i would love to be enlightened and perhaps even corrected!
it doesnt take alot to see why the tag of genius is acredited to prince,stevie wonder,miles davis.but mj???
thriller?off the wall?brilliant albums but NOTHING without quincy jones.
bad?commercial shit(pepsis cool ya know it..).dangerous?.do you anyone over the age of 7 who can play this now with a straight face?
apart from the fact that he cant play an instrument,rarely writes his own stuff,appears now as a moonwalking one trick pony,all his post thriller music sounds so cold and souless as its seen to be played all by session musicians and computers, his music is so geared towards making more money its almost sickening(too many instances but the main one being the last album HOW MUCH DID THAT COST??) BUT my the main issue of contension is to me is that he has reduced the art of music to be seen as product or as a commodity..the ultimate capitilist.an album every four or five years?where is the love or passion for music???
a genuis???at what???somebody please enlighten me.

He's NOT a musical genius..he's an "entertainer"..there is a BIG difference. He has done NOTHING for the music industry EXCEPT for bringing dance and music videos to the standards it is today. There's a difference between "Musician and Vegas performer" It's like comparing "Zanphir - master of the pan flute :LOL: with Sigfreid and Roy"

very succintly put,couldnt have used a better analogy myself!

jonylawson said:

um...MJ rarely write his own music?
i supose u dont own any MJ albums 2 read the credits & find his name next2 his songs...

commercial shit??...who doesnt do commercials & use their music 4 advertisements?...why single out MJ there?

he cant play an instrument?...yeah musta been a ghost playing guitars & Drums on "Morphine"...also keys on a helluvalot of his songs & also has played piano on many a song....not2 mention all the arrangements on his songs,which r usually all done by himself when the tunes are written by him.
do yourself a favour & buy a MichaelJackson record so u can read these facts 4 yourself.


the cost of making "INVINCIBLE".....he spent lotsa money in the studio,making lotsa songs he wanted 2 make....
i dont see greed or gearing it 2wards making money there.


dangerous? anyone over the age of 7 who can play this now with a straight face?...
i am 18 & it is an all time favourite LP.

***
u got anything better 2 come up with than negative comments on Michael Jackson?...can u argue this with a straight face?





If you're thinkin' about my Edit it don't matter if you're black or white
[This message was edited Mon Feb 17 2:34:02 PST 2003 by Joshy84au]

No, he is not a musical genius, but he is still very good at what he does.

He will never be in the realm of Prince or Stevie for musicianship but that has never been his game. He is just a very talented singer and dancer and sometime songwriter.

It is not all down to Quincy at all. MJ has a unique voice and he is a unique talent.

But he is not a genius musician, just a great performer.
[This message was edited Mon Feb 17 2:32:50 PST 2003 by mrdespues]

Why does an artist have to play an instrument to be considered a "genuis" anyway? I've never seen James Brown play a single instrument,does that make him less of an artist? And how can you say that MJ's new music is "souless"? His 'Invincible' CD features some of the most soulful R&B ballads he has EVER done("Butterflies","Heaven Can Wait",etc). And,as for him releasing an album every five years...how long has it been since Stevie Wonder released a new CD? Most artists routinely take several years before doing a new CD,with Prince being the lone exception.


Michael HAS written many of his own songs,you need to go back and check the credits to some of his biggest albums.One thing to remember is,MJ is a *pop* artist and he simply aims to be the best pop artist he can be.He's not trying to be Mozart or Miles.He is a pop artist and a damn good one at that.



...
[This message was edited Mon Feb 17 2:49:25 PST 2003 by DavidEye]

yes, listen again to dangerous as a whole. it is a great album, with a lot more soul than I gave it credit for a little while ago (i recently rediscovered it).

and yes, i'll back that up too...he writes MANY of the songs he sings (if not the majority), and plays a big part in the creation of the music (programming, overall production, instruments here and there).

DavidEye said:

That's true but it's possible to get confused because I heard that one of his song writers was named Michael Jackson...

Can anyone confirm this??

Quincy Jones called him a musical genius. I don't classify that man as simply, "a music fan". If he belives it, who am I to disagree? He did work with him, after all. Anyway, just because I only like a handful of his songs doesn't mean I can't see why he's considered a genius. It takes genius to get where he has been, especially being black. I take my hat off to him and will never hate.

The only time someone named "Michael Jackson" has written for THE Michael Jackson and isn't THE Michael Jackson is on the song "Blame It On The Boogie," which is a Jacksons song, not a solo MJ cut.

As for Michael's musical genius - listen to Stranger In Moscow, Billie Jean, Who Is It, Dirty Diana, Smooth Criminal, They Don't Care About Us, Heartbreak (aka This Place) Hotel, Morphine or even Whatever Happens. Michael's melodic sensibilities are very keen, his rhythm arrangements are unique and refreshing and his story-telling skills are virtually unparalleled.

I'm saying this as a student of music, by the way, who has completed more theory classes than I care to admit.

The claim that MJ is nothing without Quincy isn't valid considering that Michael's biggest hits from Off The Wall and Thriller were written/composed/arranged/co-produced by himself. If you have the special editions of those two albums, listen to the demo versions included. There's not that much difference from Michael's rough cuts recorded at his house with the help of Janet on the triangle and the finished versions. Quincy has given Michael his props in regards to song writing, so it seems pretty ludicrous to deny Michael's talent when those who would be in the position to know have already made their assesment and declared that he's remarkable talent.

As far as the Prince comparisons go, I think that lyrically, Prince has always had one-upped MJ. In terms of strict musicality in regard to songs themselves, I'd say that Michael's compositions beat his (MJ's compositions seem to be more cohesive melodically). Prince, of course, has demonstrated his ability to play virtually every instrument, which MJ hasn't done. Although I wouldn't completely write MJ off as not being able to play, Teddy Riley has said that Michael can play practically every instrument he uses in his music (which admitedly, might not be that many considering MJ's fondness for midi and other computerized music ).

IF PRINCE IS A GENIUS THEN MJ SURE IS...BLOODY HELL, IN SOME WAYS THE LIL ONE DOESN'T EVEN COMPARE!

A few years ago,on his MTV/TRL interview with Carson Daly,MJ was asked to name some of his influences.He mentioned names like Frank Sinatra,Jackie Wilson and Sammy Davis Jr. ("entertainers",as he put it).I think MJ strives to be the best pop artist/entertainer he can be,like those folks that he idolizes.

if you look at mike from his jackson 5 days you must aknowledge that this young fellow had entertaining in his blood. from his singing (the brother had soul!), to his dancing (look out james brown!), to his facial expressions (as if it came straight from the heart!), to just the total package of him being a complete entertainer. this was more than just talent, this was genius. you can't teach somebody to become a genius, you either have it or you don't. mike has it. and mike further explored it in the years following. and to keep the public interested for all those years he kind of, as he's said it, resculptured himself once in a while. this went to far at one point in my opinion, and from that moment on overshadowed mike's gift to the world. but don't forget what he's given you; some brilliant music (don't give quincy too much credit!) and entertainment. he ranks with the best.

This just turned into the "Jock Michael Jackson" thread again.

James brown played keys on many tracks, and drums on some...night train to name but one.

Phil said:

Oh,I didn't say he COULDN'T play any instruments,just saying that I've never *SEEN* him play any (and I've gone to several James Brown concerts).

yeh suppose thats fair enough.

i think the thread has degenerated somewhat, but i think they are both extremaly succesful entertainers/musicians

HOWEVER!

i think it's prince's attempts to push both his and musics boundaries on occassion sucessfully that makes him a genius to me.

I don't really hear Jackson doing something that makes me think "what the heck???" ever. Admitedly, songs like Billie Jean etc. are absolute classics and to my ears never sound dated,

digressing somewhat, i think there is a big differece between someone like Michael "who practised dancing in front of his bathroom mirror" for a concert and Prince who obviously has much more of a working musicians work ethic, and has always been praised for professionalism regarding rehearsels, concerts, etc.

QstnOfU said:

'Blame it on the boogie' was co-written by another man name Michael Jackson.That's true, but that is the only example.

as for this thread in general...

Michael writes ALL his best songs.'Billie Jean' makes him worthy of Genius status alone IMO.It's Perfect.

deeplove said:

Yeah - MJ is a MARKETING genius - he knows how to sell the fact that he sleeps with little boys & get away with it. Thats genius.
I wonder if he gave OJ advice on how to get away with murder?

thedoorkeeper said:

have u had your + sign 2day?

"Genius" is a very subjective term but whether you like MJ's music or not you have to respect his ability to entertain simply by virtue of the massive audience he has achieved if nothing else.

Marrk said:

Had Deeplove had his + sign when he resorted to pulling down Prince in the process of defending MJ?

I think you need to do some reading and some watching. Look on JB albums especially soul pride (the instrumentals 1960-1969. JB plays drums and keybords plus some funky organ. Before you type do some history. Most of the time I see Brown in concert he plays Keyboard and drums.

DavidEye said:

heavyfunk said:

Right, I saw JB last year and he got down on his organ.

lameless said:

Quincy Jones said that so people would buy his records. I don't consider MJ to be a music genius, but an amazingly talented performer/entertainer.

Essence said:

Yea...James played the drums on "Night Train" which was done in ONE take. And he played some piano on "Sex Machine"I think. James is one of the artists whom you rarely see playing an instrument, but has some proficiency on a few.

Wait...Mike didn't write Blame It On The Boogie?? This just gets worse day by day, interview by interview, thread by thread

Well MJ is not a genious (who cares if he is one or not anyway) and he hasn't make anything interesting in the past ten years but he is responsible for 4 of the finest albums of all time: "Off The Wall", "Thriller", "Bad" and "Dangerous". I have to say that i am no Jackson fan myself up until "Dangerous" he did look like a genious who could do no wrong-musically speaking. It has all gone wrong ever since. However all the respect on him for his late 70s/80s/early 90s output