MadamGoodnight said:

El got arrested at the concert for child support...dizzam! I used to think they were so squeaky clean when they first came out.

Yeppers. Apparently the cops agreed to let him perform and leave w/ them later. This was Bobby's memorial, after all! Since this was about 1996 or so, it was probably El Jr who was the kid in question.

Shoot in the De Barge heydays, we didn't even know El had a kid (Adris) who was like 10 years old!!! I also didn't know that Bunny had a 15 year old during the "In a Special Way" days either.

Motown kept lots underwarps about them.

[Edited 3/13/12 23:19pm]

brooksie said:

MadamGoodnight said:

El got arrested at the concert for child support...dizzam! I used to think they were so squeaky clean when they first came out.

Yeppers. Apparently the cops agreed to let him perform and leave w/ them later. This was Bobby's memorial, after all! Since this was about 1996 or so, it was probably El Jr who was the kid in question.

Shoot in the De Barge heydays, we didn't even know El had a kid (Adris) who was like 10 year old!!! Motown kept lots underwarps about them.

I sure didn't know that. Things were so different back then. The DeBarges would've been all over the 'net, and blogs. They're lucky they came about at a different time. Motown wouldn't have been able to keep all their dirt hidden.

brooksie said:

TD3 said:

I've just recieved my copy of Tommy's book also; when I have some quite time I'll tell what I thought. Yes, Motown was color struck isn't it ironic those who aren't necassarily of light hue are the worst in-terms of self hatred. Amazing.

Oh good...I can't wait for your thoughts/reviews too. I honestly want to discuss this book cuz it's so deep. It's amazing they're doing as well as they are IMHO.

I'll get to reading his book this weekend... when everyone is out of my house.

A lot of stuff that happened to the DeBarges happeded behind family closed doors. With the exception of Bobby sexuality, their drug use, El child support, and beating up a woman. I'm not we would know anymore if the DeBarges didn't tell it. In the end does it really matter? Public persona vs. private lives, the latter usually isn't that rosey in the first place. At this point lil' shocks me. I skimmed the book, I can't say I've been shocked by anything I've read.

MadamGoodnight said:

brooksie said:

Yeppers. Apparently the cops agreed to let him perform and leave w/ them later. This was Bobby's memorial, after all! Since this was about 1996 or so, it was probably El Jr who was the kid in question.

Shoot in the De Barge heydays, we didn't even know El had a kid (Adris) who was like 10 year old!!! Motown kept lots underwarps about them.

I sure didn't know that. Things were so different back then. The DeBarges would've been all over the 'net, and blogs. They're lucky they came about at a different time. Motown wouldn't have been able to keep all their dirt hidden.

I'm not so sure this is true because these days celebs have their own massive PR machines and we still (usually) get a sanitized version of them even w/ all this 'net stuff. The De Barges put most of the info about themselves out there themselves, but I don't think it's changed all that much for celebs who wish to be more image concious.

I think the net gives people the impression that they know more about about X famous person than they would have in the past, but don't think it's really true. IOW, we still have the "Motown machine" covering up for them...only far broader and more powerful. The public image is probably even more protected now than it ever was in the past.

[Edited 3/14/12 13:41pm]

I love the Debarge family-they will always have my sympathy, but they really should be the poster family for dysfuctionality.

Does anyone know much about Smash? Tommy didn't mention this group that I can recall, so what's the 411?

I like the De Barge sound its so distinctive....

brooksie said:

Does anyone know much about Smash? Tommy didn't mention this group that I can recall, so what's the 411?

I'm guessing you gotta wait until El, Randy or Marty write the next DeBarge bio...

wow

they outdo the Womacks damn!!!

I almost forgot, this book has no pics at all. Odd oversight given that Tommy's probably the most obscure of the performing De Barges. I'll post some so you have an idea of who I'm talking about in my tidbits.

Tommy and Phillip Ingram of Switch

Tommy, Duckie, and son Lil Tommy

Tommy

More later...

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

Does anyone know much about Smash? Tommy didn't mention this group that I can recall, so what's the 411?

I'm guessing you gotta wait until El, Randy or Marty write the next DeBarge bio...

Oh Lord, please let it be MARTY! I've always had a soft spot for him and I'm mad that Tommy tormented my Marty!

Apparently the Smash LP was put out in 1979 and has been released in Germany or something on CD. There's a few vids on YouTube, so I'll put some more up later. One of the members of this group is an Abney cusin, but I don't know which.

BTW Timmy...I was wrong. Tommy doesn't have 7 kids...he has 9! With the De Barges the mistakes always seem to be too few kids rather than too many!

[Edited 3/14/12 20:44pm]

HuMpThAnG said:

wow

they outdo the Womacks damn!!!

Truth on so many levels and that's sayin' something considering how nutty the Womacks are. Those cats raised incest to a fine art!

Well at least none of the De Barges have been murdered, unlike poor Harry Womack.

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

I'm guessing you gotta wait until El, Randy or Marty write the next DeBarge bio...

Oh Lord, please let it be MARTY! I've always had a soft spot for him and I'm mad that Tommy tormented my Marty!

Apparently the Smash LP was put out in 1979 and has been released in Germany or something on CD. There's a few vids on YouTube, so I'll put some more up later. One of the members of this group is an Abney cusin, but I don't know which.

BTW Timmy...I was wrong. Tommy doesn't have 7 kids...he has 9! With the De Barges the mistakes always seem to be too few kids rather than too many!

[Edited 3/14/12 20:44pm]

lol nine kids. Damn the DeBarges knew how to plant seeds, huh?

brooksie said:

HuMpThAnG said:

wow

they outdo the Womacks damn!!!

Truth on so many levels and that's sayin' something considering how nutty the Womacks are. Those cats raised incest to a fine art!

Well at least none of the De Barges have been murdered, unlike poor Harry Womack.

Yeah that was real sad.

I don't know, for some reason, looking at Harry as he aged, he looked like Marvin or Eddie Kendricks with that beard and the hair line.

Hey Timmy, remember when I was surprised that El got down like that on wax? Well, I've been finding all kinds of stuff and I think we know why he and his brothers got all these damn kids! I must explore their music even deeper, methinks!

Check this one out (El from 4:30)

brooksie said:

Hey Timmy, remember when I was surprised that El got down like that on wax? Well, I've been finding all kinds of stuff and I think we know why he and his brothers got all these damn kids! I must explore their music even deeper, methinks!

Check this one out (El from 4:30)

El's BEEN a PLAYA. The DeBarge men seemed to be real charming to get the pussy.

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

Does anyone know much about Smash? Tommy didn't mention this group that I can recall, so what's the 411?

I'm guessing you gotta wait until El, Randy or Marty write the next DeBarge bio...

Smash can be purchased at CDBaby - http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/smash2

iTunes use to sale this album too, but I'm not sure they still do.

This group was pre-Switch/DeBarge but my understanding this album features the principle players of Switch. Yeah, El, Marty, and Rand were present but they were on deep background sort of speak. Smash changed their name to Switch.

just checked, Smash can still be bought via iTunes too.

========================

[Edited 3/15/12 15:18pm]

TD3 said:

Smash can be purchased at CDBaby - http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/smash2

iTunes use to sale this album too, but I'm not sure they still do.

This group was pre-Switch/DeBarge but my understanding this album features the principle players of Switch. Yeah, El, Marty, and Rand were present but they were on deep background sort of speak. Smash changed their name to Switch.

just checked, Smash can still be bought via iTunes too.

========================

[Edited 3/15/12 15:18pm]

Thanks I think I'm gonna get this. I like what I've heard so far. Switch was also known as First Class for a minute too. I think that was after White Heat but before Switch proper.

Those DeBarges really do have a unique sound that carried over thru all their groups. It's really lovely.

Speaking of, I've been listening to some of Bobby's "It's Not Over" LP and I'm surprised just how vibrant is voice still was when he was so sick. Nah...he hadn't lost it one bit, contrary to rumors!

These Debarges break my heart. Just one big familial hot mess. They had so much potential and it all went down the fuckin' toilet. I blame those parents.

brooksie said:

MadamGoodnight said:

Great rundown! @ Tommy torturing Marty and Bobby abusing James!

So many of them have been on drugs, dang! Tommy was a bad ass musician. Too bad the drugs-sex consumed him. @ them being too high to play after the first LP! Wow!

Jermaine and Hazel managed both Slick Rick and Switch, I didn't know that either! Big time conflict of interest.

The Switch thing was surprising given how soon Switch 1 was followed by Switch 2. It was around 1 year or so between these LPs. That's mighty fast for him (and other members I gathered...he didn't say outside of Bobby) to get so junked up to be unable to play. At that time, he was really into PCP, so that might explain it.

The Marty thing was a real eye opener. He says he didn't go to the lengths that Bobby went w/ James, but frankly I'm a bit doubtful. It was known that Bobby physically/sexually abused James, but he also physically/sexually abused Tommy too. From what Tommy said, James didn't exaggerate when he said Bobby frequently tried to kill him. Bobby comes off as a real Tin Hilter here.....PapaD Part 2. Tyrant, bully, sexual deviant, control freak, etc....

The sad thing here is that the neighbors and church folks HAD to have known some of this was going on, but it seems like nobody really tried to help these folks.

I'll say this book goes much further than the others, but Tommy's leaving out some of the REALLY bad stuff. That's saying alot given what he DID say.

Downright disgusting!!!! How on earth does one recover from such terror especially when its from your own family.

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

Hey Timmy, remember when I was surprised that El got down like that on wax? Well, I've been finding all kinds of stuff and I think we know why he and his brothers got all these damn kids! I must explore their music even deeper, methinks!

El's BEEN a PLAYA. The DeBarge men seemed to be real charming to get the pussy.

I'd suspected as much, but I didn't expect he had that much pimp juice! Dayum and you know he told nothing but the truth! Speaking of, how did El get hooked up w/ DJ Quik? They seem a somewhat odd pairing on the surface, but I'm liking what they've done together. It's odd how New Jack didn't work so well for El, yet this rap thing seems up his alley. Here's one of my fav clips...El is straight pimped out...mac hair and all dat, and dare I say, "I Like It"

Bobby did a little work w/ a rapper too, just FYI

El and Quik being homeboys really ain't that odd... to me at least. I love their collabo on, I believe, "Hand in Hand" was the name of the record.

HotGritz said:

brooksie said:

The Switch thing was surprising given how soon Switch 1 was followed by Switch 2. It was around 1 year or so between these LPs. That's mighty fast for him (and other members I gathered...he didn't say outside of Bobby) to get so junked up to be unable to play. At that time, he was really into PCP, so that might explain it.

The Marty thing was a real eye opener. He says he didn't go to the lengths that Bobby went w/ James, but frankly I'm a bit doubtful. It was known that Bobby physically/sexually abused James, but he also physically/sexually abused Tommy too. From what Tommy said, James didn't exaggerate when he said Bobby frequently tried to kill him. Bobby comes off as a real Tin Hilter here.....PapaD Part 2. Tyrant, bully, sexual deviant, control freak, etc....

The sad thing here is that the neighbors and church folks HAD to have known some of this was going on, but it seems like nobody really tried to help these folks.

I'll say this book goes much further than the others, but Tommy's leaving out some of the REALLY bad stuff. That's saying alot given what he DID say.

Downright disgusting!!!! How on earth does one recover from such terror especially when its from your own family.

Tommy seems far more hotly angry w/ MamaD than the old man, but I expect that's because the old man is dead and harmless at this point. I think he wrote this book because he thought it might help him heal and help his kids/grandkids understand why it all turned out that way. Sadly I don't think this will be the outcome because the family's biggest problem is the family itself. If anything, this book will further complicate family relations, IMHO.

The problem is that they seem to be allergic to and bring out the worst in each other as a family yet they are so co-dependent. Nobody seems to have the guts to make a clean break from the whole messy clan where MamaD is the main problem, so I think this dysfunctional cycle will continue w/ those who are unwilling to make a clean break.

Maybe separation is what the entire family needs...

Separate from Mama D, separate from each other (but not the kids because they still depend on them) and focus on rebuilding their lives without being co-dependent on a family member...

Dependency has always been their downfall.

brooksie said:

HotGritz said:

Downright disgusting!!!! How on earth does one recover from such terror especially when its from your own family.

Tommy seems far more hotly angry w/ MamaD than the old man, but I expect that's because the old man is dead and harmless at this point. I think he wrote this book because he thought it might help him heal and help his kids/grandkids understand why it all turned out that way. Sadly I don't think this will be the outcome because the family's biggest problem is the family itself. If anything, this book will further complicate family relations, IMHO.

The problem is that they seem to be allergic to and bring out the worst in each other as a family yet they are so co-dependent. Nobody seems to have the guts to make a clean break from the whole messy clan where MamaD is the main problem, so I think this dysfunctional cycle will continue w/ those who are unwilling to make a clean break.

Emotionally allergic yet psychologically dependent. Damn brooksie you hit the nail on the head. This is the worst kind of addiction. I hate to say it but I think the Debarges are somewhat hopeless. Too much has transpired and the trauma is so deep rooted. The only good thing is that the grandkids are not a part of this mess, as far as we know. the cycle ends with them.

Timmy84 said:

Maybe separation is what the entire family needs...

Separate from Mama D, separate from each other (but not the kids because they still depend on them) and focus on rebuilding their lives without being co-dependent on a family member...

Dependency has always been their downfall.

Yup and MamaD seems to have some sort of hold over them that's rather amazing. There'd been rumors around about her getting their money from them by means rather foul, but I never expected that she'd REALLY rob her kids. If what Tommy said about this is true, I think we have a good idea of where some royalty moneies ended up. Not all of it ended up w/ the dopeman, methinks.

If all this is true, why is she not in jail? Why dos she keep getting custody of various grandkids? These guys are still so tied up w/ her and she's a main source of their problems. You gotta father that beat and sexually abused you and a mama that rips you off and interferes in your family biz.

As for the family working together again...I say naw. They were bad influences on each other back in the day and still are. As much as I like the idea of Chico and El working together....that's a receipe for disaster on so many fronts.

HotGritz said:

Emotionally allergic yet psychologically dependent. Damn brooksie you hit the nail on the head. This is the worst kind of addiction. I hate to say it but I think the Debarges are somewhat hopeless. Too much has transpired and the trauma is so deep rooted. The only good thing is that the grandkids are not a part of this mess, as far as we know. the cycle ends with them.

HotGritz...I really wish I could disagree w/ you, but I sadly cannot. In some ways, things have gotten far worse for the De Barges since Unsung than before it.

The 3rd gen of De Barges are definitely very affected by this. Consider just poor Kristinia, right now James is sitting up in the pokey facing a long sentence on dope and weapons charges. 350K bail! Yet how many of them are seeking out careers in the music/ent biz knowing fully well the pitfalls? Why aren't these younguns going for an education, into business, etc...anything BUT what helped screw up their parents good and proper? Even the "sainted" Tracey Ferguson (El's 2nd wife) had her kids out there on reality shows and the like after seeing what happened to El 1st hand. smdh

Add to this Etterlene's and even Bunny's input for a sec. Both women clearly have a big hold over the De Barge men and it seems a negative influence. I doubt there's a De Barge wife or baby mama that doesn't have to fight serious static from her and/or Bunny. It seems her sons also go crying to Mama about their women when they are pissed at them, which adds fuel to the fire. Etterlene has ended up raising several of the grandkids as a result of all the family drama, so things don't really look good for the 3rd gen either.

I don't even want to speculate about whatever physical and sexual abuse some of these kids have faced, but given what we know it's almost certain that some have. The parental drug addictions alone put some of these kids in serious danger (Tommy taking his kid(s) to crackhouses...El's got a kid in the system now, etc..) Dope, in many ways, is the very least of the problem here, but how do you rehab someone away from all the mess that's NOT drug related?

nursev said:

I love the Debarge family-they will always have my sympathy, but they really should be the poster family for dysfuctionality.

Hmmm, I dunno about that. I hafta say this family gives them a run for their money

NaughtyKitty said:

nursev said:

I love the Debarge family-they will always have my sympathy, but they really should be the poster family for dysfuctionality.

Hmmm, I dunno about that. I hafta say this family gives them a run for their money

Naw...the Jackos have their own level of batshitness, but they got nothing on the De Barges or even the Womacks, IMHO. The De Barges are a very incestuous family and that's their main problem....way ahead of dope.. at least from what I can see.

Joe was a mean mofo and Katherine an enabler, but generally speaking they seemed far more of an average family of that era than the De Barges. They lacked the interracial drama in their homes/lives which made the DeBarge sitch far more complicated. JMHO, but if Joe had acted as PapaD allegedly did, so blantaly and so extremely, he'd been in jail or pushing up daisies decades ago. PapaD's white card saved him some serious aggro.

In comparison to the other fathers of famous families, if you asked me to pick between Robert DeBarge, Sr. and Joseph Jackson in who'd I probably be alright hanging out with, I'd pick Papa Joe's crusty ass...