Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

[img:$uid]http://i51.tinypic.com/123axyh.gif[/img:$uid]

chile with this ol news

Yes, she wanted fame like michael and Jack wanted to pimp her at the same time, and would wrap her around his dick to keep her around. If she wanted out, I'm sure he knew how to keep her around, even if through telling lies. Though she's no saint and did things before abuse escalated, she also developed learned helplessness as most do if with a partner like Jack Gordon. I'm looking at this all objectively, I'm not a Latoya Jackson fan.

LOL. There's a difference between Homosexuality and Pedophilia. Michael was into little boys, it wasn't his fault, Pedophiles don't choose to be children-lovers, they're born that way. But I will fault him for not getting any help. He let his perversion get the best of him.

Terrib3Towel said:

LOL. There's a difference between Homosexuality and Pedophilia. Michael was into little boys, it wasn't his fault, Pedophiles don't choose to be children-lovers, they're born that way. But I will fault him for not getting any help. He let his perversion get the best of him.

[img:$uid]http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/127740/919443.jpg[/img:$uid]

Terrib3Towel said:

LOL. There's a difference between Homosexuality and Pedophilia. Michael was into little boys, it wasn't his fault, Pedophiles don't choose to be children-lovers, they're born that way. But I will fault him for not getting any help. He let his perversion get the best of him.

I agree, but I really don't think he would've been able to get help even if he wanted to. He was the most famous man in the world and he knew this secret of his could destroy everything he ever worked for if it ever came out. Telling ANYONE about it would have been HUGELY risky!

I'm sure he was open about his homosexuality with trusted, gay-loving friends like Liz Taylor, Liza Minelli, Diana Ross, etc. but I doubt if he ever admitted his attraction to kids to anyone. Too fucking dangerous. Only the select few boys he made a move on would've ever got direct confirmation of his secret hungers. But there were a ton of people around him who suspected but looked the other way. Bob Jones for instance knew exactly what was going on when MJ and Jordan Chandler were holed up in that hotel room in Monaco for 48 hours. But he looked the other way.

[Edited 11/11/11 3:11am]

angel345 said:

midnightmover said:

Michael didn't really start to let his guard down and bring the boys into his bed until he left the family home (that was the same time as he left the Jehovah's Witnesses which is no coincidence -that religion is one of the most homophobic and restrictive of them all).

Even if he'd paid off boys before then, it's ridiculous to think he would have left the checks lying around for his mother to find. Believe me, Latoya jumped on the child abuse scandal for the same reason she wrote that ludicrous book, posed for Playboy, told the lie about Michael's "heroine pipe", etc. She's an empty-headed attention seeker. No-one should take her seriously. Her latest evil claims are that Michael was "murdered". The woman is every bit as loopy as Michael himself.

Family members have supported her belief and claim of that. I know she can be a walking contradicting, and the only time I can take her seriously is when or if her statements is supported.

That's like saying my claim of being whizzed up by aliens onto the mothership is supported by the local loon who sleeps on the park bench therefore my statement is credible.

Emancipation89 said:

vainandy said:

As for the things she said about him molesting children in the past, I think she now regrets exposing those things out of anger but as far as having the little boys goes, I believe it. I have no hate for Michael Jackson. He was a great artist with great music who supported great causes, believed in spreading love, and truly wanted to see the world change for the better. However, he was still a grown man, even though he had the mind of a child, and grown men are going to sleep with either someone or some thing. Grown men are going to have an orgasm some kind of way. Hell, even priests are being exposed after all these years. Men have to have orgasms and I never saw Michael with anything other than kids and the few times you saw him with a woman, you knew good and damn well they were just friends and not fucking. Hell, even in his marriages.

lol generalizations

vainandy said:

As for the things she said about him molesting children in the past, I think she now regrets exposing those things out of anger but as far as having the little boys goes, I believe it. I have no hate for Michael Jackson. He was a great artist with great music who supported great causes, believed in spreading love, and truly wanted to see the world change for the better. However, he was still a grown man, even though he had the mind of a child, and grown men are going to sleep with either someone or some thing. Grown men are going to have an orgasm some kind of way. Hell, even priests are being exposed after all these years. Men have to have orgasms and I never saw Michael with anything other than kids and the few times you saw him with a woman, you knew good and damn well they were just friends and not fucking. Hell, even in his marriages.

I don't blame him though. I blame that sorry ass father of his for being so abusive to him. Too much importance was put on that sorry man by the family and I think he's the reason Michael never really fully grew up and still had the mind of a child. He thought he was a kid himself and if he had those boys, in his mind, he may have felt like he was just "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" like so many little boys do when they're alone. Then I blame that goofy ass religion the family was a part of. I have never seen a religion so strict as that one that frowns on anything fun and thinks that they're the only ones that will ever make it to Heaven and everyone else is condemned, especially a homosexual which I believe he was. Most people are part of a religion but Jehovah's Witnesses seem to be obsessed with their religion and think about it 24/7. And thirdly, I blame society's hatred of homosexuals thoughout the years. Gay people are the most hated people on the planet, hated by all races, social classes, and age groups. A major star like Michael would be scared as hell to come out. Only in recent years, have stars felt comfortable about coming out and Michael has been a star for a long time. There's no way he could sleep with a grown man without them eventually exposing him later or blackmailing him to keep quiet. A child would be too innocent and wouldn't understand or know how to do that so I think a combination of those things may be why he went after them if he actually did have them.

w[Edited 11/9/11 4:14am]

Wow. What fascinates me is that people are so freaking afraid to admit that they don't know for sure, so they have to make up a story on things instead of leaving it uncertain. And you seem to believe your own judgements 100%. I don't see the difference between your post and some other fan's post, saying "Michael was an angel, he was god, was the sweetest most kind human being on earth".

Did you see the parts in red or did you get so pissed off reading the rest of my post seeing that I wasn't riding the little choo choo train from Mr. Roger's Neighborhood into The Land Of Make Believe, kissing ass, and releasing doves that you missed the red parts?

Terrib3Towel said:

LOL. There's a difference between Homosexuality and Pedophilia. Michael was into little boys, it wasn't his fault, Pedophiles don't choose to be children-lovers, they're born that way. But I will fault him for not getting any help. He let his perversion get the best of him.

Pedophilia is a very hard thing for me to understand. I don't think I'll ever understand it but I always try to figure out why people are the way they are. People get mad at me sometimes when we discuss the subject when pedophilia comes up from time to time in the news and say...."Don't try to understand it because they're sick so you'll never understand it"....but I think if a person is capable of being corrected, you have to first understand why they are the way they are and then begin to correct it....if possible.

I can't help the gender I'm attracted to because I was born attracted to the same gender. However, there is a reason why I'm attracted to a certain type of man which is an extremely hairy, masculine man with no femine traits at all. It's because during my years of growing up and developing the type of men I was attracted to in the 1970s and early 1980s, those type of men were what was considered sex symbols at the time. The hairy chested man with the unbuttoned shirt down to his navel. The shirtless men at the swimming pools with the extremely furry chests wearing the skimpy bikini briefs with the treasure trail going into the swimsuit leading to a thick bush that was slightly exposed at the top of the swimsuit and thick hair coming out of the leg openings and onto the legs. And the Sears catalogs with the men in the white briefs with all the hair and you could almost see it through the briefs it was so thick. Burt Reynolds laying naked on the bear rug, Tom Selleck shirtless, Philip Michael Thomas shirtless on a beach....DAMN I'm getting hard right now.... Excuse me a minute, I'll be right back......

.....Whew, OK I'm back now. Anyway.......back to Michael..... ......I've tried to understand Michael and the way he turned out and from what I've observed is, as soon as he was no longer a small child and was a teenager, he seemed gay. Even before "Off The Wall" when he started looking pretty, during the "Enjoy Yourself" era and "Destiny" eras when he would finish singing and they would interview him, his voice sounded feminine or gay. I think he was born gay like the rest of us and nothing could change that but after seeing him when he got on his own a little bit, he started hanging out with kids, not like a father figure or "Big Brother" like some of the charitable programs for boys without fathers or brothers, but as a child himself and playmate just like the other kids were. When he brought Emmanual Lewis to the Awards Show, I thought it was a publicity stunt but when I first noticed that he wasn't "quite right" was when I saw the "Moonwalker" video. He thought he was a child himself throughout that entire video tape. After that video tape, he just got worse and worse hanging out with kids and acting like one himself.

From what I've observed from Michael over the years is he can't just like or admire someone or something, he has to become it. The "Thriller" video happened because he wanted to become a wearwolf. Sure, it was an acting gig, but people have said in interviews that he saw a wearwolf in a movie and was so fascinated with it that he wanted to be one himself like a child would be fascinated and want to play dressup. Then, all the plastic surgeries. He was always fascinated with Diana Ross and for a while there, he started looking like her. Hell, he even sounded like her sometimes when he would talk. So when I saw him with kids, that was no different. He wasn't playing with them like an adult would. He was running around, hollering, jumping up and down, just like they were and it didn't seem like he was an authority figure out there with him. It seemed like he needed an adult authority figure out there with him also. It's like he was trying to become a child himself and living in a fantasy world.

Even though he may have wanted to be a child himself in his mind, his body was still telling him he was an adult and adults get urges, especially male adults. Then he admitted himself that he had sleepovers with some of the boys and even let them sleep in his bed, sometimes on the floor and sometimes in the bed with him. If he did molest those boys, I don't think he was born wanting them, I think it was a result of his warped brain from the way he grew up and from the abuse he got from his father.

I don't know, Michael is a hard one to figure out because he's not the average anything and he's led a life like no one else has led. I think the average child molester is just a sex hungry man who would sleep with anything that's around him, regardless of age, if he gets horny. If Michael was one, I think things led up to him being one. Otherwise, I think he would have been just a normal gay man that goes after other grown men.

midnightmover said:

Terrib3Towel said:

LOL. There's a difference between Homosexuality and Pedophilia. Michael was into little boys, it wasn't his fault, Pedophiles don't choose to be children-lovers, they're born that way. But I will fault him for not getting any help. He let his perversion get the best of him.

I agree, but I really don't think he would've been able to get help even if he wanted to. He was the most famous man in the world and he knew this secret of his could destroy him if it ever came out. Telling ANYONE about it would have been HUGELY risky!

I'm sure he was open about his homosexuality with trusted, gay-loving friends like Liz Taylor, Liza Minelli, Diana Ross, etc. but I doubt if he ever admitted his attraction to kids to anyone. Too fucking dangerous. Only the select few boys he made a move on would've ever got direct confirmation of his secret hungers. But there were a ton of people around him who suspected but looked the other way. Bob Jones for instance knew exactly what was going on when MJ and Jordan Chandler were holed up in that hotel room in Monaco for 48 hours. But he looked the other way.

[Edited 11/10/11 5:00am]

I would think so too and that's definitely what a normal gay person would do if they were a huge star like him. However, he was only seen hanging with children and nothing else. When a gay man has straight female friends to confide in, they give them advice on how to do things and I think these ladies would have told him there are ways to have men without the public knowing about it. If we had seen him at functions with an adult male from time to time that he claimed to be a "friend" of his, or if we had seen him with a man from time to time that was supposed to be "handling his business" or a "business partner", he could have done it that way. He could have had several "Oprah and Gayle" type friendships. I don't think these ladies are lesbians but I'm just saying that's a way he could have had men. Of course, people would speculate but they wouldn't know for sure and he could always deny it. Having people speculate if you're sleeping with a man is definitely better than having people speculate if you're sleeping with a child.

I think if he had been open about his sexuality with those women, they would have given him advice and told him how he could discreetly have men. I think because of his father, religion, and the world's hatred of homosexuals, he didn't even want to admit it to himself even though he had those urges. You have to admit it to yourself before you can admit it to even the closest friend. And I'm sure those ladies knew what he was but would never ask him for fear of upsetting and offending him.

vainandy said:

midnightmover said:

I agree, but I really don't think he would've been able to get help even if he wanted to. He was the most famous man in the world and he knew this secret of his could destroy him if it ever came out. Telling ANYONE about it would have been HUGELY risky!

I'm sure he was open about his homosexuality with trusted, gay-loving friends like Liz Taylor, Liza Minelli, Diana Ross, etc. but I doubt if he ever admitted his attraction to kids to anyone. Too fucking dangerous. Only the select few boys he made a move on would've ever got direct confirmation of his secret hungers. But there were a ton of people around him who suspected but looked the other way. Bob Jones for instance knew exactly what was going on when MJ and Jordan Chandler were holed up in that hotel room in Monaco for 48 hours. But he looked the other way.

[Edited 11/10/11 5:00am]

I would think so too and that's definitely what a normal gay person would do if they were a huge star like him. However, he was only seen hanging with children and nothing else. When a gay man has straight female friends to confide in, they give them advice on how to do things and I think these ladies would have told him there are ways to have men without the public knowing about it. If we had seen him at functions with an adult male from time to time that he claimed to be a "friend" of his, or if we had seen him with a man from time to time that was supposed to be "handling his business" or a "business partner", he could have done it that way. He could have had several "Oprah and Gayle" type friendships. I don't think these ladies are lesbians but I'm just saying that's a way he could have had men. Of course, people would speculate but they wouldn't know for sure and he could always deny it. Having people speculate if you're sleeping with a man is definitely better than having people speculate if you're sleeping with a child.

I think if he had been open about his sexuality with those women, they would have given him advice and told him how he could discreetly have men. I think because of his father, religion, and the world's hatred of homosexuals, he didn't even want to admit it to himself even though he had those urges. You have to admit it to yourself before you can admit it to even the closest friend. And I'm sure those ladies knew what he was but would never ask him for fear of upsetting and offending him.

Yeah, with women as deeply embedded in the gay community as that, there wouldn't even be a need to say it. It would just be understood.

But I always remember that quote from MJ in the late 70s when he said Diana Ross was someone he could trust with all his "deepest, darkest secrets" so I think he most likely did speak openly about it with her.

kibbles said:

TonyVanDam said:

1. As long as Jack Goldman was alive, LaToya still had to yield to the gag order as part of their out-of-court divorce settlement, hence why she couldn't tell her real story until Jack's death.

2. Two different things? Bullshit! How do you think all pimps control the women in their stable? They hit them. And that is exactly how a scumbag liked Jack controlled LaToya.

i don't believe he started out hitting her. he didn't have to. she was a willing participant. she was going to get her fame, and she was going to play the cards she had in order to do that i.e., drag her family through the mud for attention.

i don't believe for one single second that for the majority of their time together that she was with him against her will. only when the money started drying up b/c the stunts had run their course, when she had been made a laughing stock and was reduced to being the opening act at a strip club, that's when things started to change, that's when the abuse began, and that jack resorted to type because he was what he was.

Well this is where the both of us are going to continue to strongly disagree because I find it impossible to believe that LaToya OR any woman could be a "willing participant" if they were already a victim of blackmail ahead of time.

kibbles said:

SoulAlive said:

LaToya turned against her brother when he needed her the most.She forgot how much he helped her when her career was struggling in the 80s.He wrote and produced a hit song for her ("Nighttime Lover"),featured her on his massive hit single "P.Y.T" and even gave her roles in a few of his videos ("Say,Say,Say" and "The Way You Make Me Feel").He did alot to get her some much-needed exposure.I guess 'family loyalty' meant nothing to her

no it didn't. i am sooooo perplexed as to why this woman is getting such a sympathetic pass. as the thread starter said, she's a HYPOCRITE and a liar and a user and an attention whore. i can't feel sorry for someone who was sitting the lap of luxury most of her sorry life, who didn't appreciate it, and who sold out the one person whose talent was really responsible for pulling all these mofos out of bum-fuck gary, indiana.

We finally agree on something in thread. LaToya is an attention whore. Just look at her well-paid breasts!

alphastreet said:

kibbles said:

i don't believe he started out hitting her. he didn't have to. she was a willing participant. she was going to get her fame, and she was going to play the cards she had in order to do that i.e., drag her family through the mud for attention.

i don't believe for one single second that for the majority of their time together that she was with him against her will. only when the money started drying up b/c the stunts had run their course, when she had been made a laughing stock and was reduced to being the opening act at a strip club, that's when things started to change, that's when the abuse began, and that jack resorted to type because he was what he was.

A lot of abusive relationships start with verbal and emotional abuse, as well and controlling and posessive behaviour before it escalates to physical abuse. They both got together with one another for the wrong reasons and it was a recipe for disaster. She didn't even love him and had to marry him. The PHYSICAL abuse was made known around the strip club incident, but abuse takes on many forms and it had been going on for years emotionally and mentally.

Exactly.

midnightmover said:

angel345 said:

Family members have supported her belief and claim of that. I know she can be a walking contradicting, and the only time I can take her seriously is when or if her statements is supported.

That's like saying my claim of being whizzed up by aliens onto the mothership is supported by the local loon who sleeps on the park bench therefore my statement is credible.

So, I guess her mother is a loon. Is that what you're saying? I guess it was all in MJ's head when he feared for his life. Well, the trial is over, and Murray was convicted, so I'll leave it at that.

[Edited 11/10/11 11:29am]

kibbles said:

angel345 said:

He was a prosperity preacher? I didn't know that.

no, not jack. i'm referring to latoya. she was raised as a jehovah's witness. she knew about 'the world' and how women get turned out. they are always preaching about staying away from the ways of the world. so she wasn't naive, esp. as i said, she was nearly 40 years old when all this went down. FORTY. you only get to play the ingenue when you are one.

Ok, I see.

Terrib3Towel said:

Michael was into little boys, it wasn't his fault, Pedophiles don't choose to be children-lovers, they're born that way. But I will fault him for not getting any help. He let his perversion get the best of him.

[Edited 11/10/11 10:34am]

TonyVanDam said:

kibbles said:

no it didn't. i am sooooo perplexed as to why this woman is getting such a sympathetic pass. as the thread starter said, she's a HYPOCRITE and a liar and a user and an attention whore. i can't feel sorry for someone who was sitting the lap of luxury most of her sorry life, who didn't appreciate it, and who sold out the one person whose talent was really responsible for pulling all these mofos out of bum-fuck gary, indiana.

We finally agree on something in thread. LaToya is an attention whore. Just look at her well-paid breasts!

She has envied MJ's fame for years. If you look at a YouTube video of him and Latoya, she admitted openly that she wish to have his fame. This video was recorded around the time of "Thriller". It's a family video at their home.

vainandy said:

midnightmover said:

I agree, but I really don't think he would've been able to get help even if he wanted to. He was the most famous man in the world and he knew this secret of his could destroy him if it ever came out. Telling ANYONE about it would have been HUGELY risky!

I'm sure he was open about his homosexuality with trusted, gay-loving friends like Liz Taylor, Liza Minelli, Diana Ross, etc. but I doubt if he ever admitted his attraction to kids to anyone. Too fucking dangerous. Only the select few boys he made a move on would've ever got direct confirmation of his secret hungers. But there were a ton of people around him who suspected but looked the other way. Bob Jones for instance knew exactly what was going on when MJ and Jordan Chandler were holed up in that hotel room in Monaco for 48 hours. But he looked the other way.

[Edited 11/10/11 5:00am]

I would think so too and that's definitely what a normal gay person would do if they were a huge star like him. However, he was only seen hanging with children and nothing else. When a gay man has straight female friends to confide in, they give them advice on how to do things and I think these ladies would have told him there are ways to have men without the public knowing about it. If we had seen him at functions with an adult male from time to time that he claimed to be a "friend" of his, or if we had seen him with a man from time to time that was supposed to be "handling his business" or a "business partner", he could have done it that way. He could have had several "Oprah and Gayle" type friendships. I don't think these ladies are lesbians but I'm just saying that's a way he could have had men. Of course, people would speculate but they wouldn't know for sure and he could always deny it. Having people speculate if you're sleeping with a man is definitely better than having people speculate if you're sleeping with a child.

I think if he had been open about his sexuality with those women, they would have given him advice and told him how he could discreetly have men. I think because of his father, religion, and the world's hatred of homosexuals, he didn't even want to admit it to himself even though he had those urges. You have to admit it to yourself before you can admit it to even the closest friend. And I'm sure those ladies knew what he was but would never ask him for fear of upsetting and offending him.

Vainandy and Midnightmover you both made convincing arguments about Michael's sexuality and predictliction for young boys and older women. I confess I always believed Michael was straight but 'odd'. If he was gay, it wouldnt stop me from being a fan and believing he was innocent. The thing is I dont think we'll ever know if he was gay, maybe Diana Ross knows the answer to that (his mother wouldnt know) he took it to the grave.. let it stay there.

As far as LaToya is concern yes she is a hypocrite she had her shortcomings but I forgave her. Something tells me now that the trial is over this is not the last we'll see of her.

angel345 said:

TonyVanDam said:

We finally agree on something in thread. LaToya is an attention whore. Just look at her well-paid breasts!

She has envied MJ's fame for years. If you look at a YouTube video of him and Latoya, she admitted openly that she wish to have his fame. This video was recorded around the time of "Thriller". It's a family video at their home.

LMAO! I was going to reference that Unauthorized interview too when she said it and was babbling on about it, even Michael eventually called her an idiot

Latoya is quirky, I think we will see more of her too in the future. She amuses me.

The homosexuality argument you posed is interesting, I used to wonder years ago if he was gay too(just cause of makeup and people saying "faggot", nothing else), but I was a sheltered teenager in the 90's that didn't have sound knowledge about sexuality and gender outside the box other than kids being homophobic at school, and my gaydar just doesn't go off with him anymore and hasn't in years, and I'm bisexual. I denied liking the same sex for years though cause of who I grew up around and cause of religious fears too, so dealing with it on a grander scale must be have been harder in those days. He's effiminate and I believe he's kind of like a sponge and quickly absorbs everything around him, like Thriller and subconsciously chanelling the looks of someone he loves as you said, though I think we all do that subconsciously when we love somebody or are inspired by celebrity style. I agree with that part of what you're saying. I think those qualities and having interpersonal relationships with chilldren and older people and whatnot makes him an empath that he draws inspiration from.

[Edited 11/10/11 11:17am]

alphastreet said:

angel345 said:

She has envied MJ's fame for years. If you look at a YouTube video of him and Latoya, she admitted openly that she wish to have his fame. This video was recorded around the time of "Thriller". It's a family video at their home.

LMAO! I was going to reference that Unauthorized interview too when she said it and was babbling on about it, even Michael eventually called her an idiot

Latoya is quirky, I think we will see more of her too in the future. She amuses me.

The homosexuality argument you posed is interesting, I used to wonder years ago if he was gay too(just cause of makeup and people saying "faggot", nothing else), but I was a sheltered teenager in the 90's that didn't have sound knowledge about sexuality and gender outside the box other than kids being homophobic at school, and my gaydar just doesn't go off with him anymore and hasn't in years, and I'm bisexual. I denied liking the opposite sex for years though cause of who I grew up around and cause of religious fears too, so dealing with it on a grander scale must be have been harder in those days. He's effiminate and I believe he's kind of like a sponge and quickly absorbs everything around him, like Thriller and subconsciously chanelling the looks of someone he loves as you said, though I think we all do that subconsciously when we love somebody or are inspired by celebrity style. I agree with that part of what you're saying. I think those qualities and having interpersonal relationships with chilldren and older people and whatnot makes him an empath that he draws inspiration from.

[Edited 11/10/11 11:14am]

[Edited 11/10/11 11:15am]

Yes, that's the tape and alpha, I didn't mention anything about his sexuality. Look at my posts

That was for the other posters, sometimes I reply right away without going back to quote them.

Louie the Llama was the only one who had faith in Latoya in that tape

alphastreet said:

That was for the other posters, sometimes I reply right away without going back to quote them.

Louie the Llama was the only one who had faith in Latoya in that tape

I will say this: I remembered when those gay rumors were surfacing for years. MJ is not here to defend himself, so now you're left wondering. Who knows if he had the same struggles as you did.

I didn't dwell on his orientation like all these people though, to me, he's just michael. And I know none of us know what it's like to be him, but there are so many things he has gone through in his life that have also happened in my life and I could relate to him a lot, although I'm also now old enough to know we will never know what it was like really being him, never having privacy, going through hell with what he was put through and not knowing who to trust. We all deal with these things on a small scale, but it doesn't compare. I used to buy the "child-like image" though I'm not so sure if I always did or not later on, though I do believe he was genuine and he couldn't fake things like that, and how he was reminded me a lot of how I was when I was really young before I knew about him other than the music, so I was drawn to that. I think if I personally knew him, we would have gotten along great cause of having a lot in common and just bouncing off each other, but I'm also extremely blunt and I believe he needed someone like that at times, but also someone who is not judging his character for it. I can understand why LMP got frustrated cause he was high maintenance, but I don't think she understood how his life really shaped him, I'm sure elvis had a different upbringing from him.

[Edited 11/10/11 11:57am]

I guess speculating is fun, but I really don't understand how some of you can say the most outlandish things and be so firm in your stance even though none of you were there. I guess one can go "There's so much info out there already..", but getting bits and pieces here and there doesn't give you the entire picture. I think that, if anything, all of this has probably given me more indepth look & understanding into the posters who are writing some of this stuff.

Emancipation89 said:

vainandy said:

As for the things she said about him molesting children in the past, I think she now regrets exposing those things out of anger but as far as having the little boys goes, I believe it. I have no hate for Michael Jackson. He was a great artist with great music who supported great causes, believed in spreading love, and truly wanted to see the world change for the better. However, he was still a grown man, even though he had the mind of a child, and grown men are going to sleep with either someone or some thing. Grown men are going to have an orgasm some kind of way. Hell, even priests are being exposed after all these years. Men have to have orgasms and I never saw Michael with anything other than kids and the few times you saw him with a woman, you knew good and damn well they were just friends and not fucking. Hell, even in his marriages.

I don't blame him though. I blame that sorry ass father of his for being so abusive to him. Too much importance was put on that sorry man by the family and I think he's the reason Michael never really fully grew up and still had the mind of a child. He thought he was a kid himself and if he had those boys, in his mind, he may have felt like he was just "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" like so many little boys do when they're alone. Then I blame that goofy ass religion the family was a part of. I have never seen a religion so strict as that one that frowns on anything fun and thinks that they're the only ones that will ever make it to Heaven and everyone else is condemned, especially a homosexual which I believe he was. Most people are part of a religion but Jehovah's Witnesses seem to be obsessed with their religion and think about it 24/7. And thirdly, I blame society's hatred of homosexuals thoughout the years. Gay people are the most hated people on the planet, hated by all races, social classes, and age groups. A major star like Michael would be scared as hell to come out. Only in recent years, have stars felt comfortable about coming out and Michael has been a star for a long time. There's no way he could sleep with a grown man without them eventually exposing him later or blackmailing him to keep quiet. A child would be too innocent and wouldn't understand or know how to do that so I think a combination of those things may be why he went after them if he actually did have them.

w[Edited 11/9/11 4:14am]

Wow. What fascinates me is that people are so freaking afraid to admit that they don't know for sure, so they have to make up a story on things instead of leaving it uncertain. And you seem to believe your own judgements 100%. I don't see the difference between your post and some other fan's post, saying "Michael was an angel, he was god, was the sweetest most kind human being on earth".

vainandy said:

Did you see the parts in red or did you get so pissed off reading the rest of my post seeing that I wasn't riding the little choo choo train from Mr. Roger's Neighborhood into The Land Of Make Believe, kissing ass, and releasing doves that you missed the red parts?

I guess I should've made it more clear. The part you said about you believing MJ being a molester to the point where you blame his parents, religion and the whole society based on that, was to me, believing your own judgments and observations 100%. But when I said "people are afraid to admit they don't know for sure" part, I was talking about you jumping to conclusions about his marriage and sex life, not the molestation case. Especially when Michael said himself that he's not gay, you'd much rather believe your own analysis and observations and I can't say you shouldn't do that but at least be aware that those are your opinions.

And about that first red part, I really don't care what you think of Latoya and the fact that you think she regrets about whatever all that stuff. I was laughing at your generalizations about grown men having to have orgasm in certain way. You just reminded me of Sunny Hostin, so-called legal expert on FOX, who also firmly believed that Michael molested children and one of her reasons was that "Boys never lie about being touched inappropriately, and that's statical fact. And that's why I believe the accusers" which was of course, another generalization.

lol And about your joke...if you actually read my reply, you'd know that I personally don't find MJ fans who think Michael was the most innocent god-like angel on earth to be very logical either, even though I'm a huge Michael fan myself. I'm not pissed off about anyone saying anything about Michael at the moment, I just want them to admit that those assumptions are all personal opinions, not facts.

angel345 said:

TonyVanDam said:

We finally agree on something in thread. LaToya is an attention whore. Just look at her well-paid breasts!

She has envied MJ's fame for years. If you look at a YouTube video of him and Latoya, she admitted openly that she wish to have his fame. This video was recorded around the time of "Thriller". It's a family video at their home.

Many years ago, Janet admitted she wanted to be the first artist to ever take down Michael's world record of 40+ million albums copied sold (for Thriller, which has since been 50+ since his death), and no one has called her out for being envy of Michael no one time through out her career as a celebrity.

But yet, we in general love to only give a proper bitching about Jermaine AND LaToya for being envy of Michael in their own way? Oh give me a break fellow orgers!

TonyVanDam said:

angel345 said:

She has envied MJ's fame for years. If you look at a YouTube video of him and Latoya, she admitted openly that she wish to have his fame. This video was recorded around the time of "Thriller". It's a family video at their home.

Many years ago, Janet admitted she wanted to be the first artist to ever take down Michael's world record of 40+ million albums copied sold (for Thriller, which has since been 50+ since his death), and no one has called her out for being envy of Michael no one time through out her career as a celebrity.

But yet, we in general love to only give a proper bitching about Jermaine AND LaToya for being envy of Michael in their own way? Oh give me a break fellow orgers!

She said it after her Virgin contract, the biggest in the industry up there with MJ`s Sony one. She didn`t have R&B hit albums like Jermaine prior to statements like that. Jermaine was saying he was more talented than him and shit like that in the 80`s, Janet wasn`t arrogant when she said it, she was competitive in a friendly way. She had a chance too, she had the best seller of 1990 at one point and was on fire.

alphastreet said:

TonyVanDam said:

Many years ago, Janet admitted she wanted to be the first artist to ever take down Michael's world record of 40+ million albums copied sold (for Thriller, which has since been 50+ since his death), and no one has called her out for being envy of Michael no one time through out her career as a celebrity.

But yet, we in general love to only give a proper bitching about Jermaine AND LaToya for being envy of Michael in their own way? Oh give me a break fellow orgers!

She said it after her Virgin contract, the biggest in the industry up there with MJ`s Sony one. She didn`t have R&B hit albums like Jermaine prior to statements like that. Jermaine was saying he was more talented than him and shit like that in the 80`s, Janet wasn`t arrogant when she said it, she was competitive in a friendly way. She had a chance too, she had the best seller of 1990 at one point and was on fire.

I know that.