Terrib3Towel said:

vainandy said:

I've never heard of her.

She's responsible for some of Whitney's hits

So were these guys:

Michael Masser (oddly no one said anything about Diana Ross cheapening black music when "Do You Know Where You're Going To" hit the airwaves

Narada Michael Walden (he's also the guy that polished Aretha's Detroit meets Memphis meets Delta soul/blues in the '80s)

Narada actually basically produced most of Whitney's first two albums so really he's the guy to blame honestly.

vainandy said:

kitbradley said:

The thing that I orginally respected about Anita is when she first crossed over in '86, she did it on her own terms. She didn't have to give in and sound Pop/Rock or record a bunch of Micheal Masser-sounding songs to crossover to a white audience. She maintained her original R&B sound and succeeded. The only drawback was she saw what worked and decided to stick with the same formula with pretty much each album. She never ventured outside of her comfort zone. Her last 3 albums are pretty much interchangeable to me. Nothing distinguishes one from the other.

I never considered her crossover, just extremely dull adult contemporary R&B. It even slightly resembled jazz to me but not sexy after midnight sounding jazz but dull sounding jazz. Very "family friendly" sounding.

However, the first time I heard her in 1986 with "You better watch yourself, you'll fall and hurt yourself one day", I thought she was the country singer from the late 1970s who had a song called "Somebody's knockin' should I let 'em in. Lord it's the devil, would you look at him". Anita's song sounded similar to it both melodywise and voice wise. I heard it on one of our R&B stations which was 99.7 on the dial. There was a country station on the dial at around 98.5. This was back before stereos had digital numbers, it was a scale with a red line to tune in stations. Plenty of times, I would flip over to the station and a commercial would be on and I wouldn't notice that I had it on the country station until the music started back. There was that fine a line on the dial between the two stations. When I heard Anita Baker's song for the first time, I thought I had it on the country station and slightly turned the dial and got even more country. Then, I started fearing that the R&B station had changed it's format. I waited until the end of the song and then an R&B song from another artist came on that I recognized but I just knew that I had my radio tuned to that country station by accident.

Timmy84 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

vainandy said: She's responsible for some of Whitney's hits

So were these guys:

Michael Masser (oddly no one said anything about Diana Ross cheapening black music when "Do You Know Where You're Going To" hit the airwaves

Narada Michael Walden (he's also the guy that polished Aretha's Detroit meets Memphis meets Delta soul/blues in the '80s)

Narada actually basically produced most of Whitney's first two albums so really he's the guy to blame honestly.

Of course not, because it was a good song. Plus, look at all that funk that was going on at the time right alongside it and continued on for more than a decade later. The song didn't change or even threaten anything good.

.

.

.

[Edited 2/2/12 9:58am]

That Squeeze Me song by Anita got me ROCKIN in my chair.... I never heard that one before.

Plus Who's Zoomin Who and How Will I Know is clearly by the same writer and has the same structure

kitbradley said:

SoulAlive said:

I bet that there are Notice that,on the second album,only one of Kashif's songs made it onto the record ("Where You Are").I bet he submitted more songs that Clive rejected because they were too "soulful".

I'm willing to bet money on it! Kind of reminds me of Mimi. Tommy Motola rejected some songs from appearing on "Musicbox" because he said they made the album sound too urban. He didn't want another "Emotions". Thank goodness a couple of the rejected songs showed up as B-sides. It just amazes me how those music execs didn't want certain black artists to sound too black. But, I guess they knew what was best because boring meant bigger sales. "Whitney" turned out to be Nippy's best selling album and the same with Mimi's "Musicbox".

Not true. Whitney Houston was her best selling album not counting The Bodyguard.

vainandy said:

Timmy84 said:

So were these guys:

Michael Masser (oddly no one said anything about Diana Ross cheapening black music when "Do You Know Where You're Going To" hit the airwaves

Narada Michael Walden (he's also the guy that polished Aretha's Detroit meets Memphis meets Delta soul/blues in the '80s)

Narada actually basically produced most of Whitney's first two albums so really he's the guy to blame honestly.

Of course not, because it was a good song. Plus, look at all that funk that was going on at the time right alongside it and continued on for more than a decade later. The song didn't change or even threaten anything good.

.

.

.

[Edited 2/2/12 9:58am]

Because it's a damn good song.

kitbradley said:

Although Nippy is mostly a Pop artist, I think this is probably the most Soulful performance I've heard from her. I'm surprised Clive even allowed it on the "Whitney" album!

'You Give Good Love' is much more soulful and to this day gets more recurrent airplay on r&b stations. Even 'You're still My Man' is more soulful than 'Just the Lonely'.

I'd have to say 'Oh Yes' aka 'Say Yes' produced by Missy or the Lauryn Hill produced, Stevie Wonder remake, 'I was made to love him' ranks as her most soulful songs to me and both are off the acclaimed, 'My Love is Your Love' cd.

I'll still love "You Give Good Love" for the rest of my natural life. That still endears me to Whitney... that first album is phenomenal.

I don't think it would have been much different at all.

I don't thin she changed music. She just made it really big in a genre that was already established by people like Patti Austin, Peabo Bryson, James Ingram, Jeffrey Osbourne, Luther, etc...

R&B balladeers were already a pretty big market, that is how she came to be in the first place

Speaking of some soulful stuff from Whitney:

Timmy84 said:

Speaking of some soulful stuff from Whitney:

Yes, this song as well with Tweet helping out on background vocals is much more soulful than 'Just the Lonely'. It is basically, 'Say Yes' part 2

Even 'Salute' penned by R. Kelly on 'I Look to You' is infinitely more soulful than 'Just the Lonely'

^ "It is basically, 'Say Yes, part 2'", that's what I thought when I first heard it.

Timmy84 said:

I'll still love "You Give Good Love" for the rest of my natural life. That still endears me to Whitney... that first album is phenomenal.

I'll certainly never forget it.

Get ready....more crack for the rest of us.

I said this earlier, people give Whitney Houston credit where she doesn't deserve it especially for someone's "disliking". Music wouldn't have been no different had Cissy Houston never had a daughter.

Timmy84 said:

I said this earlier, people give Whitney Houston credit where she doesn't deserve it especially for someone's "disliking". Music wouldn't have been no different had Cissy Houston never had a daughter.

She didn't have a daughter. She had a drag queen.

vainandy said:

Timmy84 said:

I said this earlier, people give Whitney Houston credit where she doesn't deserve it especially for someone's "disliking". Music wouldn't have been no different had Cissy Houston never had a daughter.

She didn't have a daughter. She had a drag queen.

[img:$uid]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyjo12sjKM1qlw12eo1_500.png[/img:$uid]

You slippin' homey...

vainandy said:

Timmy84 said:

So were these guys:

Michael Masser (oddly no one said anything about Diana Ross cheapening black music when "Do You Know Where You're Going To" hit the airwaves

Narada Michael Walden (he's also the guy that polished Aretha's Detroit meets Memphis meets Delta soul/blues in the '80s)

Narada actually basically produced most of Whitney's first two albums so really he's the guy to blame honestly.

Of course not, because it was a good song. Plus, look at all that funk that was going on at the time right alongside it and continued on for more than a decade later. The song didn't change or even threaten anything good.

I think Johnny Mathis changed music more. He popularized both the Greatest Hits and Christmas album. Johnny was the first act to have major success with these types of albums and so record companies followed suit. If not for Johnny, Motown wouldn't have put out endless Temptations & Jackson 5 compilations and Mariah Carey wouldn't have recorded the same Christmas song over and over.

Whitney Houston came during a time where the female vocalists was slowly disappearing in the mainstream music. Music and technologly started to change and here was the Michale Jackson effect.

The Music Video made a serious change to music because it was a medium where the youth can learn how dance and learn cherorgraphy without taking dancing classes. Through that the mainstream audience wanted more dance music. Michael Jackson made that era possible and through Michael's sucess there were the duplicators and people who carried out the same formula such as Janet Jackson, Madonna, etc. What these women did was bring sexuality to pop music and the female voice started to disappear and it became all about costumes, flair and sexuality.

Whitney helped sustain the female vocalists even though there a lot of female vocalists in the 80's non of them really had the connections and mainstream appeal like Whitney Houston. Who was young, and her advantage was that she can target the younger people and she was very mature for age which can help her cross over to the older audience. Whitney also made singing more simplisitc and soulful at that same time but she also more emphasis on hitting notes and singing through techicality.

The female vocalists was alive and well in R&B world but not in pop music and Whitney was the real singer who sucessfully crossed over in that world.

Anita Baker and Sade sucess was more towards a more sophiscated and mature audience and the same would.

Without Whitney it would be more difficult for Mariah and Celine to cross-over in the pop world too.

neoretro7 said:

Whitney Houston came during a time where the female vocalists was slowly disappearing in the mainstream music. Music and technologly started to change and here was the Michale Jackson effect.

The Music Video made a serious change to music because it was a medium where the youth can learn how dance and learn cherorgraphy without taking dancing classes. Through that the mainstream audience wanted more dance music. Michael Jackson made that era possible and through Michael's sucess there were the duplicators and people who carried out the same formula such as Janet Jackson, Madonna, etc. What these women did was bring sexuality to pop music and the female voice started to disappear and it became all about costumes, flair and sexuality.

Whitney helped sustain the female vocalists even though there a lot of female vocalists in the 80's non of them really had the connections and mainstream appeal like Whitney Houston. Who was young, and her advantage was that she can target the younger people and she was very mature for age which can help her cross over to the older audience. Whitney also made singing more simplisitc and soulful at that same time but she also more emphasis on hitting notes and singing through techicality.

The female vocalists was alive and well in R&B world but not in pop music and Whitney was the real singer who sucessfully crossed over in that world.

Anita Baker and Sade sucess was more towards a more sophiscated and mature audience and the same would.

Without Whitney it would be more difficult for Mariah and Celine to cross-over in the pop world too.

Good point.

neoretro7 said:

Whitney Houston came during a time where the female vocalists was slowly disappearing in the mainstream music. Music and technologly started to change and here was the Michale Jackson effect.

The Music Video made a serious change to music because it was a medium where the youth can learn how dance and learn cherorgraphy without taking dancing classes. Through that the mainstream audience wanted more dance music. Michael Jackson made that era possible and through Michael's sucess there were the duplicators and people who carried out the same formula such as Janet Jackson, Madonna, etc. What these women did was bring sexuality to pop music and the female voice started to disappear and it became all about costumes, flair and sexuality.

Whitney helped sustain the female vocalists even though there a lot of female vocalists in the 80's non of them really had the connections and mainstream appeal like Whitney Houston. Who was young, and her advantage was that she can target the younger people and she was very mature for age which can help her cross over to the older audience. Whitney also made singing more simplisitc and soulful at that same time but she also more emphasis on hitting notes and singing through techicality.

The female vocalists was alive and well in R&B world but not in pop music and Whitney was the real singer who sucessfully crossed over in that world.

Anita Baker and Sade sucess was more towards a more sophiscated and mature audience and the same would.

Without Whitney it would be more difficult for Mariah and Celine to cross-over in the pop world too.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whitney represented RAW talent. She didn't need gimmicks, she didn't have to sell her pussy to every journalist willing to put it on their front cover and she didn't need controversy. Give her a microphone and she can entertain you for hours with her creative improvisations and vocal excellence. Whitney is the STANDARD which everybody since 1985 have been compared to and judged against. Whitney appealed to R&B, Gospel, Jazz, Pop and Adult Contemporary audiences the WORLD around. She single handedly put vocalists back in the driving position. Without Whitney, we would have to suffer with mediocre singing from Madonna, Jody Watley and the other singers of the day that could barely squeek there way out of a paper bag. Thank you Whitney!!

neoretro7 said:

Whitney Houston came during a time where the female vocalists was slowly disappearing in the mainstream music. Music and technologly started to change and here was the Michale Jackson effect.

The Music Video made a serious change to music because it was a medium where the youth can learn how dance and learn cherorgraphy without taking dancing classes. Through that the mainstream audience wanted more dance music. Michael Jackson made that era possible and through Michael's sucess there were the duplicators and people who carried out the same formula such as Janet Jackson, Madonna, etc. What these women did was bring sexuality to pop music and the female voice started to disappear and it became all about costumes, flair and sexuality.

Whitney helped sustain the female vocalists even though there a lot of female vocalists in the 80's non of them really had the connections and mainstream appeal like Whitney Houston. Who was young, and her advantage was that she can target the younger people and she was very mature for age which can help her cross over to the older audience. Whitney also made singing more simplisitc and soulful at that same time but she also more emphasis on hitting notes and singing through techicality.

The female vocalists was alive and well in R&B world but not in pop music and Whitney was the real singer who sucessfully crossed over in that world.

Anita Baker and Sade sucess was more towards a more sophiscated and mature audience and the same would.

Without Whitney it would be more difficult for Mariah and Celine to cross-over in the pop world too.

Celine??? She didn't have to cross-over to Pop. She was always a Pop artist. To my knowledge, that's pretty much the only genre she's ever been associated with.

Nippy picked up where Diana left off. If it wasn't for Diana Ross, it would have been almost impossible for Nippy to have experienced the kind of Pop success she had. Diana was the queen of black pop in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. "Touch Me In the Morning" was the epitomy of a Pop song. Diana made entire albums in the 70s that had nothing whatsoever to do with R&B. They were 100% Pop. "Touch Me In the Morning", "Everything Is Everything", "Last Time I Saw Him" - All that boring, drab shit paved the way for vocalists like Nippy to come along and do what they did.

PlayboyOriginal said:

Whitney is the STANDARD which everybody since 1985 have been compared to and judged against.

I've never heard anyone compare Right Said Fred, The Black Crowes, or Guns and Roses to Whitney.

kitbradley said:

neoretro7 said:

Whitney Houston came during a time where the female vocalists was slowly disappearing in the mainstream music. Music and technologly started to change and here was the Michale Jackson effect.

The Music Video made a serious change to music because it was a medium where the youth can learn how dance and learn cherorgraphy without taking dancing classes. Through that the mainstream audience wanted more dance music. Michael Jackson made that era possible and through Michael's sucess there were the duplicators and people who carried out the same formula such as Janet Jackson, Madonna, etc. What these women did was bring sexuality to pop music and the female voice started to disappear and it became all about costumes, flair and sexuality.

Whitney helped sustain the female vocalists even though there a lot of female vocalists in the 80's non of them really had the connections and mainstream appeal like Whitney Houston. Who was young, and her advantage was that she can target the younger people and she was very mature for age which can help her cross over to the older audience. Whitney also made singing more simplisitc and soulful at that same time but she also more emphasis on hitting notes and singing through techicality.

The female vocalists was alive and well in R&B world but not in pop music and Whitney was the real singer who sucessfully crossed over in that world.

Anita Baker and Sade sucess was more towards a more sophiscated and mature audience and the same would.

Without Whitney it would be more difficult for Mariah and Celine to cross-over in the pop world too.

Celine??? She didn't have to cross-over to Pop. She was always a Pop artist. To my knowledge, that's pretty much the only genre she's ever been associated with.

Nippy picked up where Diana left off. If it wasn't for Diana Ross, it would have been almost impossible for Nippy to have experienced the kind of Pop success she had. Diana was the queen of black pop in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. "Touch Me In the Morning" was the epitomy of a Pop song. Diana made entire albums in the 70s that had nothing whatsoever to do with R&B. They were 100% Pop. "Touch Me In the Morning", "Everything Is Everything", "Last Time I Saw Him" - All that boring, drab shit paved the way for vocalists like Nippy to come along and do what they did.

She was a pop vocalist but she wasn't the flashy pop artists that became popular and still are popular today she was more adult contemporary. If she was around in the 60's she would be considered a pop artist but music has changed so much that being a real vocalist makes you a part of the adult contemporary genre.

PlayboyOriginal said:

neoretro7 said:

Whitney Houston came during a time where the female vocalists was slowly disappearing in the mainstream music. Music and technologly started to change and here was the Michale Jackson effect.

The Music Video made a serious change to music because it was a medium where the youth can learn how dance and learn cherorgraphy without taking dancing classes. Through that the mainstream audience wanted more dance music. Michael Jackson made that era possible and through Michael's sucess there were the duplicators and people who carried out the same formula such as Janet Jackson, Madonna, etc. What these women did was bring sexuality to pop music and the female voice started to disappear and it became all about costumes, flair and sexuality.

Whitney helped sustain the female vocalists even though there a lot of female vocalists in the 80's non of them really had the connections and mainstream appeal like Whitney Houston. Who was young, and her advantage was that she can target the younger people and she was very mature for age which can help her cross over to the older audience. Whitney also made singing more simplisitc and soulful at that same time but she also more emphasis on hitting notes and singing through techicality.

The female vocalists was alive and well in R&B world but not in pop music and Whitney was the real singer who sucessfully crossed over in that world.

Anita Baker and Sade sucess was more towards a more sophiscated and mature audience and the same would.

Without Whitney it would be more difficult for Mariah and Celine to cross-over in the pop world too.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whitney represented RAW talent. She didn't need gimmicks, she didn't have to sell her pussy to every journalist willing to put it on their front cover and she didn't need controversy. Give her a microphone and she can entertain you for hours with her creative improvisations and vocal excellence. Whitney is the STANDARD which everybody since 1985 have been compared to and judged against. Whitney appealed to R&B, Gospel, Jazz, Pop and Adult Contemporary audiences the WORLD around. She single handedly put vocalists back in the driving position. Without Whitney, we would have to suffer with mediocre singing from Madonna, Jody Watley and the other singers of the day that could barely squeek there way out of a paper bag. Thank you Whitney!!

Thank You

PlayboyOriginal said:

neoretro7 said:

Whitney Houston came during a time where the female vocalists was slowly disappearing in the mainstream music. Music and technologly started to change and here was the Michale Jackson effect.

The Music Video made a serious change to music because it was a medium where the youth can learn how dance and learn cherorgraphy without taking dancing classes. Through that the mainstream audience wanted more dance music. Michael Jackson made that era possible and through Michael's sucess there were the duplicators and people who carried out the same formula such as Janet Jackson, Madonna, etc. What these women did was bring sexuality to pop music and the female voice started to disappear and it became all about costumes, flair and sexuality.

Whitney helped sustain the female vocalists even though there a lot of female vocalists in the 80's non of them really had the connections and mainstream appeal like Whitney Houston. Who was young, and her advantage was that she can target the younger people and she was very mature for age which can help her cross over to the older audience. Whitney also made singing more simplisitc and soulful at that same time but she also more emphasis on hitting notes and singing through techicality.

The female vocalists was alive and well in R&B world but not in pop music and Whitney was the real singer who sucessfully crossed over in that world.

Anita Baker and Sade sucess was more towards a more sophiscated and mature audience and the same would.

Without Whitney it would be more difficult for Mariah and Celine to cross-over in the pop world too.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whitney represented RAW talent. She didn't need gimmicks, she didn't have to sell her pussy to every journalist willing to put it on their front cover and she didn't need controversy. Give her a microphone and she can entertain you for hours with her creative improvisations and vocal excellence. Whitney is the STANDARD which everybody since 1985 have been compared to and judged against. Whitney appealed to R&B, Gospel, Jazz, Pop and Adult Contemporary audiences the WORLD around. She single handedly put vocalists back in the driving position. Without Whitney, we would have to suffer with mediocre singing from Madonna, Jody Watley and the other singers of the day that could barely squeek there way out of a paper bag. Thank you Whitney!!

Wonderfully stated!

MickyDolenz said:

PlayboyOriginal said:

Whitney is the STANDARD which everybody since 1985 have been compared to and judged against.

I've never heard anyone compare Right Said Fred, The Black Crowes, or Guns and Roses to Whitney.

I would never compare such trash to Whitney.

I agree that the girl was a technically gifted singer, but there was never anything behind that voice for me. To me she was always a hollow talent like so many other gifted prodigies that you can trot out on stage and can perfectly repeat rote performances without being able to muster anything remotely original emanating out of them.

I hold her responsible for all the other over the top hollow mechanical talents like Christina Aguilera and Mariah Carey with their grotesque yodeling on every single track. These singers can't seem to be able to sing a simple song like Happy Birthday without their trite intrepid grotesque yodeling ruining the tune for me.

So for me, she was never a positive force in music.

[Edited 2/2/12 21:45pm]

V10LETBLUES said:

I agree that the girl was a technically gifted singer, but there was never anything behind that voice for me. To me she was always a hollow talent like so many other gifted prodigies that you can trot out on stage and can perfectly repeat rote performances without being able to muster anything remotely original emanating out of them.

I hold her responsible for all the other over the top hollow mechanical talents like Christina Aguilera and Mariah Carey with their grotesque yodeling on every single track. These singers can't seem to be able to sing a simple song like Happy Birthday without their trite intrepid grotesque yodeling ruining the tune for me.

So for me, she was never a positive force in music.

[Edited 2/2/12 21:45pm]

Whitney is anything but rote. She has never performed a song the same way twice before live. In fact, that is why she is known as an interpreter. manytimes for me, she is much better live, free styling. I would neve ruse rote to describe her, never!