mancabdriver said:

I just watched the documentary - i recorded it from friday night.

It was ok - but I thought they rushed the last bit of her career - not mentioning 20YO or Discipline. Could have been maybe 10 minutes longer.

But I really liked the comparisons of RN1814 to What's going on.

A bit too much Michael at the beginning for my liking.

there was some mj stuff they could have left out. when they were talking about the whole mtv/thriller stuff it felt like a mj documentary

Ellie said:

I watched it last night.

I thought the production of the doc wasn't that great. I mean the voiceover woman was really dull and monotonous, and they kept showing the same 30 seconds of video clips more than once, rather than just carrying on with other clips. I didn't get why they had to do that at all.

I always dislike the way anyone talking about Janet saying she had to "save" Michael by "helping" him on 'Scream' - that theory only makes sense to Americans as MJ was and always had been much bigger than her at all times outside the US. It was also only 3 1/2 years between Dangerous and HIStory, not 5.

Michael aside as I always split hairs when anyone mentions him in a documentary, I enjoyed how comprehensive it was for her albums up to All For You... impressed that they got Janet for a sit-down interview too - imagine if they got Prince for next week! I doubt it

i didnt hear anybody say she 'saved' him but its a fact he needed her at that time more then she's ever needed him in her career, he knew it and thats why he asked her to do it. i know how big he was around the world at that time but nobody is gonna make me believe mj wouldnt give anything to be on top in america again.the love and respect in this country didnt really return until he died, which is sad.

unique said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Anybody got a different link for the whole documentary yet? I'd really like to see the part that was left out. Overall, I thoght the doc was well done and I learned facts I didn't know before. Looking forward to the Prince doc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b017gssb/Janet_Jackson_Taking_Control/

http://tinyurl.com/mizzjackass

Thanks!

lowkey said:

Ellie said:

I watched it last night.

I thought the production of the doc wasn't that great. I mean the voiceover woman was really dull and monotonous, and they kept showing the same 30 seconds of video clips more than once, rather than just carrying on with other clips. I didn't get why they had to do that at all.

I always dislike the way anyone talking about Janet saying she had to "save" Michael by "helping" him on 'Scream' - that theory only makes sense to Americans as MJ was and always had been much bigger than her at all times outside the US. It was also only 3 1/2 years between Dangerous and HIStory, not 5.

Michael aside as I always split hairs when anyone mentions him in a documentary, I enjoyed how comprehensive it was for her albums up to All For You... impressed that they got Janet for a sit-down interview too - imagine if they got Prince for next week! I doubt it

i didnt hear anybody say she 'saved' him but its a fact he needed her at that time more then she's ever needed him in her career, he knew it and thats why he asked her to do it. i know how big he was around the world at that time but nobody is gonna make me believe mj wouldnt give anything to be on top in america again.the love and respect in this country didnt really return until he died, which is sad.

Thats not what Ellie was implying.

The poster was implying that MJ has always been bigger than Janet which is true regardless of his low points.. he has always been a bigger star than Janet which is really a understatement a much BIGGER star . He didnt have to work with Janet. He wanted to work with his sister as a double team against the media and for support so its not like he NEEDED her. Janet working with Michael exactly helped HER believe it or not. If anything, he needed her emotionally as a sister not for popularity.

mjscarousal said:

SEANMAN said:

You can definately hear the Jimmy/Terry vibe in songs like "Take Care" and "Enjoy", two of the standout tracks on 20 YO.

Take Care was the best song on 20YO besides that everything else was disposable... Enjoy was okay... To be honest, if Jimmy and Terry had not have said they were apart of DJ, 20Y0 Disciplin I would have NEVER thought they participated.. her music for those albums including All 4 U was not good at all

The fact that she didnt even want to write at all on DJ speaks volumes

Thats my only beef with Janet.. its sad how as socially conscience of a artist she was her material turned so generic and she stopped taking risks... Hopefully with the new album she is inspired and puts out more creative material.

[Edited 11/20/11 15:57pm]

I loved A4U. Not only is the title song catchy as hell, but there are lots of good tracks on there (China Love, You Ain't Right, Trust A Try, Better Days, Someone to Call My Lover). DJ has always been hideously underrated. It's one of her best albums of the 2000s.

SEANMAN said:

mjscarousal said:

Take Care was the best song on 20YO besides that everything else was disposable... Enjoy was okay... To be honest, if Jimmy and Terry had not have said they were apart of DJ, 20Y0 Disciplin I would have NEVER thought they participated.. her music for those albums including All 4 U was not good at all

The fact that she didnt even want to write at all on DJ speaks volumes

Thats my only beef with Janet.. its sad how as socially conscience of a artist she was her material turned so generic and she stopped taking risks... Hopefully with the new album she is inspired and puts out more creative material.

[Edited 11/20/11 15:57pm]

I loved A4U. Not only is the title song catchy as hell, but there are lots of good tracks on there (China Love, You Ain't Right, Trust A Try, Better Days, Someone to Call My Lover). DJ has always been hideously underrated. It's one of her best albums of the 2000s.

I agree! I often think Janet and Virgin both played roles in why both those albums didn't do as well as it should've especially Damita Jo. I felt she didn't really capitalize on the "controversy" and Virgin didn't wanna touch it either apparently. Hot ass mess.

Timmy84 said:

SEANMAN said:

I loved A4U. Not only is the title song catchy as hell, but there are lots of good tracks on there (China Love, You Ain't Right, Trust A Try, Better Days, Someone to Call My Lover). DJ has always been hideously underrated. It's one of her best albums of the 2000s.

I agree! I often think Janet and Virgin both played roles in why both those albums didn't do as well as it should've especially Damita Jo. I felt she didn't really capitalize on the "controversy" and Virgin didn't wanna touch it either apparently. Hot ass mess.

Right. Instead of bringing Timberlake onstage at the end, she should've debuted All Nite, and then followed it up as the lead-off single from DJ.

SEANMAN said:

Timmy84 said:

I agree! I often think Janet and Virgin both played roles in why both those albums didn't do as well as it should've especially Damita Jo. I felt she didn't really capitalize on the "controversy" and Virgin didn't wanna touch it either apparently. Hot ass mess.

Right. Instead of bringing Timberlake onstage at the end, she should've debuted All Nite, and then followed it up as the lead-off single from DJ.

See? That was her FIRST mistake. Her second (or probably that was Virgin's), release a single that wasn't supposed to come out first ("Just a Little While"). Her THIRD was releasing "I Want You", which while a great song was a bad choice to put out at the time it was put out. Everything about the U.S. promo was fucked up.

SEANMAN said:

mjscarousal said:

Take Care was the best song on 20YO besides that everything else was disposable... Enjoy was okay... To be honest, if Jimmy and Terry had not have said they were apart of DJ, 20Y0 Disciplin I would have NEVER thought they participated.. her music for those albums including All 4 U was not good at all

The fact that she didnt even want to write at all on DJ speaks volumes

Thats my only beef with Janet.. its sad how as socially conscience of a artist she was her material turned so generic and she stopped taking risks... Hopefully with the new album she is inspired and puts out more creative material.

[Edited 11/20/11 15:57pm]

I loved A4U. Not only is the title song catchy as hell, but there are lots of good tracks on there (China Love, You Ain't Right, Trust A Try, Better Days, Someone to Call My Lover). DJ has always been hideously underrated. It's one of her best albums of the 2000s.

Now that you mention it, there are a few gems on All4U.. I also liked When We OOO.. Its been a while since Ive listened to the album. I just remember it being a bit of a downer compared to VR.. but standing by itself it is alot better than the other 00's albums and its personal.

DJ was underrated commercially but it just seemed something personal was missing from it which was finally revealed through Jimmy admiting Janet didnt want to write on the album. Some songs are nice but nothing majorly sticks out. It seemed something personal was missing from every album that followed because it to me it seemed Janet cared more about radio airplay than being creative. Now I LOVE Janet but clearly with those albums the themes were not about pushing her artistry or about being creative and it showed in her music which is why I personally dont care for much of her material post All4U works aside from a few tracks like Take Care, Make Me Move, etc. I just find it disappointing because most of her best works/legacy is mostly pushing the envelop or being creative and I knew she could be doing better than what she was doing as far as the kind of music she was making.

But just in general Janet is very underrated overall catalogue wise, impact wise as well as influence. I look forward to her new album

It definitely seems like she was trying to chase radio. Why else would she have Kanye on her album?

Hey, don't touch Kanye, he's great, though I can't say the same for his horrible rap on Damita Jo

It was well done, but Michael wanted to work with Janet anyways since the Rhythm Nation era and called her up while she was promoting the album, suggesting a duet. She felt she had more ways to go before doing that in terms of getting out of his shadow, so when he asked her a second time, they did it. The timing and subject matter was perfect. I don't think this was about needing each other though I remember media saying MJ is using family like Janet and LMP to "save his career" in 95, they simply wanted to make great music, and Janet was clearly upset about what Latoya was doing and what the media was doing to Michael at the time and defending him everywhere, so it came out in the music.

And I forgot where I heard this, but Jimmy, Terry & Janet are the ones who wrote the music and some of the lyrics , and they wrote some other songs too and sent it back to Michael to choose from. It might have been in a Bruce Swedien article.

alphastreet said:

Hey, don't touch Kanye, he's great, though I can't say the same for his horrible rap on Damita Jo

It was well done, but Michael wanted to work with Janet anyways since the Rhythm Nation era and called her up while she was promoting the album, suggesting a duet. She felt she had more ways to go before doing that in terms of getting out of his shadow, so when he asked her a second time, they did it. The timing and subject matter was perfect. I don't think this was about needing each other though I remember media saying MJ is using family like Janet and LMP to "save his career" in 95, they simply wanted to make great music, and Janet was clearly upset about what Latoya was doing and what the media was doing to Michael at the time and defending him everywhere, so it came out in the music.

And I forgot where I heard this, but Jimmy, Terry & Janet are the ones who wrote the music and some of the lyrics , and they wrote some other songs too and sent it back to Michael to choose from. It might have been in a Bruce Swedien article.

They worked collectively. Michael had alot to do with the writing. There are other aspects that people can get credit for they dont necessarily have to contribute to the lyrics but that whole production was a team effort with Michael of course in the drivers seat since it was his song and vision.

mjscarousal said:

lowkey said:

i didnt hear anybody say she 'saved' him but its a fact he needed her at that time more then she's ever needed him in her career, he knew it and thats why he asked her to do it. i know how big he was around the world at that time but nobody is gonna make me believe mj wouldnt give anything to be on top in america again.the love and respect in this country didnt really return until he died, which is sad.

Thats not what Ellie was implying.

The poster was implying that MJ has always been bigger than Janet which is true regardless of his low points.. he has always been a bigger star than Janet which is really a understatement a much BIGGER star . He didnt have to work with Janet. He wanted to work with his sister as a double team against the media and for support so its not like he NEEDED her. Janet working with Michael exactly helped HER believe it or not. If anything, he needed her emotionally as a sister not for popularity.

him being bigger then her wasnt the issue, his appeal at that time was at a all time low while hers was super high. he didnt wanna work with her just because he thought it would be cool to work with his sister, of course he had a motive and that collaboration was 100% for him not her. explain how working with him helped her? scream wasnt her biggest hit, its not that much of a favorite for her fans, she never performed the song in concert until mj died, she didnt put it on her album , what did it really do for janet's career?

She always liked it and would talk about it if asked in the 00's and if another duet would happen

But she also told VIBE in the 90's that it was more business than she thought or something to that effect.

lowkey said:

mjscarousal said:

Thats not what Ellie was implying.

The poster was implying that MJ has always been bigger than Janet which is true regardless of his low points.. he has always been a bigger star than Janet which is really a understatement a much BIGGER star . He didnt have to work with Janet. He wanted to work with his sister as a double team against the media and for support so its not like he NEEDED her. Janet working with Michael exactly helped HER believe it or not. If anything, he needed her emotionally as a sister not for popularity.

him being bigger then her wasnt the issue, his appeal at that time was at a all time low while hers was super high. he didnt wanna work with her just because he thought it would be cool to work with his sister, of course he had a motive and that collaboration was 100% for him not her. explain how working with him helped her? scream wasnt her biggest hit, its not that much of a favorite for her fans, she never performed the song in concert until mj died, she didnt put it on her album , what did it really do for janet's career?

That was just what I was implying because I thought you meant it the other way around.

Even before 93 happened Michael always had controversy more than Janet..and during the 90s was a high time for Michael yes his popularity started to dwindle but when History came out he still was massive I am not sure what point you are making. It would benefit Janet because Michael was/is the bigger star which would give her more exposure.. how is Janet helping Michael as far as appeal when Michael was bigger? lol Janet was big to but not like Michael no matter how much controversy he had.

I much prefer Damita Jo to All For You. Persona;lly I thought it was a huge step up and a far more coherent album. 20 Y.O was the real stinker for me.

lowkey said:

him being bigger then her wasnt the issue, his appeal at that time was at a all time low while hers was super high. he didnt wanna work with her just because he thought it would be cool to work with his sister, of course he had a motive and that collaboration was 100% for him not her. explain how working with him helped her? scream wasnt her biggest hit, its not that much of a favorite for her fans, she never performed the song in concert until mj died, she didnt put it on her album , what did it really do for janet's career?

I think it helped in showing family solidarity, that's all. Besides, worldwide the other singles from HIStory did much better than Scream in the end.

It's a great track regardless and probably helped them both as it helped keep Janet in the public eye in her break between albums.

My 2 cents to the to the whole scream issue:

Michael Jackson would always be the biggest star on the planet - but at the time of scream Janet was more in vogue and he desperately needed credibility.

He suffered a huge backlash with the 1993 allegations and his appeal to the broader audience was dwindling - sure he always had his hardcore fans who would stick by him no matter what. But he needed Janet like he needed R Kelly to show he still had relevance in popular culture and music at the time.

To say Janet needed him after her biggest selling album and a huge world tour is just not true.

I doubt he needed R Kelly. He wasn't that huge of a star at the time (seriously I think I was only vagueley aware of Your Body's Callin' and She's Got That Vibe was the only notable hit). In fact people knowing he wrote YANA was a worldwide boost for his profile.

Anyway back to Janet. I just wish they had shown more video footage. Something from the 'janet' tour could have at least sufficed to make it better.

Before the allegations, people knew MJ was doing his thing and still popular. Though Janet was a popular name during the janet. era I didn't know anything about her, just heard her name in passing in 94 and 95 or something like that but didn't know material yet until Scream and then getting into more work since, unless I heard it and didn't realize.

I don't think popular is the right word choice, his popularity never faded though his reputation may have.

[Edited 11/21/11 1:02am]

Ellie said:

I doubt he needed R Kelly. He wasn't that huge of a star at the time (seriously I think I was only vagueley aware of Your Body's Callin' and She's Got That Vibe was the only notable hit). In fact people knowing he wrote YANA was a worldwide boost for his profile.

Anyway back to Janet. I just wish they had shown more video footage. Something from the 'janet' tour could have at least sufficed to make it better.

"12 Play" was HUGE - the point i'm trying to make is that MJ was losing his black American fanbase who he had during OTW and Thriller.

He needed hot producers who had street credibility and commercial success like Teddy Riley to connect with them rather than going back to stale 40+ Quincy who was losing relevancy at the time.

Lets forget for a second about how much of a huge star he was - he wanted to be cool again - He thought these people could help him - so he did need Janet, R Kelly and Biggie - not because they were bigger stars but because they at the time connected so much more with the streets and public in general.

[Edited 11/21/11 4:06am]

Want to add Stevie Wonder to your "list?"

Once again, US only, and once again MJ's overseas sales eclipsed the US sales by a huge ratio.

I agree that the documentary showed (a bit) that she is highly underrated. Highly.

alphastreet said:

Want to add Stevie Wonder to your "list?"

No need to be a smart ass.

That song helped neither of them.

Ellie said:

Once again, US only, and once again MJ's overseas sales eclipsed the US sales by a huge ratio.

Sales does no equal street credibility in any country.

I remember urban radio were playing Janet and Kelly in the early 90's much more than MJ in the UK.

How dare you hate on I Can't Help It?

Who's to say mj wouldn't have recruited them with or without scandals? Janet worked with Heavy D and R.Kelly first. He also got JJ & TL, but I highly doubt Is It Scary was designed for urban radio

[Edited 11/21/11 5:09am]

Ellie said:

I much prefer Damita Jo to All For You. Persona;lly I thought it was a huge step up and a far more coherent album. 20 Y.O was the real stinker for me.

I was embarrassed by 20 Y.O myself. Last I checked Janet was a POP legend, not urban. I just hope her next album don't continue on that path. She was foolish to take Dupri's advice and go "urban". It further killed her career momentum than Nipplegate ever did.

Ellie said:

I doubt he needed R Kelly. He wasn't that huge of a star at the time (seriously I think I was only vagueley aware of Your Body's Callin' and She's Got That Vibe was the only notable hit). In fact people knowing he wrote YANA was a worldwide boost for his profile.

Anyway back to Janet. I just wish they had shown more video footage. Something from the 'janet' tour could have at least sufficed to make it better.

Both RN and janet. tours were neglected from its broadcast. I was kinda mad about that. They also could've shown more footage from the "Control" period as well. There were things about it that needed a change lol

Timmy84 said:

Ellie said:

I doubt he needed R Kelly. He wasn't that huge of a star at the time (seriously I think I was only vagueley aware of Your Body's Callin' and She's Got That Vibe was the only notable hit). In fact people knowing he wrote YANA was a worldwide boost for his profile.

Anyway back to Janet. I just wish they had shown more video footage. Something from the 'janet' tour could have at least sufficed to make it better.

Both RN and janet. tours were neglected from its broadcast. I was kinda mad about that. They also could've shown more footage from the "Control" period as well. There were things about it that needed a change lol

Oh, that thing could've been more than an hour, hell, more than two hours. They skipped most of her acting career, her book, a couple of eras, and the eras they did touch on could've been delved into a lot deeper. All in all, it was good for what it was, but they just scratched the surface. I agree that she had a brain fart in letting JD co-executive produce 20 YO. I remember, before that album even came out, there was a leaked playlist with all different songs, some of which touched on the SB incident. I believe it was called "Janet's Lesson Plan" or something like that, and I don't think JD had any involvement in it. I guess they decided to scrap that idea and went with the songs that we all know.