thebanishedone said:

duccichucka said:

Prove it!

Show us the billboard charts you reference. And then explain why those entrants are

better/worse than those you think the opposite.

in the 60's the beatles,stones,the Jimi Hendrix Expiriance,Cream,Janis Joplin, ruled the charts.do i need to say more?

Yes you do need to say more.

Why is it that nobody in this org seems to be able to form a sound argument? If you make

a claim, be able to support it with facts. Yes, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix,

Cream, and Janis Joplin charted during the 60s. But you must show:

1. How they ruled the charts

Or on another note:

2. Show us the list of all songs that charted during the '60s and the decade you are calling into

question, and then give us an explained reason why music in the '60s was better than the

decade you are comparing.

You've presented a fallacious argument; just because those artists you mentioned charted

during the 60s doesn't mean that they ruled the charts and that their decade of music

was better than another.

Again, show us the Billboard charts of the '60s and the '00s and explain why you hold that

music in the '60s was better.

No more petitio principii arguments!

duccichucka said:

thebanishedone said:

duccichucka said: in the 60's the beatles,stones,the Jimi Hendrix Expiriance,Cream,Janis Joplin, ruled the charts.do i need to say more?

Yes you do need to say more.

Why is it that nobody in this org seems to be able to form a sound argument? If you make

a claim, be able to support it with facts. Yes, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix,

Cream, and Janis Joplin charted during the 60s. But you must show:

1. How they ruled the charts

Or on another note:

2. Show us the list of all songs that charted during the '60s and the decade you are calling into

question, and then give us an explained reason why music in the '60s was better than the

decade you are comparing.

You've presented a fallacious argument; just because those artists you mentioned charted

during the 60s doesn't mean that they ruled the charts and that their decade of music

was better than another.

Again, show us the Billboard charts of the '60s and the '00s and explain why you hold that

music in the '60s was better.

No more petitio principii arguments!

You want it? you got it.

february 10th 1967

The Top Ten Hits on Billboard on this Day in 1967

1. I'm a Believer by the Monkees
2. Georgy Girl by the Seekers
3. Kind of a Drag by the Buckinghams
4. Ruby Tuesday by the Rolling Stones
5. (We Ain't Got) Nothin' Yet by the Blues Magoos
6. Tell It Like It Is by Aaron Neville
7. 98.6 by Keith
8. Snoopy Vs. the Red Baron by the Royal Guardsmen
9. Love Is Here and Now You're Gone by the Supremes
10. The Beat Goes On by Sonny & Cher

july 1967:

The Top Ten Hits on Billboard on this Day in 1967

1. Groovin' by the Young Rascals
2. Respect by Aretha Franklin
3. She'd Rather Be with Me by the Turtles
4. Windy by the Association
5. Little Bit O' Soul by Music Explosion
6. San Francisco "Wear Some Flowers in Your Hair" by Scott McKenzie
7. Somebody to Love by Jefferson Airplane
8. Can't Take My Eyes Off You by Frankie Valli
9. Sunday Will Never Be the Same by Spanky and Our Gang
10. Let's Live for Today by the Grass Roots

december 1967 :

The Top Ten Hits on Billboard on this Day in 1967

1. Daydream Believer by the Monkees
2. I Heard It through the Grapevine by Gladys Knight & the Pips
3. Hello Goodbye by the Beatles
4. I Second That Emotion by Smokey Robinson & the Miracles
5. The Rain, the Park & Other Things by the Cowsills
6. Incense and Peppermints by the Strawberry Alarm Clock
7. I Say a Little Prayer by Dionne Warwick
8. Boogaloo Down Broadway by Fantastic Johnny C.
9. In and Out of Love by Diana Ross & the Supremes
10. You Better Sit Down Kids by Cher

january 1968:

The Top Ten Hits on Billboard on this Day in 1968

1. Judy in Disguise (with Glasses) John Fred & His Playboy Band
2. Chain of Fools by Aretha Franklin
3. Hello Goodbye by the Beatles
4. Woman, Woman by the Union Gap
5. Green Tambourine by the Lemon Pipers
6. Daydream Believer by the Monkees
7. Bend Me, Shape Me by American Breed
8. I Second That Emotion by Smokey Robinson & the Miracles
9. I Heard It through the Grapevine by Gladys Knight & the Pips
10. If I Could Build My Whole World Around You by Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell

december 1968:

The Top Ten Hits on Billboard on this Day in 1968

1. I Heard It through the Grapevine by Marvin Gaye
2. Love Child by Diana Ross & the Supremes
3. For Once in My Life by Stevie Wonder
4. Abraham, Martin and John by Dion
5. Wichita Lineman by Glen Campbell
6. Stormy by Classics IV
7. Who's Making Love by Johnnie Taylor
8. Both Sides Now by Judy Collins
9. I Love How You Love Me by Bobby Vinton
10. Magic Carpet Ride by Steppenwolf

early 1969 :

The Top Ten Hits on Billboard on this Day in 1969

1. Everyday People by Sly & the Family Stone
2. Crimson & Clover by Tommy James & the Shondells
3. Touch Me by the Doors
4. Build Me Up Buttercup by the Foundations
5. Worst That Could Happen by the Brooklyn Bridge
6. Can I Change My Mind by Tyrone Davis
7. You Showed Me by the Turtles
8. I Heard It through the Grapevine by Marvin Gaye
9. Hang 'Em High by Booker T. & the Mg's
10. I'm Gonna Make You Love Me by Diana Ross & the Supremes & the Temptations

or look at the 80's january charts 1981:

anuary 31, 1981
LW #3: Blondie "The Tide is High"
LW #2: Neil Diamond "Love on the Rocks"
LW #1: John Lennon "(Just Like) Starting Over"
40 -- LTD - Shine On (40)
39 -- The Blues Brothers - Who's Making Love (39)
38 24 Olivia Newton-John & Cliff Richard - Suddenly (20)
37 38 Teena Marie - I Need Your Lovin' (37)
36 -- Pat Benatar - Treat Me Right (18)
35 20 Kenny Rogers - Lady (1)
34 40 The Alan Parsons Project - Games People Play (16)
33 35 The Michael Stanley Band - He Can't Love You (33)
AT40 Archives: From January 1964 - Bobby Vinton "There! I've Said it Again", the 82nd #1 song of the 60s
Flashback Extra: Terri Gibbs "Somebody's Knockin' "
32 -- Neil Diamond - Hello Again (6)
31 36 Ronnie Milsap - Smokey Mountain Rain (24)
30 13 Heart - Tell it Like it Is (8)
LDD: Jim Croce "I'll Have to Say I Love You in a Song" from Jim in Nova Scotia, Canada to Cathy, a librarian who he only sees on Mondays and who he's too shy to approach...so this is his way of letting her know how he feels about her.
29 32 Fred Knoblock & Susan Anton - Killin' Time (28)
28 34 Cliff Richard - A Little in Love (17)
27 37 Don McLean - Crying (5)
26 10 The Police - De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da (10)
25 30 The Jacksons - Heartbreak Hotel (22)
24 05 Bruce Springsteen - Hungry Heart (5)
23 25 The Eagles - Seven Bridges Road (21)
22 31 Styx - The Best of Times (3)
Flashback Extra: Blondie "Rapture"
21 26 Stevie Wonder - I Ain't Gonna Stand For It (11)
20 22 Tierra - Together (18)
19 23 REO Speedwagon - Keep on Loving You (1)
18 21 ABBA - The Winner Takes it All (8)
17 27 John Lennon - Woman (2)
16 17 Boz Scaggs - Miss Sun (14)
15 15 Andy Gibb - Time is Time (15)
14 19 Dan Fogelberg - Same Old Lang Syne (9)
13 04 Barbra Streisand & Barry Gibb - Guilty (3)
12 14 Steely Dan - Hey Nineteen (10)

I think that today pop music is better then it what was on charts during 00/08 period.

I'll argument why

The melodies are back.you can actually hum these new songs.

The music on the charts is very 80's in sound but

taken to the next level considering production.

Some of the current acts have real talent.

Listen to Lady Gaga piano version of The Edge

of Glory from Howard Stern show.

And sax solo played by late great Clarence Clemmons

of the E Street band plays his final killer solo on the studio version.

Tell me that isn't real artist making real music ,

not some untalented Britney Spears.

or take song California Gurls by Katty Perry for example.

That song have great beat and funky bass groove.

California Gurls is much better then lazy shit hop of 50 cent for example.

Tell me 10 nice pop melodies from the 00's and i'll think it will be hard to find.

I love r'n'b and some of the hip hop but in the late 90's those two genres were fused into some of the dullest music that was dominating the charts

for more then a decade.And the bluye print was thugg rapper,lame beat

and half naked chick

singing the chorus if there were any at all.

Recent artist on the charts are more like musicians in love with 80's synth sounds influenced by the likes of

OMD,Yazzo,Human League,Eurythmics and the early 80's sound and i find that to be a big improvement from the dull 00's

thebanishedone said:

I think that today pop music is better then it what was on charts during 00/08 period.

I'll argument why

The melodies are back.you can actually hum these new songs.

The music on the charts is very 80's in sound but

taken to the next level considering production.

Some of the current acts have real talent.

Listen to Lady Gaga piano version of The Edge

of Glory from Howard Stern show.

And sax solo played by late great Clarence Clemmons

of the E Street band plays his final killer solo on the studio version.

Tell me that isn't real artist making real music ,

not some untalented Britney Spears.

or take song California Gurls by Katty Perry for example.

That song have great beat and funky bass groove.

California Gurls is much better then lazy shit hop of 50 cent for example.

Tell me 10 nice pop melodies from the 00's and i'll think it will be hard to find.

I love r'n'b and some of the hip hop but in the late 90's those two genres were fused into some of the dullest music that was dominating the charts

for more then a decade.And the bluye print was thugg rapper,lame beat

and half naked chick

singing the chorus if there were any at all.

Recent artist on the charts are more like musicians in love with 80's synth sounds influenced by the likes of

OMD,Yazzo,Human League,Eurythmics and the early 80's sound and i find that to be a big improvement from the dull 00's

It is great to see OMD, Human League & Eurythmics get a lot of love.....

But come on i adore Clarence but that sax solo was genric as hell. Really wasn't anythign special about it, it's a nice touch to the song. But it's not orgasmic by any means

Gunsnhalen said:

thebanishedone said:

I think that today pop music is better then it what was on charts during 00/08 period.

I'll argument why

The melodies are back.you can actually hum these new songs.

The music on the charts is very 80's in sound but

taken to the next level considering production.

Some of the current acts have real talent.

Listen to Lady Gaga piano version of The Edge

of Glory from Howard Stern show.

And sax solo played by late great Clarence Clemmons

of the E Street band plays his final killer solo on the studio version.

Tell me that isn't real artist making real music ,

not some untalented Britney Spears.

or take song California Gurls by Katty Perry for example.

That song have great beat and funky bass groove.

California Gurls is much better then lazy shit hop of 50 cent for example.

Tell me 10 nice pop melodies from the 00's and i'll think it will be hard to find.

I love r'n'b and some of the hip hop but in the late 90's those two genres were fused into some of the dullest music that was dominating the charts

for more then a decade.And the bluye print was thugg rapper,lame beat

and half naked chick

singing the chorus if there were any at all.

Recent artist on the charts are more like musicians in love with 80's synth sounds influenced by the likes of

OMD,Yazzo,Human League,Eurythmics and the early 80's sound and i find that to be a big improvement from the dull 00's

It is great to see OMD, Human League & Eurythmics get a lot of love.....

But come on i adore Clarence but that sax solo was genric as hell. Really wasn't anythign special about it, it's a nice touch to the song. But it's not orgasmic by any means

Well it's very emotional,it's not Jungle Land or Prove it all Night but it's nice.

"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." Obi-Wan Kenobi (1983)

namepeace said:

"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." Obi-Wan Kenobi (1983)

this

thebanishedone said:

Music elitist will say otherwise but i think that current synth pop is much more interesting then faux r'n'b. Songs contain stronger melodies,much better and faster beats and great synth sounds. Jesse J song Domino have rhythm guitar as dominant instrument.when have you heard guitar on pop charts? Lady Gaga and Katty Perry have sax solos in their songs. Everything is more interesting that lame slow r'n'b with lame rappers.

Say no to crack !!

I don't agree. It was more diverse years ago, everything sounds the same now though I think this will shift.

No. Don't think so. The song i just posted by Micheal Sembello is better than any pop song

i hear today.

phunkdaddy said:

No. Don't think so. The song i just posted by Micheal Sembello is better than any pop song

i hear today.

Yes it is,but i said that today's music on charts is better then what was going on late 90's -00's.

nothing can touch the music from 60's 70's and 80's.

lot of crap even then but that crap was masterpiece compared to the standards of today

thebanishedone said:

phunkdaddy said:

No. Don't think so. The song i just posted by Micheal Sembello is better than any pop song

i hear today.

Yes it is,but i said that today's music on charts is better then what was going on late 90's -00's.

nothing can touch the music from 60's 70's and 80's.

lot of crap even then but that crap was masterpiece compared to the standards of today

I personally hate all this Dr. Luke/Max Martin Euro-Pop crap that's on the market right now...and I'm right in the middle of the core age group that it's targeted at (I'm 20). Besides, all these new artists are fluent in the language of Payola, so their chart numbers aren't a big deal.

I agree that music from the past had way more variety. Maybe some of it was bad, but you at least had a selection of what flavor of badness you wanted.

And is it really important to be so technically perfect? A lot of the soul and heart has gone from music because the artists and producers are more focused on it sounding perfect (often using AutoTune) than really reaching their fans emotionally. I've watched docs and read books where older producers would talk about how they told their artists to leave a couple imperfections in their vocal performance so it could sound realistic and human.

I often find it hard to even hear the melodies of today's pop songs because they're so obscured by blaring synths and tons of overproduction.

:KanyeShrug:

Pop music is weak in general. Yes, even in the 60s it was still weak and dull. I don't give a shit if there were real insturments being played or not. A dull song is a dull song, no matter if it's a drum machine or not.

And can someone give me an example of this Euro-pop stuff everyone is talking about? I don't listen to top-40 radio (occasionally Adele), so I don't know abou it. That "Party Rock Anthem" by LMFAO was pretty big, is that what you guys are talking about? That song is annoying as hell btw. I only know if from that cell phone comercial .

Terrib3Towel said:

Pop music is weak in general. Yes, even in the 60s it was still weak and dull. I don't give a shit if there were real insturments being played or not. A dull song is a dull song, no matter if it's a drum machine or not.

And can someone give me an example of this Euro-pop stuff everyone is talking about? I don't listen to top-40 radio (occasionally Adele), so I don't know abou it. That "Party Rock Anthem" by LMFAO was pretty big, is that what you guys are talking about? That song is annoying as hell btw. I only know if from that cell phone comercial .

EVERYTHING on the charts today is Euro-Pop. Katy Perry's "Firework", everything Lady Gaga ever has done/is doing/will ever do, Rihanna's "We Found Love", etc. It's full of loud annoying signature synths, tons of autotune, more of a club mix type feel, is usually the same four chords, and is just general crap.

Oh ok, I gotcha. Like I said pop music is plain weak.

thebanishedone said:

Music elitist will say otherwise but i think that current synth pop is much more interesting then faux r'n'b. Songs contain stronger melodies,much better and faster beats and great synth sounds. Jesse J song Domino have rhythm guitar as dominant instrument.when have you heard guitar on pop charts? Lady Gaga and Katty Perry have sax solos in their songs. Everything is more interesting that lame slow r'n'b with lame rappers.

Jessie j is so annoying -however I agree that music in the main is better than the 1990's if that's what u mean. That era was so slick and creepy-with loads of euro beats etc. Blur/radiohead were good but that didn't define the times. However I think it is possibly that things are a bit more sophisticated now and fashions change but I am 39 and hated the 1990's with a passion.

CynicKill said:

namepeace said:

Prince and D'Angelo weren't charting well in 1997, were they? I can't remember.

I wasn't even thinking about the timeline when I wrote that. The thread is about how great music is today. I was just pointing out that I can't think of anyone that is truly great. I can't think of anyone from 1997. Can you?

I agree but I feel the difference is that it could never happen again. Music is just one of a multimedia stream. Yes people get obsessed with artist as we once did but the choice (or at least the way it is sold to you) is endless. The artist of old could nolonger be nurtured ROI would take precedent and with the current business model no individual record label could play the game differently. I like to think I have objectivity and taste but if i was 13 yrs old toaday I don't know how I would feel. For example my niece thinks she knows everything about music and rates Beyonce-yet whe I was 15 I would have just heard extreme commerciality and rightly or wrongly rejected it. I feel generationally this one has accepted the mainstream far more extremely.

I actually agree. Even though today's pop music still sounds horrible, I have noticed that it does seem faster than it had been which makes it better. It still sounds horrible though but it's better. It kinda reminds me of music that I used to hear in the white gay club. It's like they were trying to copy off what the black gay club was doing at the time but didn't quite have the rhythm and funkiness to achieve it. Kinda like Depeche Mode vs. Black Box. Not saying they were copying off Black Box but just giving an example of what the music sounded like in both the white and black gay club years ago. Two forms of dance music but completely different sounding with one less funky than the other. But it was tolerable to be in the same room with.

As for R&B though, I haven't noticed anything better. Still the same ole shit hop, adult contemporary, and neo stool that it has been since forever. I can't even stand to be 5 minutes in the same room with it.

.

.

.

[Edited 2/9/12 10:24am]

Ohh!!! Puuhhllease! At least in 1996, people sang their own songs, now its all this Feat crap which usually means some cretin swearing their head off in some rapping. A song is not art because it has "Yo this is my bitch, shakin her booty and shit, me and homeiz ride with a clip, don't fuck with us or we will spray u with an aroma of gat smoke" can be inserted in a love ballad, thats what most of this feat crap is. Either that or some sex kitten squeaking along with "Baby baby, uh ohh baby"

MY HISTORICAL PERIODS OF CHART MUSIC (Warning - generalised, there are exceptions in every period)

1900 -1954 - Classic real music 9Ie boring Middle class shit with crooners, although Jazz, swing and early R and B much better 5/10

1954 - 59 - Rock and Roll 8/10

1960 - 66 - Catchy pop tunes 8/10

1967 - 75 - The peak of rock, instrumentalists, singer songwriters, soul and R and B gold. 10/10

1977 - 80 The edge of disco and funky pop musci, not high art but enjoyable 7/10

1981 - 1987 - New romantics, synth pop, early Madonna, Prince and MJ, not high art but still funky and catchy 6/10

1988 - 1992 - Early rap and dance, enjoyable but culturally lower quality 4/10

1993 - 1997 Middle rap, G Funk, much lower quality, use of swearing and bad music overall, beginnings of sexy ho singers, ghetto mentality, start of "Featuring Shaniqua and Laguns dogg etc". Puff Daddy's and Jay Z's arrival the death knell of quality chart music. 2/10

1998 - 2012 Domination of music by low quality rap music, bling bling rap, sexy girl ho singing, materialistic death rap, low quality rock music with shock metal bands, and some dull MOR music like Maroon 5. Sampled beats and no originality. Musicians openly promoting drugs in music like Pars and Jay Z. 0/10

Lady Gaga, yes. Adele, maybe. Everyone else, hell no!!!!! Lady Gaga is very underrated in my eyes. Oh and this "faux R&B" pleaaaase! R. Kelly is one of the best sex songwritters ever! Rap has gone down hill too since around 2000. Now there isn't even R&B, R. Kelly has sadly appeared to have moved on.

Adorecream said:

Ohh!!! Puuhhllease! At least in 1996, people sang their own songs, now its all this Feat crap which usually means some cretin swearing their head off in some rapping. A song is not art because it has "Yo this is my bitch, shakin her booty and shit, me and homeiz ride with a clip, don't fuck with us or we will spray u with an aroma of gat smoke" can be inserted in a love ballad, thats what most of this feat crap is. Either that or some sex kitten squeaking along with "Baby baby, uh ohh baby"

MY HISTORICAL PERIODS OF CHART MUSIC (Warning - generalised, there are exceptions in every period)

1900 -1954 - Classic real music 9Ie boring Middle class shit with crooners, although Jazz, swing and early R and B much better 5/10

1954 - 59 - Rock and Roll 8/10

1960 - 66 - Catchy pop tunes 8/10

1967 - 75 - The peak of rock, instrumentalists, singer songwriters, soul and R and B gold. 10/10

1977 - 80 The edge of disco and funky pop musci, not high art but enjoyable 7/10

1981 - 1987 - New romantics, synth pop, early Madonna, Prince and MJ, not high art but still funky and catchy 6/10

1988 - 1992 - Early rap and dance, enjoyable but culturally lower quality 4/10

1993 - 1997 Middle rap, G Funk, much lower quality, use of swearing and bad music overall, beginnings of sexy ho singers, ghetto mentality, start of "Featuring Shaniqua and Laguns dogg etc". Puff Daddy's and Jay Z's arrival the death knell of quality chart music. 2/10

1998 - 2012 Domination of music by low quality rap music, bling bling rap, sexy girl ho singing, materialistic death rap, low quality rock music with shock metal bands, and some dull MOR music like Maroon 5. Sampled beats and no originality. Musicians openly promoting drugs in music like Pars and Jay Z. 0/10

smoothcriminal12 said:

Adorecream said:

Ohh!!! Puuhhllease! At least in 1996, people sang their own songs, now its all this Feat crap which usually means some cretin swearing their head off in some rapping. A song is not art because it has "Yo this is my bitch, shakin her booty and shit, me and homeiz ride with a clip, don't fuck with us or we will spray u with an aroma of gat smoke" can be inserted in a love ballad, thats what most of this feat crap is. Either that or some sex kitten squeaking along with "Baby baby, uh ohh baby"

MY HISTORICAL PERIODS OF CHART MUSIC (Warning - generalised, there are exceptions in every period)

1900 -1954 - Classic real music 9Ie boring Middle class shit with crooners, although Jazz, swing and early R and B much better 5/10

1954 - 59 - Rock and Roll 8/10

1960 - 66 - Catchy pop tunes 8/10

1967 - 75 - The peak of rock, instrumentalists, singer songwriters, soul and R and B gold. 10/10

1977 - 80 The edge of disco and funky pop musci, not high art but enjoyable 7/10

1981 - 1987 - New romantics, synth pop, early Madonna, Prince and MJ, not high art but still funky and catchy 6/10

1988 - 1992 - Early rap and dance, enjoyable but culturally lower quality 4/10

1993 - 1997 Middle rap, G Funk, much lower quality, use of swearing and bad music overall, beginnings of sexy ho singers, ghetto mentality, start of "Featuring Shaniqua and Laguns dogg etc". Puff Daddy's and Jay Z's arrival the death knell of quality chart music. 2/10

1998 - 2012 Domination of music by low quality rap music, bling bling rap, sexy girl ho singing, materialistic death rap, low quality rock music with shock metal bands, and some dull MOR music like Maroon 5. Sampled beats and no originality. Musicians openly promoting drugs in music like Pars and Jay Z. 0/10

Same here

Adorecream said:

start of "Featuring Shaniqua

thebanishedone said:

duccichucka said:

Prove it!

Show us the billboard charts you reference. And then explain why those entrants are

better/worse than those you think the opposite.

in the 60's the beatles,stones,the Jimi Hendrix Expiriance,Cream,Janis Joplin, ruled the charts.do i need to say more?

You do realise that Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix Experience both only had 1 top 40 hit right?

aardvark15 said:

thebanishedone said:

duccichucka said: in the 60's the beatles,stones,the Jimi Hendrix Expiriance,Cream,Janis Joplin, ruled the charts.do i need to say more?

You do realise that Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix Experience both only had 1 top 40 hit right?

Are you sure?

Experiance's first album was the best selling album of 1967 and containd most of the Hendrix well known songs.

simultaneously touring throughout England: "Hey Joe"/"Stone Free", which was released in December 1966 through Polydor Records because Track Records was not yet operational; "Purple Haze"/"51st Anniversary", released in March 1967 and was the first release by Track Records on a special white label; and "The Wind Cries Mary"/"Highway Chile" which was released in May 1967 and is said to be written by Hendrix for his long time love, Kathy Etchingham (whose middle name is Mary), after he was left alone at home when she stormed out after a fight.^[4] All three of these singles reached the Top 10 in the UK.