smoothcriminal12 said:

Seriously people. "OMG" and "DJ Got Us Falling In Love Again" is NOT R&B. That is techno. Call it black techno? Fine. But just because Usher's black doesn't make it R&B. The industry has totally screwed up the program, and anyone who claims that racism isn't in the industry anymore is erroneous. I once went to the R&B section of HMV and saw "Maggot Brain" by Funkadelic (arguably rock) and Jimi Hendrix. (rock as well).

When will we get past race? I've even seen Prince albums categorized as R&B just because. It angers me to no end.

[Edited 1/6/12 11:53am]

To quote the man in your avatar, "There's only two types of music, good music and bad music."

Timmy84 said:

Graycap23 said:

Ok.

The sickening fact is it's been commonplace. I just refuse to label it as such. If we're gonna be truthful, people have always said so and so was R&B when they weren't. It's not something that just recently happened.

True.

MickyDolenz said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Just like in awardsshows now they have Best Latin Artist?

The Grammys have had categories like Best Native American Recording and Best Hawaiian Recording. There is also a separate Latin Grammy Awards show. I've never understood the term "world music". Isn't all music made in the world? I haven't seen any Klingon or Martian music in a record store.

True.

smoothcriminal12 said:

MickyDolenz said:

The Grammys have had categories like Best Native American Recording and Best Hawaiian Recording. There is also a separate Latin Grammy Awards show. I've never understood the term "world music". Isn't all music made in the world? I haven't seen any Klingon or Martian music in a record store.

True.

World music implies ethnic non-western/white "third world" exotic music by people playing obscure instruments.

MickyDolenz said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

True.

World music implies ethnic non-western/white "third world" exotic music by people playing obscure instruments.

It sucks though, to see how incredibly West-centric our world still is.

smoothcriminal12 said:

MickyDolenz said:

World music implies ethnic non-western/white "third world" exotic music by people playing obscure instruments.

It sucks though, to see how incredibly West-centric our world still is.

It's the reasoning behind things like National Geographic. Look at the European missionaries and conquerers over the centuries going into places to convert the "primitive & barbaric" natives.

MickyDolenz said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

It sucks though, to see how incredibly West-centric our world still is.

It's the reasoning behind things like National Geographic. Look at the European missionaries and conquerers over the centuries going into places to convert the "primitive & barbaric" natives.

And even though it doesn't really "happen" today, that mentality is still present in the minds of many.

I get what your saying, black people do Pop, white people do R&B. Artists do different kinds of muisc, so what if white boys play funK? what if black guys sing country or do pop? if it's good it's good But there is no common ground appaerently, If you black got to be R&B. And anyone who put Jimi in the damn rock section is just... stupid

There is bad or good music, nothing more or less.

[Edited 1/6/12 14:46pm]

Rihanna, Beyonce, Usher, aren't R&B???????

Oh wait - all you have to do is dig one step deeper and find out about who Kem, Angie Stone, old school R. Kelly, old school Whitney, NeYo, Ledisi (though she's "eh" to me), Scott, Badu, Arie (eh), Soulchild, and Maxwell are...it ain't hard for the people that really want to find it. Let some people be ignorant to the best music that exists.

[Edited 1/6/12 16:11pm]

Gunsnhalen said:

I get what your saying, black people do Pop, white people do R&B. Artists do different kinds of muisc, so what if white boys play funK? what if black guys sing country or do pop? if it's good it's good But there is no common ground appaerently, If you black got to be R&B. And anyone who put Jimi in the damn rock section is just... stupid

There is bad or good music, nothing more or less.

[Edited 1/6/12 14:46pm]

It's called Average White Band.

badujunkie said:

Rihanna, Beyonce, Usher, aren't R&B???????

Oh wait - all you have to do is dig one step deeper and find out about who Kem, Angie Stone, old school R. Kelly, old school Whitney, NeYo, Ledisi (though she's "eh" to me), Scott, Badu, Arie (eh), Soulchild, and Maxwell are...it ain't hard for the people that really want to find it. Let some people be ignorant to the best music that exists.

[Edited 1/6/12 16:11pm]

Chucch lol

Most performers will usually follow the current trend in pop music. The record labels are only interested in selling as many records as possible to a musically dumbed down public. That is their goal, not musical artistry and integrity. Though they will tell you otherwise. The shareholders of the recording industry labels could care less what sounds good.

It wasn't always the case. So now it is up to us the record buying public to stop accepting the bullshit they sell us. If you want really good music, it's worth doing some digging to find out what it really is.
Because someone has won a Grammy or BET award doesn't mean their music is great. Because it's on the radio doesn't mean you have to listen to it. We often accept something mediocre, just because there's nothing good on at the moment.

I'd rather wait twelve years for the next D'Angelo record than listen to most of the crap that's been popular since he was last heard. Not to say that that there hasn't been some great music out. There's been quite a bit. You just most likely won't notice it when you hear it, because you've become accustomed to the taste of that bullshit.

[Edited 1/6/12 17:28pm]

sunlite said:

Most performers will usually follow the current trend in pop music. The record labels are only interested in selling as many records as possible to a musically dumbed down public. That is their goal, not musical artistry and integrity. Though they will tell you otherwise. The shareholders of the recording industry labels could care less what sounds good.

It wasn't always the case.

How can you say that?!

The record industry is an industry; it's a business first.

Point to us a time when record labels weren't interested in selling as many records

as possible, engaging in a battle between artistic integrity and profit?

Here's something else to think about: Mozart, Beethoven - these great composers

wrote music for profit, not for artistic integrity. What do you have to say about

that?

duccichucka said:

sunlite said:

Most performers will usually follow the current trend in pop music. The record labels are only interested in selling as many records as possible to a musically dumbed down public. That is their goal, not musical artistry and integrity. Though they will tell you otherwise. The shareholders of the recording industry labels could care less what sounds good.

It wasn't always the case.

How can you say that?!

The record industry is an industry; it's a business first.

Point to us a time when record labels weren't interested in selling as many records

as possible, engaging in a battle between artistic integrity and profit?

Here's something else to think about: Mozart, Beethoven - these great composers

wrote music for profit, not for artistic integrity. What do you have to say about

that?

Right!

[Edited 1/6/12 18:05pm]

MickyDolenz said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm saying, by industry definitions, "R&B" is now equal to "black music" or "music by black artists."

R&B pretty much always meant music by blacks. That's why other races that recorded it were given labels like blue eyed soul or latin soul. At one point, the R&B chart in Billboard was called Hot Black Singles.

Dang, that's rough. You don't have to be good looking to make great music.

Over the years the idea of R&B music has become extremely muddled. Then when a white chick like Adele releases an album like 21 with elements of Soul and R&B suddenly nobody knows if it actually is R&B or not.

[Edited 1/8/12 7:27am]

smoothcriminal12 said:

Seriously people. "OMG" and "DJ Got Us Falling In Love Again" is NOT R&B. That is techno. Call it black techno? Fine. But just because Usher's black doesn't make it R&B. The industry has totally screwed up the program, and anyone who claims that racism isn't in the industry anymore is erroneous. I once went to the R&B section of HMV and saw "Maggot Brain" by Funkadelic (arguably rock) and Jimi Hendrix. (rock as well).

When will we get past race? I've even seen Prince albums categorized as R&B just because. It angers me to no end.

[Edited 1/6/12 11:53am]

Think of it this way, as long as people discriminate against fat people because of size, there's no reason to think people will not discriminate because of color.

duccichucka said:

sunlite said:

Most performers will usually follow the current trend in pop music. The record labels are only interested in selling as many records as possible to a musically dumbed down public. That is their goal, not musical artistry and integrity. Though they will tell you otherwise. The shareholders of the recording industry labels could care less what sounds good.

It wasn't always the case.

How can you say that?!

The record industry is an industry; it's a business first.

Point to us a time when record labels weren't interested in selling as many records

as possible, engaging in a battle between artistic integrity and profit?

Here's something else to think about: Mozart, Beethoven - these great composers

wrote music for profit, not for artistic integrity. What do you have to say about

that?

Of course it's always been a business. I'm just stating that there was time when labels let their artists mature into better acts. Prince is a prime example of this. Today if you don't have a huge hit straight away, it can end your career. No chance for growth.

Stevie Wonder asserted control over his artistic future by exercising his right to leave Motown Records on his 21st birthday, May 13, 1971. Of course Berry Gordy didn't want to give it to him. Eventually, Berry Gordy relented, agreeing to a new contract that granted Stevie Wonder total creative control over his music and the rights to his own master recordings. As it did for Marvin Gaye, this arrangement led to the period of Stevie Wonder's greatest critical and popular success.

Basically my point is that labels were willing to invest in the growth potential of artists with real musical merit. Today not so much.

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

It wasn't misleading, I said it in the original post that R&B is now just "music by black artists."

No it ain't. It ain't R&B. It's pop. Let's be real here man.

[Edited 1/6/12 12:05pm]

thing is now we are more in a box with music and labelled than before. It makes me laugh when people say we are more "free" now overall because the genres mix and people date more races etc...but the music and movies are so polarized now you are either this or that.

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, by industry definitions, "R&B" is now equal to "black music" or "music by black artists."

FUCK the industry. And besides you're just preaching the choir here. People have been saying this the last five, six, seven, maybe ten years.

A broken record. An also did you know water is wet?

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

FUCK the industry. And besides you're just preaching the choir here. People have been saying this the last five, six, seven, maybe ten years.

A broken record. An also did you know water is wet?

And the grass is green too.

Timmy84 said:

babybugz said:

A broken record. An also did you know water is wet?

And the grass is green too.

And at times I hear the sky is blue.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

And the grass is green too.

And at times I hear the sky is blue.

So what y'all want, a Beyonce thread? Lawd knows we have enough of those.

smoothcriminal12 said:

So what y'all want, a Beyonce thread? Lawd knows we have enough of those.

Dude, we have enough of both types. Yeah you're dealing with a bunch of ORG old timers who are bored.

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

So what y'all want, a Beyonce thread? Lawd knows we have enough of those.

Dude, we have enough of both types. Yeah you're dealing with a bunch of ORG old timers who are bored.

What you from, 2007? Psssh.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Dude, we have enough of both types. Yeah you're dealing with a bunch of ORG old timers who are bored.

What you from, 2007? Psssh.

Yes I am. Problem?

[Edited 1/7/12 18:04pm]

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

What you from, 2007? Psssh.

Yes I am. Problem?

[Edited 1/7/12 18:04pm]

You ain't THAT old time.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Yes I am. Problem?

[Edited 1/7/12 18:04pm]

You ain't THAT old time.

Looking at THIS site I feel like it with some of you...