I Find it a bit silly, these hair banders still whine about how grunge killed hair metal. I just saw Tracii Guns on that metal show & he mentioned it, Don Dokken a few months back also whined baout how ''grunge'' people can't play solos. It wasn't really just grunge Pantera came out with Cowbody From Hell came out & was huge, Metallicas black album was beyond huge, Skid Row Slave To The Grind also went to number 1

Anthrax where getting bigger, Faith No More & Red Hot Chili Peppers, and alternative bands like My Bloody Valentine

Basically it seemed audiences wanted something heavier, or funkier or edgier. It wasn't just grunge all these other forms of rock which where underground in the 80's now where getting big. There is no way only grunge did this, besides by 1991 any who what hair bands where getting a lot of play? in 1990 Warrant, Cinderella, Poison & firehouse had a few singles. But besides them hair metal wasn't blowing up radio....

Plus as much as i love hair metal, great musicians, flashy solos. I have to agree with what members of ANthrax said, Hair metal a lot of it didn't have a lot of substance. It's party tock with a ballad or 2, it's fun music but by the 90's audiences wanted something edgier

just my 2 pennys & a bag of chips

I don't know if grunge killed it but by 1992/1993 nearly all of those bands had either broken up or radically altered their sound. It's definitely true that mainstream rock music was getting a bit stale and boring by the late '80s/early '90s and it needed a kick in the ass, which grunge provided, but then things went much too far in the other direction. It wasn't healthy when every band was imitating Motley Crue and the glam music of the seventies but it also wasn't healthy when everyone startied imitating Nirvana and the "Seattle" bands. It seems like in the last twenty-five years or so that the variety and vitality has completely been drained from guitar based music. In the past you would have different genres of rock music that could thrive at the same time but now we just get a few innovators and then too many bands just copy them. It is extremely tedious. In the '90s I liked buying new albums by Soundgarden and Pearl Jam but it sucked that bands like Extreme and Tesla broke up. In general the rock music of the '90s was much too serious and I really missed the fun and irreverance of the "hair metal" bands.

Just look at the seventies by comparison. There was so much variety in rock music yet it all co-existed and no one type dominated. I really appreciate variety and do not want to have tons of crappy clone bands clogging the airwaves. Unfortunately that is what we got for most of the last twenty-five years or so.

[Edited 1/3/12 5:32am]

[Edited 1/3/12 5:37am]

Grunge killing the Hair bands was just the tip of the iceberg. It was a huge deconstruction, yes, but in general, in 1991 the WHOLE industry changed. You can say that 1968-1988 was a big block, 1989-90 pure transition, and then a WHOLE new block started in 1991, a block that still has not finished, I mean, Adele could have appeared in 1995 , Lady Gaga in 1996, Arcade Fire in 1998, and the mid-tempo rap genre was already established in 1992/93 by Dre...

Generally speaking, every genre changed: the productions were tighter, more agressive, very young new artists/bands appeared and MANY of the veteran acts/bands disappeared during the early 90s, suffered painful transformations or suffered a big drop in sales. I can understand why veteran fans of the 70s and 80s were hostile, it was like "who the hell are these young brats?" New Jack devoured shit-dance and traditional funk/urban, Grunge devoured Hair-Metal; Death, Stoner, Industrial, Doom and Black Metal devoured traditional metal and 70s-like Hard-Rock, Electronic music finally reached mainstream success, etc. etc. Also, new fans appeared, young people (some spoiled, some too cynical/angry) that despised or ignored pre-1991 music...It was a dramatic change folks!

I think Hair Metal was a symbol of the late-80s (machismo, groupies, tongue-in-check lyrics, "have fun rock hard", "money means power", "I want a Billboard hit", etc), and bands like Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Pixies, Smashing Pumpinks, Alice in Chains,etc. LOATHED that style and philosophy. It was a musical deconstruction (in your face production, deeper lyrics, guts, etc) but also a social revolution, against the whole Reagan/Tatcher years, the "me generation", the "greed is good", the yuppie culture, the "I wanna be a star" bullshit. IT WAS THE X GEN TAKIN' OVA PEOPLE!!! and yeah, it was cool, at least until the mid-90s, when the Clinton Administration changed things again, for the better (at least for some 5-6 very good years in terms of jobs/economy), and people wanted something upbeat and more ironic, not depressing/drop dead serious; that's why I say that grunge/alternative define the early-90s (revolution, struggle, new faces/new sounds), britpop the mid-90s ("hey, the world is still a very flawed place, but I'm doing fine, so I guess I can have some fun"), and electronic music/teen pop the late-90s (excess and brainless party all over again).

And I do agree that every genre has its 8-10 great bands, and then 20 crappy clones. Alternative/grunge was no exception. In many ways, the late-90s "female singer/songwriter" genre was the last grunge sub-genre (and a crappy one, sorry, but it's the truth, lol)

[Edited 1/3/12 9:16am]

I do wonder if a band like Mother Love Bone had stuck around and made it big if that would have made any difference. I think they are a bit overrated but musically they were certainly quite a bit different than the other Seattle/Grunge bands. Pearl Jam had a bit of a classic rock sound to them, particularly on Ten, but Eddie Vedder can be a bit too serious and intense. Soundgarden had a bit of Black Sabbath/heavy metal in their sound but again they were also quite serious. Mother Love Bone had a very "fun" sound that was clearly indebted to '70s rock. Had they made it big maybe '90s rock bands would not have been as one dimensional as they were.

It really made me a bit depressed to hear Def Leppard do an album like Slang or Extreme do something like Waiting for the Punchline. It also seemed extremely pointless. Fans of younger/newer bands surely were never going to be interested in hearing those albums and the shift in sound alienated their core audience. It would have been great if at least a few bands made it through the '90s without breaking up or changing their sound. I guess arguably Bon Jovi did but I'm not a huge fan of them so they do not count.

Again, I do not want to sound like I hated early '90s rock, I actually liked quite a bit of it. The thing that bugs me is that since then we haven't really had much in the way of new styles or sounds in rock music. There are some exceptions but for the most part bands are either still mimicking that sound or they are mimicking sounds from even further back. It's well past time that we a new sound and movement in the field of rock.

rialb said:

I do wonder if a band like Mother Love Bone had stuck around and made it big if that would have made any difference. I think they are a bit overrated but musically they were certainly quite a bit different than the other Seattle/Grunge bands. Pearl Jam had a bit of a classic rock sound to them, particularly on Ten, but Eddie Vedder can be a bit too serious and intense. Soundgarden had a bit of Black Sabbath/heavy metal in their sound but again they were also quite serious. Mother Love Bone had a very "fun" sound that was clearly indebted to '70s rock. Had they made it big maybe '90s rock bands would not have been as one dimensional as they were.

It really made me a bit depressed to hear Def Leppard do an album like Slang or Extreme do something like Waiting for the Punchline. It also seemed extremely pointless. Fans of younger/newer bands surely were never going to be interested in hearing those albums and the shift in sound alienated their core audience. It would have been great if at least a few bands made it through the '90s without breaking up or changing their sound. I guess arguably Bon Jovi did but I'm not a huge fan of them so they do not count.

Again, I do not want to sound like I hated early '90s rock, I actually liked quite a bit of it. The thing that bugs me is that since then we haven't really had much in the way of new styles or sounds in rock music. There are some exceptions but for the most part bands are either still mimicking that sound or they are mimicking sounds from even further back. It's well past time that we a new sound and movement in the field of rock.

the truth is that rock was NEVER meant to be "funny". There's a big difference between "funny" and "powerful, entertaining, upbeat, kick-ass"

Elvis' mid-50s albums (ballads being the exception) were upbeat BUT also edgy and badass (at that time), The Rolling Stones were nasty as the devil, Chcuk Berry the devil himself, Black Sabbath scary, Deep Purple brutal and intense (Mark II, at least), Led Zeppelin serious as gods, The Velvet Underground as depressing as Nirvana, The Stooges sharp as a razor, Aerosmith never truly wrote a pure "let's have some fun" song (perhaps Walk This Way is the expection) etc. etc. I think that the "fun rock" trend didn't really start until the late-70s, with new power-pop bands; hell Motley Crue's Shout at the Devil is an edgy album, Appetite for Destruction is a dangerous album, late-70s/early-80s metal was dark as the night...

So the whole "party, fun rock" didn't start until the mid-to-late 80s, and it hasn't aged well ("ok boys, here we go, the power-ballad, the fun fun fun rock single and 8 fillers, and that's it, that's the album")

You can say that KISS were the true masterminds behind the whole "Party and Rock" thing, but, being the "fathers" of the genre (at least since Rock and Roll Al Night), they are also the most respectable/enjoyable. Surf was also (mostly) about fun and girls and that's why many people consider it dated and unworthy now (and then!, lol)

Alternative/grunge was powerful, perhaps too murky/serious, but certainly powerful, and you can say that they brought rock back: a serious, powerful kind of music...

[Edited 1/3/12 11:07am]

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

I do wonder if a band like Mother Love Bone had stuck around and made it big if that would have made any difference. I think they are a bit overrated but musically they were certainly quite a bit different than the other Seattle/Grunge bands. Pearl Jam had a bit of a classic rock sound to them, particularly on Ten, but Eddie Vedder can be a bit too serious and intense. Soundgarden had a bit of Black Sabbath/heavy metal in their sound but again they were also quite serious. Mother Love Bone had a very "fun" sound that was clearly indebted to '70s rock. Had they made it big maybe '90s rock bands would not have been as one dimensional as they were.

It really made me a bit depressed to hear Def Leppard do an album like Slang or Extreme do something like Waiting for the Punchline. It also seemed extremely pointless. Fans of younger/newer bands surely were never going to be interested in hearing those albums and the shift in sound alienated their core audience. It would have been great if at least a few bands made it through the '90s without breaking up or changing their sound. I guess arguably Bon Jovi did but I'm not a huge fan of them so they do not count.

Again, I do not want to sound like I hated early '90s rock, I actually liked quite a bit of it. The thing that bugs me is that since then we haven't really had much in the way of new styles or sounds in rock music. There are some exceptions but for the most part bands are either still mimicking that sound or they are mimicking sounds from even further back. It's well past time that we a new sound and movement in the field of rock.

the truth is that rock was NEVER meant to be "funny". There's a big difference between "funny" and "powerful, entertaining, upbeat, kick-ass"

Elvis' mid-50s albums (ballads being the exception) were upbeat BUT also edgy and badass (at that time), The Rolling Stones were nasty as the devil, Black Sabbath scary, Deep Purple brutal and intense (Mark II, at least), Led Zeppelin serious as gods, The Velvet Underground as depressing as Nirvana, The Stooges sharp as a razor, Aerosmith never truly wrote a pure "let's have some fun" song (perhaps Walk This Way is the expection) etc. etc. I think that the "fun rock" trend didn't really start until the late-70s, with new power-pop bands; hell Motley Crue's Shout at the Devil is an edgy album, Appetite for Destruction is a dangerous album, late-70s/early-80s metal was dark as the night...

So the whole "party, fun rock" never started until the mid-to-late 80s, and it hasn't aged well. You can say that KISS were the true masterminds behind the whole "Party and Rock" thing, but, being the "fathers" of the genre (at least since Rock and Roll Al Night), they are also the most respectable/enjoyable. Alternative/grunge was powerful, perhaps to murky/serious, but certainly powerful, and you can say that they brought rock back: a serious, powerful kind of music...

Nah, the '80s "hair bands" were basically just doing a slightly updated version of '70s glam rock. Look at Great White and their biggest hit (a note for note cover of an Ian Hunter song from 1975).

There was always upbeat, fun rock music going back to the '50s. Look at Chuck Berry. Many people consider his music to be one of the basic blueprints of rock and many of his songs were fun and upbeat. How about the British Invasion bands? Even the hard rock/heavy metal of the late '60s/early '70s was much "funner" than '90s rock. Punk? There was a lot of anger there but many of those bands were doing something similar to the garage bands of the '60s which musically was fairly upbeat.

I get your point about aggression being a big part of the sound of rock music, whatever the decade, but one of the things about '90s rock is that much of it was slowed down. Aggressive and fast? I can get with that. Aggressive and slow? That kind of becomes boring in high doses.

what I'm tryin' to say, lol is that the "Fun Rock" thing became a genre during the mid-80s, and new (crappy) bands appeared which ONLY wrote songs about Hollywood, girls, fun, party, cars and "I wanna make it big", that was BULLSHIT

so, in the mid-80s you could hear quality metal and hard-rock, but suddenly everything was about fun, party, girls and MTV hits

of course that serious rock fans were disappointed. Hell, any serious rock fan will tell you that Def Leppard lost it after Pyromania...

Also, in the end, EVERYTHING is about the lyrics

Satisfaction is a fun, upbeat song, but the lyrics deal with something deeper than just a catchy riff

but you CAN'T (shouldn't) write 10 literal songs about sex, girls and party, something that Poison did, with the obvious/dire backlash "only" 5 years later.

JoeTyler said:

what I'm tryin' to say, lol is that the "Fun Rock" thing became a genre during the mid-80s, and new (crappy) bands appeared which ONLY wrote songs about Hollywood, girls, fun, party, cars and "I wanna make it big", that was BULLSHIT

so, in the mid-80s you could hear quality metal and hard-rock, but suddenly everything was about fun, party, girls and MTV hits

of course that serious rock fans were disappointed. Hell, any serious rock fan will tell you that Def Leppard lost it after Pyromania...

Oh, I can agree that things got much too basic and repetitive in mainstream '80s rock, no doubt about that. But very quickly it got just as bad in the '90s. Maybe the bigger '90s bands had more depth than the big '80s bands but the '90s clones were just as bad as the '80s clones. At least in the '80s there was a decent underground scene where you had an, ahem, alternative, to the "hair metal" bands that were dominating the mainstream. In the '90s if you wanted to hear basic rock music there was no underground. By the end of the '90s there were the Black Crowes and not much else.

JoeTyler said:

Also, in the end, EVERYTHING is about the lyrics

Satisfaction is a fun, upbeat song, but the lyrics deal with something deeper than just a catchy riff

but you CAN'T (shouldn't) write 10 literal songs about sex, girls and party, something that Poison did, with the obvious/dire backlash "only" 5 years later.

Feh, 99% of lyrics in any genre are absolute garbage. I love Kiss but if you actually pay attention to any of Gene's lyrics you will want to hang yourself.

Besides, you are forgetting about Poison's amazing message songs ("something to Believe in").

[Edited 1/3/12 11:27am]

I also believe that the hardcore fans of fun hair-metal (I'm talking about people that still hear the stuff of Danger Danger, Poison, etc ) were, mostly, not very bright white girls (now women) with HEAVY daddy issues, and guys that didn't care for metal or harder rock.

I ALSO think that the hardcore fans of grunge were just spoiled young kids pretending that their lives were miserable (even with a SuperNintendo and a good education, a home, food everyday etc.) or just plain dark, weird, super-shy guys, "I hate myself and I hate the world", lollololol

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

what I'm tryin' to say, lol is that the "Fun Rock" thing became a genre during the mid-80s, and new (crappy) bands appeared which ONLY wrote songs about Hollywood, girls, fun, party, cars and "I wanna make it big", that was BULLSHIT

so, in the mid-80s you could hear quality metal and hard-rock, but suddenly everything was about fun, party, girls and MTV hits

of course that serious rock fans were disappointed. Hell, any serious rock fan will tell you that Def Leppard lost it after Pyromania...

Oh, I can agree that things got much too basic and repetitive in mainstream '80s rock, no doubt about that. But very quickly it got just as bad in the '90s. Maybe the bigger '90s bands had more depth than the big '80s bands but the '90s clones were just as bad as the '80s clones. At least in the '80s there was a decent underground scene where you had an, ahem, alternative, to the "hair metal" bands that were dominating the mainstream. In the '90s if you wanted to hear basic rock music there was no underground. By the end of the '90s there were the Black Crowes and not much else.

oh I agree and I agree, the vast majority of the second-rate grunge bands were just plain unlistenable, including overrated as FUCK AS HELL AS SHIT bands like Counting Crows. And yeah, the underground DIED when the underground became MAINSTREAM, for obvious reasons, lol

JoeTyler said:

I also believe that the hardcore fans of fun hair-metal (I'm talking about people that still hear the stuff of Danger Danger, Poison, etc ) were, mostly, not very bright white girls (now women) with HEAVY daddy issues, and guys that didn't care for metal or harder rock.

I ALSO think that the hardcore fans of grunge were just spoiled young kids pretending that their lives were miserable (even with a SuperNintendo and a good education, a home, food everyday etc.) or just plain dark, weird, super-shy guys, "I hate myself and I hate the world", lollololol

I don't think I ever hated the world but otherwise that was me in the early-mid '90s! Except at that time I was listening to AC/DC, Megadeth, Anthrax, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple and not much else.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

Also, in the end, EVERYTHING is about the lyrics

Satisfaction is a fun, upbeat song, but the lyrics deal with something deeper than just a catchy riff

but you CAN'T (shouldn't) write 10 literal songs about sex, girls and party, something that Poison did, with the obvious/dire backlash "only" 5 years later.

Feh, 99% of lyrics in any genre are absolute garbage. I love Kiss but if you actually pay attention to any of Gene's lyrics you will want to hang yourself.

Besides, you are forgetting about Poison's amazing message songs ("something to Believe in").

[Edited 1/3/12 11:27am]

and Every Rose Has Its Thorn, they knew women better than Freud!!!

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

Oh, I can agree that things got much too basic and repetitive in mainstream '80s rock, no doubt about that. But very quickly it got just as bad in the '90s. Maybe the bigger '90s bands had more depth than the big '80s bands but the '90s clones were just as bad as the '80s clones. At least in the '80s there was a decent underground scene where you had an, ahem, alternative, to the "hair metal" bands that were dominating the mainstream. In the '90s if you wanted to hear basic rock music there was no underground. By the end of the '90s there were the Black Crowes and not much else.

oh I agree and I agree, the vast majority of the second-rate grunge bands were just plain unlistenable, including overrated as FUCK AS HELL AS SHIT bands like Counting Crows. And yeah, the underground DIED when the underground became MAINSTREAM, for obvious reasons, lol

I mentioned this earlier but the downside of the '90s was once the "alternative" music became mainstream it just seemed like the creativity died. There's nothing wrong with bands mining the past for inspiration as long as they create good music but we really haven't had any new sounds in rock music in about twenty years. I guess the last big thing was supposed to be the merging of rock and electronica but that never really panned out. We are in desperate need of something, anything, new in rock music.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

I also believe that the hardcore fans of fun hair-metal (I'm talking about people that still hear the stuff of Danger Danger, Poison, etc ) were, mostly, not very bright white girls (now women) with HEAVY daddy issues, and guys that didn't care for metal or harder rock.

I ALSO think that the hardcore fans of grunge were just spoiled young kids pretending that their lives were miserable (even with a SuperNintendo and a good education, a home, food everyday etc.) or just plain dark, weird, super-shy guys, "I hate myself and I hate the world", lollololol

I don't think I ever hated the world but otherwise that was me in the early-mid '90s! Except at that time I was listening to AC/DC, Megadeth, Anthrax, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple and not much else.

hahah! I was just like that as well until I discovered Bowie in the late-90s, then I learned to be dark and odd but also cool and confident, lol for a couple of years I just pretended I was the Thin White Duke, but without the cocaine

[Edited 1/3/12 11:34am]

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

I don't think I ever hated the world but otherwise that was me in the early-mid '90s! Except at that time I was listening to AC/DC, Megadeth, Anthrax, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple and not much else.

hahah! I was just like that as well until I discovered Bowie in the late-90s, then I learned to be dark and odd but also cool and confident, lol for a couple of years I just pretended I was the Thin White Duke, but without the cocaine

[Edited 1/3/12 11:34am]

The Thin White Duke without cocaine is like a bird without wings or a bell that never rings. Just a sad and useless thing.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

oh I agree and I agree, the vast majority of the second-rate grunge bands were just plain unlistenable, including overrated as FUCK AS HELL AS SHIT bands like Counting Crows. And yeah, the underground DIED when the underground became MAINSTREAM, for obvious reasons, lol

I mentioned this earlier but the downside of the '90s was once the "alternative" music became mainstream it just seemed like the creativity died. There's nothing wrong with bands mining the past for inspiration as long as they create good music but we really haven't had any new sounds in rock music in about twenty years. I guess the last big thing was supposed to be the merging of rock and electronica but that never really panned out. We are in desperate need of something, anything, new in rock music.

I seriously think that THIS IS THE END OF THE ROAD. No new sounds anymore, no new genres. Just new good albums here and... there??

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

hahah! I was just like that as well until I discovered Bowie in the late-90s, then I learned to be dark and odd but also cool and confident, lol for a couple of years I just pretended I was the Thin White Duke, but without the cocaine

[Edited 1/3/12 11:34am]

The Thin White Duke without cocaine is like a bird without wings or a bell that never rings. Just a sad and useless thing.

harsh! ,lol it helped me to overcome my (now dead) shyness

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

I mentioned this earlier but the downside of the '90s was once the "alternative" music became mainstream it just seemed like the creativity died. There's nothing wrong with bands mining the past for inspiration as long as they create good music but we really haven't had any new sounds in rock music in about twenty years. I guess the last big thing was supposed to be the merging of rock and electronica but that never really panned out. We are in desperate need of something, anything, new in rock music.

I seriously think that THIS IS THE END OF THE ROAD. No new sounds anymore, no new genres. Just new good albums here and... there??

Maybe. I was optimistic up until about 2005 until I realised that virtually every new band was just reviving something from the past. There are some semi new sounds on the fringes but as far as the mainstream goes it is all just mining the past, nothing new.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

I seriously think that THIS IS THE END OF THE ROAD. No new sounds anymore, no new genres. Just new good albums here and... there??

Maybe. I was optimistic up until about 2005 until I realised that virtually every new band was just reviving something from the past. There are some semi new sounds on the fringes but as far as the mainstream goes it is all just mining the past, nothing new.

yeah, this is it, it's over, no new sounds, the final frontier, finisterra, face it, lol proof that in 2012 the Earth disappears

Well, we certainly managed to completely derail this thread.

rialb said:

Well, we certainly managed to completely derail this thread.

I think we turned this thread into a SUCCESS and one of the contenders for "thread of the month"

Time killed hair metal, just as it kills every style

Gunsnhalen said:

I Find it a bit silly, these hair banders still whine about how grunge killed hair metal. I just saw Tracii Guns on that metal show & he mentioned it, Don Dokken a few months back also whined baout how ''grunge'' people can't play solos. It wasn't really just grunge Pantera came out with Cowbody From Hell came out & was huge, Metallicas black album was beyond huge, Skid Row Slave To The Grind also went to number 1

Anthrax where getting bigger, Faith No More & Red Hot Chili Peppers, and alternative bands like My Bloody Valentine

Basically it seemed audiences wanted something heavier, or funkier or edgier. It wasn't just grunge all these other forms of rock which where underground in the 80's now where getting big. There is no way only grunge did this, besides by 1991 any who what hair bands where getting a lot of play? in 1990 Warrant, Cinderella, Poison & firehouse had a few singles. But besides them hair metal wasn't blowing up radio....

Plus as much as i love hair metal, great musicians, flashy solos. I have to agree with what members of ANthrax said, Hair metal a lot of it didn't have a lot of substance. It's party tock with a ballad or 2, it's fun music but by the 90's audiences wanted something edgier

just my 2 pennys & a bag of chips

What killed Hair Metal is what killed the "Boyz II Men" type rb group, their was just too much of the formula, and no one had identity. I mean the formula was release that Rock single first than your power ballad, EVERYONE did it, even bands that werent hair metal, they were just rock bands, they got lumped into that because they played with the formula. But Grunge killed itself with its own formula, i mean there was only so far Grunge could go, every song was this suicide depression run, and there was no end or answer, it was just a pretty depressing phase though some good music came from it, i dont look back on Grunge fondly at all. And the RB group died the same death, u had Boyz II men but then everyone cashed in and you had Men of Vizion and NExt and 112 etc...and everyone burnt out, then they mixed with rap for remixes and then both genres went to shit. So i look at all this moves as TRENDS real artists still stand, trends are gone quickly

So this may be the best thread i ever made thank's to joe & ria

Well, this was an interesting read. Thanks for the thoughtful posts.

I agree w/ Joe that the acts that had been around pre-'90s suffered painful transformations or were just decimated in the '90s. I don't think that happened on the large scale w/ '70s acts in the '80s. I think the veteran acts that did make it out of the '90s have battle scars!

Just one thing about the comment that grunge/'90s kids pretending to be miserable in their middle-class suburban lives - I have to say that growing up at that time, it wasn't pretending. Yes, it wasn't hard times in a material sense, but it's like the whole vigor of youth was taken away from us. In the '80s, there was Tipper Gore, and scary news about tampered w/ aspirin bottles and Halloween treats, kids choking on popcorn, etc., so by the time the '90s rolled around kids weren't allowed to do anything because the adult world was so patronizing or worse, standardizing; or the adult world was so screwed up that kids felt like the responsible ones. Responsibility without any fun. I think grunge really spoke to that misfit discontent that was happening.

Gunsnhalen said:

I Find it a bit silly, these hair banders still whine about how grunge killed hair metal. I just saw Tracii Guns on that metal show & he mentioned it, Don Dokken a few months back also whined baout how ''grunge'' people can't play solos. It wasn't really just grunge Pantera came out with Cowbody From Hell came out & was huge, Metallicas black album was beyond huge, Skid Row Slave To The Grind also went to number 1

Anthrax where getting bigger, Faith No More & Red Hot Chili Peppers, and alternative bands like My Bloody Valentine

Basically it seemed audiences wanted something heavier, or funkier or edgier. It wasn't just grunge all these other forms of rock which where underground in the 80's now where getting big. There is no way only grunge did this, besides by 1991 any who what hair bands where getting a lot of play? in 1990 Warrant, Cinderella, Poison & firehouse had a few singles. But besides them hair metal wasn't blowing up radio....

Plus as much as i love hair metal, great musicians, flashy solos. I have to agree with what members of ANthrax said, Hair metal a lot of it didn't have a lot of substance. It's party tock with a ballad or 2, it's fun music but by the 90's audiences wanted something edgier

just my 2 pennys & a bag of chips

Its BEYOND tired LOL

but the theories are interesting... in all seriousness why do people feel this way? I dont listen to alot of heavy metal...

[Edited 1/3/12 23:45pm]

mjscarousal said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I Find it a bit silly, these hair banders still whine about how grunge killed hair metal. I just saw Tracii Guns on that metal show & he mentioned it, Don Dokken a few months back also whined baout how ''grunge'' people can't play solos. It wasn't really just grunge Pantera came out with Cowbody From Hell came out & was huge, Metallicas black album was beyond huge, Skid Row Slave To The Grind also went to number 1

Anthrax where getting bigger, Faith No More & Red Hot Chili Peppers, and alternative bands like My Bloody Valentine

Basically it seemed audiences wanted something heavier, or funkier or edgier. It wasn't just grunge all these other forms of rock which where underground in the 80's now where getting big. There is no way only grunge did this, besides by 1991 any who what hair bands where getting a lot of play? in 1990 Warrant, Cinderella, Poison & firehouse had a few singles. But besides them hair metal wasn't blowing up radio....

Plus as much as i love hair metal, great musicians, flashy solos. I have to agree with what members of ANthrax said, Hair metal a lot of it didn't have a lot of substance. It's party tock with a ballad or 2, it's fun music but by the 90's audiences wanted something edgier

just my 2 pennys & a bag of chips

Its BEYOND tired LOL

but the theories are interesting... in all seriousness why do people feel this way? I dont listen to alot of heavy metal...

[Edited 1/3/12 23:45pm]

Well when Nirvana came around it started you know a whole new thing in music, and i guess the hair metal guys just saw that as the killing of there music. but as i mentioned & joe & ria music was going through a HUGE change right at 1990. By 1990 only a few hair bands where still making hits & many had broken up. Heavy Metal was getting huge & Metal bands where having number 1 albums, funk-metal & alternative where getting bigger to.

So saying just grunge did it is

And i do love hair metal to but the guys need to let it go... it's 2011.... and a lot of them are still touring and making decent money. I know bands like Warrant, Poison, Bango Tango, Ratt, LA Guns etc where not thinking they would be making hits for decades

Music sucks.