More Karyn White!!!

vainandy said:

MickyDolenz said:

I thought it was hard rock and goth music.

You know damn well I'm talking about on R&B radio. Those genres have nothing to do with R&B radio.

R&B radio played Roberta Flack, Doobie Brothers, Maze, and Peabo Bryson though. There's nothing rebellion about them.

I love Whitney Houston... and thats all Im going to say

vainandy said:

MickyDolenz said:

Whitney wasn't doing anything different than Barbra Striesand was doing before her.

That's true and Barabara Streisand was not a staple on R&B radio either and I think it was damn racist of them to play Shitney on R&B radio and make her a staple on it just because she was black but didn't fit the format. You never saw Barbara Streisand being played on heavy metal stations did you?

Some R&B stations played James Taylor and Paul Simon songs. Nothing funky about them.

MickyDolenz said:

vainandy said:

You know damn well I'm talking about on R&B radio. Those genres have nothing to do with R&B radio.

R&B radio played Roberta Flack, Doobie Brothers, Maze, and Peabo Bryson though. There's nothing rebellion about them.

That's true and those are great artists and their music isn't dull but her's is. And whether "dull" is a matter of opinion or not, people weren't abadoning making jams while those artists were being played but they were when Shitney came along. Less and less jams when she came on the scene and more and more dull took over. And before her, those type of artists that you mentioned didn't get near the airplay that the jams did.

vainandy said:

kitbradley said:

Anita had already released two albums (one with Chapter 8 and one solo "The Songstress") long before Nippy came along. She was only known in R&B circles until 1986.

I've heard she was around before 1986 but I had never heard her on the radio until 1986 and there's a reason for it. She was too boring to be played on it. It took someone like Shitney to open the doors and get extremely dull artists played.

except for 1983's "Squeeze Me"

kitbradley said:

Although Nippy is mostly a Pop artist, I think this is probably the most Soulful performance I've heard from her. I'm surprised Clive even allowed it on the "Whitney" album!

I agree,that's one of her most soulful songs.It's a remake of a Manhattans song.I think it actually sounds a little out-of-place on that album,surrounded by all those pop songs.But it proves that Whitney could have easily recorded 'real R&B' if she had chosen to,but Clive had all these crossover dreams for her.

Shango said:

vainandy said:

I've heard she was around before 1986 but I had never heard her on the radio until 1986 and there's a reason for it. She was too boring to be played on it. It took someone like Shitney to open the doors and get extremely dull artists played.

except for 1983's "Squeeze Me"

I've never heard that one before but it sounds pretty decent. MUCH better than her later stuff....a THOUSAND times better than her later stuff. But then again, it was 1983 instead of 1986 which is a BIG difference in sound. "No More Tears" sounds decent also. I never heard it on the radio back in the day either and the first time I heard it was in 1990 when I started going to the gay clubs and a lot of the drag queens were performing it in their shows (lip syncing). Someone at the time told me it was Anita Baker and I was shocked because I had always known her for being even more dull than Shitney.

SoulAlive said:

kitbradley said:

Although Nippy is mostly a Pop artist, I think this is probably the most Soulful performance I've heard from her. I'm surprised Clive even allowed it on the "Whitney" album!

I agree,that's one of her most soulful songs.It's a remake of a Manhattans song.I think it actually sounds a little out-of-place on that album,surrounded by all those pop songs.But it proves that Whitney could have easily recorded 'real R&B' if she had chosen to,but Clive had all these crossover dreams for her.

I'm curious to find out if there were some other Kashif productions on Nippy that ole Clive decided to lock away in the vaults forever.

vainandy said:

kitbradley said:

Anita had already released two albums (one with Chapter 8 and one solo "The Songstress") long before Nippy came along. She was only known in R&B circles until 1986.

I've heard she was around before 1986 but I had never heard her on the radio until 1986 and there's a reason for it. She was too boring to be played on it. It took someone like Shitney to open the doors and get extremely dull artists played.

You are a mess!!!

I don't know Anita's music, but if she was barely played before Whitney appeared and then got mainstream airplay, it could have been from the label encouraging her to go for the crossover Whitney sound. And I know Anita was to record a Boomerang song that went to Toni Braxton instead, and Toni might have stolen HER thunder and become huge in the 90's the way Whitney may have been in the 80's, at least in North America.

kitbradley said:

SoulAlive said:

I agree,that's one of her most soulful songs.It's a remake of a Manhattans song.I think it actually sounds a little out-of-place on that album,surrounded by all those pop songs.But it proves that Whitney could have easily recorded 'real R&B' if she had chosen to,but Clive had all these crossover dreams for her.

I'm curious to find out if there were some other Kashif productions on Nippy that ole Clive decided to lock away in the vaults forever.

I bet that there are Notice that,on the second album,only one of Kashif's songs made it onto the record ("Where You Are").I bet he submitted more songs that Clive rejected because they were too "soulful".

One of the reasons why Anita's success was so limited prior to 1986 is because she was recording for a small label, Beverly Glen. Although "Angel" received very heavy airplay here in Michigan, the label simply didn't have the pull and money to get her airplay outside of black radio. After she signed with a major label, Elektra, that's when she started receiving attention outside of black radio because Elektra wanted it to happen and made it happen by putting the promo and dollars behind her.

I have the first reissue of the "Chapter 8" CD and I recall reading in the liner notes that Anita was dropped from the group after the first album because someone at the label told her she couldn't sing?

SoulAlive said:

kitbradley said:

I'm curious to find out if there were some other Kashif productions on Nippy that ole Clive decided to lock away in the vaults forever.

I bet that there are Notice that,on the second album,only one of Kashif's songs made it onto the record ("Where You Are").I bet he submitted more songs that Clive rejected because they were too "soulful".

I'm willing to bet money on it! Kind of reminds me of Mimi. Tommy Motola rejected some songs from appearing on "Musicbox" because he said they made the album sound too urban. He didn't want another "Emotions". Thank goodness a couple of the rejected songs showed up as B-sides. It just amazes me how those music execs didn't want certain black artists to sound too black. But, I guess they knew what was best because boring meant bigger sales. "Whitney" turned out to be Nippy's best selling album and the same with Mimi's "Musicbox".

Shango said:

vainandy said:

I've heard she was around before 1986 but I had never heard her on the radio until 1986 and there's a reason for it. She was too boring to be played on it. It took someone like Shitney to open the doors and get extremely dull artists played.

except for 1983's "Squeeze Me"

I think if anything, Anita (and Luther) triggered black pop's direction from funk to adult contemporary. When Whitney first signed, Arista didn't know what to do with her at first. But if I have to get Clive credit for something is he knew how to market her. Whitney was his Diana Ross when you think about it...with a slightly stronger vocal (mixture of Diana and Aretha). In fact when he first introduced Whitney in 1983, he said she had the style of Ella Fitzgerald, the grace of Lena Horne and the soul of Aretha Franklin, least that's how I remembered it.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

More Karyn White!!!

kitbradley said:

SoulAlive said:

I bet that there are Notice that,on the second album,only one of Kashif's songs made it onto the record ("Where You Are").I bet he submitted more songs that Clive rejected because they were too "soulful".

I'm willing to bet money on it! Kind of reminds me of Mimi. Tommy Motola rejected some songs from appearing on "Musicbox" because he said they made the album sound too urban. He didn't want another "Emotions". Thank goodness a couple of the rejected songs showed up as B-sides. It just amazes me how those music execs didn't want certain black artists to sound too black. But, I guess they knew what was best because boring meant bigger sales. "Whitney" turned out to be Nippy's best selling album and the same with Mimi's "Musicbox".

I think Music Box is Mariah's most boring album though I have it, it's so funny how it's her best selling though. Definitely jumping on the Whitney and Celine bandwagon. She came around with Daydream and Butterfly though her first two albums are so amazing too.

vainandy said:

MickyDolenz said:

R&B radio played Roberta Flack, Doobie Brothers, Maze, and Peabo Bryson though. There's nothing rebellion about them.

That's true and those are great artists and their music isn't dull but her's is. And whether "dull" is a matter of opinion or not, people weren't abadoning making jams while those artists were being played but they were when Shitney came along. Less and less jams when she came on the scene and more and more dull took over. And before her, those type of artists that you mentioned didn't get near the airplay that the jams did.

Isn't Diane Warren more of an influence to the music you don't like than Whitney though?

It would be much better.

Diane Warren was responsible for a lot of hits for those artists singing adult contemporary in the 80's and 90's, but she also did uptempos like Rhythm Of The Night

Bobby would be 100 pounds lighter and actually look his age. I can't believe he's only 42. Jeez...

alphastreet said:

Diane Warren was responsible for a lot of hits for those artists singing adult contemporary in the 80's and 90's, but she also did uptempos like Rhythm Of The Night

I don't think Andy would consider that funky.

MickyDolenz said:

alphastreet said:

Diane Warren was responsible for a lot of hits for those artists singing adult contemporary in the 80's and 90's, but she also did uptempos like Rhythm Of The Night

I don't think Andy would consider that funky.

It was funky pop :p

alphastreet said:

MickyDolenz said:

I don't think Andy would consider that funky.

It was funky pop :p

It is? I thought it was going for that kinda Caribbean tourist sound like All Night Long (Lionel Richie) and Automatic (Pointer Sisters).

alphastreet said:

Diane Warren was responsible for a lot of hits for those artists singing adult contemporary in the 80's and 90's, but she also did uptempos like Rhythm Of The Night

I hate that song They were doing really good with their first few albums.....making music that was warm and soulful ("All This Love" and Time Will Reveal" are their finest moments) but they had to ruin things with that godawful song and album.

MickyDolenz said:

vainandy said:

That's true and those are great artists and their music isn't dull but her's is. And whether "dull" is a matter of opinion or not, people weren't abadoning making jams while those artists were being played but they were when Shitney came along. Less and less jams when she came on the scene and more and more dull took over. And before her, those type of artists that you mentioned didn't get near the airplay that the jams did.

Isn't Diane Warren more of an influence to the music you don't like than Whitney though?

I've never heard of her.

vainandy said:

alphastreet said:

kitbradley said:

I'm willing to bet money on it! Kind of reminds me of Mimi. Tommy Motola rejected some songs from appearing on "Musicbox" because he said they made the album sound too urban. He didn't want another "Emotions". Thank goodness a couple of the rejected songs showed up as B-sides. It just amazes me how those music execs didn't want certain black artists to sound too black. But, I guess they knew what was best because boring meant bigger sales. "Whitney" turned out to be Nippy's best selling album and the same with Mimi's "Musicbox".

I think Music Box is Mariah's most boring album though I have it, it's so funny how it's her best selling though. Definitely jumping on the Whitney and Celine bandwagon. She came around with Daydream and Butterfly though her first two albums are so amazing too.

"Musicbox" was definately kind of boring but it was far from her worst. You can take a bunch of boring songs but if you add great vocals to it, you change the whole dynamic. Now, "Rainbow", "Glitter", "E=MC" and "Memoirs", I rank those as her worst. Same with "Whitney". Boring songs, great vocals. "Just Whitney", horrible songs, horrible vocals. I still rank that tragedy as her worse to date.

[Edited 2/2/12 8:13am]

vainandy said:

Shango said:

except for 1983's "Squeeze Me"

I've never heard that one before but it sounds pretty decent. MUCH better than her later stuff....a THOUSAND times better than her later stuff. But then again, it was 1983 instead of 1986 which is a BIG difference in sound. "No More Tears" sounds decent also. I never heard it on the radio back in the day either and the first time I heard it was in 1990 when I started going to the gay clubs and a lot of the drag queens were performing it in their shows (lip syncing). Someone at the time told me it was Anita Baker and I was shocked because I had always known her for being even more dull than Shitney.

The thing that I orginally respected about Anita is when she first crossed over in '86, she did it on her own terms. She didn't have to give in and sound Pop/Rock or record a bunch of Micheal Masser-sounding songs to crossover to a white audience. She maintained her original R&B sound and succeeded. The only drawback was she saw what worked and decided to stick with the same formula with pretty much each album. She never ventured outside of her comfort zone. Her last 3 albums are pretty much interchangeable to me. Nothing distinguishes one from the other.

kitbradley said:

vainandy said:

I've never heard that one before but it sounds pretty decent. MUCH better than her later stuff....a THOUSAND times better than her later stuff. But then again, it was 1983 instead of 1986 which is a BIG difference in sound. "No More Tears" sounds decent also. I never heard it on the radio back in the day either and the first time I heard it was in 1990 when I started going to the gay clubs and a lot of the drag queens were performing it in their shows (lip syncing). Someone at the time told me it was Anita Baker and I was shocked because I had always known her for being even more dull than Shitney.

The thing that I orginally respected about Anita is when she first crossed over in '86, she did it on her own terms. She didn't have to give in and sound Pop/Rock or record a bunch of Micheal Masser-sounding songs to crossover to a white audience. She maintained her original R&B sound and succeeded. The only drawback was she saw what worked and decided to stick with the same formula with pretty much each album. She never ventured outside of her comfort zone. Her last 3 albums are pretty much interchangeable to me. Nothing distinguishes one from the other.

I never considered her crossover, just extremely dull adult contemporary R&B. It even slightly resembled jazz to me but not sexy after midnight sounding jazz but dull sounding jazz. Very "family friendly" sounding.

However, the first time I heard her in 1986 with "You better watch yourself, you'll fall and hurt yourself one day", I thought she was the country singer from the late 1970s who had a song called "Somebody's knockin' should I let 'em in. Lord it's the devil, would you look at him". Anita's song sounded similar to it both melodywise and voice wise. I heard it on one of our R&B stations which was 99.7 on the dial. There was a country station on the dial at around 98.5. This was back before stereos had digital numbers, it was a scale with a red line to tune in stations. Plenty of times, I would flip over to the station and a commercial would be on and I wouldn't notice that I had it on the country station until the music started back. There was that fine a line on the dial between the two stations. When I heard Anita Baker's song for the first time, I thought I had it on the country station and slightly turned the dial and got even more country. Then, I started fearing that the R&B station had changed it's format. I waited until the end of the song and then an R&B song from another artist came on that I recognized but I just knew that I had my radio tuned to that country station by accident.