Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

Keeping it Marvin, I've read his interviews when discussing What's Going On, oddly enough he always discredits himself despite the fact he produced the album and co-wrote all the songs, he said God was the one that should've been credited saying the album was produced "under a divine purpose".

Easy what you say, Tony going to come in & say the illuminati told Marvin to do it

I doubt it.

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Nah but seriously I think the only reason he said it is because when he was making it he was still struggling with Tammi Terrell's death and the rigors of show business (he was starting to use cocaine during this time) and he felt that he was never in "control" of the project though people who worked with him on the album definitely thought Marvin was in control since he produced the whole thing.

Well to me that sounds logical. I won't deny his feelings of divinity working through him though.

duccichucka said:

FrenchGuy said:

Please don't me ...

First of all, I'm a great Marvin Gaye fan. And I love "What's Going On". Whenever I see "best albums of all time list" (NME, Rolling Stone, Pitchfork), The spot of the top 'black' (or soul/R&B) albums is always filled with "What's Going On". So I supposed many see it as the ultimate soul album...

I don't even think it's Marvin best album. respect the message of the lyrics but musically, I personnally think "I Want You" for example is superior.

I get the same feeling with Prince too, as they always mention "Purple Rain" as his best album ...

What do you think? Is "What's Going On" the best soul/'black' album ever?

If not, what would be your choice?

Not only is What's Goin' On Marvin Gaye's best work, I champion it as the best popular

record ever produced, before anything by the Beatles (who I hold as the best band ever),

Wonder, Prince and the Beach Boys (ir any other pop luminaries you can think of).

All of the songs are crafted meticulously; they are slightly abstract because of their

Afro-jazzy arrangements and socio-political content but accessible because Gaye's melodic

sensibilities was hitting on all cylinders here; besides, everybody can relate to the topics

at hand here because we all know what it feels like to be a member of a group of people

in society who are marginalized.

Never before had a Black American pop musician assembled a record to not only be heard

as simply an artistic statement or aesthetic expression, but as a cultural message

about the happenings of a beloved country. In this regard, What's Goin' On serves as both an artistic and social bellwether.

I can only listen to this album once every two or three years because of its overwhelming

aural majesty and insight; it's a heavy record and I think it should be treated as the Hebrews

treated the Urim and Thummim.

So no, I don't think What's Goin' On is overrated at all. If anything, because I hold it as the

best pop album ever written and produced, it's underrated.

Very well stated.

Musicslave said:

duccichucka said:

Not only is What's Goin' On Marvin Gaye's best work, I champion it as the best popular

record ever produced, before anything by the Beatles (who I hold as the best band ever),

Wonder, Prince and the Beach Boys (ir any other pop luminaries you can think of).

All of the songs are crafted meticulously; they are slightly abstract because of their

Afro-jazzy arrangements and socio-political content but accessible because Gaye's melodic

sensibilities was hitting on all cylinders here; besides, everybody can relate to the topics

at hand here because we all know what it feels like to be a member of a group of people

in society who are marginalized.

Never before had a Black American pop musician assembled a record to not only be heard

as simply an artistic statement or aesthetic expression, but as a cultural message

about the happenings of a beloved country. In this regard, What's Goin' On serves as both an artistic and social bellwether.

I can only listen to this album once every two or three years because of its overwhelming

aural majesty and insight; it's a heavy record and I think it should be treated as the Hebrews

treated the Urim and Thummim.

So no, I don't think What's Goin' On is overrated at all. If anything, because I hold it as the

best pop album ever written and produced, it's underrated.

Very well stated.

He needs to get off the org and start writing books.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Nah but seriously I think the only reason he said it is because when he was making it he was still struggling with Tammi Terrell's death and the rigors of show business (he was starting to use cocaine during this time) and he felt that he was never in "control" of the project though people who worked with him on the album definitely thought Marvin was in control since he produced the whole thing.

Well to me that sounds logical. I won't deny his feelings of divinity working through him though.

Seeing as he was religious, it's not a shock he'd think it was. This is why he didn't wanna do another What's Going On type album again. He later confessed he felt pressured by Motown because they saw the sales the album generated (around two million and that was the most for Motown's albums at the time). You could kinda tell Marvin didn't like to be told what to do when you hear the You're the Man project. He hardly wrote all but one or two songs during that project (You're the Man and I'm Goin' Home). So him going from social issues to physical sex was not shocking. He needed to reinvent himself constantly, which was a struggle between him and Motown's addiction for repetitiveness. When he was asked in 1983 why he hadn't made another album like What's Going On, he said he would have to be in a bad state psychologically to come up with that type of album again...and he was right.

i wrote this a few months ago for a blog. this pretty much sums it up for me.

http://chewstick.org/1505

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Well to me that sounds logical. I won't deny his feelings of divinity working through him though.

Seeing as he was religious, it's not a shock he'd think it was. This is why he didn't wanna do another What's Going On type album again. He later confessed he felt pressured by Motown because they saw the sales the album generated (around two million and that was the most for Motown's albums at the time). You could kinda tell Marvin didn't like to be told what to do when you hear the You're the Man project. He hardly wrote all but one or two songs during that project (You're the Man and I'm Goin' Home). So him going from social issues to physical sex was not shocking. He needed to reinvent himself constantly, which was a struggle between him and Motown's addiction for repetitiveness. When he was asked in 1983 why he hadn't made another album like What's Going On, he said he would have to be in a bad state psychologically to come up with that type of album again...and he was right.

I respect artists that can evolve without retreading back to areas previously explored. In my opinion, that's what separates the greats from the "average" musicians.

No it's not. It's in the Top 3 albums of all time probably only behind Songs In The Key Of Life and something else.

musicjunky318 said:

No it's not. It's in the Top 3 albums of all time probably only behind Songs In The Key Of Life and something else.

To me, I think Songs is bloated. There was a whole lot of shit going on in that record (kinda like some of the Beatles records in their late period, and maybe that's what Stevie was gunning for). Marvin's and Donny's albums were on the mark more than Songs was, to me.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Seeing as he was religious, it's not a shock he'd think it was. This is why he didn't wanna do another What's Going On type album again. He later confessed he felt pressured by Motown because they saw the sales the album generated (around two million and that was the most for Motown's albums at the time). You could kinda tell Marvin didn't like to be told what to do when you hear the You're the Man project. He hardly wrote all but one or two songs during that project (You're the Man and I'm Goin' Home). So him going from social issues to physical sex was not shocking. He needed to reinvent himself constantly, which was a struggle between him and Motown's addiction for repetitiveness. When he was asked in 1983 why he hadn't made another album like What's Going On, he said he would have to be in a bad state psychologically to come up with that type of album again...and he was right.

I respect artists that can evolve without retreading back to areas previously explored. In my opinion, that's what separates the greats from the "average" musicians.

Right, even during Marvin's teenybopper era, his label mates thought Marvin would definitely go further than he was going at that time.

Is Overrated? No not to me, it's an excellent album. His best IMO.

Is it the best soul album ever? that's contentious and entirely up to the criterion of the listener, and since you ask me I will say no. I think There's A Riot Goin On was more influential & Innervisions was more idiosyncratic. Talking Book, There's a Riot Goin On, Innervisions, Songs in the Key of Life, Sign O' the Times, all are as good as or better than What's Going On.

My Choice? Innervisions all the way. I like the thematic cohesiveness of What's Goin On but love the chromatic cohesiveness found on innervisions. I think the melodies are more varied and better used on this album, & overall I just love everything about it. Stevie was just on another plane of pop music in the 70's.

Sandino said:

Is Overrated? No not to me, it's an excellent album. His best IMO.

Is it the best soul album ever? that's contentious and entirely up to the criterion of the listener, and since you ask me I will say no. I think There's A Riot Goin On was more influential & Innervisions was more idiosyncratic. Talking Book, There's a Riot Goin On, Innervisions, Songs in the Key of Life, Sign O' the Times, all are as good as or better than What's Going On.

My Choice? Innervisions all the way. I like the thematic cohesiveness of What's Goin On but love the chromatic cohesiveness found on innervisions. I think the melodies are more varied and better used on this album, & overall I just love everything about it. Stevie was just on another plane of pop music in the 70's.

As great as Stevie Wonder's '70s albums were, they were more or less the byproduct and extension of what "What's Going On" accomplished. Not only musically, but Gaye's ability to gain creative control of his music is what motivated Wonder to be more experimental with his music (and his negotiating with Motown). Personally, "Innervisions" would be the one album I would put on the same plane as "What's Going On."

MusickMan said:

Sandino said:

Is Overrated? No not to me, it's an excellent album. His best IMO.

Is it the best soul album ever? that's contentious and entirely up to the criterion of the listener, and since you ask me I will say no. I think There's A Riot Goin On was more influential & Innervisions was more idiosyncratic. Talking Book, There's a Riot Goin On, Innervisions, Songs in the Key of Life, Sign O' the Times, all are as good as or better than What's Going On.

My Choice? Innervisions all the way. I like the thematic cohesiveness of What's Goin On but love the chromatic cohesiveness found on innervisions. I think the melodies are more varied and better used on this album, & overall I just love everything about it. Stevie was just on another plane of pop music in the 70's.

As great as Stevie Wonder's '70s albums were, they were more or less the byproduct and extension of what "What's Going On" accomplished. Not only musically, but Gaye's ability to gain creative control of his music is what motivated Wonder to be more experimental with his music (and his negotiating with Motown). Personally, "Innervisions" would be the one album I would put on the same plane as "What's Going On."

Me too.

MusickMan said:

Sandino said:

Is Overrated? No not to me, it's an excellent album. His best IMO.

Is it the best soul album ever? that's contentious and entirely up to the criterion of the listener, and since you ask me I will say no. I think There's A Riot Goin On was more influential & Innervisions was more idiosyncratic. Talking Book, There's a Riot Goin On, Innervisions, Songs in the Key of Life, Sign O' the Times, all are as good as or better than What's Going On.

My Choice? Innervisions all the way. I like the thematic cohesiveness of What's Goin On but love the chromatic cohesiveness found on innervisions. I think the melodies are more varied and better used on this album, & overall I just love everything about it. Stevie was just on another plane of pop music in the 70's.

As great as Stevie Wonder's '70s albums were, they were more or less the byproduct and extension of what "What's Going On" accomplished. Not only musically, but Gaye's ability to gain creative control of his music is what motivated Wonder to be more experimental with his music (and his negotiating with Motown). Personally, "Innervisions" would be the one album I would put on the same plane as "What's Going On."

Untrue. Stevie had already begun experimentin by the beginning of 70' arguably releasing the finest motown album up to that point in Signed Sealed & Delivered, and WICF was basically the prototype that served as template for things to come on subsequent albums(social commentary, funk songs, ballads, pop song, wash rinse repeat) and stevie began that project in April of 70', maybe a month or so after Marv started recording the single & long before he conceived of the album. Before What's Goin on was released Stevie had already allowed his 2nd contract with Motown to expire, forcing them to re-sign with him in June of 71'. I'll try to find it, there was an article once posted here which was literally from 1971 expounding on the little details in his contract and that interim time between MoMM & WICF, but the onus isn't on me to prove anything. You asserted that everything Stevie did in the 70's are "more or less" due to What's Goin On. care to provide a detailed argument for why you believe this?

^ Yeah but he still was suffering from the Motown repetitiveness. In terms of raw musical ability, he definitely had bright moments in Where I'm Coming From. Signed, Sealed & Delivered was his best "assembly line-era" album. Berry Gordy still didn't trust many of his artists doing their own writing. And Stevie WAS motivated by Marvin after "What's Going On", the single came out. In fact, some of the songs on "Where I'm Coming From" that had a socially conscious concept (Look Around, I Wanna Talk to You, Do Yourself a Favor) seemed to take bits from Marvin and Sly. Other songs had a more Beatles favor or Hitsville sound (Take Up a Course in Happiness). Plus Syreeta Wright was the lyrical writer for Where I'm Coming From.

Sandino said:

Untrue. Stevie had already begun experimentin by the beginning of 70' arguably releasing the finest motown album up to that point in Signed Sealed & Delivered, and WICF was basically the prototype that served as template for things to come on subsequent albums(social commentary, funk songs, ballads, pop song, wash rinse repeat) and stevie began that project in April of 70', maybe a month or so after Marv started recording the single & long before he conceived of the album. Before What's Goin on was released Stevie had already allowed his 2nd contract with Motown to expire, forcing them to re-sign with him in June of 71'. I'll try to find it, there was an article once posted here which was literally from 1971 expounding on the little details in his contract and that interim time between MoMM & WICF, but the onus isn't on me to prove anything. You asserted that everything Stevie did in the 70's are "more or less" due to What's Goin On. care to provide a detailed argument for why you believe this?

Although Stevie Wonder had begun producing his own recordings, Motown still retained control over the content of his albums. Wonder exercised a clause, voiding his contract and knowing that Motown would be forced to accept whatever he gave to them, so he produced "Where I'm Coming From" without any outside interference.

Wonder's contract with Motown ended when he turned 21, which would have been May 1971. Motown was eager to re-sign him, but he decided not to re-sign with any label and essentially locked himself in Mediasound Studios in Manhattan for 10 months with engineer Malcolm Cecil and Bob Margouleff, who referred Wonder to the Moog synthesizer (which played a major role in expanding his musical styles and textures).

When Wonder re-emerged, he had completed "Music From My Mind." However, before he re-signed with Motown, but only if he was allowed to have complete control over his work -- similar to what Marvin Gaye got. Only when Motown saw that Wonder conceiveably could leave did it give Wonder the creative freedom he wanted.

Wonder did some experimentation with some of his pre-golden age music, but like Timmy84 said, he wanted the creative freedom Gaye fought for and received. He simply did not want to be constrained like Gaye and wanted to make more songs in the vein of social relevance and more complete albums, like Gaye. The success of "What's Going On" reinforced Wonder's confidence in taking control of his creative freedom (a similar thought The Jackson 5 had, which led them to leave Motown).

[Edited 2/15/12 16:41pm]

Timmy84 said:

MusickMan said:

As great as Stevie Wonder's '70s albums were, they were more or less the byproduct and extension of what "What's Going On" accomplished. Not only musically, but Gaye's ability to gain creative control of his music is what motivated Wonder to be more experimental with his music (and his negotiating with Motown). Personally, "Innervisions" would be the one album I would put on the same plane as "What's Going On."

Me too.

Agree as well

The rest that was mention, doesn't come close, including Riot

Just my

HuMpThAnG said:

Timmy84 said:

Me too.

Agree as well

The rest that was mention, doesn't come close, including Riot

Just my

And seeing that "Riot" was an entirely DIFFERENT album altogether, I don't know why it was mentioned.

Timmy84 said:

^ Yeah but he still was suffering from the Motown repetitiveness. In terms of raw musical ability, he definitely had bright moments in Where I'm Coming From. Signed, Sealed & Delivered was his best "assembly line-era" album. Berry Gordy still didn't trust many of his artists doing their own writing. And Stevie WAS motivated by Marvin after "What's Going On", the single came out. In fact, some of the songs on "Where I'm Coming From" that had a socially conscious concept (Look Around, I Wanna Talk to You, Do Yourself a Favor) seemed to take bits from Marvin and Sly. Other songs had a more Beatles favor or Hitsville sound (Take Up a Course in Happiness). Plus Syreeta Wright was the lyrical writer for Where I'm Coming From.

Na Tim I certainly disagree. Signed, Sealed' has production that is slightly different anything Whitfield, Gordy, HDH or anyone else had done prior; StaxVolt has a more pronounced influence on this album than what Cookie-cutter Motown permitted. The uptempo tracks are far more syncopated, the rhythm section practically revolves around the back beat, unlike Motown which typically played simple 2 & 4 on their singles (Gaye's Ain't No mountain High) and the clavinet here is more funkier than anything Stevie had done with the exception of maybe "you met your match". On We Can Work it out U can hear the archetypal stevie song. Insistent drumming, half open hi-hat. layered vocal accompaniment showcasing his octave range, single-note crunched clav riffs between open intervals, etc etc.

I don't deny Marvin was influential, I just deny that Marvin had as direct and immediate an impact on Stevie's work as what MusicMan seems to be claiming. Stevie didn't have any one influence that pervasive in his work.

Marvin at his best and Motown at the end of its peak. Its an album that can be played today and still have the same message it had when it came out. Wish we had more Marvins in the world of music

MusickMan said:

Sandino said:

Untrue. Stevie had already begun experimentin by the beginning of 70' arguably releasing the finest motown album up to that point in Signed Sealed & Delivered, and WICF was basically the prototype that served as template for things to come on subsequent albums(social commentary, funk songs, ballads, pop song, wash rinse repeat) and stevie began that project in April of 70', maybe a month or so after Marv started recording the single & long before he conceived of the album. Before What's Goin on was released Stevie had already allowed his 2nd contract with Motown to expire, forcing them to re-sign with him in June of 71'. I'll try to find it, there was an article once posted here which was literally from 1971 expounding on the little details in his contract and that interim time between MoMM & WICF, but the onus isn't on me to prove anything. You asserted that everything Stevie did in the 70's are "more or less" due to What's Goin On. care to provide a detailed argument for why you believe this?

Although Stevie Wonder had begun producing his own recordings, Motown still retained control over the content of his albums. Wonder exercised a clause, voiding his contract and knowing that Motown would be forced to accept whatever he gave to them, so he produced "Where I'm Coming From" without any outside interference.

Wonder's contract with Motown ended when he turned 21, which would have been May 1971. Motown was eager to re-sign him, but he decided not to re-sign with any label and essentially locked himself in Mediasound Studios in Manhattan for 10 months with engineer Malcolm Cecil and Bob Margouleff, who referred Wonder to the Moog synthesizer (which played a major role in expanding his musical styles and textures).

When Wonder re-emerged, he had completed "Music From My Mind." However, before he re-signed with Motown, but only if he was allowed to have complete control over his work -- similar to what Marvin Gaye got. Only when Motown saw that Wonder conceiveably could leave did it give Wonder the creative freedom he wanted.

Wonder did some experimentation with some of his pre-golden age music, but like Timmy84 said, he wanted the creative freedom Gaye fought for and received. He simply did not want to be constrained like Gaye and wanted to make more songs in the vein of social relevance and more complete albums, like Gaye. The success of "What's Going On" reinforced Wonder's confidence in taking control of his creative freedom (a similar thought The Jackson 5 had, which led them to leave Motown).

[Edited 2/15/12 16:41pm]

I was hoping you'd offer an argument that actually details in which songs and albums specifically can you see Gaye's imprint on Stevie's work? You point out he wanted to make more socially relevant songs. Ok. So did Sly stone (Everday People, Don't Call me nigger whitey, Stand-Pre What's Going On). So did Curtis Mayfield. (Curtis Album via 1970-pre What's Going On), hell, even The Temptations did(Ball of Confusion 70'), Stevie too(Heaven help us All). So what you talking bout willis?

Timmy84 said:

HuMpThAnG said:

Agree as well

The rest that was mention, doesn't come close, including Riot

Just my

And seeing that "Riot" was an entirely DIFFERENT album altogether, I don't know why it was mentioned.

Because the OP asked what's the best SOUL album ever. You can include funk under the umbrella of soul, and Riot has both ALOT of Soul and ALOT of funk and hell, ALOT of blues.

Timmy84 said:

HuMpThAnG said:

Agree as well

The rest that was mention, doesn't come close, including Riot

Just my

And seeing that "Riot" was an entirely DIFFERENT album altogether, I don't know why it was mentioned.

yup

Sandino said:

Timmy84 said:

And seeing that "Riot" was an entirely DIFFERENT album altogether, I don't know why it was mentioned.

Because the OP asked what's the best SOUL album ever. You can include funk under the umbrella of soul, and Riot has both ALOT of Soul and ALOT of funk and hell, ALOT of blues.

Uh no... they're two different albums and they do not, I repeat, do NOT compare.

Sandino said:

Timmy84 said:

^ Yeah but he still was suffering from the Motown repetitiveness. In terms of raw musical ability, he definitely had bright moments in Where I'm Coming From. Signed, Sealed & Delivered was his best "assembly line-era" album. Berry Gordy still didn't trust many of his artists doing their own writing. And Stevie WAS motivated by Marvin after "What's Going On", the single came out. In fact, some of the songs on "Where I'm Coming From" that had a socially conscious concept (Look Around, I Wanna Talk to You, Do Yourself a Favor) seemed to take bits from Marvin and Sly. Other songs had a more Beatles favor or Hitsville sound (Take Up a Course in Happiness). Plus Syreeta Wright was the lyrical writer for Where I'm Coming From.

Na Tim I certainly disagree. Signed, Sealed' has production that is slightly different anything Whitfield, Gordy, HDH or anyone else had done prior; StaxVolt has a more pronounced influence on this album than what Cookie-cutter Motown permitted. The uptempo tracks are far more syncopated, the rhythm section practically revolves around the back beat, unlike Motown which typically played simple 2 & 4 on their singles (Gaye's Ain't No mountain High) and the clavinet here is more funkier than anything Stevie had done with the exception of maybe "you met your match". On We Can Work it out U can hear the archetypal stevie song. Insistent drumming, half open hi-hat. layered vocal accompaniment showcasing his octave range, single-note crunched clav riffs between open intervals, etc etc.

I don't deny Marvin was influential, I just deny that Marvin had as direct and immediate an impact on Stevie's work as what MusicMan seems to be claiming. Stevie didn't have any one influence that pervasive in his work.

And I disagree with you as well. Notice the difference between the sound in SSD and WICF and MIMM... sure it was a gradual development but Stevie still didn't feel in so much control on SSD as he would in WICF. Berry Gordy was pissed with Stevie when he did WICF and even more pissed when he wouldn't sign the slave contract. With SSD, it was a compromise but Stevie after seeing what Marvin did didn't want no more compromises. You can say he did it all on his own but don't think Stevie didn't have any help...

Timmy84 said:

Sandino said:

Na Tim I certainly disagree. Signed, Sealed' has production that is slightly different anything Whitfield, Gordy, HDH or anyone else had done prior; StaxVolt has a more pronounced influence on this album than what Cookie-cutter Motown permitted. The uptempo tracks are far more syncopated, the rhythm section practically revolves around the back beat, unlike Motown which typically played simple 2 & 4 on their singles (Gaye's Ain't No mountain High) and the clavinet here is more funkier than anything Stevie had done with the exception of maybe "you met your match". On We Can Work it out U can hear the archetypal stevie song. Insistent drumming, half open hi-hat. layered vocal accompaniment showcasing his octave range, single-note crunched clav riffs between open intervals, etc etc.

I don't deny Marvin was influential, I just deny that Marvin had as direct and immediate an impact on Stevie's work as what MusicMan seems to be claiming. Stevie didn't have any one influence that pervasive in his work.

And I disagree with you as well. Notice the difference between the sound in SSD and WICF and MIMM... sure it was a gradual development but Stevie still didn't feel in so much control on SSD as he would in WICF. Berry Gordy was pissed with Stevie when he did WICF and even more pissed when he wouldn't sign the slave contract. With SSD, it was a compromise but Stevie after seeing what Marvin did didn't want no more compromises. You can say he did it all on his own but don't think Stevie didn't have any help...

uh huh...

in fact, i think Gordy himself stated that Stevie's mother played a big role in renewing his contract

Overrated? No. It's not my favorite Marvin album (that's definitely I Want You), but it's his most important and resonant album.

HuMpThAnG said:

Timmy84 said:

And I disagree with you as well. Notice the difference between the sound in SSD and WICF and MIMM... sure it was a gradual development but Stevie still didn't feel in so much control on SSD as he would in WICF. Berry Gordy was pissed with Stevie when he did WICF and even more pissed when he wouldn't sign the slave contract. With SSD, it was a compromise but Stevie after seeing what Marvin did didn't want no more compromises. You can say he did it all on his own but don't think Stevie didn't have any help...

uh huh...

in fact, i think Gordy himself stated that Stevie's mother played a big role in renewing his contract

Lula and two mob-looking white lawyers! Let's not forget the impact Syreeta Wright also had in him wanting to assert his independence.

Timmy84 said:

HuMpThAnG said:

uh huh...

in fact, i think Gordy himself stated that Stevie's mother played a big role in renewing his contract

Lula and two mob-looking white lawyers! Let's not forget the impact Syreeta Wright also had in him wanting to assert his independence.

Well, it is Detriot

HuMpThAnG said:

Timmy84 said:

Lula and two mob-looking white lawyers! Let's not forget the impact Syreeta Wright also had in him wanting to assert his independence.

Well, it is Detriot

True. Stevie hired some gangster-looking folks, scared Berry to agreed to Stevie's demand in 1971. The 21-year-old blind dude telling him he wasn't gonna FUCK around. If only Marvin had been as smart to do that. Then again we wouldn't have had the Diana and Marvin album (but that was in Diana's contract, not Marvin's lol).