The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame’s women problem

Women make up barely 10 percent of the Hall's membership -- and it's time the sexist snubs end

Joan Jett, Chaka Khan, and Donna Summer (Credit: Reuters)

Do the math: Out of the 11 new members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame class of 2012, one — Laura Nyro — is a woman. Include all the musicians in each of the newly anointed bands, and you’ll still find only one woman (still Nyro) and 21 men. In the 27 years since the Hall was founded, there have been 296 inductees, including bands, pioneers, producers and promoters. Forty have been women or had female members.

Do women really only account for less than 14 percent of rock history?

Not only do fewer women get picked for the Cleveland-based institution, it takes longer for them to get in. The late, great Nyro, a brilliant singer-songwriter whose career spanned rock, folk, jazz and soul, was nominated 19 years after she first became eligible. (Acts are eligible for nomination 25 years after their first recording.) The Beastie Boys, her co-inductees, were enshrined only four years after eligibility.

It's a boy's club...and that Jann Werner or whatever his name is is a big factor in not letting women in...the bastard.

sosgemini said:

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame’s women problem

Women make up barely 10 percent of the Hall's membership -- and it's time the sexist snubs end

By Evelyn McDonnell

Joan Jett, Chaka Khan, and Donna Summer (Credit: Reuters)

Topics:Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Gender, Music

Do the math: Out of the 11 new members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame class of 2012, one — Laura Nyro — is a woman. Include all the musicians in each of the newly anointed bands, and you’ll still find only one woman (still Nyro) and 21 men. In the 27 years since the Hall was founded, there have been 296 inductees, including bands, pioneers, producers and promoters. Forty have been women or had female members.

Do women really only account for less than 14 percent of rock history?

Not only do fewer women get picked for the Cleveland-based institution, it takes longer for them to get in. The late, great Nyro, a brilliant singer-songwriter whose career spanned rock, folk, jazz and soul, was nominated 19 years after she first became eligible. (Acts are eligible for nomination 25 years after their first recording.) The Beastie Boys, her co-inductees, were enshrined only four years after eligibility.

Apparently, beneath the marquee announcing the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum’s current exhibit — “Women Who Rock: Vision, Power, Passion” — should be a hand-lettered sign for the secret entrance to the fort of fame: “No girls allowed.”

To get into the Rock Hall, you have to know the password, the handshake and, maybe, Rolling Stone publisher Jann Wenner’s cellphone number. The selections are not obvious, and while there is clearly a history of sexism, it doesn’t necessarily follow the usual patterns. For instance, Madonna — a dance-driven artist oft ridiculed by rockist pigs — was chosen in 2008, the first year she was eligible. The Stooges — the proto-punk legends as beloved by critics as they are hated by the humorless — were granted entree two years after the Material Girl, 41 years after their first album. (In a marvelous demonstration of grace and chutzpah, Madonna had the Stooges perform her songs at her induction ceremony.)

It’s hard to figure the Rock Hall out. The anonymous nominating board (“rock and roll historians,’’ according to the RRHF website) and voting board (some 500-plus “rock experts”) makes some unexpected and impeccably tasteful choices (LaVern Baker, Cosimo Matassa). And then there are some real bonehead picks, like this year’s headline-grabbers, Guns N’ Roses and Red Hot Chili Peppers, two cheesy and derivative bands who have influenced no one of importance and have contributed infinitesimally to the great American songbook. (When karaoke dies, so will “Sweet Child O’ Mine.”)

To add insult to injury, this year the Cock Rock Hall bypassed three worthy female nominees whose careers predate the (Beastie) Boys Club: Heart, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts and Donna Summer.

Maybe the women split the vote. At a conference in Los Angeles earlier this year, an executive for the Cleveland museum admitted that females are underrepresented among the voters. In other words, Wenner, who co-founded the hall with a bunch of other men (and one woman) and has remained its most prominent figure, has modeled the organization after his flagship magazine, Rolling Stone. There, too, the decades-long dearth of women on the masthead is mirrored in the rare and token coverage of female artists. (Wenner, by the way, was inducted into the RRHF in 2004.)

“The Hall of Fame is truly a (white) boys’ club, always was and still is,” says one veteran rock expert and former Wenner employee. “It very much reflects the attitude I found at Rolling Stone on staff in the early days (’60s and ’70s), given what we covered and who was allowed to write and edit.”

Considering the snub of Jett and Heart, two acts that topped the charts with their guitar-based hard anthems, the Hall seems to have an aversion to (fear of?) women who rock — women who know what to do with that ax between their legs. As Silver, a New York-based Riot Grrrl musician sang in a ‘90s composition, “Rock girls don’t make it, pop girls always do.”

At this juncture, I think I should point out again the name of one of the current exhibits in Cleveland: “Women Who Rock.” Isn’t that ironic? The aforementioned Wenner survivor points out that the museum attached to the Hall of Fame has a much better track record of including women than the Hall itself. “The museum is a lot more open to women’s history than the Hall of Fame is. There have been really terrific conferences and exhibits there, and publications coming out of both.”

Nonetheless, the herding of all musicians with vulvas into one generalizing exhibit/issue is a classic Rolling Stone maneuver. In 1997, I interviewed Jett and Queen Latifah for a “Women of Rock” issue of Rolling Stone. (Yes, I have been employed by Wenner Media — but only as a freelancer.) I had a bunch of burning questions I was dying to ask the queens of noise and hip-hop. Instead, the magazine insisted all interviewers ask questions from an editorially approved list, because apparently we (and for this issue, an unusual number of female bylines were deployed) weren’t capable of thinking for ourselves. I was told to direct to Jett and Latifah such urgent queries as “What’s your footwear of choice?” and “What kind of perfume do you wear?”

I bet GNR’s Axl Rose and RHCP’s Anthony Kiedis have worn more cologne in their lives than Jett has doffed eau de toilette — and that Wenner’s minions have never asked them about it.

Let’s do a simple comparison:

Guns N’ Roses: Two notable albums that I thought recycled Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith and Rolling Stones riffs but that admittedly sold gangbusters, and people I respect actually dig them. Two songs we can’t get rid of, yet: “Sweet Child O’ Mine” and “Welcome to the Jungle.” Stupid, awful lyrics. (What dumb hick moves to the city and is offended by gays and immigrants? Dude, they’re what you leave the small town for!) Then a quick devolution into comic acrimony, drug abuse, bloat, critic-baiting and other outsize rock-star cliches.

Joan Jett: Led one of the first all-girl aggressive rock bands, the Runaways, who have had two movies made about them but have never been nominated to the Rock Hall. Had a string of hits throughout the 1980s, from “I Love Rock ’n ’Roll” to “Crimson and Clover” to “I Hate Myself for Loving You.” Co-wrote and performed one of the greatest rebel rock songs of all time, “Bad Reputation.” Became a model, mentor and producer for 1990s female rock bands. Still tours constantly not as a pathetic parody of her old self, most recently gigging with the Foo Fighters at Madison Square Garden.

What Guns N’ Roses have that Joan Jett doesn’t is headline appeal. A reunion of the original GNR members is news (though I’d prefer a Runaways reunion). It sells. It will make issues of Rolling Stone fly off the stands if Wenner gets the exclusive story. It will draw lots of eyeballs to the HBO telecast of the induction ceremony, the raison d’etre of the Hall of Fame.

Ultimately, the Rock Hall is about money, not history. That’s why Madonna and Axl fit right in, and Iggy Pop and Joan Jett don’t. And that’s also why the exclusion of women matters. Women could just follow Johnny Rotten’s lead and say, “Fuck your club, we don’t care if we get in or not.” But being selected pumps up record sales, as a recent New York Times article noted. And getting paid is a feminist issue.

The injustices and omissions of the Rock Hall are legion: No Joan Baez, Patti LaBelle, Slits, Suzi Quatro or Salt-N-Pepa. Tina Turner was picked along with her abusive ex, Ike, not as an artist in her own right. Ditto for Carole King and her sometime songwriting partner Gerry Goffin.

They all love rock ’n’ roll. Why doesn’t the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame love them?

From: http://www.salon.com/2011...n_problem/

I found this to ve a read, that while true on the women. The bands it insulted it's obvious there very wrong about what there songs are about or there message. Maybe they should do more research before trying to make all these claims

Um, can I just point out the obvious and say that men vastly outnumber women in the field of rock and roll. Anyone expecting things to be fifty-fifty is just not being realistic. Really, who are the great rock and roll female solo artists? How about the great all female rock bands? There's just not a ton of them out there.

Having said that I do agree that women are probably underrepresented and more of them should be in there but I think the author did a poor job of making her case.

I think it's funny that anytime the R&RHOF does recognise women that it does not seem to be good enough for the writer of the article. She's upset that Tina was inducted along with Ike? Why? He was integral. The hall has a women who rock exhibit but all the author can do is complain that it's not good enough? Carole King was inducted with Gerry Goffin, so what?

Look, I love Joan Jett's music and she definitely deserves to be in there but is it necessary to slag Guns 'N Roses to try to make a case for Joan? Maybe it's just me but Evelyn McDonnell just seems like a very bitter person. The reality is that every year more and more people are eligible and it is just not possible to squeeze in every worthy candidate. Maybe they could consider a five year freeze on inducting "new" (meaning recently eligible artists) and focus on getting some of the overlooked artists in, be they men or women. The very least Ms. McDonnell could have done was present a solution but all she did was whine.

It is necessary to crictizice gun and rose being chosen ovee joan jett and heart, they were more inflerential then g&r. this article is about rrhof trying to rewrite history and telling the world that the people they chosen made rock and roll what it was.

rialb said:

Um, can I just point out the obvious and say that men vastly outnumber women in the field of rock and roll. Anyone expecting things to be fifty-fifty is just not being realistic. Really, who are the great rock and roll female solo artists? How about the great all female rock bands? There's just not a ton of them out there.

Having said that I do agree that women are probably underrepresented and more of them should be in there but I think the author did a poor job of making her case.

I think it's funny that anytime the R&RHOF does recognise women that it does not seem to be good enough for the writer of the article. She's upset that Tina was inducted along with Ike? Why? He was integral. The hall has a women who rock exhibit but all the author can do is complain that it's not good enough? Carole King was inducted with Gerry Goffin, so what?

Look, I love Joan Jett's music and she definitely deserves to be in there but is it necessary to slag Guns 'N Roses to try to make a case for Joan? Maybe it's just me but Evelyn McDonnell just seems like a very bitter person. The reality is that every year more and more people are eligible and it is just not possible to squeeze in every worthy candidate. Maybe they could consider a five year freeze on inducting "new" (meaning recently eligible artists) and focus on getting some of the overlooked artists in, be they men or women. The very least Ms. McDonnell could have done was present a solution but all she did was whine.

First there racists, now there sexist. This is the order people go on when they get butthurt about these award shows

rialb said:

Um, can I just point out the obvious and say that men vastly outnumber women in the field of rock and roll. Anyone expecting things to be fifty-fifty is just not being realistic. Really, who are the great rock and roll female solo artists? How about the great all female rock bands? There's just not a ton of them out there.

Having said that I do agree that women are probably underrepresented and more of them should be in there but I think the author did a poor job of making her case.

I think it's funny that anytime the R&RHOF does recognise women that it does not seem to be good enough for the writer of the article. She's upset that Tina was inducted along with Ike? Why? He was integral. The hall has a women who rock exhibit but all the author can do is complain that it's not good enough? Carole King was inducted with Gerry Goffin, so what?

Look, I love Joan Jett's music and she definitely deserves to be in there but is it necessary to slag Guns 'N Roses to try to make a case for Joan? Maybe it's just me but Evelyn McDonnell just seems like a very bitter person. The reality is that every year more and more people are eligible and it is just not possible to squeeze in every worthy candidate. Maybe they could consider a five year freeze on inducting "new" (meaning recently eligible artists) and focus on getting some of the overlooked artists in, be they men or women. The very least Ms. McDonnell could have done was present a solution but all she did was whine.

Agreed. If you look at the period pre-1980's, you'll find only a handful of women who have had a major impact on rock and roll from its dawn to 1980. There are the obvious selections like Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, and Janis Joplin, and there's an argument to be made for artists like Linda Ronstadt, Heart, Grace Slick (of Jefferson Airplane and Starship), and the Runaways (Joan Jett, Lita Ford), but most of the female artists who were huge during the rock era were essentially pop artists like Connie Francis, Dionne Warwick, Petula Clark, Brenda Lee, and Olivia Newton-John, or R&B artists like Mary Wells, Minnie Ripperton, Natalie Cole, or disco queens like Donna Summer. It really wasn't until the 1980's that women began showing their muscle on the charts and in front of the stage in great numbers. But even then it's been mostly on the pop side and not the rock side, and most of the female rockers were only marginally huge to begin with.

But there is an argument to be made for sexism. Consider both Whitney Houston and Janet Jackson have both recently reached the threshold for nomination into the RRHoF yet neither have been nominated into the Hall yet. And Mariah Carey will be eligible for nomination in four years, yet will the RRHoF overlook the 18 number one singles she has garnered during her career? Will Courtney Love ever get nominated? And what about Britney Spears in ten years?

^ The hall would REALLY be a sham if Mariah and Britney get in. I like Britney somewhat but Hall of Fame material she's not. Men outnumbered the women in music. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is.

Timmy84 said:

^ The hall would REALLY be a sham if Mariah and Britney get in. I like Britney somewhat but Hall of Fame material she's not. Men outnumbered the women in music. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is.

Well you have Madonna in there? now do you stop with Mariah, you are talking the biggest selling female just about ever, and someone that might have the most number one singles in history? if Katy Perry stays course and makes hits does she get in?

The thing is that the hall skipped over alot from a certain period, it always shocked me that Joan wasnt in there, because she has got respect from writers and critics, HEART have not always played the game as we know so they have enemies, plus they were, like CHICAGO, considered sell-outs in the 80's, though no one said anything about Paul Mccartney doing Say Say Say and Ebony and Ivory, or David Bowies 80's mess, or jesus christ THE ROLLING STONES who really should have stopped everything after "Undercover" they should be kicked out for the "HArlem Shuffle" So it seems women like Nyro and Joni Mitchell get in but Heart and Jett and Benatar dont? why? maybe because they were more ballsy than the guys at times?

^ Like they would seriously be considered lmao please...

Timmy84 said:

^ Like they would seriously be considered lmao please...

It wouldnt shock me, i mean what do they with Beyonce when the time comes? Alicia Keys? to me Norah Jones is the only female that has come out in this decade that is due consideration when the time comes

what do you mean Heart has enemies?

A thread about women, not Beastie Boys?

what do you mean Heart has enemies?

sorry for the double post-it's the autosave thing on the org

[Edited 12/12/11 21:22pm]

Well The RNRHF did it proper this year. Media attention all over the place. Amazing for an institution everyone considers a joke, right?

Blondie, The Pretenders, Madonna and Patti Smith are all in so I'm pretty satisfied. It'd be great if Joan got some love though!

PJ Harvey, Alanis, Liz Phair and Fiona better be inducted sometime in the next decade!

Sonic Youth (Kim Gordan) and The Pixies (Kim Deal) are a shoe in as well.

What I don't understand is the need to compare acts. The fact that G&R got in should have nothing to do with Heart, same with the Beastie Boys and War.

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

^ Like they would seriously be considered lmao please...

It wouldnt shock me, i mean what do they with Beyonce when the time comes? Alicia Keys? to me Norah Jones is the only female that has come out in this decade that is due consideration when the time comes

Someone will probably buy Beyonce's way in. No way she deserves to be in anyone's Hall of Fame. Unless it's the Shit Singer's Hall of Fame.