Songs I don't like: "Baby Be Mine" and "P.Y.T." Never liked either.

"Beat It" is so overrated. I never intentionally listen to it.

Faves: "Billie Jean," "Human Nature" and "Wanna Be Starting Something" are my favorites.

"Thriller" is above average.

OldFriends4Sale said:

It should be ok,

If everyone stays on the Thriller album and period. It's cool

thank you

Thanks everybody for making this a nice thread-nice to remember Michael

Emancipation89 said:

brooksie said:

Perhaps for me that's the case....a huge Thriller OD back in the day. There was like 5 years when this was bumped as his most recent work. However, it also might be that Thriller was specifically crafted to be something for everyone and that lack of cohesion and this specific intention seems extremely 80s to me. Nothing wrong w/ the 80s, per se, but it just doesn't seem all that fresh to my ears today. I find it lacks nuance, unlike say "OtW" or even "Purple Rain" (which feels like more of a concept album to me these days). Back then there was so much emphasis placed on crossing over that obvious attempts to do so sound dated to me now. In a sense, Thriller was way ahead of its time...it has an almost mp3 play list feel to it due to it being so eclectic, so maybe it's a combo of things that make me say "meh".

As an LP, I'd rather have "Dangerous" rather than "Thriller" if we're judging by the whole LP wrt MJ's post "Thriller" body of work, but I like "Thriller" in parts. Certain songs, like "Beat It", "Human Nature" and "PYT" still listen great to me, but the whole LP just doesn't get my blood going like it did when I was a kid.

I see what you mean It could be me paying not much attention to the entire album as a whole and missing that crossover 80's theme you mentioned, because now that I think about it, the popular albums these days don't contain as diverse genres as Thriller...actually, I can't think of any pop album that does. To me though, Thriller just proves that pop genre hasn't really been developed that much since the 80's. This album is highly favored even by my generation, who grew up listening to hip hop oriented pop music, and it's rather evident when you look at how the bass of Billie Jean is still widely used for sampling/remixes these days, (especially at clubs), and it still sounds fresh, well, to me and my friends at least I guess lol

I do love when an album has a certain direction or a distinctive theme as whole that it flows well, if that's what you meant by "cohesion", but I don't think Thriller not being as cohesive as OTW or Purple Rain ever bothered me. In fact, that's what actually got me hooked when I first listened to this album, I just appreciate the distinctive sound in each song, since I grew up only knowing "RnB album is an RnB album, rock album is a rock album, and pop album is only a pop album"....I hope you get what I'm saying here

I love Dangerous as well, and I used to always think Thriller and Dangerous are the best albums of MJ, but recently, I've been leaning towards Thriller, just because it was most innovative album sound wise considering when it came out. When an album contains too many songs, I think it's just risky in general because people tend to select out their favorites and stick to them rather than listen to the entire album again, because it's just too long.

If anything, I'd say Off the Wall is something I could tell it came out a long time ago, because of it's disco sound, which hasn't exactly been popular for a very long time.

Thriller was definitely unique in that it touched on several different genres in a way that nobody even thought of or had the guts to try. It was and still is very ballsy in this regard. It was kind of a one time thing tho, but in a very big way. Only MJ could have pulled it off methinks! Almost no other artist had that sort of juice even in the pre-Thriller days. In some ways, this LP represented a real risk because it tried to be everything to everybody. That they actually did it is a testimony to how well it was crafted and supported.

If you grew up w/ hip hop has the primary popular music, I can see why Thriller is so fresh because it had so many sounds at once. Hip hip, for all it's pros and cons, can be rather one note. Thriller is still infinitely danceable and had a lighter touch than stuff that primarily depends on basslines. That, IMHO, is a huge element of it's crossover appeal...it was a more balanced sound than most RnB of the time.

OtW is definitely a dance/disco album that was very disco heavy in it's look and approach. That's where Thriller was a real step forward. It was able to manage to be light and have deep grooves that the same time after having ditched the disco element. Again, it was a ballsy album in many ways.

thesexofit said:

You could make a case that because of "thriller", pop albums would never quite be the same again.

The formula of

1) Start with an uptempo

2) Include a high profile duet

3) "rock" song

4) "rnb" song

5) "ballad" song

"thriller" inspired alot of other 80's pop records to do the same. Heck, its influence is still probably felt slightly today. Certainly the mix of tempo's and styles to net the widest demographic possible was a genius move, even if it was not deliberate. Indeed the fact the album does not feel half as calculated as it should is one of it's charms. I can't see much commitee thinking on this record, which sadly you couldn't say that today now that the industry has changed so much.....

Anyway, it definately changed the album game, for better or worse LOL. And I do think it probably made some black artists to try and go that route (including Jermaine Jackson and even Prince made a more commercial album with "purple rain", though it's hard to say if that was inspired by the sucsess of "thriller" but I bet Prince knew about it regardless), and of course, it paved the way for Whitney's early albums and no doubt inspired Lionals "cover all bases" approach with his excellent "can't slow down" album.

Nah, it was definitely delibrate. You didn't just go get the hottest rock guitarist at the time (ie Eddie Van Halen) or get a Beatle by acident, esp for what was essentially a then RnB artist's record. Prior to this, nobody would have thought of MJ and rock in the same sentence. Not back then you didn't, not back in an era was crossover collabs or success was still quite rare. All this was uber planned and it did just as it was intended!

Yes, it certainly made Black artists sit up and take note. For me the best example of this shift would be how Motown rapidly and radically tried to change DeBarge from a RnB ballad group to a quasi MJ-New Romantics pop group. Of course this rarely worked for already established groups/artists, but it gave them a template to try and follow. Few, quite frankly, knew how to reach a White mainstream audience and Thriller kinda sorta taught them how. Lionel Ritchie was an exception because he was also someone who wrote/produced for others and you could also add Shalamar to a degree, but most RnB acts could never get over their limited appeal to "mainstream" audeinces. If Thriller had any really negative affects, it was that it made crossover at all costs a goal for far too many RnB acts. This affected the quality of RnB and may have helped it's demise.

I personally think this is what inspired Tina Turner and Roger Davies to do the same with Private Dancer, which itself was a mixture of R&B, soul, pop, rock, synthpop, dance, reggae, etc. Tina had always wanted to do a "crossover record" and considering she was one of the first black acts to openly perform rock at a time when it wasn't the norm (with Ike Turner in the '70s), it made sense.

Timmy84 said:

I personally think this is what inspired Tina Turner and Roger Davies to do the same with Private Dancer, which itself was a mixture of R&B, soul, pop, rock, synthpop, dance, reggae, etc. Tina had always wanted to do a "crossover record" and considering she was one of the first black acts to openly perform rock at a time when it wasn't the norm (with Ike Turner in the '70s), it made sense.

I'd say Tina was one of the few acts of that era who were already crossover and pretty much successfully ditched the RnB label. "Private Dancer" was very consistant w/ Tina's progression past Ike. Frankly they'd made the transition in the 60s from RnB to pop-rock, so Tina was just doing her thang. MJ, OTOH, was still primarily RnB/dance act (solo and w/ his brothers), so Thriller was a rather more obvious attempt than Tna's effort, IMHO.

Her working even more intently w/ rock guys thru the 80s set her apart from almost all other Black acts.

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

I personally think this is what inspired Tina Turner and Roger Davies to do the same with Private Dancer, which itself was a mixture of R&B, soul, pop, rock, synthpop, dance, reggae, etc. Tina had always wanted to do a "crossover record" and considering she was one of the first black acts to openly perform rock at a time when it wasn't the norm (with Ike Turner in the '70s), it made sense.

I'd say Tina was one of the few acts of that era who were already crossover and pretty much successfully ditched the RnB label. "Private Dancer" was very consistant w/ Tina's progression past Ike. Frankly they'd made the transition in the 60s from RnB to pop-rock, so Tina was just doing her thang. MJ, OTOH, was still primarily RnB/dance act (solo and w/ his brothers), so Thriller was a rather more obvious attempt than Tna's effort, IMHO.

Her working even more intently w/ rock guys thru the 80s set her apart from almost all other Black acts.

Great point. Thanks for the correction. You're right.

JoeBala said:

Too bad this album never went anywhere. It had potential too.

Hudson said:

I'm not an MJ fan, but I love "Human Nature." No other pop artist has created a song I can say is better than that. The title track "Thriller" still scares the shit out of me, and that video too as embarassing as that is to admit.

See, I'm a total weirdo on this. I think I was nine or so when I first saw the video. I loved it, but for some reason I also thought it was HILARIOUS, and I thought everyone else thought so, too. But now I'm learning that most people do find it scary, and a lot of kids actually would have nightmares from watching it. At any rate, I especially like the part in the video where the one dude's arm falls off. I always find it interesting that people say without the video, the song Thriller would have just been a kind of novelty and faded away. I've never known the song without the video, so I can't even imagine what it would be like to not have the mental association with the video. It just goes without saying that it's a classic to me.

mjscarousal said:

crazymouse said:

As far as music goes, Bad is my favourite MJ album, followed by Dangerous or History. But lyrically, i think History beats them all. Stranger in Moscow, Tabloid Junkie, Earth Song, Money, They Don't Care about US. Just beautiful. Guess what critics thought of it? Yeah, not the best things

Of course they wouldnt.. History was a political album...

So is What's Going On...

smoothcriminal12 said:

mjscarousal said:

Of course they wouldnt.. History was a political album...

So is What's Going On...

SUPRMAN said:

Songs I don't like: "Baby Be Mine" and "P.Y.T." Never liked either.

"Beat It" is so overrated. I never intentionally listen to it.

Faves: "Billie Jean," "Human Nature" and "Wanna Be Starting Something" are my favorites.

"Thriller" is above average.

"Thriller" (the song) is my least favorite track on the album.The video is AMAZING but the song itself? Mediocre to my ears.

and there ain't no second chance against the thing with 40 eyes,girl

Oh really??

For me, it's Off The Wall over Thriller, and 1999 over Purple Rain, hands down.

SoulAlive said:

SUPRMAN said:

Songs I don't like: "Baby Be Mine" and "P.Y.T." Never liked either.

"Beat It" is so overrated. I never intentionally listen to it.

Faves: "Billie Jean," "Human Nature" and "Wanna Be Starting Something" are my favorites.

"Thriller" is above average.

"Thriller" [...] The video is AMAZING but the song itself? Mediocre to my ears.

I agree. I love the video, the dance, the live performances, etc.. but the song alone, without a video is worthless to me.

I also don't like the album version of "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" ... live versions had great energy, the studio version doesn't.

smoothcriminal12 said:

mjscarousal said:

Of course they wouldnt.. History was a political album...

So is What's Going On...

Marvin Gaye isnt lashing out at the Media and calling people out. Marvin Gaye also wasnt a pop star that had his life under a microscope that was nit picked every waking second that affected peoples perception of his artistry

Well if you wanna put it in layman's terms, Michael and Marvin came from two very different generations. Marvin could afford some privacy but Michael never could.

mjscarousal said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

So is What's Going On...

Marvin Gaye isnt lashing out at the Media and calling people out. Marvin Gaye also wasnt a pop star that had his life under a microscope that was nit picked every waking second that affected peoples perception of his artistry

Marvin was challenging the war and singing about social issues. And I can see why some critics would think that HIStory is patchy, or not good at all. (not saying that I agree, but I can see why).

[Edited 2/29/12 19:39pm]

smoothcriminal12 said:

mjscarousal said:

Marvin Gaye isnt lashing out at the Media and calling people out. Marvin Gaye also wasnt a pop star that had his life under a microscope that was nit picked every waking second that affected peoples perception of his artistry

Marvin was challenging the war and singing about social issues. And I can see why some critics would think that HIStory is patchy, or not good at all. (not saying that I agree, but I can see why).

[Edited 2/29/12 19:39pm]

Well you brought up the comparision between MARVIN GAYE and Michael Jackson.

Michael also talked about similiar issues. There are alot of albums that critics dont rank high that are really good albums. Besides from OTW, Thriller and Bad generally Michaels albums get a mixture of reviews because of issues related to his personal life or for whatever bullshit reason.

And your right I can see why as well... the media/critics are pack of slime ass clueless haters who dont know shit about good pop music.

[Edited 2/29/12 20:36pm]

brooksie said:

Thriller was definitely unique in that it touched on several different genres in a way that nobody even thought of or had the guts to try. It was and still is very ballsy in this regard. It was kind of a one time thing tho, but in a very big way. Only MJ could have pulled it off methinks! Almost no other artist had that sort of juice even in the pre-Thriller days. In some ways, this LP represented a real risk because it tried to be everything to everybody. That they actually did it is a testimony to how well it was crafted and supported.

If you grew up w/ hip hop has the primary popular music, I can see why Thriller is so fresh because it had so many sounds at once. Hip hip, for all it's pros and cons, can be rather one note. Thriller is still infinitely danceable and had a lighter touch than stuff that primarily depends on basslines. That, IMHO, is a huge element of it's crossover appeal...it was a more balanced sound than most RnB of the time.

OtW is definitely a dance/disco album that was very disco heavy in it's look and approach. That's where Thriller was a real step forward. It was able to manage to be light and have deep grooves that the same time after having ditched the disco element. Again, it was a ballsy album in many ways.

Thanks for that, completely agree with you

SquirrelMeat said:

LiLi1992 said:

I do not know how long this thread will live. I'm tired of these double standards .... why the sticky topic just about MJ? There are artists, who are popular on this forum not less than Jackson, and have sometimes to 4-5 on the first page.

return to the Thriller .......

It`s the perfect pop album, one of the greatest ever, but not one of my favorite in the discography of MJ.
Beat it - a favorite song on the album.

Were you not here before the sticky?? At several points, a third of the front page was MJ related. Even with the sticky people can't help but start another thread.

This forum was so much better way back then.

mjscarousal said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Marvin was challenging the war and singing about social issues. And I can see why some critics would think that HIStory is patchy, or not good at all. (not saying that I agree, but I can see why).

[Edited 2/29/12 19:39pm]

Well you brought up the comparision between MARVIN GAYE and Michael Jackson.

Michael also talked about similiar issues. There are alot of albums that critics dont rank high that are really good albums. Besides from OTW, Thriller and Bad generally Michaels albums get a mixture of reviews because of issues related to his personal life or for whatever bullshit reason.

And your right I can see why as well... the media/critics are pack of slime ass clueless haters who dont know shit about good pop music.

[Edited 2/29/12 20:36pm]

Well, if you remember before the hype, even Thriller got mediocre reviews.

Thank you for a great discussion on Mike's music, it is refreshing to see a topic that stayed

focus on his music with no discussion about the controversy that surrounded his life.

I always thought Off The Wall was his best album because I love the disco/R&B vibe of the album. The only song I dislike on that album is She's Out Of My Life. I seems out of place for some reason.

Just my two cents.

LiLi1992 said:

novabrkr said:

It should be obvous to everyone that Purple Rain kicks Thriller in the nuts on all areas except commercial performance.

Seriously though, Michael has never gotten that great album reviews from the critics. The "A+" / "*****" reviews you can find for the album from sources like Wikipedia offer a limited view on its general reception.

But this is not true, Off the wall got 5 * from almost all the critics and is considered one of the most highly acclaimed albums ever.

Thriller .. I personally don.t see any list of greatest albums ever, wherever Thriller was not in the top 20 at least, even lists of Rolling Stones magazine, where MJ has always hated with a passion.

But reviews of music critics are not very important to me.
My favorite MJ album - Dangerous, but it never received supportive evaluations

[Edited 2/28/12 8:43am]

Most of those magazines didn't even exist when Thriller was released. The five star ratings the album has been given in retrospect do not reflect its initial reviews. If I remember correctly, Rolling Stone did not give the album five stars initially either. The reviews for his post-Thriller work were often very nasty in tone.

People started speaking more favourably about Michael as a recording artist again maybe about ten years ago. Some time around Invincible a lot of people put him in the same category as Britney Spears / N*Sync and so on (which of course was bullshit and I think Michael did a disfavour for himself by appearing with them onstage).

niki5017 said:

Thank you for a great discussion on Mike's music, it is refreshing to see a topic that stayed

focus on his music with no discussion about the controversy that surrounded his life.

I always thought Off The Wall was his best album because I love the disco/R&B vibe of the album. The only song I dislike on that album is She's Out Of My Life. I seems out of place for some reason.

Just my two cents.

Yes it did turn out to be a nice discussion-I'm surprised you know how the Org goes and thanks to the mods for letting it stay open.

novabrkr said:

Most of those magazines didn't even exist when Thriller was released. The five star ratings the album has been given in retrospect do not reflect its initial reviews. If I remember correctly, Rolling Stone did not give the album five stars initially either. The reviews for his post-Thriller work were often very nasty in tone.

People started speaking more favourably about Michael as a recording artist again maybe about ten years ago. Some time around Invincible a lot of people put him in the same category as Britney Spears / N*Sync and so on (which of course was bullshit and I think Michael did a disfavour for himself by appearing with them onstage).

Off the wall was very well received by music critics, they simply strewn MJ compliments. He immediately received a 5 * by Rolling Stones
Thriller was at first only 4 * and 5 * It was only later

But in any case, my favorite albums in MJ's discography:
1) Dangerous
.
2) HIStory
3) Bad
4) Thriller
5) Off the wall
.
.
.
.

99 .... Invincible (it's really worse than most albums of Britney Spears.)

brooksie said:

thesexofit said:

You could make a case that because of "thriller", pop albums would never quite be the same again.

The formula of

1) Start with an uptempo

2) Include a high profile duet

3) "rock" song

4) "rnb" song

5) "ballad" song

"thriller" inspired alot of other 80's pop records to do the same. Heck, its influence is still probably felt slightly today. Certainly the mix of tempo's and styles to net the widest demographic possible was a genius move, even if it was not deliberate. Indeed the fact the album does not feel half as calculated as it should is one of it's charms.I can't see much commitee thinking on this record, which sadly you couldn't say that today now that the industry has changed so much.....

Anyway, it definately changed the album game, for better or worse LOL. And I do think it probably made some black artists to try and go that route (including Jermaine Jackson and even Prince made a more commercial album with "purple rain", though it's hard to say if that was inspired by the sucsess of "thriller" but I bet Prince knew about it regardless), and of course, it paved the way for Whitney's early albums and no doubt inspired Lionals "cover all bases" approach with his excellent "can't slow down" album.

Nah, it was definitely delibrate. You didn't just go get the hottest rock guitarist at the time (ie Eddie Van Halen) or get a Beatle by acident, esp for what was essentially a then RnB artist's record. Prior to this, nobody would have thought of MJ and rock in the same sentence. Not back then you didn't, not back in an era was crossover collabs or success was still quite rare. All this was uber planned and it did just as it was intended!

Yes, it certainly made Black artists sit up and take note. For me the best example of this shift would be how Motown rapidly and radically tried to change DeBarge from a RnB ballad group to a quasi MJ-New Romantics pop group. Of course this rarely worked for already established groups/artists, but it gave them a template to try and follow. Few, quite frankly, knew how to reach a White mainstream audience and Thriller kinda sorta taught them how. Lionel Ritchie was an exception because he was also someone who wrote/produced for others and you could also add Shalamar to a degree, but most RnB acts could never get over their limited appeal to "mainstream" audeinces. If Thriller had any really negative affects, it was that it made crossover at all costs a goal for far too many RnB acts. This affected the quality of RnB and may have helped it's demise.

I'd have to agree with both points made by you guys. Thriller was definitely calculated, the only difference is the committee was Michael. Thriller became the template for a lot of acts at the time. Unfortunately, even Michael later fell prey to trying to duplicate its phenomenon. Its impact was kind of like a berth of desegregation in music (especially through video). Although the downfall for many acts was literally selling their soul (no illuminati though ) in attempts to achieve its profound success. Just as the black community benefited from desegregation, so did many other acts that later followed the "Thriller" blueprint.

Musicslave said:

brooksie said:

Nah, it was definitely delibrate. You didn't just go get the hottest rock guitarist at the time (ie Eddie Van Halen) or get a Beatle by acident, esp for what was essentially a then RnB artist's record. Prior to this, nobody would have thought of MJ and rock in the same sentence. Not back then you didn't, not back in an era was crossover collabs or success was still quite rare. All this was uber planned and it did just as it was intended!

Yes, it certainly made Black artists sit up and take note. For me the best example of this shift would be how Motown rapidly and radically tried to change DeBarge from a RnB ballad group to a quasi MJ-New Romantics pop group. Of course this rarely worked for already established groups/artists, but it gave them a template to try and follow. Few, quite frankly, knew how to reach a White mainstream audience and Thriller kinda sorta taught them how. Lionel Ritchie was an exception because he was also someone who wrote/produced for others and you could also add Shalamar to a degree, but most RnB acts could never get over their limited appeal to "mainstream" audeinces. If Thriller had any really negative affects, it was that it made crossover at all costs a goal for far too many RnB acts. This affected the quality of RnB and may have helped it's demise.

I'd have to agree with both points made by you guys. Thriller was definitely calculated, the only difference is the committee was Michael. Thriller became the template for a lot of acts at the time. Unfortunately, even Michael later fell prey to trying to duplicate its phenomenon. Its impact was kind of like a berth of desegregation in music (especially through video). Although the downfall for many acts was literally selling their soul (no illuminati though ) in attempts to achieve its profound success. Just as the black community benefited from desegregation, so did many other acts that later followed the "Thriller" blueprint.

I agree. "Thriller", I always said, was like a blessing and a curse for him.

Please use MJ sticky.

reported MJ