To be quite honest, I tend to define neo-soul as more jazz influenced, hence why I will not call Outkast a neo-soul group.

[Edited 2/26/12 7:39am]

smoothcriminal12 said:

To be quite honest, I tend to define neo-soul as more jazz influenced, hence why I will not call Outkast a neo-soul group.

[Edited 2/26/12 7:39am]

That's an interesting take on it. I hadn't noticed a strong jazz influence, but you could have a point in terms of what makes it different than classic RnB tho I never thought of RnB w/o a jazz influence.

silverchild said:

Hell no. What is neo-soul anyways? There's no such thing.

Boring pretentious shit like jill scott and eryka badu

[Edited 2/26/12 8:57am]

Dewrede said:

silverchild said:

Hell no. What is neo-soul anyways? There's no such thing.

Boring pretentious shit like Jill Scott and eryka badu

[Edited 2/26/12 8:54am]

brooksie said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

To be quite honest, I tend to define neo-soul as more jazz influenced, hence why I will not call Outkast a neo-soul group.

[Edited 2/26/12 7:39am]

That's an interesting take on it. I hadn't noticed a strong jazz influence, but you could have a point in terms of what makes it different than classic RnB tho I never thought of RnB w/o a jazz influence.

The influence of jazz in what we call "contemporary R&B" is damn near dead, and I think that might partially be the reason why neo-soul is considered, well, neo-soul. It has a much stronger jazz influence than the regular "R&B" of today does.

duccichucka said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Why do i see you bring race into every so much

Why can't music be music... without all that shit

Do you have any examples of me bringing race into all of my discussions on music

in discussions where race is not the topic? Because if I do bring race up, it's simply

because the topic is centered on race!

I am a little perturbed at the amount of insight that posters in this forum seem to

lack - where are all the thinkers at?

People are complaining about the term neo-soul; but neo-soul is a term coined by

a Black American, unlike other terms used to describe musical art forms created

by Black Americans. It was not a Black person who camed up with the terms "R&B,"

"Soul," "Rock n Roll," to describe these genres of Black American music.

So it was a marketing term. Fine. But words are not static; they are living abstracts that

change as society changes. Now the word soul music can be used to identify with any

type of music created by Black Americans. A lot also depends upon how you use the

word "soul music." (anybody here read Wittgenstein?)

If you ding dongs can't think outside the box with me on this one, that OutKast's brand

of hip hop was soulful and soul music, and that their music was grounded in an

aesthetic similar to those of the classic 70s soul artists; that Black American music is always

going to be "soul" music, including hip hop; and that OutKast's musical output was a

new interpretation of old hip hop soul music, and that you are to be so rigid about how you appropriate a term such as "neo-soul" to OutKast, knock yerself out.

And for those of you who claim "why can't music just be music?" I ask "why can't you

just be "dude" and not go by your given name?" Words are how we categorize and

communicate our reality - get over it. There is another reason why I believe in

using categories to describe Black American music but that's another diatribe on another

day.

OutKast is new soul music = OutKast is neo-soul

Mmmkkkay. So if Black people didn't originally call soul music by that name as you contend, why is "neo-soul" somehow different? How does this imply some sort of "empowerment" as you seem to be suggesting...taking back/branding whats "ours"? Talk about NOT thinking! Just because the REbranding was done by a Black person somehow makes it less a rebranding or even accurate? Even in that case, that would hardly include a rap/hip hop group like Outkast. If you want to think of them as neo-soul that's up to you, but save the dramatics.

Makes me wonder who called the blues the blues? Is Buddy Guy neo-soul or neo blues now too?!

Anyway, much was what was specifically meant by the term "rhythm and blues" has long been lost in the music labeled as such. This term referred to a more uptempo take on the classic country blues. It has a consistant rhythm that was far more danceable than its parent (ie the blues). In the strictest sense, RnB originally meant someone like Chuck Berry or Little Richard than Muddy Waters and the like. It had a very specific meaning which over time became something of an umbrella category.

You really need to lay off the name calling and stuff since you wanna "school" somebody. Just because people don't agree w/ you...which they have no obligation to, doesn't mean they have to tolerate a temper tantrum.

smoothcriminal12 said:

brooksie said:

That's an interesting take on it. I hadn't noticed a strong jazz influence, but you could have a point in terms of what makes it different than classic RnB tho I never thought of RnB w/o a jazz influence.

The influence of jazz in what we call "contemporary R&B" is damn near dead, and I think that might partially be the reason why neo-soul is considered, well, neo-soul. It has a much stronger jazz influence than the regular "R&B" of today does.

This certainly makes sense. I can defintely see it in terms of contemporary RnB where someone like Jill Scott reprents a different flava. Good explanation.

That said, where do you see Outkast in this picture? I still see rap/hip hop.

brooksie said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

The influence of jazz in what we call "contemporary R&B" is damn near dead, and I think that might partially be the reason why neo-soul is considered, well, neo-soul. It has a much stronger jazz influence than the regular "R&B" of today does.

This certainly makes sense. I can defintely see it in terms of contemporary RnB where someone like Jill Scott reprents a different flava. Good explanation.

That said, where do you see Outkast in this picture? I still see rap/hip hop.

I see them as hip-hop as well.

duccichucka said:

Graycap23 said:

Neo....NOT!

Why?

LOL - y'all are funny! You see OutKast and instantly think "hip hop" and see "neo-soul" and

immediately think D'Angelo, Lauryn Hill or a Raheem Devaughn or Jon B. (who all use elements

of hip hop in their production values, by the way) but have a problem associating a hip hop

based group with the word neo-soul? Why? I'll tell you why:

The only reason why you're saying "NOT" here is because you've been conditioned to think

two things:

1. Neo soul is not hip hop

2. OutKast is strictly hip hop

But both things are not absolutes. You guys are saying "OutKast can't be considered

neo-soul because they are a hip hop group." But none of you have been able to articulate

what hip hop is, what neo-soul is and why OutKast isn't able to be considered neo-soul.

Some of you are saying "Neo Soul doesn't even exist!" That is funny too....Is it possible

that OutKast, who started out as a hip hop duo, could have incorporated neo-soul aesthetics

and production values into their music as they progressed as musicians?

The answers is yes.

In fact, name a putative neo-soul artist who doesn't use hip hop production values!

Once again, I'm being met with goofy emoticons and gifs and no one has the

wherewithal for articulated discourse. Fine with me!

"NO! OUTKAST IS HIP HOP! NEO SOUL DOESNT EXIST! IT'S A MADE UP TERM!"

Noddin' my head like yeah.