Javi said:

As much as I like Triumph, Destiny is my choice. The songs, and Michael's performance, are brilliant. Quality stuff. Mainly sweet and delicate songs.

I recently saw two DVD's, one of the Destiny tour, the other of Victory, and it's obvious how the macho attitude became fundamental in the Jacksons' image, while in the second half of the 70's they were still sweet, almost feminine guys.

By the way, I LOVE Get It Together. It's my favourite Jacksons 5 album, great songs and Norman Whitfield all over the place.

Off topic: aren't the mods becoming more tolerant regarding Michael Jackson's threads not being included in the Sticky? That would be good news, as a discussion like this one, for example, wouldn't have half of its participants had it been "stickyfied".

[Edited 12/14/11 6:44am]

I should say so. As long as it stays with the music, we should be okay.

Javi said:

Off topic: aren't the mods becoming more tolerant regarding Michael Jackson's threads not being included in the Sticky? That would be good news, as a discussion like this one, for example, wouldn't have half of its participants had it been "stickyfied".

[Edited 12/14/11 6:44am]

The topic is about the Jacksons not about MJ (although many sincerely believe thаt Jacksons = MJ, but although he was obvious leader of the group, the songs he had written in collaboration with his brothers, so widespread disregard them a bit unfair. Although I am not a big fan of Jackson family, but Randy and Jackie contribution to the work of the group is quite substantial.

P.S. How became this annoying sticky topic? It often happens that on the front page 4-5 topics dedicated to one artist, why only MJ has permanent sticky thread?

Timmy84 said:

Javi said:

As much as I like Triumph, Destiny is my choice. The songs, and Michael's performance, are brilliant. Quality stuff. Mainly sweet and delicate songs.

I recently saw two DVD's, one of the Destiny tour, the other of Victory, and it's obvious how the macho attitude became fundamental in the Jacksons' image, while in the second half of the 70's they were still sweet, almost feminine guys.

By the way, I LOVE Get It Together. It's my favourite Jacksons 5 album, great songs and Norman Whitfield all over the place.

Off topic: aren't the mods becoming more tolerant regarding Michael Jackson's threads not being included in the Sticky? That would be good news, as a discussion like this one, for example, wouldn't have half of its participants had it been "stickyfied".

[Edited 12/14/11 6:44am]

I should say so. As long as it stays with the music, we should be okay.

Let's see how long THAT lasts.

Both albums are masterpieces but gotta go with Triumph on this one.

^^^

Agreed. It seems every year we have this debate on the org lol, but while I think both albums are great, i'm gonna give "Triumph" the slight edge.

Can't go wrong w/ either one tho.

One of the best moments MJ in falsetto of his career.

Who sings this song with Michael? Randy? I do not really distinguish the voices of all the other brothers yet.

LiLi1992 said:

One of the best moments MJ in falsetto of his career.

Who sings this song with Michael? Randy? I do not really distinguish the voices of all the other brothers yet.

If its Give It Up that is Marlon.

My rating has Destiny at 4.5 stars and Triumph at 3.5 stars.

LiLi1992 said:

One of the best moments MJ in falsetto of his career.

Who sings this song with Michael? Randy? I do not really distinguish the voices of all the other brothers yet.

[img:$uid]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UwancxMd2bY/TY_vQ7Zu19I/AAAAAAAAAdg/1BK7RJX9S1I/s1600/Marlon-Jackson-Photo-1.jpg[/img:$uid]

Adisa said:

LiLi1992 said:

One of the best moments MJ in falsetto of his career.

Who sings this song with Michael? Randy? I do not really distinguish the voices of all the other brothers yet.

If its Give It Up that is Marlon.

My rating has Destiny at 4.5 stars and Triumph at 3.5 stars.

I like his voice. Nothing fancy, but pleasant voice.

Why only 3.5?

Shango said:

LiLi1992 said: I'm wondering, the Jacksons were not in support of Triumph on any show?

It was a lot in Destiny era.

I think it had to do with Randy, who was injured and hospitalized from an accident. Orger bboy87 might know more info about this situation.

Randy's percussion is actually recorded on "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough". I remember an interview with bass-player Marcus Miller, who hipped Miles Davis to "Shake Your Body Down To The Ground" written by Randy and Michael. I've also read somewhere that Randy added a new punch to the Jackson's sound when he joined them.

SoulAlive said:

Off The Wall kills any Jacksons album.Everytime Michael had a successful solo album,his brothers tried to top it but they didn't succeed.

***Off The Wall/Triumph

***Thriller/Victory

I've said this before and I'll say it again: After OTW,Michael should have never worked with brothers again.He didn't need them anymore.

Imo, "Triumph" is an essential phase and good mix for both careers of the brothers as a unit and for MJ solo. At the time, interested people were still heavy into experiencing the live-shows of the brothers, after their expanded Destiny Tour in the US. It sounds though somewhat illogical to me about the OTW<<>>Triumph-competing when Michael had actually an integral part in the creation-proces of the Triumph-album, including the concept for the "Can You Feel It"-video and also as co-creator (with magician Doug Henning) of the Triumph Tour stage. And even though he initially distanced himself from taking part of the Victory Tour (by this time he was indeed more then ready to continue his path all alone) he still added his creative help to concept the intro and other parts of the Victory Tour. He could've easily had someone else do that.

Randy's accident had a bit to do with the brothers not doing as much in regards to promotion.

the Destiny/Off The Wall Tour (the late 79 shows and the mini tour in early 1980 was also known as the OTW tour) went from January 1979 to early 1980, doing over 120 shows altogether, then Randy had the accident while the brothers were preparing the album, which came out in July 1980 and the tour didn't launch until mid 1981.

I wouldn't say they didn't promote it, but the amount of actual appearances lacked compared to Destiny, the factors included:

-Like stated above, Randy's accident

-Michael's increasing refusal to constantly appear on TV shows and doing interviews

the lawsuit with Motown may have had something to do with it also...

"The Triumph" short film/video was shown on Soul Train, American Bandstand in the US and Top Of The Pops in the UK

They did do promotional appearances like radio and magazine interviews

There was a discussion on "The Michael Jackson Archives" facebook page and it was mentioned that Destiny was to be Michael's last album with the brothers but he decided to stay on for Triumph. In fact, he was writing Lovely One and Heartbreak Hotel while he was recording Off The Wall and on the Destiny Tour along with writing You Not Me (later became This Had To Be for The Brothers Johnson), Be Not Always, When Babies Smile, and Little Susie

Triumph somewhat rode the wave of Off The Wall and also did well because the music was great. Songs like Heartbreak Hotel, Walk Right Now, Lovely One, Can You Feel It, and Everybody was used on Soul Train and dance music shows along with being played in clubs

Big mistake OTW was such an incredible album that turned Michael into a solo superstar.He didn't need his brothers after that album.After OTW,when people went to a Jacksons concert,who were they really going to see? After OTW,when people bought a Jacksons album,who were they really interested in? The biggest insult was when the brothers talked him into doing the 'Victory' album and tour.Wtf?? 'Thriller' was the biggest selling album of all-time! It was absurd for Michael to collaborate with his brothers after an album like that.He should have done a solo 'Thriller' world tour in 1983/84.For all intents and purposes,the Jacksons as a group was 'over' after Destiny.

SoulAlive said:

There was a discussion on "The Michael Jackson Archives" facebook page and it was mentioned that Destiny was to be Michael's last album with the brothers but he decided to stay on for Triumph

Big mistake OTW was such an incredible album that turned Michael into a solo superstar.He didn't need his brothers after that album.

There is such a thing - family. I have great doubts that Michael wanted to continue working with his brothers, but we all have certain obligations to our families.

Why is it mistake ? Work with his brothers did not interfere with his super successful solo career.

Triumph is a very good album. During this period, they were all interested in each other yet. After Thriller - yes, everything has changed

I don't consider that a mistake at all.

THINK ABOUT IT!

Off the Wall was released initially to break away from the brothers. And guess what?

That's EXACTLY what happened! The reason he decided to stay was he knew the brothers could benefit from it and since a certain other brother was in Motown, there was less conflict. Plus the brothers didn't start to feel some type of way until after Thriller blew up.

SoulAlive said:

There was a discussion on "The Michael Jackson Archives" facebook page and it was mentioned that Destiny was to be Michael's last album with the brothers but he decided to stay on for Triumph

He didn't need his brothers after that album.After OTW,when people went to a Jacksons concert,who were they really going to see?

Marlon

SoulAlive said:

There was a discussion on "The Michael Jackson Archives" facebook page and it was mentioned that Destiny was to be Michael's last album with the brothers but he decided to stay on for Triumph

Big mistake OTW was such an incredible album that turned Michael into a solo superstar.He didn't need his brothers after that album.After OTW,when people went to a Jacksons concert,who were they really going to see? After OTW,when people bought a Jacksons album,who were they really interested in? The biggest insult was when the brothers talked him into doing the 'Victory' album and tour.Wtf?? 'Thriller' was the biggest selling album of all-time! It was absurd for Michael to collaborate with his brothers after an album like that.He should have done a solo 'Thriller' world tour in 1983/84.For all intents and purposes,the Jacksons as a group was 'over' after Destiny.

not exactly

I think Triumph turned out great and I think some of the songs on it somewhat surpass the songs on OTW. I prefer Time Waits For No One over She's Out Of My Life for example. Walk Right Now? Heartbreak Hotel? Lovely One? Give It Up? THOSE ARE JAMS

The Triumph Tour was one the best moments of the Jacksons' career and Michael's career, a lot better than the Victory Tour

You gotta remember, Destiny and Off The Wall were pop music listener's re-introduction to The Jacksons. They still did well on the R&B and dance charts and were still very famous but when Destiny hit, it was their biggest album since the early J5 days, then Off The Wall was released 8 months later while in the midst of the Destiny Tour and it BLEW UP

If you look back at articles from 1981, rumors were rampant that this was the end. Matter of fact, the brothers (except for Michael and maybe Randy) said it was their last tour

So while the Triumph tour was their last, Michael had already agreed to do the Victory album and while recording Thriller, was working on songs with Randy and Marlon. It was the issues while recording the album (the brothers not getting along, attitudes, outside forces, etc.) and the handling of the tour that were the last straws

The reasons why Victory turned out the way it did was the same reason the planned 1998 reunion album and tour fell through

Soul has a point. The Destiny tour was 3 legs and lasted from early 1979 all the way to a week or so before Triump was released in the fall of 1980. The Destiny tour evolved into the OTW (meaning go see MJ) tour basically, and the Trimph tour musically had more songs form OTW than it did Triumph. What this really all means is that...I'm right. Destiny is a better lp than Triumph.

I need a drink...been a long hectic week.

Adisa said:

Soul has a point. The Destiny tour was 3 legs and lasted from early 1979 all the way to a week or so before Triump was released in the fall of 1980. The Destiny tour evolved into the OTW (meaning go see MJ) tour basically, and the Trimph tour musically had more songs form OTW than it did Triumph. What this really all means is that...I'm right. Destiny is a better lp than Triumph.

I need a drink...been a long hectic week.

Triumph tour featured 3 songs from Triumph and 5 songs from OTW....damn, you're right

Wait, a week before Triumph was released?

goes to research logs to confirm this

bboy87 said:

Adisa said:

Soul has a point. The Destiny tour was 3 legs and lasted from early 1979 all the way to a week or so before Triump was released in the fall of 1980. The Destiny tour evolved into the OTW (meaning go see MJ) tour basically, and the Trimph tour musically had more songs form OTW than it did Triumph. What this really all means is that...I'm right. Destiny is a better lp than Triumph.

I need a drink...been a long hectic week.

Triumph tour featured 3 songs from Triumph and 5 songs from OTW....damn, you're right

Wait, a week before Triumph was released?

goes to research logs to confirm this

It was really just mean to keep promoting OTW. LOL. And the shows they did for the destiny tour in New Orleans are THE SHIT!!! They performed Get it Together, Wanna Be Where You Are, I Am Love-- and Marlon actually killed that shit! -- and Mike was already rocking the white glove.

Adisa said:

bboy87 said:

Triumph tour featured 3 songs from Triumph and 5 songs from OTW....damn, you're right

Wait, a week before Triumph was released?

goes to research logs to confirm this

It was really just mean to keep promoting OTW. LOL. And the shows they did for the destiny tour in New Orleans are THE SHIT!!! They performed Get it Together, Wanna Be Where You Are, I Am Love-- and Marlon actually killed that shit! -- and Mike was already rocking the white glove.

I think they did shows in like March '80 but then that was it and Triumph came in July. My friend had a website of articles from all the tours and one said the last show was in Hawaii. I wonder if those last shows featured Triumph songs too....

You should've seen me when the show surfaced When they started I Wanna Be Where You Are....

[img:$uid]http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/219288_o.gif[/img:$uid]

I stanned out HOARD

[Edited 12/16/11 14:48pm]

2 strongest songs on Triumph - live

Interestingly, Triumph or Destiny tours will be released in normal quality completely.

Looked at some videos on Youtube usually in a shitty quality .... great concerts ...

[Edited 1/14/12 6:45am]

LiLi1992 said:

Interestingly, Triumph or Destiny tours will be released in normal quality completely.

When?

Shango said:

LiLi1992 said:

Interestingly, Triumph or Destiny tours will be released in normal quality completely.

When?

Sorry, I forgot to put in the end "?"

LiLi1992 said:

Shango said:

When?

Sorry, I forgot to put in the end "?"

Aha okay

SoulAlive said:

There was a discussion on "The Michael Jackson Archives" facebook page and it was mentioned that Destiny was to be Michael's last album with the brothers but he decided to stay on for Triumph

Big mistake OTW was such an incredible album that turned Michael into a solo superstar.He didn't need his brothers after that album.After OTW,when people went to a Jacksons concert,who were they really going to see? After OTW,when people bought a Jacksons album,who were they really interested in? The biggest insult was when the brothers talked him into doing the 'Victory' album and tour.Wtf?? 'Thriller' was the biggest selling album of all-time! It was absurd for Michael to collaborate with his brothers after an album like that.He should have done a solo 'Thriller' world tour in 1983/84.For all intents and purposes,the Jacksons as a group was 'over' after Destiny.

Disagree. Without Triumph "Time Waits for No One" written by Randy and Jackie for Michael would never have seen the light of day and that would have been a travesty. MJ most creative period was definetly between Destiny and Thriller, this era was truely vintage Michael Jackson/Jacksons. If you took out all the stuff he did with his brothers Michael's body of work was quite sparse and I am sorry after Thriller as ,Vainandy said, he lost something he wanted to be all things to all people and thats not alway a good thing.

[Edited 1/17/12 15:14pm]

Damn, that's a flip of the coin.

Flip... tailes.

Destiny

Triumph is the one for me. I saw The Triumph tour with the The Jacksons and Stacy Lattisaw at Madison Square Garden. Went to dinner at Mama Leone's . Great show. Only regret was it was way too short and The Jacksons didn't play "Walk Right Now". I told Jonathan "Sugarfoot" Moffett that it should have been in the setlist. He graciously said it was a great song.

[Edited 1/25/12 19:14pm]

whatsgoingon said:

SoulAlive said:

Big mistake OTW was such an incredible album that turned Michael into a solo superstar.He didn't need his brothers after that album.After OTW,when people went to a Jacksons concert,who were they really going to see? After OTW,when people bought a Jacksons album,who were they really interested in? The biggest insult was when the brothers talked him into doing the 'Victory' album and tour.Wtf?? 'Thriller' was the biggest selling album of all-time! It was absurd for Michael to collaborate with his brothers after an album like that.He should have done a solo 'Thriller' world tour in 1983/84.For all intents and purposes,the Jacksons as a group was 'over' after Destiny.

Disagree. Without Triumph "Time Waits for No One" written by Randy and Jackie for Michael would never have seen the light of day and that would have been a travesty. MJ most creative period was definetly between Destiny and Thriller, this era was truely vintage Michael Jackson/Jacksons. If you took out all the stuff he did with his brothers Michael's body of work was quite sparse and I am sorry after Thriller as ,Vainandy said, he lost something he wanted to be all things to all people and thats not alway a good thing.

The problem is...nobody was even focusing on the Jackson brothers The attention and spotlight was on Michael,especially after OTW.How many people went to the 'Victory' tour to see Randy and Marlon? LOL,come on now.