FunkiestOne said:

Person who is #1 on the list has the least talent of anyone on the list.

Well she is talented and marketing, but not a talented artist. It's like Steve Jobs being #1 on that list or something.

Oh come on. Even in her early career in the 80's she has written or cowritten some good pop/aor songs. No she isnt Dylan but I think a lot of her antics have overshadowed some songwriting. Not plea copping but just being realistic.

rdhull said:

FunkiestOne said:

Person who is #1 on the list has the least talent of anyone on the list.

Well she is talented and marketing, but not a talented artist. It's like Steve Jobs being #1 on that list or something.

Oh come on. Even in her early career in the 80's she has written or cowritten some good pop/aor songs. No she isnt Dylan but I think a lot of her antics have overshadowed some songwriting. Not plea copping but just being realistic.

Not really.

Graycap23 said:

rdhull said:

Oh come on. Even in her early career in the 80's she has written or cowritten some good pop/aor songs. No she isnt Dylan but I think a lot of her antics have overshadowed some songwriting. Not plea copping but just being realistic.

Not really.

(okaygonnaget mysoulalivestanneryon)

MG you dont think Like A Prayer is a good song? True Blue a nice throwback ditty? Oh Father? Borderline a simple melody turned into a tasty pop confection thats easily hummable? Deeper and Depper isnt that jam? Take A Bow? Ray Of Light? Dress You Up (even though the music is tinny in production and back ground ahhs need three soul sistas doin it)? Nothing Fails form the hideous but misunderstood American Life?

granted, she has made some bullshit..a lot..but come on she can write decent pop songs here and there.

I mean (and Im going to regret this statement)..she had some of the current producer/artisst willing to work with her on Hard candy...Neptunes, Kanye, Timberlake etc...and even when she was relevant, she had the mighty Prince...yeah him..the purple one..doing a duet with her. The dude who is all about music (or maybe he saw her as a Vanity 6 etc silly protege stance. But iof he did why would he send her tapes to work out on her own ala Wendy & Lisa?).

Don't underestimate her talents. She wouldn't be able to sell millions of singes and sell out stadiums around the world and have a incredibly successful career spanning nearly 30 years and be the template for nearly every female pop performer who's come along ever since, if she was just good at marketing herself. People like her music.

Anyone who's ever seen her in concert knows what star quality and charisma she has which adds to her music. She's always written and made great pop songs, songs that can get in your head and brought them to life with amazing music videos which add to the song. The themes of concerts, videos and songs have always been interesting and, up until recently, stayed away from mainstream trends and tastes. She's been subversive and provocative to make people think and quaestion themselves, not just for attention.

She's a visual artist... image, videos, performances are just as important as the music. Same as Bowie was. She's never sold herself as the best singer or musician, she just tries her best to make good music. Jimi Hendrix wasn't a great singer, does that mean his music is bad? Obviously no.

Lastly, her attitude and strength are incredibly appealing to her fans as she has always done exactly what she has wanted with her life and career and even when she's taken crap for it, she carries on. She's in control. She's made it ok for outsiders to feel good about themselves and not feel like they have to be like everyone else.

Just because none of the above is important to you doesn't mean it isn't to millions of other people.

People saying she untalented, can't sing, can't dance, can't act, can't direct, she's old, a couger, got wrinkly hands and men's arms, had work on her face and is nothing more than a whore hasn't stopped her from carrying on for the past 30 years and it never will.

Like her/Don't like her. Whatever.

rdhull said:

Graycap23 said:

Not really.

(okaygonnaget mysoulalivestanneryon)

MG you dont think Like A Prayer is a good song? True Blue a nice throwback ditty? Oh Father? Borderline a simple melody turned into a tasty pop confection thats easily hummable? Deeper and Depper isnt that jam? Take A Bow? Ray Of Light? Dress You Up (even though the music is tinny in production and back ground ahhs need three soul sistas doin it)? Nothing Fails form the hideous but misunderstood American Life?

granted, she has made some bullshit..a lot..but come on she can write decent pop songs here and there.

I mean (and Im going to regret this statement)..she had some of the current producer/artisst willing to work with her on Hard candy...Neptunes, Kanye, Timberlake etc...and even when she was relevant, she had the mighty Prince...yeah him..the purple one..doing a duet with her. The dude who is all about music (or maybe he saw her as a Vanity 6 etc silly protege stance. But iof he did why would he send her tapes to work out on her own ala Wendy & Lisa?).

Honestly...............I think MaDonna is thee most overrated artist in the history of modern music.

If she never existed...........music would be exactly the same today, perhaps even better.

I can probably name some where around 5 to 10 songs her whole career that I would even waste my time listening 2.

rlittler81 said:

Don't underestimate her talents. She wouldn't be able to sell millions of singes and sell out stadiums around the world and have a incredibly successful career spanning nearly 30 years and be the template for nearly every female pop performer who's come along ever since, if she was just good at marketing herself. People like her music.

Anyone who's ever seen her in concert knows what star quality and charisma she has which adds to her music. She's always written and made great pop songs, songs that can get in your head and brought them to life with amazing music videos which add to the song. The themes of concerts, videos and songs have always been interesting and, up until recently, stayed away from mainstream trends and tastes. She's been subversive and provocative to make people think and quaestion themselves, not just for attention.

She's a visual artist... image, videos, performances are just as important as the music. Same as Bowie was. She's never sold herself as the best singer or musician, she just tries her best to make good music. Jimi Hendrix wasn't a great singer, does that mean his music is bad? Obviously no.

Lastly, her attitude and strength are incredibly appealing to her fans as she has always done exactly what she has wanted with her life and career and even when she's taken crap for it, she carries on. She's in control. She's made it ok for outsiders to feel good about themselves and not feel like they have to be like everyone else.

Just because none of the above is important to you doesn't mean it isn't to millions of other people.

People saying she untalented, can't sing, can't dance, can't act, can't direct, she's old, a couger, got wrinkly hands and men's arms, had work on her face and is nothing more than a whore hasn't stopped her from carrying on for the past 30 years and it never will.

Like her/Don't like her. Whatever.

Well-said! She is a living legend and I love the fact she is still going strong when so many others have fallen by the wayside.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never bought anyone's music because of how well they were able to "market" themselves. It was always because I liked their music - period. So I call bullshit on the claim that Madonna isn't an artist and that her only talent is in marketing herself. That's an opinion, a bias and stupid one, that I contradict.

What's not an opinion, though, is the fact that Madonna tops the list of the artist with the most top 10 singles in history. Don't like it? Tough. There's nothing you can say, do or project to negate that reality.

[Edited 2/17/12 10:00am]

TROR said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never bought anyone's music because of how well they were able to "market" themselves. It was always because I liked their music - period. So I call bullshit on the claim that Madonna isn't an artist and that her only talent is in marketing herself. That's an opinion, a bias and stupid one, that I contradict.

What's not an opinion, though, is the fact that Madonna tops the list of the artist with the most top 10 singles in history. Don't like it? Tough. There's nothing you can say, do or project to negate that reality.

[Edited 2/17/12 10:00am]

There are a ton of people who buy certain music because it is "popular" do 2 so, even if they don't like it.

realtalk said:

Timmy84 said:

If they're gonna include the J5/Jacksons' top ten hits, might as well include Paul's, Ringo's, George's and John's top ten hits after they left the Beatles.

Lol? Did Ringo and George even have any? I know John and Paul definitely had a good bit.

Different situations though. The Beatles kind of all made eachother, they wrote lyrics and music and played instruments. I think you remove any one of the 4 from the equation and it's just not the same.

The Jackson 5/Jacksons were more studio backed by the Motown machine and later on Gamble and Huff.

I just think they should count for the simple fact that Michael Jackson was the entire Jackson 5/Jacksons. If Michael was never born and they had 8 kids instead of 9, the Jacksons would still be living in Gary, Indiana right now. That group was literally nothing without Michael Jackson.

Well the breakdown on SOLO Beatles works in the Top 10 are

Paul 22 (also with Wings)

John 8

George 5

Ringo 7

shuts down the theory on RINGO, he had almost more than John, and 2 came after John's death so, who knows where those 2 songs would have landed.

I think u have to include it, though i understand the point of it being seperate, but it can be said that Paul sang lead on alot of the Beatle Top 10's too, so that being said PAUL has 56 top 10's and i doubt that is going to be eclipsed by anyone.

[Edited 2/17/12 10:18am]

Does it really matter how this performs? Honestly. Some people in this thread acting like it means something. Her legacy is already set regardless.

musicjunky318 said:

Does it really matter how this performs? Honestly. Some people in this thread acting like it means something. Her legacy is already set regardless.

I agree.Madonna really has nothing to prove.Still,the occasional Top 10 hit is a nice thing to have

Graycap23 said:

rdhull said:

(okaygonnaget mysoulalivestanneryon)

MG you dont think Like A Prayer is a good song? True Blue a nice throwback ditty? Oh Father? Borderline a simple melody turned into a tasty pop confection thats easily hummable? Deeper and Depper isnt that jam? Take A Bow? Ray Of Light? Dress You Up (even though the music is tinny in production and back ground ahhs need three soul sistas doin it)? Nothing Fails form the hideous but misunderstood American Life?

granted, she has made some bullshit..a lot..but come on she can write decent pop songs here and there.

I mean (and Im going to regret this statement)..she had some of the current producer/artisst willing to work with her on Hard candy...Neptunes, Kanye, Timberlake etc...and even when she was relevant, she had the mighty Prince...yeah him..the purple one..doing a duet with her. The dude who is all about music (or maybe he saw her as a Vanity 6 etc silly protege stance. But iof he did why would he send her tapes to work out on her own ala Wendy & Lisa?).

Honestly...............I think MaDonna is thee most overrated artist in the history of modern music.

If she never existed...........music would be exactly the same today, perhaps even better.

I can probably name some where around 5 to 10 songs her whole career that I would even waste my time listening 2.

The thing is nobody is overrating her. She's never been a bastion of the apex of music like a Bob Dylan etc. I realize many folks regard her music as disposable but I think that relates ot the disservice the industry (grammy etc etc) does with pop and rnb artists/musicians by dismissing them (see The Funk Bros for example). And that is because its pop, disposable pop, rnb, bullshit hybrid rnb, it isnt art or worthy. Only rock music is. I think when you deride Madonna it kind of rides close to that dismissal of specif genres that several talented but unheralded people are a part of. At least give her creidt as one artist who gives that type of music some credibility and has at times taken it to a more "respectable" level by the music industry. Thats the only beef I realy have with her as she can be so deep with it, give it more substance than the typical throwaway artist but then come back with some bs L.U.V. Madonna cheer song etc. WTF?

Graycap23 said:

TROR said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never bought anyone's music because of how well they were able to "market" themselves. It was always because I liked their music - period. So I call bullshit on the claim that Madonna isn't an artist and that her only talent is in marketing herself. That's an opinion, a bias and stupid one, that I contradict.

What's not an opinion, though, is the fact that Madonna tops the list of the artist with the most top 10 singles in history. Don't like it? Tough. There's nothing you can say, do or project to negate that reality.

[Edited 2/17/12 10:00am]

There are a ton of people who buy certain music because it is "popular" do 2 so, even if they don't like it.

Does Madonna's success hurt ur feelings, boo?

rdhull said:

Graycap23 said:

Honestly...............I think MaDonna is thee most overrated artist in the history of modern music.

If she never existed...........music would be exactly the same today, perhaps even better.

I can probably name some where around 5 to 10 songs her whole career that I would even waste my time listening 2.

The thing is nobody is overrating her. She's never been a bastion of the apex of music like a Bob Dylan etc. I realize many folks regard her music as disposable but I think that relates ot the disservice the industry (grammy etc etc) does with pop and rnb artists/musicians by dismissing them (see The Funk Bros for example). And that is because its pop, disposable pop, rnb, bullshit hybrid rnb, it isnt art or worthy. Only rock music is. I think when you deride Madonna it kind of rides close to that dismissal of specif genres that several talented but unheralded people are a part of. At least give her creidt as one artist who gives that type of music some credibility and has at times taken it to a more "respectable" level by the music industry. Thats the only beef I realy have with her as she can be so deep with it, give it more substance than the typical throwaway artist but then come back with some bs L.U.V. Madonna cheer song etc. WTF?

As a lover of music.....that the fact that she is even still around makes her overrated in my book.

This woman is a NON talent in my book. Am I mad at her 4 trying? No.

Do I apprecaited her work? Not on any level from a musical standpoint. Anyone...........I repeat anyone can hire certain producers 2 make them look/sound decent. That is all she has ever done and these days, that is 90% of the industry.

badujunkie said:

Graycap23 said:

There are a ton of people who buy certain music because it is "popular" do 2 so, even if they don't like it.

Does Madonna's success hurt ur feelings, boo?

Really? That's all u got?

realtalk said:

do those 28 of Jackson's include his J5/Jacksons hits? If they don't already they should, cause let's get real here- nobody listened to those records cause of Tito or Jermaine.

By that logic Diana would be on there with 30.

Graycap23 said:

badujunkie said:

Does Madonna's success hurt ur feelings, boo?

Really? That's all u got?

That answers it. Feel better.

SoulAlive said:

musicjunky318 said:

Does it really matter how this performs? Honestly. Some people in this thread acting like it means something. Her legacy is already set regardless.

I agree.Madonna really has nothing to prove.Still,the occasional Top 10 hit is a nice thing to have

My thoughts exactly.

RKJCNE said:

SoulAlive said:

I agree.Madonna really has nothing to prove.Still,the occasional Top 10 hit is a nice thing to have

My thoughts exactly.

She's got 2 more albums on her deal, I think she can reach 40 based on downloads of the next two albums' first singles.

Hudson said:

realtalk said:

do those 28 of Jackson's include his J5/Jacksons hits? If they don't already they should, cause let's get real here- nobody listened to those records cause of Tito or Jermaine.

By that logic Diana would be on there with 30.

Exactly. If you're gonna include one, include them all.

badujunkie said:

Graycap23 said:

Really? That's all u got?

That answers it. Feel better.

Graycap23 said:

badujunkie said:

That answers it. Feel better.

Maybe start a thread on some real music so that my white, wonderbread, madonna, non real-music loving ass can go to school.

badujunkie said:

asg said:

Sales mean a singer with a fan base can have a quick hit for one week and the song is gone. Tkae example of u "cant touch this" reached only #9 but everyone knows about it.

Instead u can have "one min" top 10 with no airplay and no one even knows which song it was.

There is something wrong there.

corporate radio playlist is the same coporation which is her record label i seriously thing it wont even have got an audience of 5mil if she wasnt signed to them

ok. people paying money for a song means less than people 'knowing' the song from the radio -- whatever

yes she manages those one week spikes and its gone so fast. The total number of downloads will not compare to the other songs. If MJ was around and releasing songs he could manage not top 10 spikes but #1 spikes coz he has the most rabid fans. I am sure billboard will change the formula to remove these one week spikes.

and the how many hits thing is tired as much as the naysayer comments..of course if someone keeps going they are bound to surpass Elvis, Beatles etc etc..they were only in the game for so long..not to take away from even remaining relevant enough to keep having hits etc but just sayin'....

asg said:

badujunkie said:

ok. people paying money for a song means less than people 'knowing' the song from the radio -- whatever

yes she manages those one week spikes and its gone so fast. The total number of downloads will not compare to the other songs. If MJ was around and releasing songs he could manage not top 10 spikes but #1 spikes coz he has the most rabid fans. I am sure billboard will change the formula to remove these one week spikes.

oh, so that explains why his last album had a single peak at the same exact position as hers.

it would be cooler if you just said "MJ hasn't had as many solo top 10 hits as Madonna, damn it, that untalented ho is undeserving of his level of greatness" or something...be real.

i love madonna, mj, janet, and prince all equally, and i will say when they are sucking and half assing it, and i will say when their careers are OVAH! (Janet), getting boring with their new stuff (Prince), they are just too high for the past decade to givva fuck (Michael), or just acting like a self-important old slut (Madonna), but I genuinely love a) Madonna's new song and b) am so happy that she can still pull a top 10 out of her ass while trash like Kelly Clarkson, Adele, and corny techno-hip hop shit are all over the charts. why hate on her success? her having another big hit that people are paying to download takes nothing away from MJ's success. and it doesn't make Janet's career any more dead.

[Edited 2/17/12 11:50am]

badujunkie said:

Graycap23 said:

Maybe start a thread on some real music so that my white, wonderbread, madonna, non real-music loving ass can go to school.

Don't sweat it.

People like what they like.

Graycap23 said:

TROR said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never bought anyone's music because of how well they were able to "market" themselves. It was always because I liked their music - period. So I call bullshit on the claim that Madonna isn't an artist and that her only talent is in marketing herself. That's an opinion, a bias and stupid one, that I contradict.

What's not an opinion, though, is the fact that Madonna tops the list of the artist with the most top 10 singles in history. Don't like it? Tough. There's nothing you can say, do or project to negate that reality.

[Edited 2/17/12 10:00am]

There are a ton of people who buy certain music because it is "popular" do 2 so, even if they don't like it.

…and there are tons more people who don't. I don't own Adele's album, despite how over-saturated its been in media. I buy music that I like by artists I like, period.

Madonna's not some new fad that just came out 2-3 years ago. Everyone knows who she is, everyone knows what does and everyone knows what her music generally sounds like…and if after almost 30 years she's still selling albums (over 350 million records sold), still having top 10 singles (and now has more than anyone else in history), still having record breaking tours, and is in the R&RHOF...then clearly her music must be appealing enough to the general public. If Madonna was all about the marketing and her music didn't live up to it, she wouldn't have made it out of the 1980s. The jig would have been up years ago.

Your argument defies logic. Madonna's music career is legendary, and her catalog is worth hundreds of millions. She has fans…millions of them…who are diligent in their devotion who completely disagree with your stance --- and prove it with their wallets.

Deal with it.

[Edited 2/17/12 12:09pm]

TROR said:

Graycap23 said:

There are a ton of people who buy certain music because it is "popular" do 2 so, even if they don't like it.

…and there are tons more people who don't. I don't own Adele's album, despite how over-saturated its been in media. I buy music that I like by artists I like, period.

Madonna's not some new fad that just came out 2-3 years ago. Everyone knows who she is, everyone knows what does and everyone knows what her music generally sounds like…and if after almost 30 years she's still selling albums (over 350 million records sold), still having top 10 singles (and now has more than anyone else in history), still having record breaking tours, and is in the R&RHOF...then clearly her music must be appealing enough to the general public. If Madonna was all about the marketing and her music didn't live up to it, she wouldn't have made it out of the 1980s. The jig would have been up years ago.

Your argument defies logic. Madonna's music career is legendary, and her catalog is worth hundreds of millions. She has fans…millions of them…who are diligent in their devotion who completely disagree with your stance --- and prove it with their wallets.

Deal with it.

[Edited 2/17/12 12:09pm]

The anger in your comments are obvious.

I could give a crap about Madonna or her career.

I'm simply stating my opinion.

There are plenty of people with bad taste. So be it.

Graycap23 said:

TROR said:

…and there are tons more people who don't. I don't own Adele's album, despite how over-saturated its been in media. I buy music that I like by artists I like, period.

Madonna's not some new fad that just came out 2-3 years ago. Everyone knows who she is, everyone knows what does and everyone knows what her music generally sounds like…and if after almost 30 years she's still selling albums (over 350 million records sold), still having top 10 singles (and now has more than anyone else in history), still having record breaking tours, and is in the R&RHOF...then clearly her music must be appealing enough to the general public. If Madonna was all about the marketing and her music didn't live up to it, she wouldn't have made it out of the 1980s. The jig would have been up years ago.

Your argument defies logic. Madonna's music career is legendary, and her catalog is worth hundreds of millions. She has fans…millions of them…who are diligent in their devotion who completely disagree with your stance --- and prove it with their wallets.

Deal with it.

[Edited 2/17/12 12:09pm]

The anger in your comments are obvious.

I could give a crap about Madonna or her career.

I'm simply stating my opinion.

There are plenty of people with bad taste. So be it.

That's a lie, because if you truly didn't give a crap about Madonna or her career then you wouldn't be in this thread, several posts in, trying to argue some illogical opinion against her that's being debunked.

And "taste" is subjective. Stats aren't. The stats are on Madonna's side.

TROR said:

Graycap23 said:

The anger in your comments are obvious.

I could give a crap about Madonna or her career.

I'm simply stating my opinion.

There are plenty of people with bad taste. So be it.

That's a lie, because if you truly didn't give a crap about Madonna or her career then you wouldn't be in this thread, several posts in, trying to argue some illogical opinion against her that's being debunked.

And "taste" is subjective. Stats aren't. The stats are on Madonna's side.

debunked?

She still is a no talent regardless of what her stats are.