I absolutely LOVE that album. I used to want to be Bunny back in the day. This is still an album that I play front to back, no skipping. Too bad that they didn't have a longer career as a group.

This is so smooth. I really loved their sound, and El's falsetto.

This whole album is killer.

I always felt that this song has strong similarities to a gospel song. one of my favorites...

I've been vibin' on Bobby lately, so I thought I might add a song or 2 that includes him. One is Switch, the other is from the album in question, and yet another is from the DeBarges debut album.

ABeautifulOne said:

I always felt that this song has strong similarities to a gospel song. one of my favorites...

Most of their hits were arranged and composed initially as gospel but turned to secular. "Time Will Reveal" definitely had gospel qualities to it.

Timmy84 said:

ABeautifulOne said:

I always felt that this song has strong similarities to a gospel song. one of my favorites...

Most of their hits were arranged and composed initially as gospel but turned to secular. "Time Will Reveal" definitely had gospel qualities to it.

Yes...they used many gospel conventions in their arrangements, esp. the piano but also vocals too. IMHO, Bunny was the most conventional gospel-y voice in the group and they used her voice to add that flavor in their harmonies. She was used as an almost counterbalance to El.

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

Most of their hits were arranged and composed initially as gospel but turned to secular. "Time Will Reveal" definitely had gospel qualities to it.

Yes...they used many gospel conventions in their arrangements, esp. the piano but also vocals too. IMHO, Bunny was the most conventional gospel-y voice in the group and they used her voice to add that flavor in their harmonies. She was used as an almost counterbalance to El.

I think Bunny and El were the perfect combination in that group. Bunny definitely had more gospel influence and El more pop-soul. Put the two together, you get a masterpiece. And the other brothers also added something to the table too. Randy added some funk ("I Like It"), James R&B ("Be My Lady") and Mark added some jazz ("Stay With Me"). They definitely were a melting pot of sounds.

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

Yes...they used many gospel conventions in their arrangements, esp. the piano but also vocals too. IMHO, Bunny was the most conventional gospel-y voice in the group and they used her voice to add that flavor in their harmonies. She was used as an almost counterbalance to El.

I think Bunny and El were the perfect combination in that group. Bunny definitely had more gospel influence and El more pop-soul. Put the two together, you get a masterpiece. And the other brothers also added something to the table too. Randy added some funk ("I Like It"), James R&B ("Be My Lady") and Mark added some jazz ("Stay With Me"). They definitely were a melting pot of sounds.

Now that I listen to them again as an oldster, I'm amazed at how sophisticated their arrangements and harmonies were. When they did "Rhythm Of The Night", I was too young to know technically what changed but now I can see how crude it was compared to what THEY did.

As for Switch, I'm just stunned at how delicate and intricate their sound was. I'm still discovering here!

Funny I like the Debarge clan now even better than I did back then...and I was a huge fan then!

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

I think Bunny and El were the perfect combination in that group. Bunny definitely had more gospel influence and El more pop-soul. Put the two together, you get a masterpiece. And the other brothers also added something to the table too. Randy added some funk ("I Like It"), James R&B ("Be My Lady") and Mark added some jazz ("Stay With Me"). They definitely were a melting pot of sounds.

Now that I listen to them again as an oldster, I'm amazed at how sophisticated their arrangements and harmonies were. When they did "Rhythm Of The Night", I was too young to know technically what changed but now I can see how crude it was compared to what THEY did.

As for Switch, I'm just stunned at how delicate and intricate their sound was. I'm still discovering here!

Funny I like the Debarge clan now even better than I did back then...and I was a huge fan then!

Yeah. I think with Rhythm, Motown didn't know what to do with them. After it became a hit, Motown requested an album similar to it. I don't think the DeBarges would like that album anyways because their heart wasn't in it. It's kinda funny that all of them started looking like members of a black heavy metal band during the promotion of Rhythm especially James, Mark and El.

But I think people will be cool with their material from 1981-1983 and of course the stuff with Bobby and Switch. And yeah their sound was very delicate and intricate. I think Bobby did most of the arrangements, production and writing. Obviously El took some notes because he (and the rest of DeBarge) worked with Switch starting in '79 (I think El is singing background on "I Call Your Name" by the way).

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

Now that I listen to them again as an oldster, I'm amazed at how sophisticated their arrangements and harmonies were. When they did "Rhythm Of The Night", I was too young to know technically what changed but now I can see how crude it was compared to what THEY did.

As for Switch, I'm just stunned at how delicate and intricate their sound was. I'm still discovering here!

Funny I like the Debarge clan now even better than I did back then...and I was a huge fan then!

Yeah. I think with Rhythm, Motown didn't know what to do with them. After it became a hit, Motown requested an album similar to it. I don't think the DeBarges would like that album anyways because their heart wasn't in it. It's kinda funny that all of them started looking like members of a black heavy metal band during the promotion of Rhythm especially James, Mark and El.

But I think people will be cool with their material from 1981-1983 and of course the stuff with Bobby and Switch. And yeah their sound was very delicate and intricate. I think Bobby did most of the arrangements, production and writing. Obviously El took some notes because he (and the rest of DeBarge) worked with Switch starting in '79 (I think El is singing background on "I Call Your Name" by the way).

Actually it was more the New Romantics thing out of the UK. Strangely enough, there was a hot minute when the whole New Romantics thing was hot in the Black community...hence Adam Ant at Motown 25. Berry was really going for something like Duran Duran or Thompson Twins rather than hair bands. Nevertheless it was a big WTF moment!

Jeffery Daniel did it best w/ the hair, the clothes, the moves...it was a bad fit for DeBarge.

Yes, I think El did do some Switch stuff too. They were def out in Cali at the time and Bobby seemed intent on molding their sound, particularly El's. I don't have any of the albums, so I need to look up credits, but I think I hear him in the mix. I also think I hear Bobby in the mix on several cuts off The DeBarges. I distinctly hear 5 parts even tho they were then a quartet.

My theory is that Bobby actually trained/molded his siblings into a specific sound...soulful, but more commercial than Switch. It seems he may have had a plan of eventually joining them w/ both he and El as co-lead singers. If you listen to both versions of QofMH, you can hear this trade off between him and El where they compliment rather than compete w/ each other. Both versions of song also have different production and slightly diff arrangements.

[Edited 3/5/12 12:23pm]

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah. I think with Rhythm, Motown didn't know what to do with them. After it became a hit, Motown requested an album similar to it. I don't think the DeBarges would like that album anyways because their heart wasn't in it. It's kinda funny that all of them started looking like members of a black heavy metal band during the promotion of Rhythm especially James, Mark and El.

But I think people will be cool with their material from 1981-1983 and of course the stuff with Bobby and Switch. And yeah their sound was very delicate and intricate. I think Bobby did most of the arrangements, production and writing. Obviously El took some notes because he (and the rest of DeBarge) worked with Switch starting in '79 (I think El is singing background on "I Call Your Name" by the way).

Actually it was more the New Romantics thing out of the UK. Strangely enough, there was a hot minute when the whole New Romantics thing was hot in the Black community...hence Adam Ant at Motown 25. Berry was really going for something like Duran Duran or Thompson Twins rather than hair bands. Nevertheless it was a big WTF moment!

Jeffery Daniel did it best w/ the hair, the clothes, the moves...it was a bad fit for DeBarge.

Yes, I think El did do some Switch stuff too. They were def out in Cali at the time and Bobby seemed intent on molding their sound, particularly El's. I don't have any of the albums, so I need to look up credits, but I think I hear him in the mix. I also think I hear Bobby in the mix on several cuts off The DeBarges. I distinctly hear 5 parts even tho they were then a quartet.

My theory is that Bobby actually trained/molded his siblings into a specific sound...soulful, but more commercial than Switch. It seems he may have had a plan of eventually joining them w/ both he and El as co-lead singers. If you listen to both versions of QofM, you can hear this trade off between him and El where they compliment rather than compete w/ each other. Both versions of song also have different production and slightly diff arrangements.

Yeah that's true!

Yeah Bobby was applying background vocals for DeBarge's work. I also think Tommy DeBarge also contributed on the albums. I think the credits on Switch's album notes could be fishy but I swore I heard El in the background of "I Call Your Name". And of course El and Bunny are singing background on "My Friend in the Sky", you can definitely hear Bunny. El co-arranged the track with Bobby and played piano on it (Discogs has him listed as "Al DeBarge" though ).

And yeah, Bobby and El was definitely doing it on "Queen of My Heart". I think Bobby was actually singing the last verse (not just the ad-libs). You can hear a vocal change when it gets to the third verse which led me thinking that was Bobby and not El. El came back briefly afterwards but then Bobby ended it.

Timmy84 said:

And yeah, Bobby and El was definitely doing it on "Queen of My Heart". I think Bobby was actually singing the last verse (not just the ad-libs). You can hear a vocal change when it gets to the third verse which led me thinking that was Bobby and not El. El came back briefly afterwards but then Bobby ended it.

In the 83 version Bobby takes over from El at 1:56 and it's him to the end. El sings background harmony from this point, but never comes back into the lead.

In the '81 version El does come back to lead a sec around the 2:30-38 mark and to the end it's all Bobby.

Interestingly Bobby doesn't sing background on either version, if my ears are hearing right!

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

And yeah, Bobby and El was definitely doing it on "Queen of My Heart". I think Bobby was actually singing the last verse (not just the ad-libs). You can hear a vocal change when it gets to the third verse which led me thinking that was Bobby and not El. El came back briefly afterwards but then Bobby ended it.

In the 83 version Bobby takes over from El at 1:56 and it's him to the end. El sings background harmony from this point, but never comes back into the lead.

In the '81 version El does come back to lead a sec around the 2:30-38 mark and to the end it's all Bobby.

Interestingly Bobby doesn't sing background on either version, if my ears are hearing right!

Yeah Bobby is only singing lead. Yeah I did notice the difference in the '83 version. Bobby DeBarge was an unofficial member of DeBarge until '87 lol

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

In the 83 version Bobby takes over from El at 1:56 and it's him to the end. El sings background harmony from this point, but never comes back into the lead.

In the '81 version El does come back to lead a sec around the 2:30-38 mark and to the end it's all Bobby.

Interestingly Bobby doesn't sing background on either version, if my ears are hearing right!

Yeah Bobby is only singing lead. Yeah I did notice the difference in the '83 version. Bobby DeBarge was an unofficial member of DeBarge until '87 lol

Yup. Bobby was probably the most influential part of the group (and family, for that matter)...it's amazing how much say he had. Greg Williams didn't exaggerate it at all. The irony is neither he nor Tommy seem to have been credited for this outstanding production they were doing.

I would have loved a version of DeBarge w/ all 7 and maybe even Chico. Wowzers!

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah Bobby is only singing lead. Yeah I did notice the difference in the '83 version. Bobby DeBarge was an unofficial member of DeBarge until '87 lol

Yup. Bobby was probably the most influential part of the group (and family, for that matter)...it's amazing how much say he had. Greg Williams didn't exaggerate it at all. The irony is neither he nor Tommy seem to have been credited for this outstanding production they were doing.

I would have loved a version of DeBarge w/ all 7 and maybe even Chico. Wowzers!

Yeah... Bobby definitely coached his siblings... I often think Tommy was the one who played bass on "I Like It" for some reason...

My fav song from Debarge-I still play it to this day

The Heart Is Not So Smart is a great song to-calypso feel

Check this one out y'all. I'd never heard it before. I never knew DeBarge got this hot blooded

[Edited 3/5/12 17:20pm]

brooksie said:

Check this one out y'all. I'd never heard it before. I never knew DeBarge got this hot blooded

[Edited 3/5/12 17:20pm]

Oh yeah they got down like that. If the DeBarge boys had practiced more on their dance moves, this would've been a bigger hit. Trust.

Timmy84 said:

And yeah, Bobby and El was definitely doing it on "Queen of My Heart". I think Bobby was actually singing the last verse (not just the ad-libs). You can hear a vocal change when it gets to the third verse which led me thinking that was Bobby and not El. El came back briefly afterwards but then Bobby ended it.

Yep, I knew it. When I'm working I listen to the Time Will Reveal. . . collection and I've listened to Queen Of My Heart a trillion times, swearing each time that it is Bobby singing out that song. I keep reading the credits and don't see it, so thank you and brooksie for confirming this.

kellistarr120 said:

Timmy84 said:

And yeah, Bobby and El was definitely doing it on "Queen of My Heart". I think Bobby was actually singing the last verse (not just the ad-libs). You can hear a vocal change when it gets to the third verse which led me thinking that was Bobby and not El. El came back briefly afterwards but then Bobby ended it.

Yep, I knew it. When I'm working I listen to the Time Will Reveal. . . collection and I've listened to Queen Of My Heart a trillion times, swearing each time that it is Bobby singing out that song. I keep reading the credits and don't see it, so thank you and brooksie for confirming this.

Haha Time Will Reveal was all El baby. But you could tell Bobby influenced him. At one time during recording I Like It, Iris Gordy tried to get him to reach high notes and he retaliated with "nah stop you're trying to make me sound like Bobby!" And Iris rolled her eyes and said "you better thank your lucky stars if you sound close to Bobby." But you can tell of all the siblings, Bobby played a huge role in El's career (and probably his life since they were close until his death).

brooksie said:

Check this one out y'all. I'd never heard it before. I never knew DeBarge got this hot blooded

[Edited 3/5/12 17:20pm]

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

I never knew DeBarge got this hot blooded

Oh yeah they got down like that. If the DeBarge boys had practiced more on their dance moves, this would've been a bigger hit. Trust.

It amazes me that this was not a hit even tho they can't dance. The bass line is killer. It's very much what was happening in '82 or so.

With all that groaning and grunting El and 'em were doing...they didn't need to dance. Trust!

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

Oh yeah they got down like that. If the DeBarge boys had practiced more on their dance moves, this would've been a bigger hit. Trust.

It amazes me that this was not a hit even tho they can't dance. The bass line is killer. It's very much what was happening in '82 or so.

With all that groaning and grunting El and 'em were doing...they didn't need to dance. Trust!

Well he has ten children for a reason.

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

It amazes me that this was not a hit even tho they can't dance. The bass line is killer. It's very much what was happening in '82 or so.

With all that groaning and grunting El and 'em were doing...they didn't need to dance. Trust!

Well he has ten children for a reason.

10?! Oh Timmy no. El himself 'fessed to 12 by 6 baby mamas. His mother/sister put it at more like 15. In truth, El's probably more in Screamin' Jay Hawkins territory! This cat's been baby makin' since he was 15 or so.

Funny thing is that back in the bow tie wearing days of DeBarge, they seemed strangely SEXLESS!

We know what El's been doin' offstage and in his free time! Who's holding Donna now, indeed!

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

Well he has ten children for a reason.

10?! Oh Timmy no. El himself 'fessed to 12 by 6 baby mamas. His mother/sister put it at more like 15. In truth, El's probably more in Screamin' Jay Hawkins territory! This cat's been baby makin' since he was 15 or so.

Funny thing is that back in the bow tie wearing days of DeBarge, they seemed strangely SEXLESS!

We know what El's been doin' offstage and in his free time! Who's holding Donna now, indeed!

lol yeah I heard some numbers. Don't know what to believe.

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

10?! Oh Timmy no. El himself 'fessed to 12 by 6 baby mamas. His mother/sister put it at more like 15. In truth, El's probably more in Screamin' Jay Hawkins territory! This cat's been baby makin' since he was 15 or so.

Funny thing is that back in the bow tie wearing days of DeBarge, they seemed strangely SEXLESS!

We know what El's been doin' offstage and in his free time! Who's holding Donna now, indeed!

lol yeah I heard some numbers. Don't know what to believe.

On a serioius side, I think El has many many kids that he doesn't even know about. This guy clearly is a sucker for a pretty face, but he doesn't go for the celebs often. Most of his woman are just average unknowns who seem to mostly choose to be anon. Add to it his clear disbelief in birth control, general horn dogs ways, AND his drug addiction...naw.

Sadly El seems to take after his Daddy in that way more than most of his brothers.

When your own mama says you're sexually insatiable, dag!