rialb said:

mjscarousal said:

You asked for people to be diplomatic with critiquing Beyonce BUT you are beyond biased when it comes to Janet??? You seem to bash her because she is a weak vocalist (which everybody knows) but fail to mention influential as well as impactful albums that she had. No she isnt the greatest singer in the world but she has a pretty strong catalogue of hits and made some really influential material was creative and took risks something Beyonce has never done but you seem to think somebody is hating when that is a pretty objective true statement.

You mentioned a couple of times that Janet was "creative and took risks." How so? Is her material any more creative and risky than Beyonce's? They are basically both pop/r & b singers, I don't really see much difference between the type of music that they do.

Just strictly looking at 4 of Janets album which are Control, Rhythm Nation, Janet and Velvet Robe out of her catalogue... yes she has been alot creative and risky than Beyonce...

Control/ Rhythm Nation were two of the most influentail albums that made a strong impact in the New Jack Swing Era ... Janet covered topics such as Politics, lack of education, education, prejudice, injustice, government, poverty, worldly issues, love, independence etc.. RN is her best social consciencealbum to date...and Control she experimented with alot of different sounds such as new jack swing, , r&b, minneapolis sound etc.. Her most popular rock influence song "Black Cat" she even wrote herself... not the best written song by a pop star Ive heard but very well constructed and composed. I would say she had alot of potential to be a great songwriter is he had kept challenging herself.

Velvet Robe/Janet... with these albums Janet covered topics such as spousal abuse, homosexuality, bisexuality, intimacy, sex, loneliness, depression, self-esteem,.. she also experimented with newer sounds such as neo soul and opera music... Velvet Robe was very ecletic.

so compared to the forumulative Beyonce she has been more creative and risky if not her entire catalogue definitly with these albums..

mjscarousal said:

rialb said:

You mentioned a couple of times that Janet was "creative and took risks." How so? Is her material any more creative and risky than Beyonce's? They are basically both pop/r & b singers, I don't really see much difference between the type of music that they do.

Just strictly looking at 4 of Janets album which are Control, Rhythm Nation, Janet and Velvet Robe out of her catalogue... yes she has been alot creative and risky than Beyonce...

Control/ Rhythm Nation were two of the most influentail albums that made a strong impact in the New Jack Swing Era ... Janet covered topics such as Politics, lack of education, education, prejudice, injustice, government, poverty, worldly issues, love, independence etc.. RN is her best social consciencealbum to date...and Control she experimented with alot of different sounds such as new jack swing, , r&b, minneapolis sound etc.. Her most popular rock influence song "Black Cat" she even wrote herself... not the best written song by a pop star Ive heard but very well constructed and composed. I would say she had alot of potential to be a great songwriter is he had kept challenging herself.

Velvet Robe/Janet... with these albums Janet covered topics such as spousal abuse, homosexuality, bisexuality, intimacy, sex, loneliness, depression, self-esteem,.. she also experimented with newer sounds such as neo soul and opera music... Velvet Robe was very ecletic.

so compared to the forumulative Beyonce she has been more creative and risky if not her entire catalogue definitly with these albums..

Ah, so you are primarily talking about lyrics. Fair enough. I'm not familiar enough with Beyonce's lyrics to argue the point but I still maintain that musically there are many more similarities than differences between the two of them.

rialb said:

mjscarousal said:

Just strictly looking at 4 of Janets album which are Control, Rhythm Nation, Janet and Velvet Robe out of her catalogue... yes she has been alot creative and risky than Beyonce...

Control/ Rhythm Nation were two of the most influentail albums that made a strong impact in the New Jack Swing Era ... Janet covered topics such as Politics, lack of education, education, prejudice, injustice, government, poverty, worldly issues, love, independence etc.. RN is her best social consciencealbum to date...and Control she experimented with alot of different sounds such as new jack swing, , r&b, minneapolis sound etc.. Her most popular rock influence song "Black Cat" she even wrote herself... not the best written song by a pop star Ive heard but very well constructed and composed. I would say she had alot of potential to be a great songwriter is he had kept challenging herself.

Velvet Robe/Janet... with these albums Janet covered topics such as spousal abuse, homosexuality, bisexuality, intimacy, sex, loneliness, depression, self-esteem,.. she also experimented with newer sounds such as neo soul and opera music... Velvet Robe was very ecletic.

so compared to the forumulative Beyonce she has been more creative and risky if not her entire catalogue definitly with these albums..

Ah, so you are primarily talking about lyrics. Fair enough. I'm not familiar enough with Beyonce's lyrics to argue the point but I still maintain that musically there are many more similarities than differences between the two of them.

Well yes, lyrics, subject matter and just overall music composition.

I personally wouldnt categorize her as "innovative" or call her a" musical genius" as the SAME with Beyonce and after Velvet Robe she stopped being creative.. yes I agree with all of that BUT Janet does have a handful of classics that did make a impact, influential and at one point did push herself creatively. Not that it has anything to do with music, Janet is also is technically better dancer as well.

[Edited 12/4/11 12:41pm]

Layzie said:

kitbradley said:

Beyonce is from "da hood". And all the money, blonde hair weaves, makeup and fancy dresses can't hide it.

Since when is upper middle class hood?

You can be raised in a middle class family and still be from "da hood" if that's where most of your influences and friends came from. I know plenty of people like that.

I was raised in "da hood" but most people think I grew up in the suburbs because of my demeanor and the way that I talk.

There's nothing wrong with being from "da hood". I know a lot of people associate it with being negative and some of Beyonce's fans may take offense to anyone labeling her that way.

[Edited 12/4/11 13:11pm]

kitbradley said:

Layzie said:

Since when is upper middle class hood?

You can be raised in a middle class family and still be from "da hood" if that's where most of your influences and friends came from. I know plenty of people like that.

I was raised in "da hood" but most people think I grew up in the suburbs because of my demeanor and the way that I talk.

There's nothing wrong with being from "da hood". I know a lot of people associate it with being negative and some of Beyonce's fans may take offense to anyone labeling her that way.

[Edited 12/4/11 13:11pm]

I respectfully disagree. If you're not from there, and haven't lived through it, than you're not it. The only time she has some hood in her is when she's fucking Jay-Z. No matter who she hung out with or whatever music she listened to growing up, there's no way I'd call a woman who grew up like a Cosby Kid hood.

People trip me out with this "hood" shit. Go and spend a year in New Orlean's 9th Ward and you'll have an entire new outlook on life LOL. And Beyonce's parents made great money when she was growing up. Her neighborhood was predominately WHITE. People call her stuck up or whatever because they think she tries to hide her ethnic features with the make and weaves. The bitch probably DOES wanna be white, I don't really give a fuck. There was a brief time when the gravy train stopped and they had to stay in an apartment or something like that, but I wouldn't call having brief life troubles "hood."

Whatever the case may be she's still stupid as fuck.

Terrib3Towel said:

People trip me out with this "hood" shit. Go and spend a year in New Orlean's 9th Ward and you'll have an entire new outlook on life LOL. And Beyonce's parents made great money when she was growing up. Her neighborhood was predominately WHITE. People call her stuck up or whatever because they think she tries to hide her ethnic features with the make and weaves. The bitch probably DOES wanna be white, I don't really give a fuck. There was a brief time when the gravy train stopped and they had to stay in an apartment or something like that, but I wouldn't call having brief life troubles "hood."

Whatever the case may be she's still stupid as fuck.

Pretty much. That's why I found DC singing a song like Soldier hilarious.

Terrib3Towel said:

People trip me out with this "hood" shit. Go and spend a year in New Orlean's 9th Ward and you'll have an entire new outlook on life LOL. And Beyonce's parents made great money when she was growing up. Her neighborhood was predominately WHITE. People call her stuck up or whatever because they think she tries to hide her ethnic features with the make and weaves. The bitch probably DOES wanna be white, I don't really give a fuck. There was a brief time when the gravy train stopped and they had to stay in an apartment or something like that, but I wouldn't call having brief life troubles "hood."

Whatever the case may be she's still stupid as fuck.

You're wrong. The Knowles are from the Third Ward, a historic black community in Houston. And this "wanna be white" tag is getting lopsided to me. Did Janet Jackson want to white for fucking up her nose? Toni Braxton wears weave. Ciara. I'm just throwing out names. Diana Ross practically invented wigs in the 60s. Name me one high profile black celebrity that doesn't and I'm sure the list will be short. Why is Beyonce the only one called out for it? Oh that's right...because she's number one.

musicjunky318 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

People trip me out with this "hood" shit. Go and spend a year in New Orlean's 9th Ward and you'll have an entire new outlook on life LOL. And Beyonce's parents made great money when she was growing up. Her neighborhood was predominately WHITE. People call her stuck up or whatever because they think she tries to hide her ethnic features with the make and weaves. The bitch probably DOES wanna be white, I don't really give a fuck. There was a brief time when the gravy train stopped and they had to stay in an apartment or something like that, but I wouldn't call having brief life troubles "hood."

Whatever the case may be she's still stupid as fuck.

You're wrong. The Knowles are from the Third Ward, a historic black community in Houston. And this "wanna be white" tag is getting lopsided to me. Did Janet Jackson want to white for fucking up her nose? Toni Braxton wears weave. Ciara. I'm just throwing out names. Diana Ross practically invented wigs in the 60s. Name me one high profile black celebrity that doesn't and I'm sure the list will be short. Why is Beyonce the only one called out for it? Oh that's right...because she's number one.

Janet and Toni also cut their hair really really short and wore their natural hair. Things that go back home to the ethnic roots and not the typical European look that Beyonce has gone by since she first came out with DC.

They didnt stick to the formulic blonde big hair.. ALSO with the clothes.. it was different.. they wore nice dresses but that wasnt all they were... I think Janet one time showed up in black sunglasses, jeans, had her crazy natural red hair and regular shirt with her septum nose pierce and all its glory to a damn CD signing... Beyonce would never do something like that.. You know what to expect from her.. She would probably wear the same blond weave, heels and a nice dress...

Beyonces European look goes BEYOND the blonde weave and she seems to like it because she know it works.. well it does but its nothing "artistic" about it and it shows that the inaccurate depiction of African Americans in the media STILL has not change.. part is the medias fought and then the other part is Beyonce herself..

I'm not bashing her but it would be nice if we had some sistas be themselves and embrace their heritage.. Like Jill and Janelle..

Some of you Beyonce fans are not being rational at all.. it seems that everything is perfect in Beyonces world... watever

musicjunky318 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

People trip me out with this "hood" shit. Go and spend a year in New Orlean's 9th Ward and you'll have an entire new outlook on life LOL. And Beyonce's parents made great money when she was growing up. Her neighborhood was predominately WHITE. People call her stuck up or whatever because they think she tries to hide her ethnic features with the make and weaves. The bitch probably DOES wanna be white, I don't really give a fuck. There was a brief time when the gravy train stopped and they had to stay in an apartment or something like that, but I wouldn't call having brief life troubles "hood."

Whatever the case may be she's still stupid as fuck.

You're wrong. The Knowles are from the Third Ward, a historic black community in Houston. And this "wanna be white" tag is getting lopsided to me. Did Janet Jackson want to white for fucking up her nose? Toni Braxton wears weave. Ciara. I'm just throwing out names. Diana Ross practically invented wigs in the 60s. Name me one high profile black celebrity that doesn't and I'm sure the list will be short. Why is Beyonce the only one called out for it? Oh that's right...because she's number one.

LOL..You like Beyonce. I do not. Nothing you say is going to change that. I really wish you people hadn't hi-jacked my thread into Janet vs. Beyonce. FTR Beyonce is NOT number 1, Adele is and rightfully so. She's 10x the artists Beyonce will ever be.

musicjunky318 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

People trip me out with this "hood" shit. Go and spend a year in New Orlean's 9th Ward and you'll have an entire new outlook on life LOL. And Beyonce's parents made great money when she was growing up. Her neighborhood was predominately WHITE. People call her stuck up or whatever because they think she tries to hide her ethnic features with the make and weaves. The bitch probably DOES wanna be white, I don't really give a fuck. There was a brief time when the gravy train stopped and they had to stay in an apartment or something like that, but I wouldn't call having brief life troubles "hood."

Whatever the case may be she's still stupid as fuck.

You're wrong. The Knowles are from the Third Ward, a historic black community in Houston. And this "wanna be white" tag is getting lopsided to me. Did Janet Jackson want to white for fucking up her nose? Toni Braxton wears weave. Ciara. I'm just throwing out names. Diana Ross practically invented wigs in the 60s. Name me one high profile black celebrity that doesn't and I'm sure the list will be short. Why is Beyonce the only one called out for it? Oh that's right...because she's number one.

I've always wondered why Beyonce is the only one called out for wearing a weave in her hair. Janet does it all the time, except when she took it off/ "cut it" recently. I would bet money that some Janet stans will claim that her hair "suddenly grew" the length that she is wearing it now. LOL, I've even noticed in Hair Style Magazines that they refer to Janet's hair as if it is her own and then call other artists' hair weaves. FTR, Beyonce's REAL hair is longer than Janet's and always has been. I'm not making excuses for Beyonce, but damn give me a break. She is NOT the only artist to wear weave in her hair. Practically, every female (R&B and pop) wears "weave" in their hair. You can bet that when Beyonce cuts her hair the Beyonce haters will hate on that too and say that she is copying Janet, as IF, Janet invented hair that is short. Btw, is it wrong to think that Beyonce is perfect when Janet fans/stans think that she is?

Terrib3Towel said:

musicjunky318 said:

You're wrong. The Knowles are from the Third Ward, a historic black community in Houston. And this "wanna be white" tag is getting lopsided to me. Did Janet Jackson want to white for fucking up her nose? Toni Braxton wears weave. Ciara. I'm just throwing out names. Diana Ross practically invented wigs in the 60s. Name me one high profile black celebrity that doesn't and I'm sure the list will be short. Why is Beyonce the only one called out for it? Oh that's right...because she's number one.

LOL..You like Beyonce. I do not. Nothing you say is going to change that. I really wish you people hadn't hi-jacked my thread into Janet vs. Beyonce. FTR Beyonce is NOT number 1, Adele is and rightfully so. She's 10x the artists Beyonce will ever be.

I know. We need to spread the hate to include some more worthy recipients, like Rhianna, Lady Ga Ga, Chris Brown and Eminem.

kitbradley said:

Terrib3Towel said:

LOL..You like Beyonce. I do not. Nothing you say is going to change that. I really wish you people hadn't hi-jacked my thread into Janet vs. Beyonce. FTR Beyonce is NOT number 1, Adele is and rightfully so. She's 10x the artists Beyonce will ever be.

I know. We need to spread the hate to include some more worthy recipients, like Rhianna, Lady Ga Ga, Chris Brown and Eminem.

oh and it's Gaga

Free2BMe said:

musicjunky318 said:

You're wrong. The Knowles are from the Third Ward, a historic black community in Houston. And this "wanna be white" tag is getting lopsided to me. Did Janet Jackson want to white for fucking up her nose? Toni Braxton wears weave. Ciara. I'm just throwing out names. Diana Ross practically invented wigs in the 60s. Name me one high profile black celebrity that doesn't and I'm sure the list will be short. Why is Beyonce the only one called out for it? Oh that's right...because she's number one.

I've always wondered why Beyonce is the only one called out for wearing a weave in her hair. Janet does it all the time, except when she took it off/ "cut it" recently. I would bet money that some Janet stans will claim that her hair "suddenly grew" the length that she is wearing it now. LOL, I've even noticed in Hair Style Magazines that they refer to Janet's hair as if it is her own and then call other artists' hair weaves. FTR, Beyonce's REAL hair is longer than Janet's and always has been. I'm not making excuses for Beyonce, but damn give me a break. She is NOT the only artist to wear weave in her hair. Practically, every female (R&B and pop) wears "weave" in their hair. You can bet that when Beyonce cuts her hair the Beyonce haters will hate on that too and say that she is copying Janet, as IF, Janet invented hair that is short. Btw, is it wrong to think that Beyonce is perfect when Janet fans/stans think that she is?

Now you need to STFU now because your allowing your Beyonce stan in you to make delusional statements..Yes Janet cut her hair... BUT EVEN before she had a fairly nice length of her without her extensions...

Its funny that your acting like her short hair was her REAL hair forgetting the fact that she CUT her hair and her has always been long.. Janet naturally has/had long hair.. ALL the Jackson sisters have nice hair including Katherine..

NO ONE said she has not worn weaves or extensions but if you look at all the JACKSON SISTERS they all have nice length of hair DOWN TO THEIR SHOULDERS WITHOUT WEAVE...and you claim to be a MJ fan... you need to sit down some where...

Beyonce has very thin short hair without her weave... period.

Yikes! Has this thread really devolved into a debate about Janet and Beyonce's hair? Come on, people, we can do so much better than this!

rialb said:

Yikes! Has this thread really devolved into a debate about Janet and Beyonce's hair? Come on, people, we can do so much better than this!

rialb said:

Yikes! Has this thread really devolved into a debate about Janet and Beyonce's hair? Come on, people, we can do so much better than this!

I know!! But let the weave flyin and wig snatching continue please!!

ScarletScandal said:

People defending Janet Jackson for delivering socially conscious, political or in any other way important lyrics... give me a break please.

What do you really know about the world when you are brought up within a family, that seemed determined in the first place to score commercially and finally. Joe Jackson is no intellectual light, to put it mildly.

IMO Janet Jackson is seen way out of proportion on Prince.org:

She delivered two albums with decent music (Control and Rhythem Nation), that owed a lot to Jimmy Jams and Terry Lewis'songwriting and production) that scored 'big'. After that, she might have had some succes in the USA, but over here in Europe, she was mainly forgotten.

And before you say: commercial succes isn't anything, i would like to say: the lack of a convincing singing voice, the lack of talent for songwriting, the lack of making substantial music, is just as important.

And unfortunately for you, it matters: Janet did ride along on her brothers fame, she delivered two good albums (thanks to others), but when people nowadays are critical of her you threat her like she is on the level of Billie Hollieday or Aretha Franklin at her peak.

You threat her like some visionary artist who changed the (musical) world, when she resembles the likes of Katy Perry and Beyonce, instead of artists like Joni Mitchell and Ella Fitzgerald.

Husky said:

People defending Janet Jackson for delivering socially conscious, political or in any other way important lyrics... give me a break please.

What do you really know about the world when you are brought up within a family, that seemed determined in the first place to score commercially and finally. Joe Jackson is no intellectual light, to put it mildly.

IMO Janet Jackson is seen way out of proportion on Prince.org:

She delivered two albums with decent music (Control and Rhythem Nation), that owed a lot to Jimmy Jams and Terry Lewis'songwriting and production) that scored 'big'. After that, she might have had some succes in the USA, but over here in Europe, she was mainly forgotten.

And before you say: commercial succes isn't anything, i would like to say: the lack of a convincing singing voice, the lack of talent for songwriting, the lack of making substantial music, is just as important.

And unfortunately for you, it matters: Janet did ride along on her brothers fame, she delivered two good albums (thanks to others), but when people nowadays are critical of her you threat her like she is on the level of Billie Hollieday or Aretha Franklin at her peak.

You threat her like some visionary artist who changed the (musical) world, when she resembles the likes of Katy Perry and Beyonce, instead of artists like Joni Mitchell and Ella Fitzgerald.

Unholyalliance said:

Husky said:

People defending Janet Jackson for delivering socially conscious, political or in any other way important lyrics... give me a break please.

What do you really know about the world when you are brought up within a family, that seemed determined in the first place to score commercially and finally. Joe Jackson is no intellectual light, to put it mildly.

IMO Janet Jackson is seen way out of proportion on Prince.org:

She delivered two albums with decent music (Control and Rhythem Nation), that owed a lot to Jimmy Jams and Terry Lewis'songwriting and production) that scored 'big'. After that, she might have had some succes in the USA, but over here in Europe, she was mainly forgotten.

And before you say: commercial succes isn't anything, i would like to say: the lack of a convincing singing voice, the lack of talent for songwriting, the lack of making substantial music, is just as important.

And unfortunately for you, it matters: Janet did ride along on her brothers fame, she delivered two good albums (thanks to others), but when people nowadays are critical of her you threat her like she is on the level of Billie Hollieday or Aretha Franklin at her peak.

You threat her like some visionary artist who changed the (musical) world, when she resembles the likes of Katy Perry and Beyonce, instead of artists like Joni Mitchell and Ella Fitzgerald.

At least Janet doesn't have illiterate fans

Janet Jackson has fans being stuck in a time period 20 years from now.

People here still seem to think that Janet Jackson is any different from Katy Perry, Beyonce or Lada Gaga.

Janet was a hitparade-artist in the eighties with a very thin voice, that relied on two albums being witten and produced by others (Jam and Lewis). Janet was as much 'producers-pop' as Katy Perry, Rihanna or Lady Gaga are now.

I can't take people seriously who say Janets music is any better or more deep then the hitparade-crap by the likes of Katy Perry or lady Gaga. It just as useless.

Husky said:

Janet Jackson has fans being stuck in a time period 20 years from now.

People here still seem to think that Janet Jackson is any different from Katy Perry, Beyonce or Lada Gaga.

Janet was a hitparade-artist in the eighties with a very thin voice, that relied on two albums being witten and produced by others (Jam and Lewis). Janet was as much 'producers-pop' as Katy Perry, Rihanna or Lady Gaga are now.

I can't take people seriously who say Janets music is any better or more deep then the hitparade-crap by the likes of Katy Perry or lady Gaga. It just as useless.

Well then I guess you don't care that she made the lyrical masterpiece of the 90's. She actually co-produced her own music. In fact a lot of the time she mainly oroduced it and Jimmy Jam and Terry just helped out. Trolls will trolls so whatever. Also a thin voice? So what?

Of course you dont want to read, because its then you realise that Janet Jackson is as much shallow producer-pop like Katy Perry and Lady Gaga is....

The lyrical masterpiece of the nineties? geeze... how stupid you are.

Naive 'we are the world, lets be nice together views of the world' from the Jackson family, while that is a totally dysfunctional family...

Anyone who has being lypsynching for the last 15 years or so, just like her deceised brother, is simply NO artist.

Anyone who keeps defending that kind of plastic, dated shit, doesnt really care about music, but only about gossip it seems

Husky said:

Anyone who has being lypsynching for the last 15 years or so, just like her deceised brother, is simply NO artist.

Anyone who keeps defending that kind of plastic, dated shit, doesnt really care about music, but only about gossip it seems

Indeed, who takes into account the previous 20 years, fully live performance?
Michael gave a few live concerts? Really? All concerts with Jackson 5 Destiny Tour, Tour Triumph, Victory Tour, Bad Tour. It is a small legacy? And he personally and without co- wrote most of his big hits.

Husky said:

Husky said:

People defending Janet Jackson for delivering socially conscious, political or in any other way important lyrics... give me a break please.

What do you really know about the world when you are brought up within a family, that seemed determined in the first place to score commercially and finally. Joe Jackson is no intellectual light, to put it mildly.

IMO Janet Jackson is seen way out of proportion on Prince.org:

She delivered two albums with decent music (Control and Rhythem Nation), that owed a lot to Jimmy Jams and Terry Lewis'songwriting and production) that scored 'big'. After that, she might have had some succes in the USA, but over here in Europe, she was mainly forgotten.

And before you say: commercial succes isn't anything, i would like to say: the lack of a convincing singing voice, the lack of talent for songwriting, the lack of making substantial music, is just as important.

And unfortunately for you, it matters: Janet did ride along on her brothers fame, she delivered two good albums (thanks to others), but when people nowadays are critical of her you threat her like she is on the level of Billie Hollieday or Aretha Franklin at her peak.

You threat her like some visionary artist who changed the (musical) world, when she resembles the likes of Katy Perry and Beyonce, instead of artists like Joni Mitchell and Ella Fitzgerald.

Reading is fundamental... thats ALL ima say to this

Husky said:

Anyone who has being lypsynching for the last 15 years or so, just like her deceised brother, is simply NO artist.

Anyone who keeps defending that kind of plastic, dated shit, doesnt really care about music, but only about gossip it seems

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