Gunsnhalen said:

mjscarousal said:

Its BEYOND tired LOL

but the theories are interesting... in all seriousness why do people feel this way? I dont listen to alot of heavy metal...

[Edited 1/3/12 23:45pm]

Well when Nirvana came around it started you know a whole new thing in music, and i guess the hair metal guys just saw that as the killing of there music. but as i mentioned & joe & ria music was going through a HUGE change right at 1990. By 1990 only a few hair bands where still making hits & many had broken up. Heavy Metal was getting huge & Metal bands where having number 1 albums, funk-metal & alternative where getting bigger to.

So saying just grunge did it is

And i do love hair metal to but the guys need to let it go... it's 2011.... and a lot of them are still touring and making decent money. I know bands like Warrant, Poison, Bango Tango, Ratt, LA Guns etc where not thinking they would be making hits for decades

I have to slightly disagree with you. Firehouse had two top twenty pop hits in 1991 (one of them a top ten) and one top ten hit in 1992. Extreme had big hits with "More Than Words" and "Hole Hearted" in 1991. Mr. Big had a massive hit with "To Be With You" in 1992. Bon Jovi's Keep the Faith album (late 1992) was a sizeable hit. It "only" produced one top ten pop single which is disappointing compared to their previous two albums but it still sold millions. Similar to Keep the Faith, Def Leppard's Adrenalize was not as big as their previous two albums but it was a hit album in 1992/1993 and they had a big hit with "Two Steps Behind" in 1993. The Van Halen diehards will probably kill me for this but by the late '80s/early '90s they had become fairly poppy and kind of fit in with the "hair metal" movement. They managed to keep going into the '90s although it is probably worth mentioning that Bon Jovi, Def Leppard and Van Halen were all much more successful and on a different level than other bands of that era. Heck, even Poison (Flesh and Blood) and Warrant (Cherry Pie) were still selling lots of records into 1991/early 1992.

They were just one band but I have to wonder what would have happened to Motley Crue if Vince had stayed in the band and they had released a quality album in 1991/1992? Dr. Feelgood was a massive hit and they had a history of being a little heavier than many other "hair metal" bands. I think that they probably could have survived the early-mid '90s but I guess we will never know. The Motley Crue album is not horrible but I think they waited too long and it was too big of a change in sound for their core audience. If there was a massive Motley Crue album in 1992 would that have made it any easier for the lesser '80s bands to be successful in the '90s?

Off the top of my head I can't really think of any "hair bands" that broke up by 1990. Maybe some of the very minor ones were dropped and faded into obscurity but most of the big ones lasted into 1991/1992.

Nevermind took off fairly quickly in late 1991 but it wasn't really until late 1992/1993 that the "alternative" bands really took over. Gish was not much of a seller until after Siamese Dream. Ten took about a year to start selling. Badmotorfinger was a critical favourite but not a hit right out of the gate. I think that there was a window for those '80s bands to stay alive but they did not take advantage of it. Too many of them radically altered their sound in a transparent attempt to stay relevent.

How about Winger and Beavis and Butt-Head? Poor Kip still seems convinced that Beavis and Butt-Head killed hid band but by 1993 surely Winger were already dead?

yeah, I can agree with that ^

for hair-metal, the apex was 1986 (Slippery When Wet) - 1989 (Dr.Feelgood), with other huge albums in between, like Hysteria, Whitesnake's 1987, New Jersey, and Appetite for Destruction (which is more metal/"70s rock revival" than hair, anyway). You can say that those albums are the few examples of HIGH quality hair-metal, and they set the blueprint for many CRAPPY imitators (including veteran bands like KISS, AC/DC, Van Halen, etc), copycat bands that sold 2-3 millions of copies during the late 80s because the genre was popular, not because of the quality. It's exactly the same situation that music suffered in the mid-to-late 00s with the shit-hop and shit-dance genres...

1990 was a weak year for hair-metal, and the first symptom of a QUICK decline. I still think that Cherry Pie (the album) and Warrant were just a joke. Then arrived 1991-92, which was the swan song of the whole movement. A harder sound (I think MUCH more influenced by the success of Metallica's The Black Album and Pantera than by Nevermind or the alt bands, which, as ria said, were not as successful as they would be in 1993-94) and overall less filler/silly lyrics: Slave to the Grind, Pornograffiti and III (Extreme), Keep the Faith, Lean Into It, Flesh & Blood (Poison's "decent" album), Revenge, etc. As good as those albums are, they just couldn't escape their 80s origins, I mean, 1991 was a new era, a dramatic change as we said yesterday. The hair bands still enjoyed success in the very early-90s because they were already huge due to the 86-89 golden era. By the time alternative finally became huge WORLDWIDE (late 1992-1995), the hair bands had either broken up ("ok boys, we made our millions, time to retire yeeeewww haaa"!) or had transformed into something heavier/murkier and longtime fans had become parents or were in their mid-30s and didn't give a damn about those new albums. That's why Def Leppard's Adrenalize was still reasonably successful in 1992, but Slang a miserable flop in 1996...

[Edited 1/4/12 5:59am]

Gunsnhalen said:

mjscarousal said:

Its BEYOND tired LOL

but the theories are interesting... in all seriousness why do people feel this way? I dont listen to alot of heavy metal...

[Edited 1/3/12 23:45pm]

Well when Nirvana came around it started you know a whole new thing in music, and i guess the hair metal guys just saw that as the killing of there music. but as i mentioned & joe & ria music was going through a HUGE change right at 1990. By 1990 only a few hair bands where still making hits & many had broken up. Heavy Metal was getting huge & Metal bands where having number 1 albums, funk-metal & alternative where getting bigger to.

So saying just grunge did it is

And i do love hair metal to but the guys need to let it go... it's 2011.... and a lot of them are still touring and making decent money. I know bands like Warrant, Poison, Bango Tango, Ratt, LA Guns etc where not thinking they would be making hits for decades

Okay cool thanks! I dig Nirvana Yea I think its obsurd to completely blame one genre for anything especially when its a genre that has alot of subgenres attached to it

rialb said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Well when Nirvana came around it started you know a whole new thing in music, and i guess the hair metal guys just saw that as the killing of there music. but as i mentioned & joe & ria music was going through a HUGE change right at 1990. By 1990 only a few hair bands where still making hits & many had broken up. Heavy Metal was getting huge & Metal bands where having number 1 albums, funk-metal & alternative where getting bigger to.

So saying just grunge did it is

And i do love hair metal to but the guys need to let it go... it's 2011.... and a lot of them are still touring and making decent money. I know bands like Warrant, Poison, Bango Tango, Ratt, LA Guns etc where not thinking they would be making hits for decades

I have to slightly disagree with you. Firehouse had two top twenty pop hits in 1991 (one of them a top ten) and one top ten hit in 1992. Extreme had big hits with "More Than Words" and "Hole Hearted" in 1991. Mr. Big had a massive hit with "To Be With You" in 1992. Bon Jovi's Keep the Faith album (late 1992) was a sizeable hit. It "only" produced one top ten pop single which is disappointing compared to their previous two albums but it still sold millions. Similar to Keep the Faith, Def Leppard's Adrenalize was not as big as their previous two albums but it was a hit album in 1992/1993 and they had a big hit with "Two Steps Behind" in 1993. The Van Halen diehards will probably kill me for this but by the late '80s/early '90s they had become fairly poppy and kind of fit in with the "hair metal" movement. They managed to keep going into the '90s although it is probably worth mentioning that Bon Jovi, Def Leppard and Van Halen were all much more successful and on a different level than other bands of that era. Heck, even Poison (Flesh and Blood) and Warrant (Cherry Pie) were still selling lots of records into 1991/early 1992.

They were just one band but I have to wonder what would have happened to Motley Crue if Vince had stayed in the band and they had released a quality album in 1991/1992? Dr. Feelgood was a massive hit and they had a history of being a little heavier than many other "hair metal" bands. I think that they probably could have survived the early-mid '90s but I guess we will never know. The Motley Crue album is not horrible but I think they waited too long and it was too big of a change in sound for their core audience. If there was a massive Motley Crue album in 1992 would that have made it any easier for the lesser '80s bands to be successful in the '90s?

Off the top of my head I can't really think of any "hair bands" that broke up by 1990. Maybe some of the very minor ones were dropped and faded into obscurity but most of the big ones lasted into 1991/1992.

Nevermind took off fairly quickly in late 1991 but it wasn't really until late 1992/1993 that the "alternative" bands really took over. Gish was not much of a seller until after Siamese Dream. Ten took about a year to start selling. Badmotorfinger was a critical favourite but not a hit right out of the gate. I think that there was a window for those '80s bands to stay alive but they did not take advantage of it. Too many of them radically altered their sound in a transparent attempt to stay relevent.

How about Winger and Beavis and Butt-Head? Poor Kip still seems convinced that Beavis and Butt-Head killed hid band but by 1993 surely Winger were already dead?

Extreme are more funk metal to me, not hair metal. Motley managed to have top 10 albums but not huge singles in the 90's. Bon Jovi is the only ''hair metal'' type band that is still really huge today besides Motley... but idk i don't totally think of Bon Jovi as hair metal-_-... i mean i know there consedired that , they where always trying to be like Bruce, and had that Jersey rock sound. But i agree on the Motley album, if they didn't wait so long they could have had another big album i bet. Member there decade greatest hits had Primal Scream which was a hit in 91

Christian Slater in Pump Up The Volume played his part.

Appetite For Destruction made Motley Crue et al look a bit silly. That album in and of itself felt like a major pop cultural shift, hearing Paradise City on the radio sandwiched between the likes of Belinda Carlisle and Sonya was as striking(though not as unfathomable) as Nirvana going mainstream a few years down the line.

The gap between pre and post-grunge seems considerably less stark than it did in the '90s. As mentioned, Soundgarden and Alice In Chains were played on Headbanger's Ball and considered metal bands, later to go w/the flow and get a free pass.