy84 said:

Arista ripped off a lot of artists.

RnBAmbassador said:

Artists that sign to major labels rip themselves off. They don't read the contracts and realize that everything is an advance. You bring nothing in, so why the hell do labels owe you something? They put up the money. No one gives you anything in this world.

Until a label recoups, then you earn nothing. Artists need proper management and legal counse. There is one artist I know in particulat who sells at least platinum every time she has a release, but she earn zero artist royalties, why, because she is so advanced for things like hair and nails into the future. She makes her money via product endorsements and concert apperances. Universal loves to see her coming for a check.

TLC got advances from their then manager Pebbles, from their label (Pebble ex-husband L.A. Reid) and they were finished before they got staryrf. Additionally the most lucrative thing, their publishing, they made a publishing deal and got advances for that.

On their last tour, they were on bad female terms, so each had their own tour bus, so the profit margin was diminished off the top,

Before people make general commenst about record labels ripping off artists, etc., arm thyselves with all of the facts. No one forces these acts to sign with major labels, and reading is fundamental. If more of these acts would be concerned about quality music as opposed to hitting a lick for fame/fortune, thinsg would be better. Nothing good comes easy.

Timmy84 said:

Arista ripped off a lot of artists.

Sometimes these young artist don't know any better. They know that (execs) that's hw they get tem to sign. Inner city kids who've never had anything are quick to sigh a conract of anything. They don't know the ins and outs about the music business, they figure this is better than nothing.

One thing we can all agree on, "nothing is for free", including legal counsel and fees.

P.S. With the exception of people infringing on copyrighted music; the folks (record companies) who once stoled from everybody are now being stoled on. Karma is a....

[Edited 2/26/12 7:37am]

LittleBLUECorvette said:

RnBAmbassador said:

Artists that sign to major labels rip themselves off. They don't read the contracts and realize that everything is an advance. You bring nothing in, so why the hell do labels owe you something? They put up the money. No one gives you anything in this world.

Until a label recoups, then you earn nothing. Artists need proper management and legal counse. There is one artist I know in particulat who sells at least platinum every time she has a release, but she earn zero artist royalties, why, because she is so advanced for things like hair and nails into the future. She makes her money via product endorsements and concert apperances. Universal loves to see her coming for a check.

TLC got advances from their then manager Pebbles, from their label (Pebble ex-husband L.A. Reid) and they were finished before they got staryrf. Additionally the most lucrative thing, their publishing, they made a publishing deal and got advances for that.

On their last tour, they were on bad female terms, so each had their own tour bus, so the profit margin was diminished off the top,

Before people make general commenst about record labels ripping off artists, etc., arm thyselves with all of the facts. No one forces these acts to sign with major labels, and reading is fundamental. If more of these acts would be concerned about quality music as opposed to hitting a lick for fame/fortune, thinsg would be better. Nothing good comes easy.

Sometimes these young artist don't know any better. They know that (execs) that's hw they get tem to sign. Inner city kids who've never had anything are quick to sigh a conract of anything. They don't know the ins and outs about the music business, they figure this is better than nothing.

Exactly. I think people NOWADAYS who wanna be artists definitely need to have smart people around them to make sure they don't get ripped off. There was no schooling on this the last century, which can explain why TLC would allegedly try to "open up shop" on Clive and 'em.

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Sometimes these young artist don't know any better. They know that (execs) that's hw they get tem to sign. Inner city kids who've never had anything are quick to sigh a conract of anything. They don't know the ins and outs about the music business, they figure this is better than nothing.

Exactly. I think people NOWADAYS who wanna be artists definitely need to have smart people around them to make sure they don't get ripped off. There was no schooling on this the last century, which can explain why TLC would allegedly try to "open up shop" on Clive and 'em.

I didn't have time to finish my thougths......

People assume legal counsel or good management is the end all to be all, it can be if you get the right people, knowledgeable people. They cost.....

You do and have had artist sue lawyers and/or managers for negligence. Sadly, many artist and bands still sign on the dotted line before they have a clear understanding of what they've agreed to. Even so, artist in the past have been ripped off even when they've paid close attention to their brand, record companies fudging numbers on how many records they've sold. Since record companies no longer have much controll of distribution artist/musicians are able to keep track of what they've sold because of the way digital stores are set-up

So to Timmy concise statement is very true; to simple state its all the artist fault in some instances is placing all the blame on the victim.

TD3 said:

Timmy84 said:

Exactly. I think people NOWADAYS who wanna be artists definitely need to have smart people around them to make sure they don't get ripped off. There was no schooling on this the last century, which can explain why TLC would allegedly try to "open up shop" on Clive and 'em.

I didn't have time to finish my thougths......

People assume legal counsel or good management is the end all to be all, it can be if you get the right people, knowledgeable people. They cost.....

You do and have had artist sue lawyers and/or managers for negligence. Sadly, many artist and bands still sign on the dotted line before they have a clear understanding of what they've agreed to. Even so, artist in the past have been ripped off even when they've paid close attention to their brand, record companies fudging numbers on how many records they've sold. Since record companies no longer have much controll of distribution artist/musicians are able to keep track of what they've sold because of the way digital stores are set-up

So to Timmy concise statement is very true; to simple state its all the artist fault in some instances is placing all the blame on the victim.

Yeah it wasn't like the artist knew they were getting into. They see a contract and money. Money is foreign to someone with humble experiences. They always had to see their parents or parent pay bills just so they could have heating and water, food on the table and a complacent roof so when they're recognized for their musical talent and are offered a contract, no one thinks of the future, they all think of "ooh I'm gonna make some money". A lot of folks fall into that trap. It's easy to say "you should read it" or "get a lawyer to look into it" when you're not walking in their shoes.

Dren5 said:

Why is it that I can't buy this at all?

Maybe it's because they were three bite-sized women and he's some big record exec who probably has security up the ass on a regular basis...

T Boz was once married to Mack 10, a gangsta rapper from Inglewood. Left Eye set Andre Rison's house on fire. I don't put anything past them. Even Prince has said, "I may be small, but so is dynamite".

RnBAmbassador said:

Artists that sign to major labels rip themselves off. They don't read the contracts and realize that everything is an advance. You bring nothing in, so why the hell do labels owe you something? They put up the money. No one gives you anything in this world.

Until a label recoups, then you earn nothing. Artists need proper management and legal counse. There is one artist I know in particulat who sells at least platinum every time she has a release, but she earn zero artist royalties, why, because she is so advanced for things like hair and nails into the future. She makes her money via product endorsements and concert apperances. Universal loves to see her coming for a check.

TLC got advances from their then manager Pebbles, from their label (Pebble ex-husband L.A. Reid) and they were finished before they got staryrf. Additionally the most lucrative thing, their publishing, they made a publishing deal and got advances for that.

On their last tour, they were on bad female terms, so each had their own tour bus, so the profit margin was diminished off the top,

Before people make general commenst about record labels ripping off artists, etc., arm thyselves with all of the facts. No one forces these acts to sign with major labels, and reading is fundamental. If more of these acts would be concerned about quality music as opposed to hitting a lick for fame/fortune, thinsg would be better. Nothing good comes easy.

There oughta be some kind of music business class that aspiring artists could take before they sign any recording contract.A money management course would also be a good idea.

MadamGoodnight said:

Dren5 said:

Why is it that I can't buy this at all?

Maybe it's because they were three bite-sized women and he's some big record exec who probably has security up the ass on a regular basis...

T Boz was once married to Mack 10, a gangsta rapper from Inglewood. Left Eye set Andre Rison's house on fire. I don't put anything past them. Even Prince has said, "I may be small, but so is dynamite".

And don't forget about Chilli, who once dated & has a son by Dallas Austin, a producer notorious for name-checking a few female artists that were F***ing For Tracks!

RnBAmbassador said:

Artists that sign to major labels rip themselves off. They don't read the contracts and realize that everything is an advance.

This is something I've NEVER understood. An advance is just another way of saying a loan.

If that is true, why in the hell do these artist pay "taxes" or owe taxes on a loan?

Why is it claimed as income when it is clearly NOT income?

Timmy84 said:

Arista ripped off a lot of artists.

Think about it, Arista didn't rip them off, they didn't educate themselves.

Graycap23 said:

RnBAmbassador said:

Artists that sign to major labels rip themselves off. They don't read the contracts and realize that everything is an advance.

This is something I've NEVER understood. An advance is just another way of saying a loan.

If that is true, why in the hell do these artist pay "taxes" or owe taxes on a loan?

Why is it claimed as income when it is clearly NOT income?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!! That never made sense to me. Another thing, not only are advances loans but they certainly don't include income from new sales that would occur after said loan has been repaid or rather, after the record company got its money back. Some of these artists are getting advances and nothing else. They're getting ripped off!

Hmm so the artists are dumbasses for not knowing, dumbasses for taking that money because they didn't read?

Okay.

It's possible to think they were tricked.

But like I said, it's easy to say they're stupid for not reading the riot act.

Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

I didn't have time to finish my thougths......

People assume legal counsel or good management is the end all to be all, it can be if you get the right people, knowledgeable people. They cost.....

You do and have had artist sue lawyers and/or managers for negligence. Sadly, many artist and bands still sign on the dotted line before they have a clear understanding of what they've agreed to. Even so, artist in the past have been ripped off even when they've paid close attention to their brand, record companies fudging numbers on how many records they've sold. Since record companies no longer have much controll of distribution artist/musicians are able to keep track of what they've sold because of the way digital stores are set-up

So to Timmy concise statement is very true; to simple state its all the artist fault in some instances is placing all the blame on the victim.

Yeah it wasn't like the artist knew they were getting into. They see a contract and money. Money is foreign to someone with humble experiences. They always had to see their parents or parent pay bills just so they could have heating and water, food on the table and a complacent roof so when they're recognized for their musical talent and are offered a contract, no one thinks of the future, they all think of "ooh I'm gonna make some money". A lot of folks fall into that trap. It's easy to say "you should read it" or "get a lawyer to look into it" when you're not walking in their shoes.

Thing is that this still goes on very much at the labels still, unless you are on your own, there really is no way u can survive just selling records. Elton John said this in a recent interview about Simon Cowell and all the shit shows he produces, elton feels for the people that win because where do they go? there was no struggle to get there, they have no musical chops, no road background so once the initial wave wears off, where are they? its very few that can hang on, but if they cant tour they are done. Labels still make money and 360 deals are the same thing as signing your life away. Labels have to invest almost nothing in you now, they can get an artist like Kesha, make a few million of a couple of sinlges, give her a few pennies on those million and bring on the next "kesha" in a year, i cant stand when people say labels are hurtin, they arent, they adapted and this is their new way, they dumbed down with the audience, and alot of the older folks just packed up and went indie and sell their stuff through their websites and make $$ playing shows because they have the audience and fan base that will come out, others like a Kesha does not have an audience that will pay 40 bucks to see her live.

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah it wasn't like the artist knew they were getting into. They see a contract and money. Money is foreign to someone with humble experiences. They always had to see their parents or parent pay bills just so they could have heating and water, food on the table and a complacent roof so when they're recognized for their musical talent and are offered a contract, no one thinks of the future, they all think of "ooh I'm gonna make some money". A lot of folks fall into that trap. It's easy to say "you should read it" or "get a lawyer to look into it" when you're not walking in their shoes.

Thing is that this still goes on very much at the labels still, unless you are on your own, there really is no way u can survive just selling records. Elton John said this in a recent interview about Simon Cowell and all the shit shows he produces, elton feels for the people that win because where do they go? there was no struggle to get there, they have no musical chops, no road background so once the initial wave wears off, where are they? its very few that can hang on, but if they cant tour they are done. Labels still make money and 360 deals are the same thing as signing your life away. Labels have to invest almost nothing in you now, they can get an artist like Kesha, make a few million of a couple of sinlges, give her a few pennies on those million and bring on the next "kesha" in a year, i cant stand when people say labels are hurtin, they arent, they adapted and this is their new way, they dumbed down with the audience, and alot of the older folks just packed up and went indie and sell their stuff through their websites and make $$ playing shows because they have the audience and fan base that will come out, others like a Kesha does not have an audience that will pay 40 bucks to see her live.

Yeah artists nowadays don't even need labels. Labels always trick someone into a contract after the promise of money and all that shit.

Timmy84 said:

lastdecember said:

Thing is that this still goes on very much at the labels still, unless you are on your own, there really is no way u can survive just selling records. Elton John said this in a recent interview about Simon Cowell and all the shit shows he produces, elton feels for the people that win because where do they go? there was no struggle to get there, they have no musical chops, no road background so once the initial wave wears off, where are they? its very few that can hang on, but if they cant tour they are done. Labels still make money and 360 deals are the same thing as signing your life away. Labels have to invest almost nothing in you now, they can get an artist like Kesha, make a few million of a couple of sinlges, give her a few pennies on those million and bring on the next "kesha" in a year, i cant stand when people say labels are hurtin, they arent, they adapted and this is their new way, they dumbed down with the audience, and alot of the older folks just packed up and went indie and sell their stuff through their websites and make $$ playing shows because they have the audience and fan base that will come out, others like a Kesha does not have an audience that will pay 40 bucks to see her live.

Yeah artists nowadays don't even need labels. Labels always trick someone into a contract after the promise of money and all that shit.

Damn, Timmy, you're too young for such sardonic points of view...

purplethunder3121 said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah artists nowadays don't even need labels. Labels always trick someone into a contract after the promise of money and all that shit.

Damn, Timmy, you're too young for such sardonic points of view...

I'm almost 30. Ain't like I'm 17 or 18 anymore.

Timmy84 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Damn, Timmy, you're too young for such sardonic points of view...

I'm almost 30. Ain't like I'm 17 or 18 anymore.

No. but when I was 30 I had a more positive outlook on life and music than seems to be the norm now. But maybe you are "an old soul" who prefers (at least what I consider) better music. You certainly know more about artists my age and older. But, you go dude! Just don't let the passing away of your favorite older artists affect you that personally--even Whitney.

damn, i want to be "almost 30" again and not "actually fucking 30"

speaking of...can't believe Lisa was only 30 when she passed. Yes, I sobbed many times over MJ. Yes I have cried for Whitney - but Lisa - that was just so...can't even type any more about it

I'm not sure about this urban legend. the way it was originally told when I first heard it was just that Lisa brought her posse of 'hood' chicks and they forced their way in there - didn't know guns were involved. It could all be for hype/drama, but I could never tell if TLC were bigger badasses than they appeared, or vice versa - if they played up the 'thugness' or whatever.

purplethunder3121 said:

Timmy84 said:

I'm almost 30. Ain't like I'm 17 or 18 anymore.

No. but when I was 30 I had a more positive outlook on life and music than seems to be the norm now. But maybe you are "an old soul" who prefers (at least what I consider) better music. You certainly know more about artists my age and older. But, you go dude! Just don't let the passing away of your favorite older artists affect you that personally--even Whitney.

Nah I'm still positive but I'm a realist too.

badujunkie said:

damn, i want to be "almost 30" again and not "actually fucking 30"

speaking of...can't believe Lisa was only 30 when she passed. Yes, I sobbed many times over MJ. Yes I have cried for Whitney - but Lisa - that was just so...can't even type any more about it

I'm not sure about this urban legend. the way it was originally told when I first heard it was just that Lisa brought her posse of 'hood' chicks and they forced their way in there - didn't know guns were involved. It could all be for hype/drama, but I could never tell if TLC were bigger badasses than they appeared, or vice versa - if they played up the 'thugness' or whatever.

Lisa's death is still sad as fuck...

daPrettyman said:

Timmy84 said:

Arista ripped off a lot of artists.

Think about it, Arista didn't rip them off, they didn't educate themselves.

I happen to think it's both. Isn't it? Surely people who are taking that much from a person who does the work knows they are fucking them. And no matter how naive the other party is, they bear responsibility too. It's a lot like boxing, constantly I'm hearing some tale of woe about some ex-boxer and I don't really feel much sympathy anymore because they know what they are doing. I've known mma fighters who bitch and moan about how screwed they got and I tell them "that's your fault". These dummies go through lots of years of hoop jumping, kissing ass for next to no money, certain injury and then want to whine about it, what's more, they criticized me for not "training" being a hardhead, whatever. You just have to ask yourself what makes someone do those things? Some people just are so hungry for some kind of fame that they'll do anything, some people have such deep seated psychological issues that they'll do some stupid shit. History is out there, there are no secrets and no excuses for getting exploited other than just being a weak person in my opinion. On the other hand, that does not absolve the Clive Davis' of the world, I tell you, I literally got sick to my stomach hearing how he kept the party going with whitney's body in the hotel. Those kinds of things make me believe the human race is hopeless.

petes2 said:

daPrettyman said:

Think about it, Arista didn't rip them off, they didn't educate themselves.

I happen to think it's both. Isn't it? Surely people who are taking that much from a person who does the work knows they are fucking them. And no matter how naive the other party is, they bear responsibility too. It's a lot like boxing, constantly I'm hearing some tale of woe about some ex-boxer and I don't really feel much sympathy anymore because they know what they are doing. I've known mma fighters who bitch and moan about how screwed they got and I tell them "that's your fault". These dummies go through lots of years of hoop jumping, kissing ass for next to no money, certain injury and then want to whine about it, what's more, they criticized me for not "training" being a hardhead, whatever. You just have to ask yourself what makes someone do those things? Some people just are so hungry for some kind of fame that they'll do anything, some people have such deep seated psychological issues that they'll do some stupid shit. History is out there, there are no secrets and no excuses for getting exploited other than just being a weak person in my opinion. On the other hand, that does not absolve the Clive Davis' of the world, I tell you, I literally got sick to my stomach hearing how he kept the party going with whitney's body in the hotel. Those kinds of things make me believe the human race is hopeless.

I definitely get that people get into it not knowing shit. Some get tricked and some are dumb enough to do anything for money, they try it but the powers that be are much to blame too.

[Edited 2/27/12 19:51pm]

Timmy84 said:

petes2 said:

I happen to think it's both. Isn't it? Surely people who are taking that much from a person who does the work knows they are fucking them. And no matter how naive the other party is, they bear responsibility too. It's a lot like boxing, constantly I'm hearing some tale of woe about some ex-boxer and I don't really feel much sympathy anymore because they know what they are doing. I've known mma fighters who bitch and moan about how screwed they got and I tell them "that's your fault". These dummies go through lots of years of hoop jumping, kissing ass for next to no money, certain injury and then want to whine about it, what's more, they criticized me for not "training" being a hardhead, whatever. You just have to ask yourself what makes someone do those things? Some people just are so hungry for some kind of fame that they'll do anything, some people have such deep seated psychological issues that they'll do some stupid shit. History is out there, there are no secrets and no excuses for getting exploited other than just being a weak person in my opinion. On the other hand, that does not absolve the Clive Davis' of the world, I tell you, I literally got sick to my stomach hearing how he kept the party going with whitney's body in the hotel. Those kinds of things make me believe the human race is hopeless.

I definitely get that people get into it not knowing shit. Some get tricked and some are dumb enough to do anything for money, they try it but the powers that be are much to blame too.

[Edited 2/27/12 19:51pm]

and in my opinion, anyone excusing the bastards must be the type of people who believe in that type of exploitation and are probably trying to do it themselves.

daPrettyman said:

Timmy84 said:

Arista ripped off a lot of artists.

Think about it, Arista didn't rip them off, they didn't educate themselves.

and plus,It wasn't just Arista,it was their shady manager Pebbles too.She signed them to a lousy deal in which she was making more money than they were.

SoulAlive said:

daPrettyman said:

Think about it, Arista didn't rip them off, they didn't educate themselves.

and plus,It wasn't just Arista,it was their shady manager Pebbles too.She signed them to a lousy deal in which she was making more money than they were.

Her ass has not done much since CSC made her millions either.

daPrettyman said:

SoulAlive said:

and plus,It wasn't just Arista,it was their shady manager Pebbles too.She signed them to a lousy deal in which she was making more money than they were.

Her ass has not done much since CSC made her millions either.

She was a greedy witch: married to L.A. Reid (one of the top R&B producers at the time) and still ripping off these poor girls