And no, I'm not trying to start an argument, I sincerely wanna know the reason why people revere them so much.

I listened to their discography from Can't Buy A Thrill to Gaucho, and while I dug them, I found their production to be slick, waaaaay too slick(ok maybe not in the early years, but Aja & Gaucho seem to be gravitated toward the smooth jazz territory - even though the subgenre wasn't around then). The MOST troubling thing for me about them though is, Donal Fagen, I can't shake off the "cheesy lounge singer" image outta my head whenever I hear him sing, I might've appreciated their material more had he not be the lead singer.

Yet, they seem to have a great following(or maybe because of those reasons, they have a great following); basically this is a "tell me what you love about Steely Dan" thread.

hehe, a lounge singer if ever there was one

okay, I get where your're coming from still i disagree. yes, they became more and more perfectionists over the years, but same is true for let's say Q, EWF or Stevie. so what? I can imagine worse things happening to someones music

but to answer your question, the major point is the incredible high level of songwriting, an almost filler free discography not many others have accomplished

Harlepolis said:

And no, I'm not trying to start an argument, I sincerely wanna know the reason why people revere them so much.

I listened to their discography from Can't Buy A Thrill to Gaucho, and while I dug them, I found their production to be slick, waaaaay too slick(ok maybe not in the early years, but Aja & Gaucho seem to be gravitated toward the smooth jazz territory - even though the subgenre wasn't around then). The MOST troubling thing for me about them though is, Donal Fagen, I can't shake off the "cheesy lounge singer" image outta my head whenever I hear him sing, I might've appreciated their material more had he not be the lead singer.

Yet, they seem to have a great following(or maybe because of those reasons, they have a great following); basically this is a "tell me what you love about Steely Dan" thread.

I know jackshit about them other than "Do It Again". And if that's any indication of the quality of the rest of their work, they're a hell of a band.

I used to just love them. I loved their smart, cooler-than-you, tongue-in-cheek humor and the legendary tales of their perfectionism in the studio.

But the last couple records, and the latest Fagen Morph the Cat thing, left me thinking that maybe I'm done. I just can't relate, and the smooth jazz isn't doing it for me like it did 20 years ago. I wish it still did.

The combination of their poetic, often acerbic/absurdist lyricism, and their flawless musicianship, they're my favorite rock band. They're influenced by jazz/fusion, sure, but they're a rock band just as informed by the blues as any other rock band.

As for their latest work, it may not be their best, but they're far from the only band who's been together more than 20 years to be guilty of that. The fact they can still make enjoyable music after that long is accomplishment enough.

And they put on one hell of a show. Seth Rogen jokes aside, they've got a broad following, largely for that reason.

breese said:

I used to just love them. I loved their smart, cooler-than-you, tongue-in-cheek humor and the legendary tales of their perfectionism in the studio.

But the last couple records, and the latest Fagen Morph the Cat thing, left me thinking that maybe I'm done. I just can't relate, and the smooth jazz isn't doing it for me like it did 20 years ago. I wish it still did.

I think Morph the Cat is amazing, for me even the best of the Fagen solo trilogy. and believe me, that means something !!

On a technical level I can really appreciate their seventies albums but I don't really have an emotional connection to their music. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to get them?

And yes, Eminem was absolutely robbed for album of the year! Two Against Nature was a fairly mediocre album.

namepeace said:

The combination of their poetic, often acerbic/absurdist lyricism, and their flawless musicianship, they're my favorite rock band. They're influenced by jazz/fusion, sure, but they're a rock band just as informed by the blues as any other rock band.

As for their latest work, it may not be their best, but they're far from the only band who's been together more than 20 years to be guilty of that. The fact they can still make enjoyable music after that long is accomplishment enough.

And they put on one hell of a show. Seth Rogen jokes aside, they've got a broad following, largely for that reason.

Appearantly, they got a few mentions in George Carlin's stand-up routine as well

I'm not down on jazz/fusion, hell I'm one of its enthusiasts, I prefer Joni's music when she moved from the folk thing and embraced the fusion scene of the 70s.

And surprisingly, their lyrics was the factor that drew me in, which is rare in my case because paying attention to lyrics usually falls in the bottom of the list when it comes to how I listen to music - and of course, "Black Cow" is a fave for anybody who digs the breaks.

I guess you could say, I'm a casual listener, but I'm kinda surprised by how strong of a following they have, and thought maybe I was missing something, I could def understand it now if their live shows have promise.

musicanship and intelligence in writing

then there's the live aspect already mentioned

the cleanest mix you'll ever here - "do it again" - "peg" - great live band - great studio discs - great stoner music - what's not to like

We about to fall out Harle.

badujunkie said:

the cleanest mix you'll ever here - "do it again" - "peg" - great live band - great studio discs - great stoner music - what's not to like

If "Do It Again" is any indication of their personal views and the general subject matter of their work as a whole then they actually seem to be warning against hedonism, drug-use and self-destructive behavior... which makes it kind of ironic that people get high to their work.

Then again they say that most people don't actually pay attention to the lyrics of songs...which is a damn shame.

dan addict here .. most i dig some xceptions .. its just like anything does it speak to u or doesnt it.

theyre music wasnt like anything id heard before. i guess i call it jazz rock idk like chieli minucci or al dimeola.

Dren5 said:

badujunkie said:

the cleanest mix you'll ever here - "do it again" - "peg" - great live band - great studio discs - great stoner music - what's not to like

If "Do It Again" is any indication of their personal views and the general subject matter of their work as a whole then they actually seem to be warning against hedonism, drug-use and self-destructive behavior... which makes it kind of ironic that people get high to their work.

Then again they say that most people don't actually pay attention to the lyrics of songs...which is a damn shame.

oh please - Aja is about a drug trip!

It's like trying to explain the intellect of the unexplainable. The emotional payday always exceeded the sum of it's parts with this band. Their technical prowess is sonically autistic......

To those that get it, it's "square peg in a square hole". Everyone else? It's presumptuous & pretentious triffle.

I'm of the former persuasion....

What's the big deal about Steely Dan?!?!?! Maaaaaan......I'm not even messing with this one. If you don't get it, I feel sorry for you.....

Steely Dan playing a bit of Black Cow and snarking on Lord Tariq & Peter Gunz, the rappers who sampled it without permission.

I saw Steely Dan in concert at the Metro in 1973 or late 72 (I can't remember) at the Metro. They were as "tight" live as they were on vinly.

They were the antithesis of the 70's music scene.... anything goes. For one their sound was completely original. They weren't a jazz group, they really weren't a rock band, and I think it pretty lazy to call define them as Jazz Fusion. They just pulled all these other influences from Rock, Be-bop, R&B and created these complex songs. I've always sorta dug how they reworked 12 bar blues progressions in their songs. Brilliant musicians and the lyrics.... wow.

Tittypants said:

What's the big deal about Steely Dan?!?!?! Maaaaaan......I'm not even messing with this one. If you don't get it, I feel sorry for you.....

Yeah, thats real profound

Anyway, you don't need to feel sorry about anybody. If I wasn't curious to see what everybody loves about them, I wouldn't bother posting this thread. And I'm glad I did.

Harlepolis said:

Tittypants said:

What's the big deal about Steely Dan?!?!?! Maaaaaan......I'm not even messing with this one. If you don't get it, I feel sorry for you.....

Yeah, thats real profound

Anyway, you don't need to feel sorry about anybody. If I wasn't curious to see what everybody loves about them, I wouldn't bother posting this thread. And I'm glad I did.

I'm sorry. That was the best I could do @ that moment. Personally, I find them very very dope [I genuinely own everything they've ever made; Group or solo] . I'm a really big fan of their musicianship & multiple melody changes. But hey, to each their own, right?

[Edited 1/26/12 1:33am]

JamFanHot said:

It's like trying to explain the intellect of the unexplainable. The emotional payday always exceeded the sum of it's parts with this band. Their technical prowess is sonically autistic......

To those that get it, it's "square peg in a square hole". Everyone else? It's presumptuous & pretentious triffle.

I'm of the former persuasion....

Yep, I heard both arguments, and I don't care about the presumptuous/pretentiontious accusations(I feel the same way about folks throwing the word "self-indulgent" all willy nilly if they don't understand a certain artist's body of work).

Tittypants said:

Harlepolis said:

Yeah, thats real profound

Anyway, you don't need to feel sorry about anybody. If I wasn't curious to see what everybody loves about them, I wouldn't bother posting this thread. And I'm glad I did.

I'm sorry. That's the best I can do @ that moment. Personally, I find them very very dope [I genuinely own everything they've ever made; Group or solo] . I'm a really big fan of their musicianship & multiple melody changes. But hey, to each their own, right?

I like them too, but my intention was to find out why I felt so indifferent while everybody regard them higher than I do. I get it now.

I put Steely Dan in a category with say.... Rush

I respect the hell out of these like Rush as musicians, Aja & The Royal Storm are amazing records, writing & musicianship wise. Much like Moving Pictures & 2121 is to Rush

But straight up, some of there albums like Rush are effing boring/:, my gosh i respect the musicianship... and i can deal with slow albums. But i feel some of there albums go nowhere, and there just trying to be the most tight band in the arena of rock.

Someone like let's say Van Halen, sometimes they didn't write amazingly deep records but the records kept you interested, fiery solos, melodies & even humor like Dan to. But sometimes Steely's humor is flat & the endless solos & playing go nowhere & get well... boring.

But i respect them a lot!... with that being said i do find them & Rush to be a bit overrated in the realm of rock though album wise

KemiVA said:

Steely Dan playing a bit of Black Cow and snarking on Lord Tariq & Peter Gunz, the rappers who sampled it without permission.

HA! That was funny.

Here's what the reviewers Wilson and Alroy think of them:

http://www.warr.org/noreviews.html

[Edited 1/26/12 1:52am]

rialb said:

Here's what the reviewers Wilson and Alroy think of them:

http://www.warr.org/noreviews.html

Steely Dan
Wilson hates these guys so much you'd think they were Nazis or something. Me, I just think they're really, really boring... (JA)
Wilson's Steely Dan Bedtime Story
Once upon a time, there was a little boy named David who listened to a lot of "classic rock radio." He got to know all of Steely Dan's hits without knowing who they were, or that they were all by the same band, and he found all of them deadly dull ("Hey Nineteen"), annoying ("Boddhisatva") or both ("Reelin' In The Years"). One fine day, he was sitting in a restaurant with Alroy, and what did he hear but their greatest hits CD - David was stunned to realize that just one band had recorded so many songs he hated! And he lived unhappily ever after.

David continued to be exposed to the band over time - just the other week, he sat through a CD of theirs at a social gathering - but his opinion of them never changes. He often finds their production too slick, but mainly he just can't stand the compositions, and has no idea why people are so impressed by their "jazzy" chord progressions.

PS David hates Nazis way more. (DBW)

[Edited 1/26/12 1:52am]

that is rather funny

But those guys got on my nerves, there higher then tho critics who like to shit on a lot of artists... who they never even bothered to listen to an album of. LAME

rialb said:

On a technical level I can really appreciate their seventies albums but I don't really have an emotional connection to their music. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to get them?

And yes, Eminem was absolutely robbed for album of the year! Two Against Nature was a fairly mediocre album.

HEY YO!

Hold up one minute.

I just had to reply to this.

Two Against Nature is an absolute killer of an album from Steely Dan. Eminem did not stand a chance againt one of the greatest bands of all time.

One of the few times the Grammys have gotten it right. As if you can give a Album of the year award to someone who dosent sing or play instruments lol.

I love Eminem but please your comparing in music terms Primary School Level (Eminem) to PHD Level (Steely Dan)

BTW I just saw Steely Dan in Melbourne at Rod Laver Arena with Steve Winwood. Steely Dan were right up there interms of the best acts i have ever seen live. I have been to quite a few. Steely is on par with Prince IMO. Although I love Prince more

[Edited 1/26/12 7:04am]

Actually, it's the lounge singer feel that I like about their music. It makes me feel like I'm sitting in a lounge on the ground floor of a nice hotel, having a few drinks, and trying to work a stranger or three and take them upstairs.

....

You know that old saying, that writing about music is like dancing about architecture? Tht's how I feel, especially when trying to write about Steely Dan.

It's true that they take difficult music and somehow make it sound smooth, with Fagen's shaky, dark hipster voice, then use it to mask subversive or arcane lyrics..but, as others have mentioned , it's really a combination of feels, a weird mix boiled down to sound fairly easy--Radio was filled with these pleasant sounding tunes, as Fagen sang about Drug deals, Sex, Perversion, Time travel, Fascism; LSD, Heroin -- or just about growing old... , (they did take their name from a dildo in the William Burroughs novel, "Naked Lunch")...

--some tracks are blues, but with inverted and modulated chords (Like Peg, Chained Lightning, and Pretzel Logic), and others are ...well, like this, a combination of styles:

Your Gold Teeth II

or free form, combined with complex chord changes like this--

AJA (with Wayne Shorter and Steve Gadd)

and I think that Fagen's vocals (to me) sound more like seedy, edgy New York wiseguy in the mid -seventies...Taxi Driver era, rather than the new Post-Giuliani- Disney/Times Square era...

Keep in mind, all of this used to get play on Progressive rock stations, Pop stations, R&B stations---but these days, you're most likely to only hear their music on "Smooth Jazz" stations --all I can say is , I wish most smooth jazz sounded like this! I don't even think somebody like Kenny G could ever get through the changes on something like AJA,

But, having said all that, it boils down to--you either like it, or you don't-not for every taste.

Pat Metheny once said that people rate music by the way it makes them feel, the way it speaks to them inside--- and in the end that has very little to do with how much techique or complexity a musician has, or doesn't have--those that feel it, like it -- those that don't simply move onto something else...

Fagen and Becker were perfectionists in the studio, however, with multiple musicians doing multiple takes--so whatever it is, it isn't loose.. and that's probably what a lot of music fans don't like about SD....probably a little too precise for many folks who prefer a looser feel....

...

[Edited 1/26/12 11:28am]