I wish Patti would do more stuff like this..."You changed...you changed on me"

Don't we all? The problem is that the songwriters and producers took way too long to put together an album like I'm In Love Again, and she was falling well behind the R&B legends of her era who had plenty of pop fans. By the time this album went gold and spawned a #1 R&B hit ("If Only You Knew", one of 3 top-10 hits for her during this period), it was too little and too late, and she went to MCA to look for producers who would give her a far more daring sound, like what she and the rest of LaBelle had in the mid-1970s, which was a roadmap to bigger hits and legendary status. I still believe that, had she stayed with CBS (now owned by Sony) and the producers she had from 1977 to 1983, she might have been all-but-forgotten by 1987. Burnin' (1991), my favorite (and one of 6 gold solo albums), sealed he deal for her.

Now, if the airport incident wasn't enough for her to deal with, someone in New York City is suing her, claiming she threw a plastic water bottle in 2010, and it hit a baby. Unlike the incident in Houston, this one clearly smells like a rat, trying to cash in on that situation at the airport this past summer. If the NYC water-bottle incident happened in 2010, why didn't the accuser sue her in 2010?

Wasn't "I'm In Love Again" just a bunch of vault material that was released after she left the label? Funny because, for me, it's her best album.

^ That was the 1985 Patti album.

I don't know why she abruptly left Philly International, you think being in a label familiar to her surroundings that she would easily fit in. Odd thing is Patti is often identified as a "Philly International" artist by some press figures but she only had two hits with the company - "If Only You Knew" and "Love, Need & Want You".

She actually left PIR the same year "If Only You Knew" and "Love, Need & Want You" became hits, which further complicated matters, I never got it.

This one was written by the team of Cecil and Linda Womack and I'm of the opinion that of all the solo albums she released, this stood out as her best. I think her second best album was her debut. Everything else is either hit-or-miss or a complete miss.

kitbradley said:

Wasn't "I'm In Love Again" just a bunch of vault material that was released after she left the label? Funny because, for me, it's her best album.

Those songs were recorded from 1979-81 and left in the vaults.Things were a mess at Philadelphia International Records in the early 80s.Artists like The O'Jays,the Jones Girls,and Patti had "new" albums in stores,consisting of leftover vault material.I'm In Love Again was basically a collection of old vault songs.But it's a good album!

CookyMonzta said:

Don't we all? The problem is that the songwriters and producers took way too long to put together an album like I'm In Love Again, and she was falling well behind the R&B legends of her era who had plenty of pop fans. By the time this album went gold and spawned a #1 R&B hit ("If Only You Knew", one of 3 top-10 hits for her during this period), it was too little and too late, and she went to MCA to look for producers who would give her a far more daring sound, like what she and the rest of LaBelle had in the mid-1970s, which was a roadmap to bigger hits and legendary status. I still believe that, had she stayed with CBS (now owned by Sony) and the producers she had from 1977 to 1983, she might have been all-but-forgotten by 1987. Burnin' (1991), my favorite (and one of 6 gold solo albums), sealed he deal for her.

Now, if the airport incident wasn't enough for her to deal with, someone in New York City is suing her, claiming she threw a plastic water bottle in 2010, and it hit a baby. Unlike the incident in Houston, this one clearly smells like a rat, trying to cash in on that situation at the airport this past summer. If the NYC water-bottle incident happened in 2010, why didn't the accuser sue her in 2010?

Her career suffered the case of the "dontknowhowtoproduceyouitis". I don't think except for Patti '77 and I'm in Love Again that her producers didn't know what to do with her. There's a lot of issues concerning her music career and whether or not the reason she suffered was either she refused to compromise or tried to hard to do just that - compromise.

SoulAlive said:

kitbradley said:

Wasn't "I'm In Love Again" just a bunch of vault material that was released after she left the label? Funny because, for me, it's her best album.

Those songs were recorded from 1979-81 and left in the vaults.Things were a mess at Philadelphia International Records in the early 80s.Artists like The O'Jays,the Jones Girls,and Patti had "new" albums in stores,consisting of leftover vault material.I'm In Love Again was basically a collection of old vault songs.But it's a good album!

I thought it was 1981-1982. I wonder what went on during the sessions. If "If Only You Knew" was recorded in 1979 for example, wouldn't that have been left off any Epic release if the timeline is accurate. I think only one or two tracks were from 1983 sessions ("Lover Man" and "Never Never Give Up").

kitbradley said:

Wasn't "I'm In Love Again" just a bunch of vault material that was released after she left the label? Funny because, for me, it's her best album.

It is one of her best!! But a lot of her 70s and early 80s solo albums were more soulful than the stuff she did with MCA.

I realized when Winner In You hit- that was the blueprint for her future albums. It feels like Patti never really had a direction when it came to her music.

Her albums are so hit and miss. I like Burnin' the whole way through and I like Timeless Journey.. but I can't stand When A Woman Loves. Who told her to do a whole album of Diane Warren songs? And I don't know what Jimmy and Terry were doing production wise with that one. I like maybe 3 songs on that.

musicman said:

kitbradley said:

Wasn't "I'm In Love Again" just a bunch of vault material that was released after she left the label? Funny because, for me, it's her best album.

It is one of her best!! But a lot of her 70s and early 80s solo albums were more soulful than the stuff she did with MCA.

I realized when Winner In You hit- that was the blueprint for her future albums. It feels like Patti never really had a direction when it came to her music.

Her albums are so hit and miss. I like Burnin' the whole way through and I like Timeless Journey.. but I can't stand When A Woman Loves. Who told her to do a whole album of Diane Warren songs? And I don't know what Jimmy and Terry were doing production wise with that one. I like maybe 3 songs on that.

She really didn't. I think the only album where she sounded like she was in some form of control was the first one. Afterwards, it was hit or miss but the albums between 1978 and 1983 were ten times better than the ones released afterwards, that's for sure.

And I'm sure it didn't help matters that the Philly label was nortorious for not promoting there female artists. They did not promote Patti's work during her time there. Same thing with the Jones Girls and Jean Carn. They made the best albums of their careers at that label but, while their male counterparts like The O'Jays and Teddy Pendergrass were given lots of support and promo by the label, Patti, Jean and The Jones Girls were not really granted the same attention.

musicman said:

I realized when Winner In You hit- that was the blueprint for her future albums. It feels like Patti never really had a direction when it came to her music.

Most R&B artists, especially if they were female, had to change their sound in the 80s if they wanted their music crossed over to a wider audience. I remember how a lof of black artists were complaining about being pressured by their labels to sound more Pop/Rock and less Urban/R&B. That was the thing back in the 80's. Not so much now.

kitbradley said:

And I'm sure it didn't help matters that the Philly label was nortorious for not promoting there female artists. They did not promote Patti's work during her time there. Same thing with the Jones Girls and Jean Carn. They made the best albums of their careers at that label but, while their male counterparts like The O'Jays and Teddy Pendergrass were given lots of support and promo by the label, Patti, Jean and The Jones Girls were not really granted the same attention.

Interesting when you think about it. PIR didn't put no support behind The Spirit's in It and I think "If Only You Knew" AND "Love, Need and Want" were recorded simply for that album but was left off. I'm In Love Again oddly enough was the first PIR album since Teddy's fifth album Time for Love or whatever the name, to be certified gold but they left off "Wind Beneath My Wings" (or "Hero") from that one and other than "If Only You Knew", hardly promoted it either. So that's when Patti got a little bitter when she saw Tina getting success, Diana still getting success, Aretha, Dionne, and felt like PIR/CBS was not promoting her properly. Hence why she quickly accepted the deal with MCA.

kitbradley said:

musicman said:

Most R&B artists, especially if they were female, had to change their sound in the 80s if they wanted their music crossed over to a wider audience. I remember how a lof of black artists were complaining about being pressured by their labels to sound more Pop/Rock and less Urban/R&B. That was the thing back in the 80's. Not so much now.

Which is why I was glad that Phyllis stood her ground. She knew how the business ran even if it meant she wouldn't be a mainstream artist.

I think kitbradley summation explains why LaBelle career wasn't as successful as it should've been. Also, nobody knew what do with Patti really and that's unfortunate. I've kinda made up my mind not to address this thing about Black artist/singers/musicians and "mainstream".

Timmy84 said:

kitbradley said:

Most R&B artists, especially if they were female, had to change their sound in the 80s if they wanted their music crossed over to a wider audience. I remember how a lof of black artists were complaining about being pressured by their labels to sound more Pop/Rock and less Urban/R&B. That was the thing back in the 80's. Not so much now.

Which is why I was glad that Phyllis stood her ground. She knew how the business ran even if it meant she wouldn't be a mainstream artist.

I was just thinking about Phyllis and how Philly Records treated her. Although she recorded her finest and most successful albums at the label, it took them 5 years to release a second album on her after "Living All Alone". I believe I remember reading in her biography that, prior to 1991's "Prime Of My Life", she was complaining about how she had an album all set and ready to go but Gamble & Huff were dragging their feet about releasing it. But, I do believe she ended up being the label's most successful female artist (although "Prime Of My Life" was released on the Zoo imprint so I don't know if that would count?).

kitbradley said:

Timmy84 said:

Which is why I was glad that Phyllis stood her ground. She knew how the business ran even if it meant she wouldn't be a mainstream artist.

I was just thinking about Phyllis and how Philly Records treated her. Although she recorded her finest and most successful albums at the label, it took them 5 years to release a second album on her after "Living All Alone". I believe I remember reading in her biography that, prior to 1991's "Prime Of My Life", she was complaining about how she had an album all set and ready to go but Gamble & Huff were dragging their feet about releasing it. But, I do believe she ended up being the label's most successful female artist (although "Prime Of My Life" was released on the Zoo imprint so I don't know if that would count?).

Since PIR was still operating, I would say it did. And yeah Phyllis definitely was PIR's best selling female artist. I actually think in terms of how they treated female artists, Phyllis was treated far better than Patti and the rest. Maybe that was because there was something about Phyllis that Gamble & Huff had dug and wanted to bring that back out in her. You could hear her enthusiasm on Living All Alone and Prime of My Life even than you could on her Arista recordings. I think with Patti, NO ONE really knew how to market her so she always had the struggle of how she was to be promoted. Even when you think about her R&B success, it was just as marginal as her pop success.

And for the record, they could've definitely promoted "Love Bankrupt". Why they didn't is a mystery.

Timmy84 said:

musicman said:

It is one of her best!! But a lot of her 70s and early 80s solo albums were more soulful than the stuff she did with MCA.

I realized when Winner In You hit- that was the blueprint for her future albums. It feels like Patti never really had a direction when it came to her music.

Her albums are so hit and miss. I like Burnin' the whole way through and I like Timeless Journey.. but I can't stand When A Woman Loves. Who told her to do a whole album of Diane Warren songs? And I don't know what Jimmy and Terry were doing production wise with that one. I like maybe 3 songs on that.

She really didn't. I think the only album where she sounded like she was in some form of control was the first one. Afterwards, it was hit or miss but the albums between 1978 and 1983 were ten times better than the ones released afterwards, that's for sure.

THAT'S THE TRUTH!! I was so surprised when I bought those albums. I was thinking- why did she stop doingmusic like this... bt I know that cross over appreal was calling her.

kitbradley said:

And I'm sure it didn't help matters that the Philly label was nortorious for not promoting there female artists. They did not promote Patti's work during her time there. Same thing with the Jones Girls and Jean Carn. They made the best albums of their careers at that label but, while their male counterparts like The O'Jays and Teddy Pendergrass were given lots of support and promo by the label, Patti, Jean and The Jones Girls were not really granted the same attention.

I only have the Jones Girls greatest hits, but I finally got a new cd copy of Jean's Happy To Be With You- a soul classic!

kitbradley said:

musicman said:

Most R&B artists, especially if they were female, had to change their sound in the 80s if they wanted their music crossed over to a wider audience. I remember how a lof of black artists were complaining about being pressured by their labels to sound more Pop/Rock and less Urban/R&B. That was the thing back in the 80's. Not so much now.

This is true. She wanted that diva cross-over success. The older she gets, you can tell she's a bit resentful that she didn't have the same status of a Diana or Whitney.

But, I mean, hearing stories about so many songs she turned down that became hits for others- made think that Patti needs to look at her own decision making. We all love her-but she doesn't seem to trust her own insticts as an artist.

I know one thing- I've seen her in concert twice, and I can't take another one of her diabetic rants.. I need her to eat before she hits the stage.

musicman said:

kitbradley said:

Most R&B artists, especially if they were female, had to change their sound in the 80s if they wanted their music crossed over to a wider audience. I remember how a lof of black artists were complaining about being pressured by their labels to sound more Pop/Rock and less Urban/R&B. That was the thing back in the 80's. Not so much now.

This is true. She wanted that diva cross-over success. The older she gets, you can tell she's a bit resentful that she didn't have the same status of a Diana or Whitney.

But, I mean, hearing stories about so many songs she turned down that became hits for others- made think that Patti needs to look at her own decision making. We all love her-but she doesn't seem to trust her own insticts as an artist.

I know one thing- I've seen her in concert twice, and I can't take another one of her diabetic rants.. I need her to eat before she hits the stage.

It's clear the woman has got major problems really. Definitely feels jealous that Diana and Whitney (especially Diana since they're both the same age) got to be pop superstars and that she never became one in that sense. Even in R&B circles, she's behind Aretha, Gladys Knight and Chaka Khan. So in both worlds, she definitely didn't "fit in" and I agree that that may have to do with her OWN decision making. Hell she dropped out of "The Color Purple" because there was a lesbian scene and nudity saying she was "above" all that. Then got upset when Margaret Avery got the Oscar nod for the role Patti had initially been picked for.

Timmy84 said:

musicman said:

This is true. She wanted that diva cross-over success. The older she gets, you can tell she's a bit resentful that she didn't have the same status of a Diana or Whitney.

But, I mean, hearing stories about so many songs she turned down that became hits for others- made think that Patti needs to look at her own decision making. We all love her-but she doesn't seem to trust her own insticts as an artist.

I know one thing- I've seen her in concert twice, and I can't take another one of her diabetic rants.. I need her to eat before she hits the stage.

It's clear the woman has got major problems really. Definitely feels jealous that Diana and Whitney (especially Diana since they're both the same age) got to be pop superstars and that she never became one in that sense. Even in R&B circles, she's behind Aretha, Gladys Knight and Chaka Khan. So in both worlds, she definitely didn't "fit in" and I agree that that may have to do with her OWN decision making. Hell she dropped out of "The Color Purple" because there was a lesbian scene and nudity saying she was "above" all that. Then got upset when Margaret Avery got the Oscar nod for the role Patti had initially been picked for.

The thing that has kept Patti going strong for so many years is her stellar reputation as a live performer. Chaka may have charted more songs and albums than Patti but people do not turn out in in droves for Chaka's shows they way they do for Patti. When Patti is in town, you know it because you hear people saying, "I'm going to see Patti tonight." I have NEVER heard anyone I know say that they were going to see Chaka. I've seen Chaka live at least a half dozen times and I've only seen Patti once. Every time I've personally seen Chaka, she gave 100%. But, I can't tell you the countless stories I've heard over the years about Chaka coming out on stage and giving the audience a sloppy show. I love her more than any other singer that has ever existed on this earth but, as a live performer, Chaka has always been very unreliable. With Patti, however, people know that they will, more than likely, get a great show. It is extremely rare that I've heard anyone say they left one of Patti's shows disappointed. It doesn't really matter how many chart hits you've had in the past. You still have to be able to "bring it" on stage. And that's why Patti still remains so well-loved and respected in the black community.

kitbradley said:

Timmy84 said:

It's clear the woman has got major problems really. Definitely feels jealous that Diana and Whitney (especially Diana since they're both the same age) got to be pop superstars and that she never became one in that sense. Even in R&B circles, she's behind Aretha, Gladys Knight and Chaka Khan. So in both worlds, she definitely didn't "fit in" and I agree that that may have to do with her OWN decision making. Hell she dropped out of "The Color Purple" because there was a lesbian scene and nudity saying she was "above" all that. Then got upset when Margaret Avery got the Oscar nod for the role Patti had initially been picked for.

The thing that has kept Patti going strong for so many years is her stellar reputation as a live performer. Chaka may have charted more songs and albums than Patti but people do not turn out in in droves for Chaka's shows they way they do for Patti. When Patti is in town, you know it because you hear people saying, "I'm going to see Patti tonight." I have NEVER heard anyone I know say that they were going to see Chaka. I've seen Chaka live at least a half dozen times and I've only seen Patti once. Every time I've personally seen Chaka, she gave 100%. But, I can't tell you the countless stories I've heard over the years about Chaka coming out on stage and giving the audience a sloppy show. I love her more than any other singer that has ever existed on this earth but, as a live performer, Chaka has always been very unreliable. With Patti, however, people know that they will, more than likely, get a great show. It is extremely rare that I've heard anyone say they left one of Patti's shows disappointed. It doesn't really matter how many chart hits you've had in the past. You still have to be able to "bring it" on stage. And that's why Patti still remains so well-loved and respected in the black community.

It's funny. She became a legend through her performances but her music doesn't. One of the strangest, yet fascinating, music stories in history. She kinda did what KISS did: become popular off live performances.

Timmy84 said:

kitbradley said:

The thing that has kept Patti going strong for so many years is her stellar reputation as a live performer. Chaka may have charted more songs and albums than Patti but people do not turn out in in droves for Chaka's shows they way they do for Patti. When Patti is in town, you know it because you hear people saying, "I'm going to see Patti tonight." I have NEVER heard anyone I know say that they were going to see Chaka. I've seen Chaka live at least a half dozen times and I've only seen Patti once. Every time I've personally seen Chaka, she gave 100%. But, I can't tell you the countless stories I've heard over the years about Chaka coming out on stage and giving the audience a sloppy show. I love her more than any other singer that has ever existed on this earth but, as a live performer, Chaka has always been very unreliable. With Patti, however, people know that they will, more than likely, get a great show. It is extremely rare that I've heard anyone say they left one of Patti's shows disappointed. It doesn't really matter how many chart hits you've had in the past. You still have to be able to "bring it" on stage. And that's why Patti still remains so well-loved and respected in the black community.

It's funny. She became a legend through her performances but her music doesn't. One of the strangest, yet fascinating, music stories in history. She kinda did what KISS did: become popular off live performances.

And it's extremely important to have that rep when the Billboard hits stop coming. Touring is how these veteren artists make a majority of their money. Patti, Diana, Gladys and Tina will always be able to sell large numbers of tickets to their shows because of their reps as live performers. I can't say the same for Chaka. I live in Michigan and about three years ago, she was here and this guy told me he went and he was shocked because only a few dozen people were at the show. Chaka's shows have had rotten promo within the last few years, too. She's been here a couple of times over the last few years and I didn't even know it until a few days later. When Patti is in town, however, it's all over the radio, TV and newspapers.

kitbradley said:

Timmy84 said:

It's funny. She became a legend through her performances but her music doesn't. One of the strangest, yet fascinating, music stories in history. She kinda did what KISS did: become popular off live performances.

And it's extremely important to have that rep when the Billboard hits stop coming. Touring is how these veteren artists make a majority of their money. Patti, Diana, Gladys and Tina will always be able to sell large numbers of tickets to their shows because of their reps as live performers. I can't say the same for Chaka. I live in Michigan and about three years ago, she was here and this guy told me he went and he was shocked because only a few dozen people were at the show. Chaka's shows have had rotten promo within the last few years, too. She's been here a couple of times over the last few years and I didn't even know it until a few days later. When Patti is in town, however, it's all over the radio, TV and newspapers.

That's fucking sad @ Chaka.

Timmy84 said:

SoulAlive said:

Those songs were recorded from 1979-81 and left in the vaults.Things were a mess at Philadelphia International Records in the early 80s.Artists like The O'Jays,the Jones Girls,and Patti had "new" albums in stores,consisting of leftover vault material.I'm In Love Again was basically a collection of old vault songs.But it's a good album!

I thought it was 1981-1982. I wonder what went on during the sessions. If "If Only You Knew" was recorded in 1979 for example, wouldn't that have been left off any Epic release if the timeline is accurate. I think only one or two tracks were from 1983 sessions ("Lover Man" and "Never Never Give Up").

I heard that some of these songs were recorded in 1979.It wasn't until 1983 that the songs were finally taken out of the vault and released on the album.It was the same way with the O'Jays.Two of their early-80s albums ('The Year 2000' and 'My Favorite Person') consist of previously recorded material that was in the vaults.This was done to cut down on studio expenses.The label was having financial problems.

SoulAlive said:

Timmy84 said:

I thought it was 1981-1982. I wonder what went on during the sessions. If "If Only You Knew" was recorded in 1979 for example, wouldn't that have been left off any Epic release if the timeline is accurate. I think only one or two tracks were from 1983 sessions ("Lover Man" and "Never Never Give Up").

I heard that some of these songs were recorded in 1979.It wasn't until 1983 that the songs were finally taken out of the vault and released on the album.It was the same way with the O'Jays.Two of their early-80s albums ('The Year 2000' and 'My Favorite Person') consist of previously recorded material that was in the vaults.This was done to cut down on studio expenses.The label was having financial problems.

The timeline is screwy... I know CBS had PIR as part of its label merger in the day so when her contract with Epic ran out, they basically switched her over, like Phyllis was switched over to Arista after Buddah Records was sold.