KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Shouldn't Mama D be dickmatized by her own husband???

That's about the most pathetic lowdown thing I think I've every read from you are anyone else on this board. PATHETIC.

Like Etterlene should've been happy about it or something. That girl was screwed up by this idiot...

I've just recieved my copy of Tommy's book also; when I have some quite time I'll tell what I thought. Yes, Motown was color struck isn't it ironic those who aren't necassarily of light hue are the worst in-terms of self hatred. Amazing.

TD3 said:

I've just recieved my copy of Tommy's book also; when I have some quite time I'll tell what I thought. Yes, Motown was color struck isn't it ironic those who aren't necassarily of light hue are the worst in-terms of self hatred. Amazing.

Sometimes we (meaning black folks) can be our worst enemy especially with matters like complexion.

Timmy84 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I thought The Jacksons & The Houstons were dysfunctional. The De Barge family had major issues...

I actually think all families were equally dysfunctional. All of them had abuse issues (drugs, sex, etc.), all had religious issues (Jacksons - Jehovah's Witnesses; DeBarges - Pentecostals; Houstons - Baptists), all ridiculously multi-talented musicians, their fathers and mothers had strange reputations. And there were star pupils in each (Jacksons had Michael, Jermaine and Janet; Houstons/Drinkards had Emily/Cissy, Dionne, Dee, Whitney; DeBarges had Bobby, El and Chico). And the daddies were referred to as "papas" or "daddies". John Houston and Joe Jackson had management teams.

All true, but it was far worse for the DeBarges because of the race issues and the very prevelent incest. PapaD wasn't just mean, he was a sociopath in the most literal sense. Tommy describes tons of incest, but interestingly doesn't dwell too much on the racial issues. He mostly says they weren't accepted by the community and were rather barely tolerated by their Abney kin. The De Barge side was a big blank until many years later. Some of the brown and white De Barges know each other and have relations of some sort.

In many ways, poor Etterlene had far fewer choices than say Katherine Jackson and her sitch was far more extreme from what we know of each family.

TD3 said:

I've just recieved my copy of Tommy's book also; when I have some quite time I'll tell what I thought. Yes, Motown was color struck isn't it ironic those who aren't necassarily of light hue are the worst in-terms of self hatred. Amazing.

Oh good...I can't wait for your thoughts/reviews too. I honestly want to discuss this book cuz it's so deep. It's amazing they're doing as well as they are IMHO.

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

I actually think all families were equally dysfunctional. All of them had abuse issues (drugs, sex, etc.), all had religious issues (Jacksons - Jehovah's Witnesses; DeBarges - Pentecostals; Houstons - Baptists), all ridiculously multi-talented musicians, their fathers and mothers had strange reputations. And there were star pupils in each (Jacksons had Michael, Jermaine and Janet; Houstons/Drinkards had Emily/Cissy, Dionne, Dee, Whitney; DeBarges had Bobby, El and Chico). And the daddies were referred to as "papas" or "daddies". John Houston and Joe Jackson had management teams.

All true, but it was far worse for the DeBarges because of the race issues and the very prevelent incest. PapaD wasn't just mean, he was a sociopath in the most literal sense. Tommy describes tons of incest, but interestingly doesn't dwell too much on the racial issues. He mostly says they weren't accepted by the community and were rather barely tolerated by their Abney kin. The De Barge side was a big blank until many years later. Some of the brown and white De Barges know each other and have relations of some sort.

In many ways, poor Etterlene had far fewer choices than say Katherine Jackson and her sitch was far more extreme from what we know of each family.

The Jacksons had to deal with a megalomanical father in Joe Jackson. Robert DeBarge was just a crazy summabitch. Plus, yeah, the DeBarges were probably called all kinds of "yella" or whatever by their black classmates. Add to that they (meaning the classmates) probably thought Robert DeBarge was crazy too so they taunted them for it. I think they were more closer to the Abney side but I could believe their relatives were also suspicious of them. Probably taunts like "look at these lite-brite n***as..."

It's also odd that none of the children Robert and Etterlene had look like either of them...

[Edited 3/13/12 15:11pm]

Timmy84 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I thought The Jacksons & The Houstons were dysfunctional. The De Barge family had major issues...

I actually think all families were equally dysfunctional. All of them had abuse issues (drugs, sex, etc.), all had religious issues (Jacksons - Jehovah's Witnesses; DeBarges - Pentecostals; Houstons - Baptists), all ridiculously multi-talented musicians, their fathers and mothers had strange reputations. And there were star pupils in each (Jacksons had Michael, Jermaine and Janet; Houstons/Drinkards had Emily/Cissy, Dionne, Dee, Whitney; DeBarges had Bobby, El and Chico). And the daddies were referred to as "papas" or "daddies". John Houston and Joe Jackson had management teams.

Very true!! But the dads in the Houston & Jackson families weren't molesting their sons as far as I know. That is beyond sick....The De Barge family still abuse drugs to this day...

re people still thinking Debarge are Latino-the names Chico and El didn't help any with that and the name "Debarge" also threw people off. It is so obviously French.

For the millioneth time, when my Uncle Teddy was recovering from a Wild Turkey induced bender while watching Motown 25, he saw Debarge and said, " I didn't know Motown was hiring Puerto Ricans" and passed back out.

TD3 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Shouldn't Mama D be dickmatized by her own husband???

That's about the most pathetic lowdown thing I think I've every read from you are anyone else on this board. PATHETIC.

How is that pathetic? That was her husband! She had to at one point enjoyed having sex with him. I'm not condoning what he did to her & their children. I'm just saying she feel in love & married the man. What he became was an entirely different situation. I hate when people make me out to be hateful..That was not the point of my remark.

scriptgirl said:

re people still thinking Debarge are Latino-the names Chico and El didn't help any with that and the name "Debarge" also threw people off. It is so obviously French.

For the millioneth time, when my Uncle Teddy was recovering from a Wild Turkey induced bender while watching Motown 25, he saw Debarge and said, " I didn't know Motown was hiring Puerto Ricans" and passed back out.

But yeah the name "DeBarge" is definitely French. Eldra/El actually has a French tone to it... oddly almost everyone else in the family had usual names:

Robert Louis, Jr.

Etterlene (or Bunny)

Thomas Keith

William Randall (Randy)

Mark (Marty)

ELDRA (El; now that name is not normal... I guess Robert or Etterlene thought "something's special about this boy...")

James Curtis

Jonathan Arthur (I think his stepfather called him "Chico" and it stuck)

Darell

Carol ("Peaches")

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

All true, but it was far worse for the DeBarges because of the race issues and the very prevelent incest. PapaD wasn't just mean, he was a sociopath in the most literal sense. Tommy describes tons of incest, but interestingly doesn't dwell too much on the racial issues. He mostly says they weren't accepted by the community and were rather barely tolerated by their Abney kin. The De Barge side was a big blank until many years later. Some of the brown and white De Barges know each other and have relations of some sort.

In many ways, poor Etterlene had far fewer choices than say Katherine Jackson and her sitch was far more extreme from what we know of each family.

The Jacksons had to deal with a megalomanical father in Joe Jackson. Robert DeBarge was just a crazy summabitch. Plus, yeah, the DeBarges were probably called all kinds of "yella" or whatever by their black classmates. Add to that they (meaning the classmates) probably thought Robert DeBarge was crazy too so they taunted them for it. I think they were more closer to the Abney side but I could believe their relatives were also suspicious of them. Probably taunts like "look at these lite-brite n***as..."

It's also odd that none of the children Robert and Etterlene had look like either of them...

[Edited 3/13/12 15:11pm]

Ya know, Robert D seems to have been completely absent in terms of their musical ambitions (tho he bought them some instruments)...that's another thing that sets him apart from these crazy showbiz dads (add Papa Sylvers to the list too). I've always found it odd that the De Barges were driven mostly by their older brother Bobby w/ almost no known input from either parent in forming their careers.

Yes Tommy said the Abney relations looked down on them because they were poor and called them rather unpleasant things concerning their racial makeup. PapaD was quite active in the churches they attended, BTW. So the church people knew him too.

Crazily enough, the infamous beatdown of DaddyD took place while they were getting ready for church. Talk about irony!

One thing Tommy clears up is the whole Detriot-Grand Rapids move.....PapaD went with them. Yuppers....Etterlene made it seem as if he stayed behind in Detriot. Nope...but he eventually left her and returned back there alone.

scriptgirl said:

re people still thinking Debarge are Latino-the names Chico and El didn't help any with that and the name "Debarge" also threw people off. It is so obviously French.

For the millioneth time, when my Uncle Teddy was recovering from a Wild Turkey induced bender while watching Motown 25, he saw Debarge and said, " I didn't know Motown was hiring Puerto Ricans" and passed back out.

I never get tired of hearing this story about Uncle Teddy. God rest his soul.

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

The Jacksons had to deal with a megalomanical father in Joe Jackson. Robert DeBarge was just a crazy summabitch. Plus, yeah, the DeBarges were probably called all kinds of "yella" or whatever by their black classmates. Add to that they (meaning the classmates) probably thought Robert DeBarge was crazy too so they taunted them for it. I think they were more closer to the Abney side but I could believe their relatives were also suspicious of them. Probably taunts like "look at these lite-brite n***as..."

It's also odd that none of the children Robert and Etterlene had look like either of them...

[Edited 3/13/12 15:11pm]

Ya know, Robert D seems to have been completely absent in terms of their musical ambitions (tho he bought them some instruments)...that's another thing that sets him apart from these crazy showbiz dads (add Papa Sylvers to the list too). I've always found it odd that the De Barges were driven mostly by their older brother Bobby w/ almost no known input from either parent in forming their careers.

Yes Tommy said the Abney relations looked down on them because they were poor and called them rather unpleasant things concerning their racial makeup. PapaD was quite active in the churches they attended, BTW. So the church people knew him too.

Crazily enough, the infamous beatdown of DaddyD took place while they were getting ready for church. Talk about irony!

One thing Tommy clears up is the whole Detriot-Grand Rapids move.....PapaD went with them. Yuppers....Etterlene made it seem as if he stayed behind in Detriot. Nope...but he eventually left her and returned back there alone.

Right. He was one of those against them going into the music business. In fact he even said he couldn't said "why Etterlene let them go into show business" for. (Leon Sylvers II was as much a taskmasker of his children as Mattie Moss Clark, Joe Jackson, Charles Cook, Sr., O'Kelly Isley, Sr., Murry Wilson and Friendly Womack, Sr. were with their children) Yeah I figured the Abneys looked down at them for their light makeup and for being poorer than they were. They probably got picked on for the size of the family too. But yeah Bobby DeBarge (Robert, Jr.) was the reason all the DeBarges eventually went into music so the legacy of the DeBarges started with him. I'm not surprised Robert, Sr. was active with his wife in church. Didn't Etterlene divorce Robert, Sr. in 1974? I think they moved to Grand Rapids in the late 1960s, am I wrong?

[Edited 3/13/12 15:29pm]

How did Tommy confirm his parents were sexually obsessed with each other?

Bless you Ms Trina, for what you said about Uncle Teddy. He was um, special.

[Edited 3/13/12 15:31pm]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

TD3 said:

That's about the most pathetic lowdown thing I think I've every read from you are anyone else on this board. PATHETIC.

How is that pathetic? That was her husband! She had to at one point enjoyed having sex with him. I'm not condoning what he did to her & their children. I'm just saying she feel in love & married the man. What he became was an entirely different situation. I hate when people make me out to be hateful..That was not the point of my remark.

FWIW, I knew what you were saying. After all, several women who weren't his wife were also sprung on him too! When discussing Etterlene, people usually overlook the obvious motive.....an extreme sexual attraction between them. It's kind of awful and stomach turning to think that a woman can get sprung enough to not protect her kids, but it happens.

Clearly PapaD had a fetish for Black women and acted on it widely. Given that he had 14 known and acknowledged children (and Lord knows how many others), Etterlene was hardly alone.

However, look at his man's sons....El clearly has these sorts of magical powers of penis, but I hope none of his women gets caught up like his mother did. Unfortunately men of this sort have a knack for finding women who get caught up to some degree.

brooksie said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

How is that pathetic? That was her husband! She had to at one point enjoyed having sex with him. I'm not condoning what he did to her & their children. I'm just saying she feel in love & married the man. What he became was an entirely different situation. I hate when people make me out to be hateful..That was not the point of my remark.

FWIW, I knew what you were saying. After all, several women who weren't his wife were also sprung on him too! When discussing Etterlene, people usually overlook the obvious motive.....an extreme sexual attraction between them. It's kind of awful and stomach turning to think that a woman can get sprung enough to not protect her kids, but it happens.

Clearly PapaD had a fetish for Black women and acted on it widely. Given that he had 14 known and acknowledged children (and Lord knows how many others), Etterlene was hardly alone.

However, look at his man's sons....El clearly has these sorts of magical powers of penis, but I hope none of his women gets caught up like his mother did. Unfortunately men of this sort have a knack for finding women who get caught up to some degree.

All the DeBarge men seem to share in sexual prowess it seems.

Bobby, Tommy, Randy, Mark and Chico each have five children. El had up to 11-15. Only James seems to have the less children of the DeBarges we know about. I wonder if Darell has children. I know Bunny has at least 4, 5. Who knows if Carol has children. Darell and Carol I think are 41 now.

scriptgirl said:

How did Tommy confirm his parents were sexually obsessed with each other?

He stated flat out that everything w/ them was physical (to his eyes) w/ little emotional attachment between them. He connected the fighting and the fucking (tho he didn't use that word...he uses formal language in the book) in terms of how they related. He clearly could overhear things in their bedroom too....arguments and other stuff I'm sure.

The title of chapter 2 is "Daddy or Mama's Fault" That chapter alone is like

brooksie said: I wonder if they managed De Barge too?

Suzee Ikeda

Tony Jones (De Passe / Jones Entertainment)

Shango said:

brooksie said: I wonder if they managed De Barge too?

Suzee Ikeda

Tony Jones (De Passe / Jones Entertainment)

Thanks. So these two were DeBarge's managers... I'm glad Jermaine and Hazel didn't manage them either because that would've been a REAL mess.

welcome yeah, although i couldn't yet find out who were managing them for their first 2 albums.

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

FWIW, I knew what you were saying. After all, several women who weren't his wife were also sprung on him too! When discussing Etterlene, people usually overlook the obvious motive.....an extreme sexual attraction between them. It's kind of awful and stomach turning to think that a woman can get sprung enough to not protect her kids, but it happens.

Clearly PapaD had a fetish for Black women and acted on it widely. Given that he had 14 known and acknowledged children (and Lord knows how many others), Etterlene was hardly alone.

However, look at his man's sons....El clearly has these sorts of magical powers of penis, but I hope none of his women gets caught up like his mother did. Unfortunately men of this sort have a knack for finding women who get caught up to some degree.

All the DeBarge men seem to share in sexual prowess it seems.

Bobby, Tommy, Randy, Mark and Chico each have five children. El had up to 11-15. Only James seems to have the less children of the DeBarges we know about. I wonder if Darell has children. I know Bunny has at least 4, 5. Who knows if Carol has children. Darell and Carol I think are 41 now.

I don't know the precise breakdown but it says he had 65 grandchildren in 2009. Notice the birth order of his kids....the outside ones are mixed in w/ Bunny and 'em.

I know Carol has at least 2 and Darell has at least 1...Bunny has 4, Tommy has a least 7 (4=Ducky 2=April 1=outside chick)...not sure how many James has, but he has some young ones too. Chico has about 6, as does Marty.

El...well I suspect slightly fewer kids than China has people, but only slightly fewer!

brooksie said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

How is that pathetic? That was her husband! She had to at one point enjoyed having sex with him. I'm not condoning what he did to her & their children. I'm just saying she feel in love & married the man. What he became was an entirely different situation. I hate when people make me out to be hateful..That was not the point of my remark.

FWIW, I knew what you were saying. After all, several women who weren't his wife were also sprung on him too! When discussing Etterlene, people usually overlook the obvious motive.....an extreme sexual attraction between them. It's kind of awful and stomach turning to think that a woman can get sprung enough to not protect her kids, but it happens.

Clearly PapaD had a fetish for Black women and acted on it widely. Given that he had 14 known and acknowledged children (and Lord knows how many others), Etterlene was hardly alone.

However, look at his man's sons....El clearly has these sorts of magical powers of penis, but I hope none of his women gets caught up like his mother did. Unfortunately men of this sort have a knack for finding women who get caught up to some degree.

U make a solid point....Janet was also sprung(dickmatized) on James to the point of getting in her mercedes to pick up James late at night on a drug binge in south central LA.....

Timmy84 said:

Shango said:

Suzee Ikeda

Tony Jones (De Passe / Jones Entertainment)

Thanks. So these two were DeBarge's managers... I'm glad Jermaine and Hazel didn't manage them either because that would've been a REAL mess.

Still a hot mess to me seeing how Tony Jones is dePasse's cousin. Gotta love Motown and their keepin' it in the family!

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

Thanks. So these two were DeBarge's managers... I'm glad Jermaine and Hazel didn't manage them either because that would've been a REAL mess.

Still a hot mess to me seeing how Tony Jones is dePasse's cousin. Gotta love Motown and their keepin' it in the family!

Motown always had family ties... that's one of the strangest things about this label. No wonder some keep calling it a "family"...

brooksie said:

Timmy84 said:

All the DeBarge men seem to share in sexual prowess it seems.

Bobby, Tommy, Randy, Mark and Chico each have five children. El had up to 11-15. Only James seems to have the less children of the DeBarges we know about. I wonder if Darell has children. I know Bunny has at least 4, 5. Who knows if Carol has children. Darell and Carol I think are 41 now.

I don't know the precise breakdown but it says he had 65 grandchildren in 2009. Notice the birth order of his kids....the outside ones are mixed in w/ Bunny and 'em.

I know Carol has at least 2 and Darell has at least 1...Bunny has 4, Tommy has a least 7 (4=Ducky 2=April 1=outside chick)...not sure how many James has, but he has some young ones too. Chico has about 6, as does Marty.

El...well I suspect slightly fewer kids than China has people, but only slightly fewer!

Wow, Robert DeBarge, Sr. had a beard at the time of his death. He definitely looked like Father Time! Guessing Deathra, Chantel and Alice were his out of wedlock children though it mentioned he had a wife named Barbara DeBarge. Wonder if Barbara was a Sister... and it's also interesting that Robert DeBarge, Sr. was a minister. Am I reading right?! I see Bunny and Mama D failed to mentioned that. Also did Tommy say what religion they were before they joined their uncle's church in Grand Rapids? Seems DeBarge was either just Christian or Pentecostal like the rest of them were? Wow, 65 grandchildren lol

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

brooksie said:

FWIW, I knew what you were saying. After all, several women who weren't his wife were also sprung on him too! When discussing Etterlene, people usually overlook the obvious motive.....an extreme sexual attraction between them. It's kind of awful and stomach turning to think that a woman can get sprung enough to not protect her kids, but it happens.

Clearly PapaD had a fetish for Black women and acted on it widely. Given that he had 14 known and acknowledged children (and Lord knows how many others), Etterlene was hardly alone.

However, look at his man's sons....El clearly has these sorts of magical powers of penis, but I hope none of his women gets caught up like his mother did. Unfortunately men of this sort have a knack for finding women who get caught up to some degree.

U make a solid point....Janet was also sprung(dickmatized) on James to the point of getting in her mercedes to pick up James late at night on a drug binge in south central LA.....

MamaD tells a very sweet, yet revealing story about Janet in her book. She says that she and James were going to the landromat to do their wash when Janet comes by. They were dating then, but not so serious yet. Anyway, Janet offers to walk w/ them and just hang out. She grabs a load and they walk together. Everything's fine and dandy until folks started to recognize Janet.

That story tells me three things...Janet was still doing some normal everyday things AND that De Barge was so badly off to not be able to afford a washer/dryer!

Oh yeah, that De Barge stuff can make a rich girl walk to a laundromat to wash other folks' dirty laundry?! Well, dayum!

brooksie said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

U make a solid point....Janet was also sprung(dickmatized) on James to the point of getting in her mercedes to pick up James late at night on a drug binge in south central LA.....

MamaD tells a very sweet, yet revealing story about Janet in her book. She says that she and James were going to the landromat to do their wash when Janet comes by. They were dating then, but not so serious yet. Anyway, Janet offers to walk w/ them and just hang out. She grabs a load and they walk together. Everything's fine and dandy until folks started to recognize Janet.

That story tells me three things...Janet was still doing some normal everyday things AND that De Barge was so badly off to not be able to afford a washer/dryer!

Oh yeah, that De Barge stuff can make a rich girl walk to a laundromat to wash other folks' dirty laundry?! Well, dayum!

I think the Jacksons partially raised them DeBarges or helped them out! I know the parents were probably at odds with each other though. I mean Joe Jackson probably thought Etterlene was scum. I wouldn't put it past him but the Jackson children seem to get along with the DeBarge children. Strange.

Hmm looking at Robert DeBarge, Sr.

You know which of the DeBarge children take after their father in the looks department?

Randy, Mark, El, James and Chico (I think Father DeBarge was closer to them...)

The other DeBarges look like lighter skinned Abneys.

Timmy84 said:

brooksie said:

Still a hot mess to me seeing how Tony Jones is dePasse's cousin. Gotta love Motown and their keepin' it in the family!

Motown always had family ties... that's one of the strangest things about this label. No wonder some keep calling it a "family"...

Smokie is that you?