And you can always spot a hypocrite among the crowd... not all of those who became a fan of him after he died were honestly fans when he was alive. It's always been a trend to like any artist who dies.

bboy87 said:

Emancipation89 said:

I will never be able to understand this mentality. Might as well give someone who truly stood by MJ's side no matter what - completely defended him in from any rumors at all time - the right to make final decisions on any MJ related issues? Because apparently "new fans" aren't as qualified as "old fans" to speak of anything related to MJ according to your standard.

Sorry you felt like you were the only one who supported MJ through out the 90's, you must've been lonely and miserable. But now the majority of "new fans" want to hear his unreleased stuff just as much as you do, and some of them still don't give a damn about his personal life and just believe whatever they wanna believe. Just because they didn't give a damn about his personal life during the 90's and 2000's, you think their love for MJ's music is any less than yours?

I know where Dren5 is coming from so I think I can give some insight

He's not talking about new fans who are truly fans. He's most likely talking about bandwagoners who are fans because it became the "in thing" to do. I, like Dren and others don't have problems with people now becoming fans after his passing. It's great to know Michael's music is reaching folks BUT there are people who are fans just because it's somewhat cool to like a dead performer

There's folks who were so sure of him being a freak or a pedophile or "not that good" but the month after he died, he was their favorite singer

To that bolded part, nobody's saying that to be a fan, you have to be invested in his personal life (I'm one of the fans who doesn't keep up with his kids or a lot of the other stuff that surrounded him) but at the same time in certain issues, there has to be a balance. For example, I would give ANYONE the side eye who says they're a Michael Jackson fan but thinks he bleached his skin or molested kids

Like I said, for those of us who remember when, it's kinda....."meh" because there was a time when you got shit just for liking his music

[Edited 1/28/12 16:10pm]

Well Said....

I dont have a problem with new fans because I think its cool that alot of people especially YOUNG people are now discovering his TALENT AND MUSIC

However, what I do find issue with is people like teens, 20s and even old ass adults acting like they have been fans for hundreds of years knowing damn well they were shitting on him 5 years ago, talk trashed about him and didnt listen to his music...

Ive been a fan of Michael since before I could tie my shoes... I remember being little as young as 2nd and 3rd grade being teased because I loved MJ and this was around 2000/ 20001 so Invincble and not came out to long ago... I got teased cause I didnt listen to the music that was out....

I remember it being SOOO HARD to find ANYTHING on Michael.. posters etc..

I remember when the Ultimate collection came out being so excited...

I remember being on MJJsource heavy during the trial...

I remember when Numberones came out... etc...

I was a hardcore MJ fan all the way through thats why gets on my nerves with all this bullshit and all the bullshit fans now today just because he passed...

I use to go to las vegas every summer when I was little and the ONLY thing I could find on Michael were a few paintings that I would collect every summer... BEFORE his passing in 09.

I have items that I could barely collect before his passing and those collectibles and items I will always treasure...

Dren5 said:

bboy87 said:

That's how I feel.

I remember walking in Barnes and Noble in August '09 and seeing books and books and magazines and calendars of Michael and wondering, "I'm 21, I've been a fan since I was 2......where was all of THIS when I was growing up?"

I don't remember seeing Michael posters in stores since my cousin bought me one when I was 5 in 1992. It was very rare occassion to see a book about Michael Jackson in book stores (my friends who wrote one were told by several companies that a positive Michael Jackson book won't sell). Matter of fact, I remember ranting on this very site back in 2008 or 2009 that you can't find books about Michael, Prince, James Brown, Stevie, or Marvin in book stores but you'll see rows of books about The Rolling Stones or Bob Dylan or Kurt Cobain.

I don't remember Michael Jackson t-shirts or buttons or any kind of memorbilia. I remember looking for "The Ultimate Collection" and going to 10 different stores. 2 Wal Marts, 3 Barnes And Nobles, an FYE and FOUR Best Buys and none of them having it....and Best Buy had a special deal when it came out. It was their mail adverts! "Michael Jackson: The Ultimate Collection for $29.99" I had to order it online. I didn't see it in stores until Thriller 25 was released

So that visit to B&N that summer, I was in shocked and kinda pissed off because like many folks in this sticky, I REMEMBER and to see so many companies making a profit from someone who they wouldn't touch for a greater part of 15 years, it was pretty sickening

The This Is It premiere livecast. Folks there for publicity. Folks there who I remember talking shit about him, saying they loved him and he was an inspiration to them. "What's your favorite song?"

"Err....Billie Jean"

[img:$uid]http://i41.tinypic.com/2gtc4xy.gif[/img:$uid]

Yeah.....get the entire fuck outta here

and I can't tell you how TIRED I was at every MJ related event, there was the This Is It dancers doing "The Drill"

and this recent event at the Chinese theater felt more like a promotional tool for the "Immortal World Tour"

Exactly. Hell, there was a period there in the late 90s/early 2000s where in some stores they didn't even carry his music in the cd section - I shit you not. I used to always go over to the J's (reflex, force of habit type bullshit) and a few times there was nothing there. I was shocked to see after he 'died', not only is his catalog available again in those same places, but there were MJ posters in other sections of the store...

When I was in middle school, about 12 or 13 (this is the early 1990s), I owned the book "Magic and the Madness" and used to read it constantly because let's be real here, it's not like there was much else available about MJ, especially not in the States. I went to my school's library to return some books I'd checked out and realized later that I'd accidentally stuffed the bio down the chute with them. I told the librarian I lost my book and what the title was and, literally out of nowhere she suddenly says she that MJ wasn't her 'favorite person'. No, I hadn't tried to start a discussion about him or anything else, she just felt the need to tell me that for some reason. This was a grown woman that looked to be in either her 50s or 60s at the time.

In elementary school during the Pledge of Allegiance it suddenly became the 'In' thing for the other kids to say "I pledge allegiance to the flag/that Michael Jackson is a f*g..." there was a big window of time there for years and years that if you mentioned you were into MJ, you would basically expect some kind of fucked-up comment from people of various ages.

Every fan who has been around long enough, has stories like that. When new fans wanna run their mouths too much I'm always like, "Where the fuck where you back during the 90s? Were you at fucking MJIFC? Have you ever had to brace yourself for people's reaction when you mention being an MJ fan? No? Then shut the fuck up."

Did we grow up together? You're just a couple of years older than me but we've had the same experiences

I remember going into stores looking for MJ and Prince and folks giving "the look" when I asked It wasn't until about when 3121 and I started buying music exclusively at record stores that weren't part of big chains here in California like Rasputin and Amoeba where I didn't get shit from the employees from asking about them

I got that voluntary "I don't like Michael Jackson" speech so many times I've lost count. I was never one of those extrovert fans. I'd mention that I was a fan in passing or would have a cassette/CD or a book and next thing I know.... "I HATE MICHAEL JACKSON!" "MICHAEL JACKSON'S A CHILD MOLESTOR!" and I became "THE Michael Jackson fan" I expected rude comments. It's like, "Damn, mentioning the guy's name brings hate"

Well I was raise on Janet and got into Michael on my own. Of course I knew who he was but I was listening to other things at the time. I got into him during the invincible era and of course we know what followed after that. So I can say I was a big fan during the harder times and I guess that's why I give a side eye to people who jumped on board now. Those VH1 marathons on Michael were good though

Emancipation89 said:

Dren5 said:

Every fan who has been around long enough, has stories like that. When new fans wanna run their mouths too much I'm always like, "Where the fuck where you back during the 90s? Were you at fucking MJIFC? Have you ever had to brace yourself for people's reaction when you mention being an MJ fan? No? Then shut the fuck up."

I will never be able to understand this mentality. Might as well give someone who truly stood by MJ's side no matter what - completely defended him in from any rumors at all time - the right to make final decisions on any MJ related issues? Because apparently "new fans" aren't as qualified as "old fans" to speak of anything related to MJ according to your standard.

Sorry you felt like you were the only one who supported MJ through out the 90's, you must've been lonely and miserable. But now the majority of "new fans" want to hear his unreleased stuff just as much as you do, and some of them still don't give a damn about his personal life and just believe whatever they wanna believe. Just because they didn't give a damn about his personal life during the 90's and 2000's, you think their love for MJ's music is any less than yours?

That's not what I said. I said a certain amount of respect should be shown by newer fans to older ones, who were there all along and took a lot of crap.

Nor did I say I was the only one - notice during this entire convo I've been saying things like 'we' and us' in reference to longstanding fans. There's a lot of us out there, I'm by no means the only one.

Nor were my comments about MJ's personal life specifically so much as being 'there', period. Having been around for most of his solo career and continuing to do it even when you got slagged off for it, knowing something about his actual work as well as not jumping ship when the shit hit the fan in his personal life.

And frankly yeah, I do think it is. I think that honestly the people who were genuinely into his music, found their way to him long before he 'died' and it suddenly became cool to mention listening to MJ. And like other members here have said, it's easy to be able to tell the bandwagoners from the actual fans anyway - very transparent.

My take. Like it or don't, not my problem.

bboy87 said:

Emancipation89 said:

I will never be able to understand this mentality. Might as well give someone who truly stood by MJ's side no matter what - completely defended him in from any rumors at all time - the right to make final decisions on any MJ related issues? Because apparently "new fans" aren't as qualified as "old fans" to speak of anything related to MJ according to your standard.

Sorry you felt like you were the only one who supported MJ through out the 90's, you must've been lonely and miserable. But now the majority of "new fans" want to hear his unreleased stuff just as much as you do, and some of them still don't give a damn about his personal life and just believe whatever they wanna believe. Just because they didn't give a damn about his personal life during the 90's and 2000's, you think their love for MJ's music is any less than yours?

I know where Dren5 is coming from so I think I can give some insight

He's not talking about new fans who are truly fans. He's most likely talking about bandwagoners who are fans because it became the "in thing" to do. I, like Dren and others don't have problems with people now becoming fans after his passing. It's great to know Michael's music is reaching folks BUT there are people who are fans just because it's somewhat cool to like a dead performer

There's folks who were so sure of him being a freak or a pedophile or "not that good" but the month after he died, he was their favorite singer

To that bolded part, nobody's saying that to be a fan, you have to be invested in his personal life (I'm one of the fans who doesn't keep up with his kids or a lot of the other stuff that surrounded him) but at the same time in certain issues, there has to be a balance. For example, I would give ANYONE the side eye who says they're a Michael Jackson fan but thinks he bleached his skin or molested kids

Like I said, for those of us who remember when, it's kinda....."meh" because there was a time when you got shit just for liking his music

[Edited 1/28/12 16:10pm]

This is exactly what I'm saying. Then they wanna talk shit to and disrespect the actual fans? GTFOOHWTBS.

And...I don't get what made her mention his personal life, either - I wrote one thing and she read something entirely different into that, which is...interesting, but really her own thing to deal with, not mine. What you read into and project onto people ultimately says more about you and where your head is at than it does, them.

bboy87 said:

Dren5 said:

Exactly. Hell, there was a period there in the late 90s/early 2000s where in some stores they didn't even carry his music in the cd section - I shit you not. I used to always go over to the J's (reflex, force of habit type bullshit) and a few times there was nothing there. I was shocked to see after he 'died', not only is his catalog available again in those same places, but there were MJ posters in other sections of the store...

When I was in middle school, about 12 or 13 (this is the early 1990s), I owned the book "Magic and the Madness" and used to read it constantly because let's be real here, it's not like there was much else available about MJ, especially not in the States. I went to my school's library to return some books I'd checked out and realized later that I'd accidentally stuffed the bio down the chute with them. I told the librarian I lost my book and what the title was and, literally out of nowhere she suddenly says she that MJ wasn't her 'favorite person'. No, I hadn't tried to start a discussion about him or anything else, she just felt the need to tell me that for some reason. This was a grown woman that looked to be in either her 50s or 60s at the time.

In elementary school during the Pledge of Allegiance it suddenly became the 'In' thing for the other kids to say "I pledge allegiance to the flag/that Michael Jackson is a f*g..." there was a big window of time there for years and years that if you mentioned you were into MJ, you would basically expect some kind of fucked-up comment from people of various ages.

Every fan who has been around long enough, has stories like that. When new fans wanna run their mouths too much I'm always like, "Where the fuck where you back during the 90s? Were you at fucking MJIFC? Have you ever had to brace yourself for people's reaction when you mention being an MJ fan? No? Then shut the fuck up."

Did we grow up together? You're just a couple of years older than me but we've had the same experiences

I remember going into stores looking for MJ and Prince and folks giving "the look" when I asked It wasn't until about when 3121 and I started buying music exclusively at record stores that weren't part of big chains here in California like Rasputin and Amoeba where I didn't get shit from the employees from asking about them

I got that voluntary "I don't like Michael Jackson" speech so many times I've lost count. I was never one of those extrovert fans. I'd mention that I was a fan in passing or would have a cassette/CD or a book and next thing I know.... "I HATE MICHAEL JACKSON!" "MICHAEL JACKSON'S A CHILD MOLESTOR!" and I became "THE Michael Jackson fan" I expected rude comments. It's like, "Damn, mentioning the guy's name brings hate"

...Yeah, I've got a few years on you - I was born in 1981.

I'm out in the Midwest though but, yep! Our experiences were very similar. I ended up just standing there thinking to myself like "Wtf? I didn't ask you what you thought of MJ"; that day I went home and told my mom what the librarian said and she was pissed.

But yeah you'd definitely get to the point where you expected dumb shit to come out of people's mouths . The few times I did get a positive reaction from people, I was genuinely shocked because it was so uncommon. In 2000 I was in college, down in the computer lab and looking at MJ-related stuff (okay, admittedly it was a pervy .gif of him and Naomi Campbell) then a random girl, total stranger to me, came up to me and asked me if I was an MJ fan. I nodded yes, slowly and cautiously, waiting for dumb shit to come out of her mouth, and then she starts prattling away "Oh me too!" and talking about how awesome she thought he was.

I just kinda sat there looking at her in shock and nodded, completely speechless.

I had similar reactions lol I would be shocked if someone mentioned they dug Michael too. My parents could tell seeing me at my computer a few years ago that I had Michael on there and all they did was laugh. Not for me liking Michael (they liked him too, least his music) but that's all they saw me with on my computer. My cousin was still a big fan and he was as breathless as I was on June 25, '09.

Dren5 said:

That's not what I said. I said a certain amount of respect should be shown by newer fans to older ones, who were there all along and took a lot of crap.

I don't know what kind of 'respect' you're talking about, but honestly, by your last paragraph from the previous post, it sounded as if you were just sick of newer MJ fans who have their own opinions. Even if that's the case, you're right it's your opinion why should I bother

Nor did I say I was the only one - notice during this entire convo I've been saying things like 'we' and us' in reference to longstanding fans. There's a lot of us out there, I'm by no means the only one.

I said "oh, you were probably soo sad" because it sounded like you were mostly surrounded by people who weren't fond of MJ in real life, Am I wrong?

Nor were my comments about MJ's personal life specifically so much as being 'there', period.

I brought up the personal life part because you wanted to know where the fans were during the 90's, your question sounded as if you were frustrated with people not 'being there' for MJ through out the tough period;

"Where the fuck where you back during the 90s? Were you at fucking MJIFC? Have you ever had to brace yourself for people's reaction when you mention being an MJ fan?"

I believe he had a huge fan base during 80's but they might have gotten tired of hearing the rumors, didn't care to defend him during the 90's, and thought History and Invincible were disappointing, etc. But then after he died they might have decided to go back to digging his catalogue, which again, is cool with me.

[Edited 1/29/12 0:16am]

Yeah - definitely wasn't easy being an MJ fan in the 90's. Very hard in the UK with the stupid bullshit tabloid media headlines, I lost count of the "Wacko Jacko" headlines I'd see adorning those garbage papers on a weekly basis. But kids knew not to start shit with me about it. I was always a proud and diehard fan and didn't give a fuck who knew.

hi, this is a little off topic, but i was haveing a "arguement" with someone earlier about mj..

and they brought up the blanket window insident, i told them it was a lion king reference.. im just making sure that i didnt give them false info.. didnt michael say it was a lion king reference?

thanks!

dm3857 said:

hi, this is a little off topic, but i was haveing a "arguement" with someone earlier about mj..

and they brought up the blanket window insident, i told them it was a lion king reference.. im just making sure that i didnt give them false info.. didnt michael say it was a lion king reference?

thanks!

It was a made up excuse by one of Michael's friends so that maybe people would forgive him. They didn't.

dm3857 said:

hi, this is a little off topic, but i was haveing a "arguement" with someone earlier about mj..

and they brought up the blanket window insident, i told them it was a lion king reference.. im just making sure that i didnt give them false info.. didnt michael say it was a lion king reference?

thanks!

LOL! I tell people Mike had a "Rafiki Moment".

Nah, he never said it. I just explain to people that everyone makes errors in judgement. Michael Jackson should be no different. Although honestly, he really had a tight grip over Blanket and I knew he wasn't going to fall. I've honestly seen parents do way worse to their kids.

Like Steve Irwin putting his child very close to the mouth of a crocodile? And no hard grip, just holding his hands as if the kid was walking towards it.

Born in '91 and I can completely relate to what you're all saying (I became an MJ fan in 1996).

dm3857 said:

hi, this is a little off topic, but i was haveing a "arguement" with someone earlier about mj..

and they brought up the blanket window insident, i told them it was a lion king reference.. im just making sure that i didnt give them false info.. didnt michael say it was a lion king reference?

thanks!

I'm pretty sure that it was Michael's lawyer Brian Oxman who made that lion king comment. Very smart dude. Thank God he didn't make a reference to Pocahontas.

Im guest hosting an internet radio show tonight at 10pm (EASTERN TIME)

tonight we're gonna be talking about the top 10 MJ WATERCOOLER MOMENTS ( i.e. things mj done on tv that people discuss heavily the next day)

its gonna be fun, i never been heavily featured on a radio show, i gotta talk for an hour and a half, i dont talk that much in a week

so if you like me check me out, listen, call, talk shit , its all good

THEY TRYINA ADD ME ON AS COHOST SO I HOPE I DO A GOOD JOB

let em know that BJ sent you.

Website:
www.blogtalkradio.com/preservingmj

Show starts at Sunday (JAN 29-TONGIHT) 10 pm EST
This is the number you call in:
714-510-3766

crazymouse said:

dm3857 said:

hi, this is a little off topic, but i was haveing a "arguement" with someone earlier about mj..

and they brought up the blanket window insident, i told them it was a lion king reference.. im just making sure that i didnt give them false info.. didnt michael say it was a lion king reference?

thanks!

I'm pretty sure that it was Michael's lawyer Brian Oxman who made that lion king comment. Very smart dude. Thank God he didn't make a reference to Pocahontas.

I don't remember MJ ever saying anything about the Lion King, no. Had to be the other dude.

Honestly, I think Michael was just high outta his mind on that bullshit and he wasn't thinking straight so he did something fucking stupid.

Militant said:

Yeah - definitely wasn't easy being an MJ fan in the 90's. Very hard in the UK with the stupid bullshit tabloid media headlines, I lost count of the "Wacko Jacko" headlines I'd see adorning those garbage papers on a weekly basis. But kids knew not to start shit with me about it. I was always a proud and diehard fan and didn't give a fuck who knew.

This brings me to another gripe I have, only this one about the overseas fan community.

Right after MJ 'died', I started seeing a ton of European fans, blame it on the United States citizens in general as well as the media.

"U.S. killed him, U.S. killed him."

Bullshit. I noticed that when you point out that it was actually the British press and tabloids that were the most brutal, they just pretend you never said that, they just go onto how MJ left the States.

At which point I would usually mention how he'd always eventually move back.

They'd ignore that and just go back to "America killed MJ".

Dren5 said:

crazymouse said:

I'm pretty sure that it was Michael's lawyer Brian Oxman who made that lion king comment. Very smart dude. Thank God he didn't make a reference to Pocahontas.

I don't remember MJ ever saying anything about the Lion King, no. Had to be the other dude.

Honestly, I think Michael was just high outta his mind on that bullshit and he wasn't thinking straight so he did something fucking stupid.

I remember it and some of the behind the scenes footage. Not high, but still a stupid decision. "My fans wanna see him? I'll show them!" He did something similar with Michael Jr. (Prince) when he was a baby

Now that I think about it. We didn't know Blanket existed until that incident

Dren5 said:

Militant said:

Yeah - definitely wasn't easy being an MJ fan in the 90's. Very hard in the UK with the stupid bullshit tabloid media headlines, I lost count of the "Wacko Jacko" headlines I'd see adorning those garbage papers on a weekly basis. But kids knew not to start shit with me about it. I was always a proud and diehard fan and didn't give a fuck who knew.

This brings me to another gripe I have, only this one about the overseas fan community.

Right after MJ 'died', I started seeing a ton of European fans, blame it on the United States citizens in general as well as the media.

"U.S. killed him, U.S. killed him."

Bullshit. I noticed that when you point out that it was actually the British press and tabloids that were the most brutal, they just pretend you never said that, they just go onto how MJ left the States.

At which point I would usually mention how he'd always eventually move back.

They'd ignore that and just go back to "America killed MJ".

A lot of the rumors over the years originated in UK tabloids

http://www.the-michael-jackson-archives.com/badcontents.html

the Bad era had UK tabloids in a frenzy

I always thought that balcony incident was stupid on his part. I get why he wanted to show them but still... I was like "Mike come on! "

bboy87 said:

Dren5 said:

I don't remember MJ ever saying anything about the Lion King, no. Had to be the other dude.

Honestly, I think Michael was just high outta his mind on that bullshit and he wasn't thinking straight so he did something fucking stupid.

I remember it and some of the behind the scenes footage. Not high, but still a stupid decision. "My fans wanna see him? I'll show them!" He did something similar with Michael Jr. (Prince) when he was a baby

Now that I think about it. We didn't know Blanket existed until that incident

I think he was on something when he did that - let's be real here, MJ was acting like he was fiending and tweaking for basically that entire broadcast - something was off. And he's not exactly stupid, so I doubt he would do something like that while he was stone-cold sober.

Been reading from the sidelines and here is my point of view on post 2009 fans.

I'm fine with them. I even understand them. For many fans MJ was the music of their youth and thry out grew him. It happens. Now his sudden death made them think back and maybe rediscover the music.

I'm fine with that too.

If people are jumping on a bandwagon - well better late then never. At least you'll hear more MJ music.

Fans who try to outfan another are just lame in my book. I have been a fan for decades now and don't profess to know everything (i'm only at about 99.9% ). I'm cool with people having opinions that differ to mine, cool with someone challenging me - but I ask the same respect be shown.

The only fans that irk me are the ones that will say MJ got a raw deal from the media etc etc, or say that he was the victim of wild rumours and tabloid garbage and then turn around and give the same raw deal to poople like Murray (Now I'm not defending Murray, he was guilty and was proven so) or try to talk about him faking his death etc etc. The hypocritcal fans are the ones I don't have time for - they have become their (and Mj's legacy) own worse nightmare.

Oh and for the record I am the biggest fan EVER, and you ain't bad you ain't nothing. (that's a joke folks)

Swa said:

Been reading from the sidelines and here is my point of view on post 2009 fans.

I'm fine with them. I even understand them. For many fans MJ was the music of their youth and thry out grew him. It happens. Now his sudden death made them think back and maybe rediscover the music.

I'm fine with that too.

If people are jumping on a bandwagon - well better late then never. At least you'll hear more MJ music.

Fans who try to outfan another are just lame in my book. I have been a fan for decades now and don't profess to know everything (i'm only at about 99.9% ). I'm cool with people having opinions that differ to mine, cool with someone challenging me - but I ask the same respect be shown.

The only fans that irk me are the ones that will say MJ got a raw deal from the media etc etc, or say that he was the victim of wild rumours and tabloid garbage and then turn around and give the same raw deal to poople like Murray (Now I'm not defending Murray, he was guilty and was proven so) or try to talk about him faking his death etc etc. The hypocritcal fans are the ones I don't have time for - they have become their (and Mj's legacy) own worse nightmare.

Oh and for the record I am the biggest fan EVER, and you ain't bad you ain't nothing. (that's a joke folks)

You gotta be kidding me.

Most of the people who jumped on after he 'died' weren't former fans who suddenly returned to the fold; you know it and I know it - they were random people who were never into his music in the first place, and some who even used to constantly slag him off. These are all people who just heard he croaked, and once he was being mentioned everywhere (and suddenly in a positive tone) they wanted to be in on it so they bought MJ t-shirts and suddenly started claiming they were always fans but you ask them the lyrics to something like "Whatever Happens" and they'll give you the blank stare.

That's what this is about that dishonesty along with the blatant disrespect a lot of them show the actual, longstanding MJ fans. You say it's okay to have someone disagree with you, but with respect - and a lot of them don't do that. So yeah, I don't care if you think it's lame or not but I have little patience with a bunch of pushy, overbearing assholes who show up out of nowhere talking shit when they don't know shit and are pretty much trying to jump in on a trend and weren't there when things were suckass and then shit on the ones who were.

And none of this shit is an unreasonable request or unique to this particular community. The hacker community/techie folks hate it when new people who know nothing about the subject and just wanna look cool, pop up and then talk shit to them - plenty of different online communities and groups feel this way about stuff like this. And I don't think it's unjustified.

And I've been a fan for decades too. Like I said, I was born in 1981 and I've been a fan from anywhere between 2-4 years old, and I'm thirty now. So don't try that "I've been a fan for decades" bullshit on me. Come see me when you were a fan before you could even add or multiply.

bboy87 said:

Dren5 said:

This brings me to another gripe I have, only this one about the overseas fan community.

Right after MJ 'died', I started seeing a ton of European fans, blame it on the United States citizens in general as well as the media.

"U.S. killed him, U.S. killed him."

Bullshit. I noticed that when you point out that it was actually the British press and tabloids that were the most brutal, they just pretend you never said that, they just go onto how MJ left the States.

At which point I would usually mention how he'd always eventually move back.

They'd ignore that and just go back to "America killed MJ".

A lot of the rumors over the years originated in UK tabloids

http://www.the-michael-jackson-archives.com/badcontents.html

the Bad era had UK tabloids in a frenzy

I know they did. And a lot of the ones that didn't, were way worse in the overseas tabloid press than in the American. The British tabloids are on some other shit entirely and don't hold back on people at all. So it's weird to me that European fans always bitch about the States like all the worst shit went on here when it didn't, barring the allegations, but frankly that could've happened anywhere because all over the planet there's greedy opportunistic people.

I remember once being in a chat with a friend at the time (another American) and we were basically clusterfucked by everyone else in there about this stuff and it pissed us both off. And no matter how many times you pointed out the inaccuracies of what they were saying, they still kept right on babbling.

Dren5 said:

bboy87 said:

A lot of the rumors over the years originated in UK tabloids

http://www.the-michael-jackson-archives.com/badcontents.html

the Bad era had UK tabloids in a frenzy

I know they did. And a lot of the ones that didn't, were way worse in the overseas tabloid press than in the American. The British tabloids are on some other shit entirely and don't hold back on people at all. So it's weird to me that European fans always bitch about the States like all the worst shit went on here when it didn't, barring the allegations, but frankly that could've happened anywhere because all over the planet there's greedy opportunistic people.

I remember once being in a chat with a friend at the time (another American) and we were basically clusterfucked by everyone else in there about this stuff and it pissed us both off. And no matter how many times you pointed out the inaccuracies of what they were saying, they still kept right on babbling.

Yeah the European fans do like to look down their nose at you if you're from North America. But really, they were/are no better than anyone else.

Hell, I knew a girl from Germany. She's been a fan since she was a toddler and when Michael passed away, she saw people in the record store like you won't believe. She even told me some muhfugga said to her "it's cool to like Michael again", and she nearly beat the shit outta him.

America didn't kill Michael Jackson. The world crucified him for th longest time..and when the man finally succumbed to his wounds...the finger pointing starts. Fuck'em...

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Dren5 said:

I know they did. And a lot of the ones that didn't, were way worse in the overseas tabloid press than in the American. The British tabloids are on some other shit entirely and don't hold back on people at all. So it's weird to me that European fans always bitch about the States like all the worst shit went on here when it didn't, barring the allegations, but frankly that could've happened anywhere because all over the planet there's greedy opportunistic people.

I remember once being in a chat with a friend at the time (another American) and we were basically clusterfucked by everyone else in there about this stuff and it pissed us both off. And no matter how many times you pointed out the inaccuracies of what they were saying, they still kept right on babbling.

Yeah the European fans do like to look down their nose at you if you're from North America. But really, they were/are no better than anyone else.

Hell, I knew a girl from Germany. She's been a fan since she was a toddler and when Michael passed away, she saw people in the record store like you won't believe. She even told me some muhfugga said to her "it's cool to like Michael again", and she nearly beat the shit outta him.

America didn't kill Michael Jackson. The world crucified him for th longest time..and when the man finally succumbed to his wounds...the finger pointing starts. Fuck'em...

Like I said before, in those situations, I love to mention that MJ always moved back to the U.S. every time. Makes them absolutely batshit-crazy with anger then they just try and pretend you never said it .

I wouldn't go as far as hitting someone in a situation like that - I'd just give them a look that made them want to kick their own ass.

Crucify isn't the word I'd use - MJ was no deity - but he was definitely getting it from all sides. The worst stuff was coming from the press outside of the United States, that I do remember. As far as the Anti-American sentiment in the MJ fan community, the post 2009 part is about needing someone to blame yeah, but this was actually an issue on the MJ fan boards, yearsssss before then as well. So it's not purely that.

Having said that, I don't think it's really accurate to say being shat on is what really did him in; honestly I think it's probably more accurate that he had all these other unresolved issues he wasn't dealing with - some physical, some not - that he was trying to cope with by pumping himself full of that shit. Do I think the worldwide hostility toward him contributed? Yeah, I think it definitely didn't help, especially the allegation shit, but I think it was by no means the main factor.

But no, I don't think he 'succumbed' to anything either - I'm one of the ones who believe he's still alive, but that's for another time or perhaps no time, because I know a lot of people here are strongly opposed to the idea that he could still be alive...

The UK & European print press is/was brutal, but the American TV reporting is a whole other kettle of fish. Our 24 hour news networks are getting bad, but never to the extent of bullshit like Court TV and Fox News which is just down right slanderous.