neonlights said:

This list is a joke! Rolling Stone never fails to squeeze in some overrated, mediocre white (sorry, but it's the truth) artist in the Top 10 of their lists.

Clapton #2? Pfft.

Who do you think should have been in the top ten and which "mediocre white artist" would you kick out?

NDRU said:

Yes, in the end it is just a poll, and the results are way different than even the same list in the same magazing from another year.

But I agree, "best" is something of an irritating word because it implies something quantifiable about the playing, where even "greatest" is an improvement as it's a little more vague, incorporating impact and popularity along with the pure technical skill that "best" suggests.

A slight improvement...

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

theAudience said:

rialb said:

Well, maybe not on any pre 1967 lists.

Did they even make these kinds of lists that far back? If so I bet it would be funny to see who made the cut.

If you're not limited to Rock/Pop/R&B artists, Downbeat magazine has been running a "Readers Poll" since 1936 and a "Critics Poll" since 1953.

Both of which include a Guitar category:

http://www.downbeat.com/d...cpollindex

Their picks focus on Jazz players and loosen up to include at least some Fusion players in later years.




Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

Interesting. I was heartened to see that my main man Barney Kessel took top honours in 1953 and 1959.

rialb said:

theAudience said:

If you're not limited to Rock/Pop/R&B artists, Downbeat magazine has been running a "Readers Poll" since 1936 and a "Critics Poll" since 1953.

Both of which include a Guitar category:

http://www.downbeat.com/d...cpollindex

Their picks focus on Jazz players and loosen up to include at least some Fusion players in later years.

Interesting. I was heartened to see that my main man Barney Kessel took top honours in 1953 and 1959.

Cool.

I haven't scanned every year's list yet but along with Kessel i'd expect to also see names like Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, Wes Montgomery, Charlie Christian, Kenny Burrell, Johnny Smith and a number of other heavyweight Jazzers claim a few #1 spots.



Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

Gunsnhalen said:

Eric may seem ''ignorant'' to everyone. But i have a hunch none of you have listened to his albums, He does fantatsic bluesy playing on his albums. And has created some great records

Not to mention he played for Cream, The Yardbirds, Bad Faith.. he has made tons of famous riffs & solos.

And your going to act like he doesn't deserve any credit? get out of here

Oh he deserves tons of credit just not No. 2 of all time credit, i love Cream, Blind Faith, Derek and the Dominoes and his 70's solo alnums are great, it's just if i had to pick my top 5 guitarist of all time he wouldn't get a sniff. There's loads of other guitarists that are better than him.

rialb said:

Timmy84 said:

I heard Eric was real ignorant anyways... Duane Allman was the reason "Layla" became a classic.

I would give Jim Gordon quite a bit of the credit for the success of "Layla." He was the one that contributed the piano bit on the end of the song.

Of course, but hit radio would only play the single version that omitted that bit, personally it doesn't sound right without it, luckily i don't listen to a 'hit' radio station

bigd74 said:

rialb said:

I would give Jim Gordon quite a bit of the credit for the success of "Layla." He was the one that contributed the piano bit on the end of the song.

Of course, but hit radio would only play the single version that omitted that bit, personally it doesn't sound right without it, luckily i don't listen to a 'hit' radio station

Yes, the edit only sounds like half a song and I think most people prefer the full version.

theAudience said:

NDRU said:

Yes, in the end it is just a poll, and the results are way different than even the same list in the same magazing from another year.

But I agree, "best" is something of an irritating word because it implies something quantifiable about the playing, where even "greatest" is an improvement as it's a little more vague, incorporating impact and popularity along with the pure technical skill that "best" suggests.

A slight improvement...

Music for adventurous listeners

tA

Tribal Records

It's one of my personal things, the distinction between "best" and "greatest"

Especially in art, there really is no best. But often you can see that a guitar player with amazing technical skills is still not the greatest because he does not connect with people, or because it's not anything new or interesting.

But even in sports, you might say a player from a previous era is the "greatest ever" based on what he did against the other players of his time, even though a modern player might be better--like Barry Bonds vs Babe Ruth.

That's why, IMO Jimi was so ahead of his time as a rock guitar player, that even though a lot of modern players could do any lick he ever played, and at twice the speed, that his innovation and skills compared to his peers, along with his impact and legacy make him pretty clearly the greatest ever [in rock] even though Steve Vai is pretty obviously "better"

That's my theory

I really felt like a cool dude that I was trowing in Nels Cline. I know I don't have the knowledge and musical experience you guys have, but at least I was trying to participate. And then nobody gave their opionon on mr. Cline

Well, at least I can trow in my opinion on Clapton's rant. I think if anybody has some audio or video material of it, it should be released on you tube. So, he'll get confronted with it with the current social climate. He sure would never get away with it.

No matter what kind of good guitar player he is. (actually I was brought up with the idea that he was a great guitar player. His records were on the turn table a lot in our house. Yes, a white family. In my parents defense, there was a lot of 'black' music at the turn table too)

What i don't get, is that certain white guitar players (and white artists in general), in this case Eric Clapton, often get accussed of 'stealing' black music?

Isn't it more about certain white artists being INSPIRED by the efforts of black musicians?

You cant blame these artists themselves for becoming popular with music that was considerd 'black' i think. It was more the result of record executives thinking: i can sell this music better when its performed by a white artist. These marketeers were the ones with the prejudices in the first place, not the creative ones, the musicians.

I remember seeing a picture of The Beatles meeting Little Richard. They were sitting around him with a smile from ear to ear, just like little kids who do meet Santa Clause: proud, an in awe with meeting one of their idols. And try to count how many times Keith Richard has praised Chuck Berry?

You just see a bunch of musicians being creatively inspired by other ones: that the originators did have another colour of skin then the ones who made it popular, shouldnt matter for the ones enjoying the artistry and creativity, shouldnt it?

In response to Husky as to why ''white'' people stealing black music has to be brought up. Because someone needs someone to blame it's rather insane

I adore & respect black music, and know that a good majority of music is from African roots. As a white man myself, it annoys me that when a white guitarist is shown in light someone has to say it's all white politics and yada yada

If your good YOUR good no matter what color. So fuck you assholes having to bring race into everything. And bringing the ''white'' people stole everything crap

[Edited 11/29/11 12:42pm]

I personally loathe to bring race or skin-colour into everything, but when people start to attack Eric Clapton because he might have 'stolen' the blues from black people, i react.

I also react when i think that someone like B.B. King is placed too low on the list.

So spare me the prejudiced, shortminded crap please.

Husky said:

I personally loathe to bring race or skin-colour into everything, but when people start to attack Eric Clapton because he might have 'stolen' the blues from black people, i react.

I also react when i think that someone like B.B. King is placed too low on the list.

So spare me the prejudiced, shortminded crap please.

Boo, that was directed at the other people not you the ones saying they put white people in there because of ''white politics'' not cause of what you said

I'm just mad Todd and Ernie weren't recognized and neither was Ritchie Blackmore or Steve Vai. Even Beck deserved a higher rating to me. And Eddie Hazel was placed too low and Michael Hampton wasn't recognized at all.

Husky said:

I personally loathe to bring race or skin-colour into everything, but when people start to attack Eric Clapton because he might have 'stolen' the blues from black people, i react.

I also react when i think that someone like B.B. King is placed too low on the list.

So spare me the prejudiced, shortminded crap please.

I changed it to where it doesn't look like i'm reffering to you

Some people here are too eager to play the 'racism card' i think.

John Mayer said something i dont like: i dont listen to him anymore

Eric Clapton did say something: he is a racist, and therefore not a great guitarist anymore.

As if black people never say stupid things....

The political correct preocuppation among afro-americans is something i never did get.

Fuck all this racial shit... what did YOU wanted at the top ten?

Timmy84 said:

I'm just mad Todd and Ernie weren't recognized and neither was Ritchie Blackmore or Steve Vai. Even Beck deserved a higher rating to me. And Eddie Hazel was placed too low and Michael Hampton wasn't recognized at all.

Yes, it's rather insane Todd never gets love. He is such a versatile and powerful guitarists. Ritchie has made many great rifts & solos, that are constantly played today.... i didn't know he didn't even get a spot

As for Steve Vai, RS seems to have a thing against a lot of Vituaso guitar player of the 80's & 90's

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

I'm just mad Todd and Ernie weren't recognized and neither was Ritchie Blackmore or Steve Vai. Even Beck deserved a higher rating to me. And Eddie Hazel was placed too low and Michael Hampton wasn't recognized at all.

Yes, it's rather insane Todd never gets love. He is such a versatile and powerful guitarists. Ritchie has made many great rifts & solos, that are constantly played today.... i didn't know he didn't even get a spot

As for Steve Vai, RS seems to have a thing against a lot of Vituaso guitar player of the 80's & 90's

Remember this was the same mag that shitted on Led Zeppelin's greatest works yet they're kissing Jimmy's ass.

I aint looking for 'racial shit',

But when some people start calling out Eric Clapton, and rate him down on something he might have said years ago, and that they perceive as 'racist', and that result in Clapton being labeled as some thief, instead of someone who has been inspired by black guitarists before him, i say, fuck that.

When you are that ignorant, it is your own issue.

Gunsnhalen said:

As for Steve Vai, RS seems to have a thing against a lot of Vituaso guitar player of the 80's & 90's

Yes, Eddie Van Halen is often ignored in these lists too, when he caused a revolution in guitar playing. I guess because people did not like the revolution they discount it.

At least Eddie is mentioned in this one.

But yeah, what more could Steve Vai do as a guitar player to be on a top 100 list?! Ridiculous!

NDRU said:

Gunsnhalen said:

As for Steve Vai, RS seems to have a thing against a lot of Vituaso guitar player of the 80's & 90's

Yes, Eddie Van Halen is often ignored in these lists too, when he caused a revolution in guitar playing. I guess because people did not like the revolution they discount it.

At least Eddie is mentioned in this one.

But yeah, what more could Steve Vai do as a guitar player to be on a top 100 list?! Ridiculous!

Yeah I was kinda surprised Eddie wasn't included. Regardless of his attitude nowadays, Eddie definitely stood out. Shame.

Where was Steve Clark at too!? Boy from Def Leppard?!

[Edited 11/29/11 13:19pm]

Timmy84 said:

NDRU said:

Yes, Eddie Van Halen is often ignored in these lists too, when he caused a revolution in guitar playing. I guess because people did not like the revolution they discount it.

At least Eddie is mentioned in this one.

But yeah, what more could Steve Vai do as a guitar player to be on a top 100 list?! Ridiculous!

Yeah I was kinda surprised Eddie wasn't included. Regardless of his attitude nowadays, Eddie definitely stood out. Shame.

Where was Steve Willis at too!? Boy from Def Leppard?!

Eddie's #8 on this list, but I've seen him left off others, or listed below a Cobain or a Lennon

NDRU said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah I was kinda surprised Eddie wasn't included. Regardless of his attitude nowadays, Eddie definitely stood out. Shame.

Where was Steve Willis at too!? Boy from Def Leppard?!

Eddie's #8 on this list, but I've seen him left off others, or listed below a Cobain or a Lennon

Oh OK. I was about to say...

Sometimes black racists have the idea that pop-music is all a 'black' invention, but when you look at the early rock-roll its a mixture of black R&B and white country / bluegrass.

And during the years it has been a matter of interaction:

The Beatles were influenced by Little Richard and Motown (a 'white' take on R and B in the first place), but at the same time did incorporate elements of the folk / country elements of the Everly Brothers, the Vaudeville movement, and the popular semi-classical crooners.

For years the influence of black musicians on popular music has seemed to be ignored by many, but nowadays it leads to some incorrect image of 'all' popular music being invented by black people, which simply isnt true.

Rock and roll is as much R and B and Bluegrass, while The Beatles injected a heavy dose of melodicism and harmonies into it, aking to folkmusic, vaudeville, and light-classical influences.

IMO People here are going way overboard when they accuse white musicians of 'stealing' black music.

It has always been a mixture: get a fucking life.

Timmy84 said:

NDRU said:

Yes, Eddie Van Halen is often ignored in these lists too, when he caused a revolution in guitar playing. I guess because people did not like the revolution they discount it.

At least Eddie is mentioned in this one.

But yeah, what more could Steve Vai do as a guitar player to be on a top 100 list?! Ridiculous!

Yeah I was kinda surprised Eddie wasn't included. Regardless of his attitude nowadays, Eddie definitely stood out. Shame.

Where was Steve Willis at too!? Boy from Def Leppard?!

I think you may be combining Pete Willis and Steve Clark into a single person. Steve and Pete were founding members. Pete left in 1982 and was replaced by Phil Collen. Steve died in 1991 and was replaced by Vivian Campbell.

Which reminds me, Thin Lizzy kind of got snubbed a little bit. They were very influential with their twin guitar lines. I can see that it might be difficult to single out any one guy but maybe they should have made an exception and inluded "Thin Lizzy guitarists" as a single entry? At the very least Brian, Scott and Gary deserved some kind of recognition.

rialb said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah I was kinda surprised Eddie wasn't included. Regardless of his attitude nowadays, Eddie definitely stood out. Shame.

Where was Steve Willis at too!? Boy from Def Leppard?!

I think you may be combining Pete Willis and Steve Clark into a single person. Steve and Pete were founding members. Pete left in 1982 and was replaced by Phil Collen. Steve died in 1991 and was replaced by Vivian Campbell.

Which reminds me, Thin Lizzy kind of got snubbed a little bit. They were very influential with their twin guitar lines. I can see that it might be difficult to single out any one guy but maybe they should have made an exception and inluded "Thin Lizzy guitarists" as a single entry? At the very least Brian, Scott and Gary deserved some kind of recognition.

I am. Steve CLARK! Yeah I meant to say him.

Timmy84 said:

Fuck all this racial shit... what did YOU wanted at the top ten?

AMEN

Any who this would be my top 20....

1. Robert Johnson- King of the blues, and you can hear almost every blues guitarist’s borrow his style

2. Frank Zappa- Could play anything, ANYTHING, Could play with orchestras, jazz, rock, psychedelic, metal, classical, doo-wop, and has over 60 albums of a fine body of work

3. Eddie Van Halen- Made fingers tapping mainstream, incredible finger style, some of the best rifts of all time, constantly being Borrowed.

4. Buddy Guy- one of the blues greats can play with lots of emotion, as if his guitar is crying or laughing. He has the art down

5. Chuck Berry- One of the kings of rock n roll and king of the 3-chord rock progression

6. Stevie Ray Vaughn- Brought blues back to the mainstream and played it excellent

7. Jimi Hendrix- He brought rock, psychedelic, blues, jazz together perfectly

8. The Great Kat- The best female shredder there ever was imo, she fused classical & metal in a way no artists did at the time. Here solos are insane... but she never gets talked about

9. Bo Diddley- One of the most inventive in the doo-wop blues mixes, and he has inspired 95 percent of the rock world from yesterday to today.

10. Prince- This is a prince fan sit do i need to say more? lol

11. Wes Montgomery- Possibly the best jazz guitarists ever

12. Albert King- One of the fastest pickers, and the feeling, sound and everything was top notch and it's hard to hear playing this sharp nowadays

13. Eric Clapton- He can play ANY blues style, brought blues to mainstream, and was in 2 of the best bands of all time Cream & The Yardbirds.

14. Neil young- the grandfather of Grunge, and he was a great country, new wave, rock player.

15. Tony Iomi- Created metal, and some of the best rifts ever.. And the sound is amazing.

16. BB King- I don't think i need to say much for BB

17. Steve Vai- One of the great vituaso players, played with Zappa, and is way better then Yngwie and the rest imo

18. Joni Mitchell- My favorite Accoustic female player

19. Jack White- Yes i put him here, cause he is the most influential player of this generation or my generation: lol:

20. Todd Rundgren- I don't need to explain this one

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

Fuck all this racial shit... what did YOU wanted at the top ten?

AMEN

Any who this would be my top 20....

1. Robert Johnson- King of the blues, and you can hear almost every blues guitarist’s borrow his style

2. Frank Zappa- Could play anything, ANYTHING, Could play with orchestras, jazz, rock, psychedelic, metal, classical, doo-wop, and has over 60 albums of a fine body of work

3. Eddie Van Halen- Made fingers tapping mainstream, incredible finger style, some of the best rifts of all time, constantly being Borrowed.

4. Buddy Guy- one of the blues greats can play with lots of emotion, as if his guitar is crying or laughing. He has the art down

5. Chuck Berry- One of the kings of rock n roll and king of the 3-chord rock progression

6. Stevie Ray Vaughn- Brought blues back to the mainstream and played it excellent

7. Jimi Hendrix- He brought rock, psychedelic, blues, jazz together perfectly

8. The Great Kat- The best female shredder there ever was imo, she fused classical & metal in a way no artists did at the time. Here solos are insane... but she never gets talked about

9. Bo Diddley- One of the most inventive in the doo-wop blues mixes, and he has inspired 95 percent of the rock world from yesterday to today.

10. Prince- This is a prince fan sit do i need to say more? lol

11. Wes Montgomery- Possibly the best jazz guitarists ever

12. Albert King- One of the fastest pickers, and the feeling, sound and everything was top notch and it's hard to hear playing this sharp nowadays

13. Eric Clapton- He can play ANY blues style, brought blues to mainstream, and was in 2 of the best bands of all time Cream & The Yardbirds.

14. Neil young- the grandfather of Grunge, and he was a great country, new wave, rock player.

15. Tony Iomi- Created metal, and some of the best rifts ever.. And the sound is amazing.

16. BB King- I don't think i need to say much for BB

17. Steve Vai- One of the great vituaso players, played with Zappa, and is way better then Yngwie and the rest imo

18. Joni Mitchell- My favorite Accoustic female player

19. Jack White- Yes i put him here, cause he is the most influential player of this generation or my generation: lol:

20. Todd Rundgren- I don't need to explain this one

Nice one.

dirtyman2005 said:

RnBAmbassador said:

These lists should only include living persons, and also have established criteria.

Keith Richards in front of Jeff Beck is a pure piece of fuckery. Jimmy Page hasn;t been relevant since Led Zepppelin's demise. Eric Clapton is stagnant. Jeff Beck is the best in terms of the Rolling Stone Magazine era. Also for all intents and purposes, Keith Richards is walking dead. Jimi Hendrix did not leave enough of a body of work in 4 years to keep being named the best of all-time.

what the fuck are you on? crack or meth?

of course Jimi left enough body of work. what are you, jeff beck's personal handjob consultant?

fucks sake

jimi was and always will be the greatest, so just accept the damn fact.