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Geez! That fucking thing is called Rock N Roll hall of fame, so it is to be expected that Rock N Roll takes the front seat compared to dance... be glad that other genres get considered at all. | |
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That was my point. Maybe the people who complain have never read Rolling Stone. It's the same for people complaining about KISS or Rush not getting inducted. RS wasn't friendly to them either. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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N this is where my main issue is. Its RNR and it should be that period. Why not create other Hall of Fames? The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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Frankly, I donp't give a damn anymore
Gene Simmons was right, after all: the RnRHoF stinks...
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Don't say that! Don't even think it! | |
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Damn, didn't take long for this thread to run its course. | |
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There are, like one for blues, songwriters, and so on. There's a Motown museum, and Graceland for Elvis. But obviously "rock & roll" will draw more people (due to baby boomers) than a "rhythm & blues" or a "dance music" hall. More people = more money. The Rock & Roll Hall also has a lot of hype behind it. Also classic rock is supported and repackaged more by the US record labels than other genres. Dark Side Of The Moon gets a new version almost every year. They don't do that for disco albums, because there were very few "name brand" acts. Most of them were anonymous or one hit wonders, like doo wop groups and early 1960's girl groups. If you go into the average record store, the rock section is bigger and is stocked more than other genres. So the Hall in itself is not to blame really. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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like any award, list, etc...the hall of fame is just a made up honor. It is not definitive, and in the end it really means nothing other than someone has assigned value to these performers. My Legacy
http://prince.org/msg/8/192731 | |
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Bottom line. All the nominees are legends anyway. Congrats to those who got in because they all deserve it. But the ones who didn't get in especially for the FOURTH TIME it don't diminish what they've contributed... I was kinda over the anger long time ago because I know how it's run. It ain't fair but life ain't fair so... | |
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Gene Simmons is always right, lol | |
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:headshake: I rarely ever listen to free radio but everytime I do they are playing something that is knocking off 90's club music. Club/dance/disco owns today's radio. Everyone from rock (maroon 5) to pop tarts are doing it. So how is it Summers is only influencing a small genre? Space for sale... | |
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If Kraftwerk is not in, who was pre-Donna Summer and probably more of an influence to electronic dance music, why would they induct her? They induct pre-rock blues acts, but not early electronic acts like Delia Derbyshire, Raymond Scott, Alice Shields, Robert Moog, or even Sun Ra. Rolling Stone is more likely to induct guitar rock groups before synth based dance music. I like Donna, but I'm going by the history of the magazine. The Chili Peppers, Faces, and Guns & Roses are guitar based. The Cars, Duran Duran, & Depeche Mode are more synth based. Who's in? Maybe Donna will get in eventually when the boomer leadership retire. But it doesn't really make a difference anyway. Rock & Roll and music in general is not about being in a museum. A museum is for something that's dead. You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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the two that shocked me over time were John Mellencamp and Queen both almost lost out, John missed 2 tries, and Queen missed also, but both got in. The year John missed he was passed over for Percy Sledge. A big surprise to me is Bon Jovi not being back on the ballot, its very odd that they arent in, true not a critics kiss ass darling at all, but this is a band that pretty much is behind the stones and u2 in touring in the last 2 decades in terms of volume of people they played too and the worldwide appeal, plus Jovi are in the UK hall of fame ironically? "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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I don't agree with this statement. People like B'Weave, Forehead Rhianna and Kate Perry haven't a clue who Kraftwerk are. They know Madonna and Donna Summer. Space for sale... | |
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If I were to wave a magic wand in the general direction of Cleveland: 1) The committee seems good, but we want great. Make this panel as intelligent and diverse of mind as is humanly possible. 2) I don't know a lot about this process, and could certainly be wrong here, but one of the main flaws to me seems to be in how solo/groups are handled. For example, if you listen to Chaka Khan's body of work both with Rufus and as a solo artist, she is probably one of the rare first-ballot inductees. However, if you think of just Rufus as a group and just Chaka Khan as a solo artist, it muddies the water. This is perhaps in part how you end up with Smokey Robinson without the Miracles (other than the obvious bias of many in America often understanding more of the white than the black). I would just put Chaka Khan in the Hall of Fame with Rufus. And I would argue that no one is going to be confused (at least very few) if Chaka isn't inducted twice and Rufus only once. Chaka Khan's vocals and rich catalog are the very definition of genius. Does anyone in Rufus, as great as they might be, rise to that almost unheard of level without Chaka? I think this is a prime example of unnecessary compartmentalizing that's just delaying the inevitable. Both Chaka with Rufus and Chaka as a solo artist will probably get in, but considering each separately it might take another decade or two. And the fact that Eric Clapton played with 2 other groups that made it in (Yardbirds & Cream), just means that he gets inducted with them. It doesn't imply that he's better than anyone else on the planet (far from it), unless of course he were to have been the sole creator and writer behind these groups. And even then, Prince, Bob Dylan, or Joni Mitchell could've easily done that by thinking up a group name every few years with a totally new lineup. The Raw - You've got to put Prince's trench coat years in. He was as hardcore as any punk and funkier than any of them. The Flow - You've got to put Prince's most commercial years in. He influenced almost everyone at that time! The Indefinable - Yep, I know it's still Prince, but this was incredible in ways we're still trying to decipher! That's 3 inductions. And perhaps in time he'll get a 4th for everything he did from 1990 to his eventual death. And then since he didn't create in a cave, we have to start nominating some of the other band members because we think that their contributions were not only great, but rose to the level of the R&RHOF. It's all just a little bit crazy. 3) The process is flawed for sure, but it's not flawed enough yet to make it onto prime-time television.  4) Even if you somehow crafted a perfect system (one without bias, with knowledge out the ass), it still would be constantly derided until you also fix all of our flaws! 5) All issues and jokes aside, everyone on that nomination list I think will be in within the next decade or two. And I'm guessing that this insitution will probably always be there to argue about and help educate us all as to how it can and should be improved. | |
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How do you know this, did they tell you, or are you a mind reader? You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton | |
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The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame whiffs againWe know the museum is all about money, not music. Still, does it have to be this white and this lame? Clockwise from lower left: Red Hot Chili Peppers, Beastie Boys and Axl Rose Topics:Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
Here’s a quick rock trivia quiz: Which of the following acts has NOT been inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? a.) The Cure b.) Afrika Bambaataa c.) KISS d.) Quincy Jones e.) Earl Young f.) Carole King g.) New York Dolls OK, it’s a trick question. None of these artists has been included into the Hall of Fame, despite their unique contributions to the form. A jazz musician with a long career, Jones produced Michael Jackson’s “Thriller,” which ought to make him an obvious choice. Similarly, Young practically invented the disco drumbeat in the early 1970s, and later in that decade Afrika Bambaataa pioneered scratching and sampling to lay the groundwork for hip-hop. Before she notched hits as a solo artist, Carole King wrote or co-wrote smashes for Aretha Franklin, the Crystals, the Shirelles and many others. KISS is KISS, of course, but the New York Dolls gave punk a place to crash after it got off the bus from Detroit. The Cure are goth godfathers who might have outstayed their welcome but continue to exert considerable influence over younger musicians. (Adele even covers their ’90 hit “Lovesong” on her gazillion-selling, industry-saving “21.”) With all that in mind, getting upset over the annual Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductions is a bit like grousing over the Oscars or the National Book Award or baseball’s increasingly labyrinthine postseason. There’s always something to disagree with or to rage against — and to a certain extent, that grumbling is part of the point. On the most basic level, these institutions, from the Academy to pro sports, exist to get people talking. And the Hall of Fame announcements certainly accomplish that goal, dominating the entertainment news cycle for at least a day or two before getting picked up by print media for another belated round. But is it too much to ask that the institution better represent the full breadth and diversity of the rock ‘n’ roll era? Couldn’t it just try to be as edgy and challenging and broadminded as the music it seeks to enshrine? This year’s list of inductees, announced on Monday night, is almost a parody of cloistered, white-dude rock concerns, adhering to the moldy boomer ideal of rock stars as guys playing “real” instruments, lodging smash hits and sticking around for a couple of years too long. They’re worthy inductees, but still barely manage more than a yawn, much less a headline. Guns n’ Roses may be one of the best rock acts of the hair-metal era, but lately they (or, more precisely, Axl Rose) serve as a cautionary tale of the dangers of long hiatuses, canceled concerts and cornrows. The Red Hot Chili Peppers pioneered a particular brand of funk/punk rock, but influenced exactly no one. And there’s the Beastie Boys, a trio of white rappers who started out as fight-for-your-right punks and ended up as Brooklyn farmers’ market rappers. Rounding out the list: belated inductions for insufferable ‘60s folkie Donovan, underpraised songwriter Laura Nyro and the curious combination of Faces/Small Faces. But another list puts this one to shame: The nominees who fell short of induction — who didn’t garner enough votes from the 500 or so Hall of Fame members — include Joan Jett & the Blackhearts, Rufus & Chaka Khan, Donna Summer, War, the Cure and Eric B. & Rakim. For the Hall of Fame, these acts represent the margins of rock ‘n’ roll — not because they’re black, female or black and female, but because their accomplishments don’t fall into an accepted definition of rock success. Eric B. & Rakim are considered to be one of the most important hip-hop acts of the 1980s, developing an intricate vocal style that bridges the sing-speak rhyming of early rap to the tongue-twisting flow of more recent acts. They may not have had a No. 1 record, but their influence cannot be understated. Rock fans have never been kind to disco, and likewise, the Hall of Fame has never been kind to disco artists. Many of the genre’s biggest stars have been kept out of the Hall of Fame, now including Summer, who should have been a shoo-in based on her work with Giorgio Moroder alone. But disco sucks, right? Well, not really. Over the past few years, a slew of books — notably, Peter Shapiro’s “Turn the Beat Around” to Alice Echols’ “Hot Stuff: Disco and the Remaking of American Culture” — have argued very persuasively for disco as an innovative genre that provided both a loud voice and a safe haven for post-civil rights African-Americans and post-Stonewall gays. At least, that is, until the mainstream picked up on it and diluted it with lame acts like Rick Dees and the Village People. Disco is undergoing a much-needed reevaluation, but once again the Hall of Fame lags behind the most important rock history and criticism. Since its inception in 1983, the Hall of Fame has borne its share of naysaying. Detractors argue that rock is youth music corrupted by adults, that putting rock musicians in a museum only negates their rebellion, or that rock has become as entrenched in the establishment as the dull music of the ‘40s and ‘50s it was originally intended to displace. There’s no doubt that the Hall of Fame represents a dinosaur-act approach to rock success, which appears increasingly out of touch in the Internet age: More than ever before, access to all forms and genres of music is limited only by bandwidth and curiosity, which means listeners even outside the most active scenes are hearing more kinds of music and artists are incorporating much wider ranges of influence. They’re rediscovering acts like Joy Division (not inducted), the Cure (not inducted), John Fahey (not inducted), and Love (not inducted?!), among countless other obscure or semi-obscure acts. It’s more than any one lumbering institution can keep up with. Of course, many would argue that the Hall of Fame’s true mission isn’t curatorial, but commercial. According to a recent article in the New York Times, “Weekly record sales for a performer or band leap 40 to 60 percent, on average, in the weeks after selection, says David Bakula, a senior vice president at Nielsen SoundScan. While winning a Grammy often helps one album, a nod from Cleveland can lift an entire back catalog.” That’s great news for a faltering industry, especially when back catalog sales already dwarf new albums sales. In other words, the Hall of Fame isn’t going anywhere, even if it’s incredibly ill-suited for its self-appointed job of promoting rock’s back pages. | |
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I've heard them attempt to connect words in order to form a sentence. All the evidence I need. Space for sale... | |
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