January 25, 2012

The-Dream, the R&B singer and behind-the-scenes power player, recently boasted of a $15 million payday for writing Rihanna's 2007 smash "Umbrella." True? "When you have a cross-over song, it just makes more and more and more money," says Tom DeSavia, a vice president at Notable Music, a 50-year-old music publisher founded by the late songwriter Cy Coleman. "They just make shitloads of money from every source."

But our guess is The-Dream is exaggerating. Every time a track or record sells, all the songwriters receive a total of 9.1 cents in mechanical-royalty payments. (This can cause all kinds of crazy examples of "mailbox money."

Famously, Curtis Stigers covered "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love and Understanding" on Whitney Houston's 1992 The Bodyguard soundtrack.

It has gone on to sell 17 million copies in the U.S., which means the songwriter, former British pub-rocker Nick Lowe, has received checks for roughly $1.547 million in his mailbox.) "Umbrella" has sold 4 million tracks and was included on 2.72 million sales of the Good Girl Gone Bad album, meaning all four songwriters (including rapper Jay-Z) shared $611,520, not counting worldwide sales.

Of course, there are a lot more ways for a songwriter to make money. If the song appears in a movie, TV show, videogame or commercial, the publisher or record label makes a deal and the writer gets a certain (usually large) amount in licensing royalties. And a massive hit like "Rolling in the Deep" or "Poker Face" can make as much as $500,000 per year just in radio royalties. Plus, songs create royalties when they're performed in concert – by anybody – as well as at awards shows or sports events.

They also draw (small but growing) royalties from streaming online – Spotify, YouTube, Rhapsody and others. "Over a lifetime? Millions, if the song becomes a standard and hangs around for 20 or 30 years," says Seth Saltzman, a senior vice president for the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers, which makes sure its 400,000 members receive the royalties they're due. "Lots of different income streams that could happen."

Here's a run-down of how much 10 songwriters have made off recent blockbuster hits.

The figures refer to mechanical royalties based on U.S. track and album sales as of January 2012, according to Nielsen SoundScan.

Each movie and TV deal is different, so we have no idea how much extra money these songs made from licensing. Also, we can't say how the money is divided up among each songwriter and his or her publishing company – in a typical deal, a major publisher will take half of an inexperienced writer's total royalties, sources say.

Identity said:

January 25, 2012

The-Dream, the R&B singer and behind-the-scenes power player, recently boasted of a $15 million payday for writing Rihanna's 2007 smash "Umbrella." True? "When you have a cross-over song, it just makes more and more and more money," says Tom DeSavia, a vice president at Notable Music, a 50-year-old music publisher founded by the late songwriter Cy Coleman. "They just make shitloads of money from every source."

But our guess is The-Dream is exaggerating. Every time a track or record sells, all the songwriters receive a total of 9.1 cents in mechanical-royalty payments. (This can cause all kinds of crazy examples of "mailbox money."

Famously, Curtis Stigers covered "(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love and Understanding" on Whitney Houston's 1992 The Bodyguard soundtrack.

It has gone on to sell 17 million copies in the U.S., which means the songwriter, former British pub-rocker Nick Lowe, has received checks for roughly $1.547 million in his mailbox.) "Umbrella" has sold 4 million tracks and was included on 2.72 million sales of the Good Girl Gone Bad album, meaning all four songwriters (including rapper Jay-Z) shared $611,520, not counting worldwide sales.

Of course, there are a lot more ways for a songwriter to make money. If the song appears in a movie, TV show, videogame or commercial, the publisher or record label makes a deal and the writer gets a certain (usually large) amount in licensing royalties. And a massive hit like "Rolling in the Deep" or "Poker Face" can make as much as $500,000 per year just in radio royalties. Plus, songs create royalties when they're performed in concert – by anybody – as well as at awards shows or sports events.

They also draw (small but growing) royalties from streaming online – Spotify, YouTube, Rhapsody and others. "Over a lifetime? Millions, if the song becomes a standard and hangs around for 20 or 30 years," says Seth Saltzman, a senior vice president for the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers, which makes sure its 400,000 members receive the royalties they're due. "Lots of different income streams that could happen."

Here's a run-down of how much 10 songwriters have made off recent blockbuster hits.

The figures refer to mechanical royalties based on U.S. track and album sales as of January 2012, according to Nielsen SoundScan.

Each movie and TV deal is different, so we have no idea how much extra money these songs made from licensing. Also, we can't say how the money is divided up among each songwriter and his or her publishing company – in a typical deal, a major publisher will take half of an inexperienced writer's total royalties, sources say.

This is how I feel about whatever Rolling Stones has to say about anything

Dan Wilson, Co-Writer, Adele's 'Someone Like You'

Mark Foster, writer, Foster the People's 'Pumped Up Kicks'

Dr. Luke, Max Martin and Bonnie McKee, Co-Writers, Katy Perry's 'California Gurls'

Taylor Swift, Writer, 'Speak Now'

Will.i.am, Co-Writer, 'Boom Boom Pow'

[Edited 1/25/12 10:06am]

It's always been the songwriters that really made the money in the industry (outside of the labels legally raping the artists of course).

Hit songwriting is absolutely the most secure money in an industry littered with thieves and cutthroats.

Identity said:

Hit songwriting is absolutely the most secure money in an industry littered with thieves and cutthroats.

I kept thinking there was more money as a producer, arranger, executive producer, engineer and mixer? But I ain't knocking, songwriting gives you chunks of money, that's why it's easy for a manager to add the artist to the credits so they can get at least a cut.

Timmy84 said:

Identity said:

Hit songwriting is absolutely the most secure money in an industry littered with thieves and cutthroats.

I kept thinking there was more money as a producer, arranger, executive producer, engineer and mixer? But I ain't knocking, songwriting gives you chunks of money, that's why it's easy for a manager to add the artist to the credits so they can get at least a cut.

Thats why so many artists lie about the shit and steal credits...

Timmy84 said:

Identity said:

Hit songwriting is absolutely the most secure money in an industry littered with thieves and cutthroats.

I kept thinking there was more money as a producer, arranger, executive producer, engineer and mixer? But I ain't knocking, songwriting gives you chunks of money, that's why it's easy for a manager to add the artist to the credits so they can get at least a cut.

That's why it trips me out when I see the songwriting credits for current songs and they're averaging about 4-5 people credited on the song....I laugh because I know they have to split the money up 4-5 ways. Cats like Stevie and Prince were probably killing it in their hay with ALL the writing and productions credits they got.

Musicslave said:

Timmy84 said:

I kept thinking there was more money as a producer, arranger, executive producer, engineer and mixer? But I ain't knocking, songwriting gives you chunks of money, that's why it's easy for a manager to add the artist to the credits so they can get at least a cut.

That's why it trips me out when I see the songwriting credits for current songs and they're averaging about 4-5 people credited on the song....I laugh because I know they have to split the money up 4-5 ways. Cats like Stevie and Prince were probably killing it in their hay with ALL the writing and productions credits they got.

I think because people often "give them ideas" that some say "hell might as well give them the credit" even though they didn't actually have pen and paper like the real writers did. But see that's why I love the credits on Adele's album, there's only two writers max on her's.

Musicslave said:

That's why it trips me out when I see the songwriting credits for current songs and they're averaging about 4-5 people credited on the song

If you look at old funk albums like the Bar Kays or Cameo, there's 9 or 10 names on many of the songs, because the whole group is credited.

Timmy84 said:

Musicslave said:

That's why it trips me out when I see the songwriting credits for current songs and they're averaging about 4-5 people credited on the song....I laugh because I know they have to split the money up 4-5 ways. Cats like Stevie and Prince were probably killing it in their hay with ALL the writing and productions credits they got.

I think because people often "give them ideas" that some say "hell might as well give them the credit" even though they didn't actually have pen and paper like the real writers did. But see that's why I love the credits on Adele's album, there's only two writers max on her's.

F*ck that. If you ain't got no pen/pencil in hand or something recorded that's clearly shows your contribution to a song, Fuck that! You digging in my pocket.

Musicslave said:

Timmy84 said:

I think because people often "give them ideas" that some say "hell might as well give them the credit" even though they didn't actually have pen and paper like the real writers did. But see that's why I love the credits on Adele's album, there's only two writers max on her's.

F*ck that. If you ain't got no pen/pencil in hand or something recorded that's clearly shows your contribution to a song, Fuck that! You digging in my pocket.

I just can't understand that but apparently it's either someone's manager or the label that tells someone to give them credit. I don't think the American Idols write their own material and if you see their names on the credits, it's usually either their manager or the label itself saying "add their names on there" even if they hadn't written anything.

MickyDolenz said:

Musicslave said:

That's why it trips me out when I see the songwriting credits for current songs and they're averaging about 4-5 people credited on the song

If you look at old funk albums like the Bar Kays or Cameo, there's 9 or 10 names on many of the songs, because the whole group is credited.

Yeah, I hear ya. I don't mind that as much as it probably was a group effort versus some guys hanging out during a recording session like Timmy was projecting and a cat offer one word to a song and then threatens to sue if they're not "properly credited" on the album.

Sometimes a full group got credit back then but half the members didn't even write them.

Case in point: THE ISLEY BROTHERS

Everyone would be shocked if they knew that O'Kelly, Rudolph and Ronald Isley after 1972 didn't write much after they let Ernie, Marvin and Chris in the picture...

Marvin Isley died nearly penniless. Isn't it true that Ronald and Rudolph own the rights to the Isleys catalog?

[Edited 1/25/12 12:18pm]

Musicslave said:

F*ck that. If you ain't got no pen/pencil in hand or something recorded that's clearly shows your contribution to a song, Fuck that! You digging in my pocket.

There's a old doo wop group called The Cadillacs. They wrote some of their songs, but their manager registered the songs under her name and the group wasn't credited at all, so she made all of the money. B.B. King had problems with the Bihari brothers (who ran the label he was signed to at the time) sticking names like Jules Taub on songs he wrote. B.B. said he never met anyone named "Taub".

Identity said:

Marvin Isley died nearly penniless

I think on top of having diabetes in 1997, his medical insurance wiped out his finances and he (and his brothers) might've signed a contract that prevented them from getting any more royalties since they were out of the group - which they were told to leave, it wasn't a conscientous (sp?) decision. It's like the older Isleys ripped them off.

MickyDolenz said:

Musicslave said:

F*ck that. If you ain't got no pen/pencil in hand or something recorded that's clearly shows your contribution to a song, Fuck that! You digging in my pocket.

There's a old doo wop group called The Cadillacs. They wrote some of their songs, but their manager registered the songs under her name and the group wasn't credited at all, so she made all of the money. B.B. King had problems with the Bihari brothers (who ran the label he was signed to at the time) sticking names like Jules Taub on songs he wrote. B.B. said he never met anyone named "Taub".

Freakin shame man I hate hearing about those horror stories. That's why I called it legal rape earlier in this thread.

That's family for ya: your own flesh and blood will rob you blind too.

Timmy84 said:

Identity said:

Marvin Isley died nearly penniless.

I think on top of having diabetes in 1997, his medical insurance wiped out his finances and he (and his brothers) might've signed a contract that prevented them from getting any more royalties since they were out of the group - which they were told to leave, it wasn't a conscientous (sp?) decision. It's like the older Isleys ripped them off.

Wow!

[Edited 1/25/12 12:26pm]

Identity said:

That's family for ya: your own flesh and blood will rob you blind too.

Yeah. With family like that, who needs enemies?

Many of the songs credited to Lennon/McCartney were really written separately. A few solo songs like Cold Turkey was also credited as written together, and Paul had nothing at all to do with it. Paul & John made an agreement to have their songs this way. John wrote Cold Turkey for the Beatles, but Paul, George, & Ringo rejected it. John said he helped a little with the lyrics to Taxman, but it was credited to George only.

It's not always stealing though. Sometimes songwriters decline writing credits for legal reasons. Some use fake names to get around this, or they might choose to not to be credited. It's been said that Morris Day wrote Partyup, but gave the song to Prince in exchange for getting him a record deal. Some writers add people such as a family member or friend to help them out.

mjscarousal said:

Timmy84 said:

I kept thinking there was more money as a producer, arranger, executive producer, engineer and mixer? But I ain't knocking, songwriting gives you chunks of money, that's why it's easy for a manager to add the artist to the credits so they can get at least a cut.

Thats why so many artists lie about the shit and steal credits...

<<cough cough>>Beyonce<<cough cough>>

Eminem, Co-Writer, 'Love the Way You Lie'

TRACK SALES: 5.3 million
ALBUM SALES: 4.2 million
TOTAL SONGWRITING ROYALTIES: $864,500

Eminem finished "Love the Way You Lie" with his own rapping, of course, but the story behind the hook has a certain star-making drama. Holly Brook, a struggling singer-songwriter on various record labels for years, met British hip-hop producer Alex da Kid. He had produced B.o.B.'s "Airplanes," she heard it via her music publisher, she contacted Alex, he sent her a beat and she added a new hook. That hook turned into the backbone of "Love the Way You Lie." Eminem liked the hook, Rihanna sang it, Brook changed her name to Skyler Grey and the rest is mailbox-money history.

It's funny that they mention Holly Brook, because the first time I heard her, she was singing the chorus on the song "Where'd You Go?", which was a hip-hop track by Fort Minor, a side project of Mike Shinoda of Linkin Park. She was going by her real name then, but I wasn't aware that she had changed to another stage name.

Identity said: