BlaqueKnight said:

So now, black folk are getting too much credit?

What's next? The U.S. wasn't really built on the backs of slaves?

jazz, blues, gospel, R&B, rock, house, reggae, disco, hip-hop, soul, and most contemporary forms of American music were invented by BLACK FOLK. That is FACT, and not at liberty for debate. Country was a spin off of blues; techno was a spin off of house and electro. While there were always a few white people participating in any and all given genres, of those specifically named, their origins started in the black community. When rock and roll was "race music", most whites wanted no part of it. Once it became "hip", the effort to write blacks out of it began, as had been done with jazz.

Influence is another topic altogether and influence is very wide and diverse.

I get sick of history revisionists.

Political correctness does not equal truth.

I don't think it has anything to do with that

Truthfully the US wasn't only built on the backs of African slaves, because Native-American backs were used too and even poor european indentured servants (a lot of times the Irish) even certain aspects had Asian (Korean?) labor

Also African slaves in America mostly were in use for the 'confederate' states, not all states(we weren't United yet)

It's just about being realistic and factual. Other than that it looks like black folks have some serious self esteem issues.

Black is a very US driven cultural identity that at times other cultures/countries use for certain ethnic groups of African Indian and even Australian peoples.

In all respect Black music is not a self contained music style. Meaning (other here have stated) it's music that is very much a combination of things from other ethnic groups. I think the beat is probably the only thing that is very much 'African' originated. The on the beat bass clap snap etc

Also as much as I love 'black' music, and culture, and respect it.

I also believe in letting people be individuals 1st, so just because someone we

identify as black is making music doesn't make it 'black' music

Is Tracey Chapman doing 'black' music (folk/country/bluegrass)?

Black American culture is a melting pot, it's not like saying Ghanian culture or Nigerian culture

Most black americans think 'Jumping the Broom' is a black/slave cultural expression.

But don't realize that 'jumping the broom' originated in England and peasants could not legally get married so they 'jumped the broom' in the same fashion African slaves did in america.

Of course African slaves were exposed to the poor Europeans of American and indentured servant cultures. Which is where they got it. Hundreds of years later 1000's of people have mis information about a cultural activity.

Disco & House music was a combinationn Italian Black-American influences

aardvark15 said:

alphastreet said:

you are kidding right?

No she's pretty much a black woman in a white woman's body musically speaking

Mariah identifies as a Multiracial woman, just let her be that.

Mariah has strong black Pentecostal roots growing up. She still attends a local Pentecostal church in NYC

That's why I made the point that the music created by African Americans is very different than the music that came out of Africa. African Americans had many more diverse influences

Yes, that is true, but African Americans were not one group either! Of course European Americans influenced the music too, but it's not a case of just black and white, african and european. There are so many ethnic groups and cultures in Africa, including west Africa. The black slaves were from many different backgrounds themselves!

whitechocolatebrotha said:

Billboard Magazine's names for said charts have appeared as follows over the years since 1980:

"Hot Soul Singles/Albums"

"Hot Black Singles/Albums"

"Hot R&B Singles/Albums"

"Hot Hip Hop/R&B Singles/Albums."

I don't really read Billboard much anymore, but thought I would share this info. where it pertains to the discussion. Is our music today even called "Soul" anymore or "R&B?" I've seen the "Urban" tag before, but find it a little bizarre especially for those who live in the more rural areas and who make it their listening preference. TOO MANY labels! When did the music stop being "The Music?" It's both frustrating and annoying. I just say "I listen to _____ (the name or names of the artists.) Makes life simpler that way (for ME anyway.) Peace.

I know what you mean, I tell people I like R&B they think I like Tinchy Styder and Rihanna! lol

OldFriends4Sale said:

BlaqueKnight said:

So now, black folk are getting too much credit?

What's next? The U.S. wasn't really built on the backs of slaves?

jazz, blues, gospel, R&B, rock, house, reggae, disco, hip-hop, soul, and most contemporary forms of American music were invented by BLACK FOLK. That is FACT, and not at liberty for debate. Country was a spin off of blues; techno was a spin off of house and electro. While there were always a few white people participating in any and all given genres, of those specifically named, their origins started in the black community. When rock and roll was "race music", most whites wanted no part of it. Once it became "hip", the effort to write blacks out of it began, as had been done with jazz.

Influence is another topic altogether and influence is very wide and diverse.

I get sick of history revisionists.

Political correctness does not equal truth.

I don't think it has anything to do with that

Truthfully the US wasn't only built on the backs of African slaves, because Native-American backs were used too and even poor european indentured servants (a lot of times the Irish) even certain aspects had Asian (Korean?) labor

Also African slaves in America mostly were in use for the 'confederate' states, not all states(we weren't United yet)

It's just about being realistic and factual. Other than that it looks like black folks have some serious self esteem issues.

Black is a very US driven cultural identity that at times other cultures/countries use for certain ethnic groups of African Indian and even Australian peoples.

In all respect Black music is not a self contained music style. Meaning (other here have stated) it's music that is very much a combination of things from other ethnic groups. I think the beat is probably the only thing that is very much 'African' originated. The on the beat bass clap snap etc

Also as much as I love 'black' music, and culture, and respect it.

I also believe in letting people be individuals 1st, so just because someone we

identify as black is making music doesn't make it 'black' music

Is Tracey Chapman doing 'black' music (folk/country/bluegrass)?

Black American culture is a melting pot, it's not like saying Ghanian culture or Nigerian culture

Most black americans think 'Jumping the Broom' is a black/slave cultural expression.

But don't realize that 'jumping the broom' originated in England and peasants could not legally get married so they 'jumped the broom' in the same fashion African slaves did in america.

Of course African slaves were exposed to the poor Europeans of American and indentured servant cultures. Which is where they got it. Hundreds of years later 1000's of people have mis information about a cultural activity.

Disco & House music was a combinationn Italian Black-American influences

Actually, yes, it was mostly built on the backs of African slaves.

Thank you, Unholyalliance for making those counterpoints. After reading that load of crass condescension, my response may have ended up being more edgy than I would have preferred on this site.

Its always amusing when "others" try to "school" a black/native with their revisionist history.

Good points, btw.

[Edited 11/17/11 14:59pm]

rialb said:

You need to read what I typed more carefully. I'm not saying that white American contributions are being minimalised. I am saying that all non black contributions are being minimalised. Notice I specifically said "the contributions of other races/cultures are being minimised."

As far as I know, the creation of many popular musical genres have been credited to black American musicians. This is not overstating anything. As far as other contributions and influences, well yeah, they do come from many other places as does with any art. Is this what you guys are arguing about?

Example, you talked about white Jewish Americans being the ones to write many jazz pieces. They may have contributed a lot to jazz causing it to evolve even more, but that doesn't change its origins.

When did I not give black Americans credit for their contributions? Please go back and re-read my posts and you will see that I said they were massively influential. The only point I am trying to make is that there were other races that also made important contributions and that blacks were heavily influenced by other cultures. I keep going back to this point but if blacks and blacks alone created popular music then why is African music distictly different from American/African American music?

I'm a little confused. Anyone who creates anything has been influenced by the world around them. I keep saying that too. That still doesn't change that many black musicians still had a significant hand in the creation of them though.

This is what I think that you are saying:

Ok, so a group of people create something new right? But according to you, giving those people credit would be incorrect, because their creation was influenced by something else? Something else that may have been the work of others and then that was influenced from someone/something else and so on.

If that's the case then why would anyone ever give anyone credit for creating something new as it's just a rehash of what came before it? The world around you is what influences your art. Now you are saying it is wrong to credit the individual artist(s)? Wouldn't that be like saying you can't credit Picasso and Georges Braque for Cubism which went on to be highly influential to post-modern art, because it was heavily influenced by African & Asian art?! Or that it's not European art, because of all of those influences?!?!?!!?! I don't get it.

R&B

Blues

Soul

Jazz/Swing

Rock & Roll

smoothcriminal12 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think it has anything to do with that

Truthfully the US wasn't only built on the backs of African slaves, because Native-American backs were used too and even poor european indentured servants (a lot of times the Irish) even certain aspects had Asian (Korean?) labor

Also African slaves in America mostly were in use for the 'confederate' states, not all states(we weren't United yet)

It's just about being realistic and factual. Other than that it looks like black folks have some serious self esteem issues.

Black is a very US driven cultural identity that at times other cultures/countries use for certain ethnic groups of African Indian and even Australian peoples.

In all respect Black music is not a self contained music style. Meaning (other here have stated) it's music that is very much a combination of things from other ethnic groups. I think the beat is probably the only thing that is very much 'African' originated. The on the beat bass clap snap etc

Also as much as I love 'black' music, and culture, and respect it.

I also believe in letting people be individuals 1st, so just because someone we

identify as black is making music doesn't make it 'black' music

Is Tracey Chapman doing 'black' music (folk/country/bluegrass)?

Black American culture is a melting pot, it's not like saying Ghanian culture or Nigerian culture

Most black americans think 'Jumping the Broom' is a black/slave cultural expression.

But don't realize that 'jumping the broom' originated in England and peasants could not legally get married so they 'jumped the broom' in the same fashion African slaves did in america.

Of course African slaves were exposed to the poor Europeans of American and indentured servant cultures. Which is where they got it. Hundreds of years later 1000's of people have mis information about a cultural activity.

Disco & House music was a combinationn Italian Black-American influences

Actually, yes, it was mostly built on the backs of African slaves.

...............and cheap Chinese labor (THINK: railroads)!

TonyVanDam said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Actually, yes, it was mostly built on the backs of African slaves.

...............and cheap Chinese labor (THINK: railroads)!

....Canada.

ISF said:

That's why I made the point that the music created by African Americans is very different than the music that came out of Africa. African Americans had many more diverse influences

Yes, that is true, but African Americans were not one group either! Of course European Americans influenced the music too, but it's not a case of just black and white, african and european. There are so many ethnic groups and cultures in Africa, including west Africa. The black slaves were from many different backgrounds themselves!

True, but African cultural/religious expressions are basically exterminated

there are certain things they were able to hold on2 and hide, but overall

diverse African ethnicity/cultural expression did not continue on to influence later culture

smoothcriminal12 said:

TonyVanDam said:

...............and cheap Chinese labor (THINK: railroads)!

....Canada.

America too

Chinese American history is the history of Chinese Americans or the history of ethnic Chinese in the United States. Chinese immigration to the U.S. consisted of three major waves, with the first beginning in the 19th century. Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril." Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor." Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race. These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the U.S. that had left China without their wives and children; anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women.

Y'all busters always gotta make everything political but that's what happens when a thread of this manner is created. Happy politricking.

[Edited 11/17/11 16:03pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

....Canada.

America too

Chinese American history is the history of Chinese Americans or the history of ethnic Chinese in the United States. Chinese immigration to the U.S. consisted of three major waves, with the first beginning in the 19th century. Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril." Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor." Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race. These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the U.S. that had left China without their wives and children; anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women.

I wouldn't know. I'm Canadian.

BlaqueKnight said:

Thank you, Unholyalliance for making those counterpoints. After reading that load of crass condescension, my response may have ended up being more edgy than I would have preferred on this site.

Its always amusing when "others" try to "school" a black/native with their revisionist history.

Good points, btw.

[Edited 11/17/11 14:59pm]

Its funny how people make assumptions not know anything about the other person background lol

I also like it how 'all black people' are supposed to agree & think alike, hi 5iving other bruthas

talk about loving ignorance

smoothcriminal12 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

America too

Chinese American history is the history of Chinese Americans or the history of ethnic Chinese in the United States. Chinese immigration to the U.S. consisted of three major waves, with the first beginning in the 19th century. Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril." Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor." Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race. These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the U.S. that had left China without their wives and children; anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women.

I wouldn't know. I'm Canadian.

ok, I'm from America and I know about different ethnic groups in Canada too lol

OldFriends4Sale said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I wouldn't know. I'm Canadian.

ok, I'm from America and I know about different ethnic groups in Canada too lol

Yeah, but I only bother to learn about black people in America

smoothcriminal12 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

ok, I'm from America and I know about different ethnic groups in Canada too lol

Yeah, but I only bother to learn about black people in America

You're so cute. We love you too.

smoothcriminal12 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think it has anything to do with that

Truthfully the US wasn't only built on the backs of African slaves, because Native-American backs were used too and even poor european indentured servants (a lot of times the Irish) even certain aspects had Asian (Korean?) labor

Also African slaves in America mostly were in use for the 'confederate' states, not all states(we weren't United yet)

It's just about being realistic and factual. Other than that it looks like black folks have some serious self esteem issues.

Black is a very US driven cultural identity that at times other cultures/countries use for certain ethnic groups of African Indian and even Australian peoples.

In all respect Black music is not a self contained music style. Meaning (other here have stated) it's music that is very much a combination of things from other ethnic groups. I think the beat is probably the only thing that is very much 'African' originated. The on the beat bass clap snap etc

Also as much as I love 'black' music, and culture, and respect it.

I also believe in letting people be individuals 1st, so just because someone we

identify as black is making music doesn't make it 'black' music

Is Tracey Chapman doing 'black' music (folk/country/bluegrass)?

Black American culture is a melting pot, it's not like saying Ghanian culture or Nigerian culture

Most black americans think 'Jumping the Broom' is a black/slave cultural expression.

But don't realize that 'jumping the broom' originated in England and peasants could not legally get married so they 'jumped the broom' in the same fashion African slaves did in america.

Of course African slaves were exposed to the poor Europeans of American and indentured servant cultures. Which is where they got it. Hundreds of years later 1000's of people have mis information about a cultural activity.

Disco & House music was a combinationn Italian Black-American influences

Actually, yes, it was mostly built on the backs of African slaves.

Did i disagree? I said Truth(fully) african slaves were not the only ones

a lot of what we call NYC especially the tunnels and subways were built on the blood and swet of Native Americans

I'm not someone who believes in the whole 'my pain is worse than yours'

(I didn't say ni&&er I said dego, it's not as bad) as someone told me

Truth is truth, the TransAtlantic slave trade was horrible, slavery was probably worse for the slave of the states than the islands or S. America or Central America, but the truths of each people and country is what it is. The slaves of Louisianna probably experienced a different kind of situation that those of Georgia I mean there isn't 1 story to be told.

smoothcriminal12 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

ok, I'm from America and I know about different ethnic groups in Canada too lol

Yeah, but I only bother to learn about black people in America

And I love to learn about the black people who left America(non Jamaican) and went to Canada

and how their outlooks on race as well as how non-blacks of Canada see them/themselves vs in America

When I first started going to Canada via Toronto I noticed how many 'black' girls wore their hair natural vs in America

musicjunky318 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Yeah, but I only bother to learn about black people in America

You're so cute. We love you too.

Aw. Thanks.

OldFriends4Sale said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Thank you, Unholyalliance for making those counterpoints. After reading that load of crass condescension, my response may have ended up being more edgy than I would have preferred on this site.

Its always amusing when "others" try to "school" a black/native with their revisionist history.

Good points, btw.

[Edited 11/17/11 14:59pm]

Its funny how people make assumptions not know anything about the other person background lol

I also like it how 'all black people' are supposed to agree & think alike, hi 5iving other bruthas

talk about loving ignorance

There was no ignorance in the statements I made about the origins of "black music", which is the topic.

You tried to make a strawman argument as if I stated what I did in absolutes. Never did I say "all" or "only" but you argued as if I did. Now that may fly in a classroom full of ADD 8th graders, but not in intelligent conversation where people pay attention. You seem to want to attempt to revise history to be politically correct. Black people and white people weren't holding and and singing kum-by-ya in neighborhoods all across America in the early years. A great deal was STOLEN - music, culture, credit for work, etc. Denial of this when there is so much evidence to the contrary is somewhere between head-in-the-sand ignorance and passive agressive racism.

By the way, Jerry Butler's "Only The Strong Survive" is considered by most to be the first disco song.

Please refrain from trying to distort or revise music history. You can't just deny peoples' involvement or downplay it because it doesn't suit you.

We don't have to all agree and/or think alike, but you should at least know what you are talking about and come with some facts before you enter a conversation and not try to tailor it to your own personal stances/beliefs.

Unholyalliance said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Truthfully the US wasn't only built on the backs of African slaves, because Native-American backs were used too and even poor european indentured servants (a lot of times the Irish) even certain aspects had Asian (Korean?) labor

Also African slaves in America mostly were in use for the 'confederate' states, not all states(we weren't United yet)

=/

To me, you are making it seem that slavery almost didn't exist in the North and I, strongly, disagree. With time, the North's economy depended way less on farming as opposed to the South, but it's not as if slavery had been fully abolished in the North either though. The actual Confederate States didn't even exist until the 1860s. Africans were shipped here to be indentured servants in colonial America as far back as the 1600s and we all know that parts of Europe were doing that way before then. That's over 200 years!!! Please don't make it seem as if slavery solelyexisted for and in the South. That's some gross misinformation and kinda insulting imo. I feel that's similar to the Japanese trying to minimize their role in WWII and just acting as if the country as a whole was minding their own business when the US just came along and "randomly" dropped 2 atomic bombs on them. That is not accurate in the least.

I was being a bit funny when I said the US wasn't built... the US meaning United States which at the time it was not.

Slavery did not exist from N - S E - W
(indentured servants is something totally different than the slavery) Native-Americans were also slaves prior to the transAtlantic slave trade

please don't be insulted lol you took that way 2 offended field lol US = United States not Colonial America

Yes I agree that the actual use of slavery had far reaching affects

In all respect Black music is not a self contained music style. Meaning (other here have stated) it's music that is very much a combination of things from other ethnic groups. I think the beat is probably the only thing that is very much 'African' originated. The on the beat bass clap snap etc

I already posted something that went slightly further into this, but doing a 5 minute search on google even will give you more information. I don't understand why people are just posting without doing proper research first. I understand that everyone has their own opinions, but it's another to give out misleading information.

Great, I didn't sign up for your history course. We could fill this up with history book info but it just get's drawn out, there are a lot of African traditions that were brought over and actually held onto in secret, moreso in the Caribbean isles and latin countries, some did survive in the states... I bow to you for being our educator shessh

The word 'chip' doesn't refer to a french fry in America, but rather potato chips. I don't get where you are going with this? That expressions and meanings of words change from culture to culture?!?!?!

[Other than that it looks like black folks have some serious self esteem issues.]

This statement comes off pretty ignorant imo. Yes, the black American community does have esteem issues, but it's not as if it's arbitrarily so.

I didn't say the Black American community has esteem issues lol but uv already become insulted. Yet you still agree with it?? confusing. I said "It's just about being realistic and factual. Other than that it looks like black folks have some serious self esteem issues." Meaning running around with not even close to factual ideas of romanticism can make black folk(individuals) sound like they have self esteem issues. Example "In African We Were All Kings & Queens" don't tell you haven't heard that and that way too many black folk sited that as a fact. Or that any mulatto that came about was the result of rape. Not true. But it get's the revolutionary emotions going so run with it...

Is there really 1 Black American community? Or is there a diversity? that does not always think the same nor agree? How many cheered when they saw the Cosby Show & A Different world and said this is the world I came from 'my community' and how many others said that's not how Black people are, that's nothing like my world. So who is right, more than 1 Black community? Yes of course

Families and people who were brought here were all broken up. Children sold off without their parents as if they were animals. Years of being beaten, killed, treated not even as you are not even human, but rather someone's property. Then when you are freed you are treated as a second class citizen and your own culture (what is left of it) is frowned upon. You have people who are trying to find their own culture, but yet trying to be accepted by the main culture which still rejects them.

True, I don't disagree with this, but again U didn't understand what I meant in the original statement. Talk to the Native Americans who were used to living free on the land who are herded into reservations, who actually were on the edge of extermination. Who is heard speaking their language were beaten publicly, who's familys were taken from them, names & culture white washed. ... No ones pain is greater than any others.

Hundreds of years later 1000's of people have mis information about a cultural activity.

This thread is slightly depressing. There seems to be a lot of misinformation being spread. I don't get it. It's like in my textbook where they used to say that miles of land were uninhabited when the European settlers came, but that's a lie, because people were already here when they came. They moved them out, enslaved them, and then made many of them isolate themselves onto a lot of really shitty parts of the land.

It's always depressing

Black American culture is a melting pot, it's not like saying Ghanian culture or Nigerian culture

Most cultures in the world have been influenced by others, except for the ones that are deep within places like the Amazon. Especially if they have participated in trade and wars. That being said...I still think that you are trying to imply that Black Americans don't have their own culture? Is that what you are saying?

No Black Americans do have their own culture, but it's very much different from a culture like in the Congo or Nigeria, I really don't think that should be hard to understand. A lot of Black American culture is the result of the mixing pot. Just by the fact you speak English and not an African language nor do you probably have an African ethnic name.

Gospel Music, (Black American expression) the rhythms and instrumental use very much a connection to Africa, the choral singing very much a European expression.

Most black americans think 'Jumping the Broom' is a black/slave cultural expression.

But don't realize that 'jumping the broom' originated in England and peasants could not legally get married so they 'jumped the broom' in the same fashion African slaves did in america.

The word 'chip' doesn't refer to a french fry in America, but rather potato chips. I don't get where you are going with this? That expressions and meanings of words change from culture to culture?!?!?!

No, this is totally different. Jumping the Broom is not an African cultural expression as I've found a lot of people I talked to believe. It's a borrowed expression from English peasants. It's now become a part of African-American(not all of course) marriage expressions. But it not an original African expression. Music in America is the same, what is a defined Black musical expression has it's origins in many different places.

Don't be depressed, there is Black culture Black expression, dance, music etc it's very vivid and very much American

[Edited 11/17/11 17:39pm]

Unholyalliance said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Truthfully the US wasn't only built on the backs of African slaves, because Native-American backs were used too and even poor european indentured servants (a lot of times the Irish) even certain aspects had Asian (Korean?) labor

Also African slaves in America mostly were in use for the 'confederate' states, not all states(we weren't United yet)

=/

To me, you are making it seem that slavery almost didn't exist in the North and I, strongly, disagree. With time, the North's economy depended way less on farming as opposed to the South, but it's not as if slavery had been fully abolished in the North either though. The actual Confederate States didn't even exist until the 1860s. Africans were shipped here to be indentured servants in colonial America as far back as the 1600s and we all know that parts of Europe were doing that way before then. That's over 200 years!!! Please don't make it seem as if slavery solelyexisted for and in the South. That's some gross misinformation and kinda insulting imo. I feel that's similar to the Japanese trying to minimize their role in WWII and just acting as if the country as a whole was minding their own business when the US just came along and "randomly" dropped 2 atomic bombs on them. That is not accurate in the least.

The word 'chip' doesn't refer to a french fry in America, but rather potato chips. I don't get where you are going with this? That expressions and meanings of words change from culture to culture?!?!?!

Hundreds of years later 1000's of people have mis information about a cultural activity.

This thread is slightly depressing. There seems to be a lot of misinformation being spread. I don't get it. It's like in my textbook where they used to say that miles of land were uninhabited when the European settlers came, but that's a lie, because people were already here when they came. They moved them out, enslaved them, and then made many of them isolate themselves onto a lot of really shitty parts of the land.

I have to agree with some of Unholyalliance's post. This is no disrespect to you OF4S or course or anyone else here. It's not about blacks trying to take credit, but at least give credit where credit is due regarding the history/birth of specific forms/style of music, and it shouldn't be water-downed or devalued, because of where it came from and who first introduced it to us. Many of these styles of music, are often defined in that generalized manner, because it encompasses the various, cultural/ethnic groups of Blacks in America, who introduced various sounds of music and styles, including the earliest, rhythmic sounds from early, enslaved Africans, who passed down their music/sounds, to their descendants born in what is now called America today). Many of those sounds/music sung on the plantations in spiritual form gave birth to blues, and as time passed, other styles were born out of those two forms of music, and the creation of other styles developed, by borrowing off each other.

To me, it's not even about a self-esteem issue with Blacks who know the history of specific forms of music, that were born out of various Black cultures/etnnic groups, and define it as 'Black music'. It's about telling the truth of its history, and giving respect and credit to those musicians/artists/cultures/various cultural/ethnic groups, who introduced those various forms of music to the rest of the world.

We're talking about the early, various rhythmic sounds that came out of Africa, from the enslaved Africans, and the spiritual songs/music that developed from them, while working on the plantations of South/Central America, the Caribbean and what is known today, as America, before it became America. From the spiritual songs of pain, suffering and praying for strength to survive, while singing spiritual hympns, to the developed gospel sounds, from which blues' was born. Years later, post-slavery eras, many other sounds developed out of various Black cultures/ethnic groups, like ragtime/swing/jazz/rockabilly/blues rock/rock/funk/r&b, etc., as time passed. All of which were able to be placed in their very, own categories. Just me, adding my extra two cents again.

[Edited 11/17/11 21:10pm]

Can we all at least agree that cake is awesome?

rialb said:

Can we all at least agree that cake is awesome?

Cake IS awesome!

bobbyperu said:

First of all, I love soul and blues and funk. I was listening to James Brown at 16, even before I discoverd Prince a year later. But I never liked the term "black music". Is that just music played by black people? What about the Revolution then? Does Bob Dylan's All Along the Watchtower become black music when Jimi Hendrix plays it? With Mitch & Noel who were from England? But Dylan was influenced by blues artists just like the Stones and The Beatles. All the way up to Eminem. But if I were to say that "black music" does not exist, I would deny the whole blues/jazz tradition that can be traced back all the way to Africa. So what do you think? Is there such a thing as black music?

This is a jumble of nonsense. Would the origin of classical music change if the musicians playing the music are black? If I sing a Bhuddist chant would that mean it didn't originate in China? What about Bhangra music? Would my playing that style of music mean that it didn't originate with Indian people???

Black music simply refers to musical styles that "originated" within the cultures of people who are black, whether on the continent or within the diaspora. It is a desciptive term just like latin music, indian music, japanese music, etc...what's not to like about the term???

Furthermore, origin and influence are not the same thing so the analogies that you gave are silly and btw, the Revolution was a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural band who played a variety of styles of music, sometimes within the same song so for the life of me I can't see what your point is.

Now because of you the non black folks get all miffed and defensive and black folk for the umpteenth time are in the position of providing explanations.

Until people start demanding that Hungarians, Spaniards, Persians, Arabs, Russians, Chinese, etc explain their musical styles I don't see why we always have to explain ours and I have yet to see any black folk placing restrictions on musicians playing whatever style of music they choose to play.

BlaqueKnight said:

rialb said:

Can we all at least agree that cake is awesome?

Cake IS awesome!

Common ground!