Seriously people. "OMG" and "DJ Got Us Falling In Love Again" is NOT R&B. That is techno. Call it black techno? Fine. But just because Usher's black doesn't make it R&B. The industry has totally screwed up the program, and anyone who claims that racism isn't in the industry anymore is erroneous. I once went to the R&B section of HMV and saw "Maggot Brain" by Funkadelic (arguably rock) and Jimi Hendrix. (rock as well).

When will we get past race? I've even seen Prince albums categorized as R&B just because. It angers me to no end.

[Edited 1/6/12 11:53am]

you're thread title was a bit misleading, wasn't expecting this, but yes, brace yourself racism is not going anywhere as long as there are humans. now how we go about expanding listenens' horizons beyond the way a record store chooses to categorize their store (it seems totally arbitrary) is a different animal altogether

datdude said:

you're thread title was a bit misleading, wasn't expecting this, but yes, brace yourself racism is not going anywhere as long as there are humans. now how we go about expanding listenens' horizons beyond the way a record store chooses to categorize their store (it seems totally arbitrary) is a different animal altogether

It wasn't misleading, I said it in the original post that R&B is now just "music by black artists."

smoothcriminal12 said:

datdude said:

you're thread title was a bit misleading, wasn't expecting this, but yes, brace yourself racism is not going anywhere as long as there are humans. now how we go about expanding listenens' horizons beyond the way a record store chooses to categorize their store (it seems totally arbitrary) is a different animal altogether

It wasn't misleading, I said it in the original post that R&B is now just "music by black artists."

No it ain't. It ain't R&B. It's pop. Let's be real here man.

[Edited 1/6/12 12:05pm]

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

It wasn't misleading, I said it in the original post that R&B is now just "music by black artists."

No it ain't. It ain't R&B. It's pop. Let's be real here man.

[Edited 1/6/12 12:05pm]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, by industry definitions, "R&B" is now equal to "black music" or "music by black artists."

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

No it ain't. It ain't R&B. It's pop. Let's be real here man.

[Edited 1/6/12 12:05pm]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, by industry definitions, "R&B" is now equal to "black music" or "music by black artists."

FUCK the industry. And besides you're just preaching the choir here. People have been saying this the last five, six, seven, maybe ten years.

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, by industry definitions, "R&B" is now equal to "black music" or "music by black artists."

FUCK the industry. And besides you're just preaching the choir here. People have been saying this the last five, six, seven, maybe ten years.

I'm quite aware, but I feel the need to reinforce the idea, mainly for personal ranting purposes.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

FUCK the industry. And besides you're just preaching the choir here. People have been saying this the last five, six, seven, maybe ten years.

I'm quite aware, but I feel the need to reinforce the idea, mainly for personal ranting purposes.

Eh, I'm indifferent. It's like "alright we know". Like hello? Like a billion people have said this already. Hell they said that about all music denigrated to stupidity. So what else is new? And yet half of us don't buy real R&B but complain that R&B ain't being supported. Just saying...

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm quite aware, but I feel the need to reinforce the idea, mainly for personal ranting purposes.

Eh, I'm indifferent. It's like "alright we know". Like hello? Like a billion people have said this already. Hell they said that about all music denigrated to stupidity. So what else is new? And yet half of us don't buy real R&B but complain that R&B ain't being supported. Just saying...

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Eh, I'm indifferent. It's like "alright we know". Like hello? Like a billion people have said this already. Hell they said that about all music denigrated to stupidity. So what else is new? And yet half of us don't buy real R&B but complain that R&B ain't being supported. Just saying...

Shit you know I'm right. I think personally we spend more time complaining than actually supporting. It's human nature with music buyers in the U.S. to be fickle. It just seems to repeat itself.

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm saying, by industry definitions, "R&B" is now equal to "black music" or "music by black artists."

R&B pretty much always meant music by blacks. That's why other races that recorded it were given labels like blue eyed soul or latin soul. At one point, the R&B chart in Billboard was called Hot Black Singles.

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Shit you know I'm right. I think personally we spend more time complaining than actually supporting. It's human nature with music buyers in the U.S. to be fickle. It just seems to repeat itself.

Yeah, you are right. But it's hard to be "supportive" when you're spoon fed crap music. I mean, yeah, you can buy the good music, but how many people will know about it and make an effort to get it? For example, Janelle Monae. Who knows who she is? WE as the org can buy all we want, but our impact isn't shit in the end.

MickyDolenz said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm saying, by industry definitions, "R&B" is now equal to "black music" or "music by black artists."

R&B pretty much always meant music by blacks. That's why other races that recorded it were given labels like blue eyed soul or latin soul. At one point, the R&B chart in Billboard was called Hot Black Singles.

Just like in awardsshows now they have Best Latin Artist?

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Shit you know I'm right. I think personally we spend more time complaining than actually supporting. It's human nature with music buyers in the U.S. to be fickle. It just seems to repeat itself.

Yeah, you are right. But it's hard to be "supportive" when you're spoon fed crap music. I mean, yeah, you can buy the good music, but how many people will know about it and make an effort to get it? For example, Janelle Monae. Who knows who she is? WE as the org can buy all we want, but our impact isn't shit in the end.

But why should it matter? I say fuck anybody that even labels what, just listen to what you feel is natural. That's all we can do and if not everyone appreciates it, forget it, let them come when they come. I'm just sick and tired of co-signing the same argument about this.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Seriously people. "OMG" and "DJ Got Us Falling In Love Again" is NOT R&B. That is techno. Call it black techno? Fine. But just because Usher's black doesn't make it R&B. The industry has totally screwed up the program, and anyone who claims that racism isn't in the industry anymore is erroneous. I once went to the R&B section of HMV and saw "Maggot Brain" by Funkadelic (arguably rock) and Jimi Hendrix. (rock as well).

When will we get past race? I've even seen Prince albums categorized as R&B just because. It angers me to no end.

[Edited 1/6/12 11:53am]

I think you should be excoriating the quality of the music categorized as R&B instead of

the category itself.

Why?

Humans use language, or categories, in order to explain or make sense of reality. It's

the quality of R&B music today that is troubling.

But I get your pissed-offedness.

duccichucka said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Seriously people. "OMG" and "DJ Got Us Falling In Love Again" is NOT R&B. That is techno. Call it black techno? Fine. But just because Usher's black doesn't make it R&B. The industry has totally screwed up the program, and anyone who claims that racism isn't in the industry anymore is erroneous. I once went to the R&B section of HMV and saw "Maggot Brain" by Funkadelic (arguably rock) and Jimi Hendrix. (rock as well).

When will we get past race? I've even seen Prince albums categorized as R&B just because. It angers me to no end.

[Edited 1/6/12 11:53am]

I think you should be excoriating the quality of the music categorized as R&B instead of

the category itself.

Why?

Humans use language, or categories, in order to explain or make sense of reality. It's

the quality of R&B music today that is troubling.

But I get your pissed-offedness.

It's the race part that gets me more than anything, but yeah.

It is what it is. We do it too. Labeling anything with a black face as "R&B/black music". So HMV ain't the only store to do this. Everyone does it.

There's no past tense in this equation.

Segregation has always been the backbone of the industry as far as how they "classify" their artists.

And Timmy, if by "everyone does it" means that everyone passively ACCEPT IT, then yeah. Because it sure as hell not everyone makes the rules, otherwise, the OP and the rest of us would be singing a different tune.

Harlepolis said:

There's no past tense in this equation.

Segregation has always been the backbone of the industry as far as how they "classify" their artists.

And Timmy, if by "everyone does it" means that everyone passively ACCEPT IT, then yeah. Because it sure as hell not everyone makes the rules, otherwise, the OP and the rest of us would be singing a different tune.

I meant in general in terms of everybody, really. Not "everyone" in meaning everybody.

Terrib3Towel said:

Didn't the R&B charts used to be called Black Charts? So this is nothing new. And while we're on it, I really hate the term 'neo-soul' like seriously, WTF?? It's nothing but people trying too hard to be "unique" singing R&B/Soul.

Yeah. I still don't get the neo soul tag. It's just R&B/soul to me.

This is what happens when folks like Iovine and Clive davis controls "black" music.

Graycap23 said:

This is what happens when folks like Iovine and Clive davis controls "black" music.

More like the industry has been for the last 50 years. Motown was one of the only labels to blur the lines between "black" and "white" but it was never fully appreciated...

[Edited 1/6/12 13:01pm]

Timmy84 said:

Graycap23 said:

This is what happens when folks like Iovine and Clive davis controls "black" music.

More like the industry has been for the last 50 years.

Ok.

Graycap23 said:

Timmy84 said:

More like the industry has been for the last 50 years.

Ok.

The sickening fact is it's been commonplace. I just refuse to label it as such. If we're gonna be truthful, people have always said so and so was R&B when they weren't. It's not something that just recently happened.

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Yeah, you are right. But it's hard to be "supportive" when you're spoon fed crap music. I mean, yeah, you can buy the good music, but how many people will know about it and make an effort to get it? For example, Janelle Monae. Who knows who she is? WE as the org can buy all we want, but our impact isn't shit in the end.

But why should it matter? I say fuck anybody that even labels what, just listen to what you feel is natural. That's all we can do and if not everyone appreciates it, forget it, let them come when they come. I'm just sick and tired of co-signing the same argument about this.

Because it is DESTROYING the music industry, since this is a quote on quote legit music conscious site (not really) and we all consider ourselves to be real music lovers....

Why not talk about it when it is a prominent issue?

Thats just like people when they say slavery was 500 years ago and hate when people talk about it, dont want people to talk about the bad part of America instead they rather talk about dumb shit that are lies instead of factual information

Yes this is a redundant topic but it is evolving to something quite more serious. And plus this is a music board this issue is important to music WHY NOT discuss it? This is suppose to be an avenue for unpopular topics and opinions. If YOU dont want to co sign or talk about it... THE DONT bro nobody is making you comment on something you dont want to.

However, that does not minimize the issue just because you dont want to talk about it or tired of it.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Timmy84 said:

Shit you know I'm right. I think personally we spend more time complaining than actually supporting. It's human nature with music buyers in the U.S. to be fickle. It just seems to repeat itself.

Yeah, you are right. But it's hard to be "supportive" when you're spoon fed crap music. I mean, yeah, you can buy the good music, but how many people will know about it and make an effort to get it? For example, Janelle Monae. Who knows who she is? WE as the org can buy all we want, but our impact isn't shit in the end.

There is nothing wrong with being outspoken about something you know is not right or have a problem with if others choose to be non chalant about it then that is them... I agree with you and nice thread topic. I understand your ranting.. cause I do it all the time

This is why I dig the fact that Kool & The Gang is the special guest on the upcoming Van Halen tour. Van Halen don't care about all that bs! Of course the VH fans are up in arms over this. I'm sure they would prefer some other classic rock act or newer band that passes for rock these days(just like Usher passes for r n b)!!!

sunlite said:

This is why I dig the fact that Kool & The Gang is the special guest on the upcoming Van Halen tour. Van Halen don't care about all that bs! Of course the VH fans are up in arms over this. I'm sure they would prefer some other classic rock act or newer band that passes for rock these days(just like Usher passes for r n b)!!!

Cool.

smoothcriminal12 said:

MickyDolenz said:

R&B pretty much always meant music by blacks. That's why other races that recorded it were given labels like blue eyed soul or latin soul. At one point, the R&B chart in Billboard was called Hot Black Singles.

Just like in awardsshows now they have Best Latin Artist?

The Grammys have had categories like Best Native American Recording and Best Hawaiian Recording. There is also a separate Latin Grammy Awards show. I've never understood the term "world music". Isn't all music made in the world? I haven't seen any Klingon or Martian music in a record store.