HotGritz said:

Graycap23 said:

They are socially BROKE.

Ya know? At the end of the day they are all capitalists and want to make a buck.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch. There was a time when socially conscious music was profitable. Perhaps they were just trying to make a buck even then. There is also something to be said for being provocative and pushing buttons. IMO KRS1, M.I.A, Lupe and the whole lot of them probably don't believe half the shit they sing/rap about but then know it will get them attention and attention = audience = $$$$$.

If money wasn't a major factor, they'd all be performing for FREE!

I don't think that applies to Lupe. THIS man was willing to lose everything in saying "Free Palestine!". Do you know how many pro-Zionists were not amused by Lupe saying that? If this was all about money, Lupe would not be trying so hard to get drop by a major label.

TonyVanDam said:

HotGritz said:

Ya know? At the end of the day they are all capitalists and want to make a buck.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch. There was a time when socially conscious music was profitable. Perhaps they were just trying to make a buck even then. There is also something to be said for being provocative and pushing buttons. IMO KRS1, M.I.A, Lupe and the whole lot of them probably don't believe half the shit they sing/rap about but then know it will get them attention and attention = audience = $$$$$.

If money wasn't a major factor, they'd all be performing for FREE!

I don't think that applies to Lupe. THIS man was willing to lose everything in saying "Free Palestine!". Do you know how many pro-Zionists were not amused by Lupe saying that? If this was all about money, Lupe would not be trying so hard to get drop by a major label.

Trust, nobody really cares about artists, yet alone black artists, talking about freeing Palestine. Its a decades old argument and couple that with the fact that so many blacks (in and out of politics and entertainment) are accused of being un-patriotic, such a statement wasn't going to affect Lupe the hip hop artist. Now if he were a caucasian country music singer out of bible belt USA....THEN you could say he was at risk of losing everything...whatever losing everything truly means.

That's why I was never a big fan of politics and music being intertwined together like that. You definitely stand a lot to lose especially if your genre's not hip-hop.

HotGritz said:

TonyVanDam said:

I don't think that applies to Lupe. THIS man was willing to lose everything in saying "Free Palestine!". Do you know how many pro-Zionists were not amused by Lupe saying that? If this was all about money, Lupe would not be trying so hard to get drop by a major label.

Trust, nobody really cares about artists, yet alone black artists, talking about freeing Palestine. Its a decades old argument and couple that with the fact that so many blacks (in and out of politics and entertainment) are accused of being un-patriotic, such a statement wasn't going to affect Lupe the hip hop artist. Now if he were a caucasian country music singer out of bible belt USA....THEN you could say he was at risk of losing everything...whatever losing everything truly means.

Tell me about it. The Dixie Chicks were kicked out of country (the genre) for making a negative statements about President Bush.

Timmy84 said:

That's why I was never a big fan of politics and music being intertwined together like that. You definitely stand a lot to lose especially if your genre's not hip-hop.

But that is exactly what happens naturally whevever an artist from any genres writes a socially-conscious song. Just ask Bruce Springsteen.

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

That's why I was never a big fan of politics and music being intertwined together like that. You definitely stand a lot to lose especially if your genre's not hip-hop.

But that is exactly what happens naturally whevever an artist from any genres writes a socially-conscious song. Just ask Bruce Springsteen.

With Bruce, his songs were misinterpreted. Remember when Ronald Reagan used "Born in the U.S.A." and John Mellencamp got on him for using "Pink Horses". Some artists who do socially conscious or political material risk having their songs used for political advances. I think the artists themselves personally hate it when politicians wanna use their material to promote their false hopes to the country lol just my opinion.

Timmy84 said:

TonyVanDam said:

But that is exactly what happens naturally whevever an artist from any genres writes a socially-conscious song. Just ask Bruce Springsteen.

With Bruce, his songs were misinterpreted. Remember when Ronald Reagan used "Born in the U.S.A." and John Mellencamp got on him for using "Pink Horses". Some artists who do socially conscious or political material risk having their songs used for political advances. I think the artists themselves personally hate it when politicians wanna use their material to promote their false hopes to the country lol just my opinion.

To this very day there are people who don't realize that Born In The USA is an anti-war song.

The US government tried to kick John Lennon out of the country. He fought for years to get a green card. There was also all of that blacklisting of entertainers during the McCarthy era.

[Edited 11/1/11 15:04pm]

HotGritz said:

Timmy84 said:

With Bruce, his songs were misinterpreted. Remember when Ronald Reagan used "Born in the U.S.A." and John Mellencamp got on him for using "Pink Horses". Some artists who do socially conscious or political material risk having their songs used for political advances. I think the artists themselves personally hate it when politicians wanna use their material to promote their false hopes to the country lol just my opinion.

To this very day there are people who don't realize that Born In The USA is an anti-war song.

HotGritz said:

Timmy84 said:

With Bruce, his songs were misinterpreted. Remember when Ronald Reagan used "Born in the U.S.A." and John Mellencamp got on him for using "Pink Horses". Some artists who do socially conscious or political material risk having their songs used for political advances. I think the artists themselves personally hate it when politicians wanna use their material to promote their false hopes to the country lol just my opinion.

To this very day there are people who don't realize that Born In The USA is an anti-war song.

Sad but true.

TonyVanDam said:

HotGritz said:

To this very day there are people who don't realize that Born In The USA is an anti-war song.

Stupid but true.

Fixed. It's not sad. If you don't know that song is against war, I can't help you out.

Ani Di Franco. Ani Di Franco. Ani Di Franco.

I think she's the only artist out there who has never compromised her socially-conscious artistic vision. For what? 20 years now. Some fans say that she's gotten soft-lyrically-but I'm of the opinion that she's evolving. In her last couple of albums she no longer seems to be the angry young folkie with the punk sensibility, ranting against relationships gone bad. She seems to be in a happy place since she became a mother BUT when she writes and performs her social/political songs she's as angry as ever.

She's been performing an unreleased song lately with the lyrics: "If you're not getting happier as you get older then you're fucking up"

TheResistor said:

Ani Di Franco. Ani Di Franco. Ani Di Franco.

I think she's the only artist out there who has never compromised her socially-conscious artistic vision. For what? 20 years now. Some fans say that she's gotten soft-lyrically-but I'm of the opinion that she's evolving. In her last couple of albums she no longer seems to be the angry young folkie with the punk sensibility, ranting against relationships gone bad. She seems to be in a happy place since she became a mother BUT when she writes and performs her social/political songs she's as angry as ever.

She's been performing an unreleased song lately with the lyrics: "If you're not getting happier as you get older then you're fucking up"

Interesting. I wonder why no one has done a song about ageism...

They all died.

Jimmy Cliff put this out a couple of months ago, right around the time of the riots in the UK. I don't know if he recorded it before they broke out (just as happened with the original!) or if he wanted to make a comment on them. Either way, go 'head, Mr Chambers!

HotGritz said:

Timmy84 said:

I do dig how he's anti-political though.

That's the one thing that turns me off about him. People who are anti-political complain about the process rather than trying to change it. Its easy to sit back and point fingers but unless you are actively making a difference either with your vote or with your dollar then you can kick rocks.

Sorry, but I'm still sore over him calling Obama "the biggest terrorist of all".

I dont agree with it... but it does show he does have balls.. and his not scripted or phoney.. This goes back to the point I was making earlier... if your a celeb being an individual usually ends in people bashing you and when you follow the crowd.. you dont have to worry about that. I have ALOT of respect for celebs or regular people who speak their mind regardless if I agree or disagree.

[Edited 11/1/11 15:58pm]

TonyVanDam said:

HotGritz said:

Ya know? At the end of the day they are all capitalists and want to make a buck.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch. There was a time when socially conscious music was profitable. Perhaps they were just trying to make a buck even then. There is also something to be said for being provocative and pushing buttons. IMO KRS1, M.I.A, Lupe and the whole lot of them probably don't believe half the shit they sing/rap about but then know it will get them attention and attention = audience = $$$$$.

If money wasn't a major factor, they'd all be performing for FREE!

I don't think that applies to Lupe. THIS man was willing to lose everything in saying "Free Palestine!". Do you know how many pro-Zionists were not amused by Lupe saying that? If this was all about money, Lupe would not be trying so hard to get drop by a major label.

Stop! your making to much sense! lol

Everything is political.... everything. If you live long enough I'll think you'll discover, you can't sidestep everything because it will make your life uncomfortable.

Civil Rights montra, "If you don't stand up for anything you'll fall for everything."

I'm not surprised when the powers that be try to stem change or an opposing view, the first things they attack and try to suppress are the media, the intelligentsia, and artist. This mess has been going on since the Galileo Affair to more recently the Dixie Chicks. The members of the Dixie Chicks were asked their opinion about a War and many became angry because those ladies didn't say what many wanted to hear. People had everyright to disagree with their opinion, to protest against them a concert venues, to break up a CD. What I did object to is when Clear Channel Inc, Cox Radio, and Cumulus Broad-casting gave marching orders to DJ's and program managers to ban their music from the airways and defame them. The forces that mobilze against the Dixie Chicks weren't a grassroots movement, it was the powers that be which inculded the President W. Bush. That's the difference.

^ Clear Channel and them should file for bankruptcy or something. I'm waiting for it. When that whole thing went down and they banned them for that, that was stupid.

TheResistor said:

Ani Di Franco. Ani Di Franco. Ani Di Franco.

I think she's the only artist out there who has never compromised her socially-conscious artistic vision. For what? 20 years now. Some fans say that she's gotten soft-lyrically-but I'm of the opinion that she's evolving. In her last couple of albums she no longer seems to be the angry young folkie with the punk sensibility, ranting against relationships gone bad. She seems to be in a happy place since she became a mother BUT when she writes and performs her social/political songs she's as angry as ever.

She's been performing an unreleased song lately with the lyrics: "If you're not getting happier as you get older then you're fucking up"

Ani DiFranco = NEVER sold-out, NEVER compromise!

mjscarousal said:

TonyVanDam said:

I don't think that applies to Lupe. THIS man was willing to lose everything in saying "Free Palestine!". Do you know how many pro-Zionists were not amused by Lupe saying that? If this was all about money, Lupe would not be trying so hard to get drop by a major label.

Stop! your making to much sense! lol

Oops!

Ani DiFranco is not a mainstream act. I'm pretty sure you can find plenty of underground acts that make social based music. The "hits" based stations are not going to play it.

Timmy84 said:

^ Clear Channel and them should file for bankruptcy or something. I'm waiting for it. When that whole thing went down and they banned them for that, that was stupid.

Oh, I would agree. From a historical perspetive, the small percentage of people who control our nation learned a thing or two about how artist and art could shape and define a movement and raise questions which could prevent them from doing whatever they wanted to do without reproach. Yes, I',m speaking of Vietnam; history in the US isn't taken very seriously.

To be fair, not all artist nor their art is necessarily sublime either. Many artist have been more than willing to support dictatorships, rogue states, and totalitarian regimes. Just as sometimes the majority don't get it right either. But still movements do take hold, the mighty can be toppled, and some mindsets can be change. There's is hope, much hope.

------------------------------------------

[Edited 11/1/11 18:23pm]

TonyVanDam said:

(This following was inspired by the disappointment RKJCME & JustErin had with me for what I said about M.I.A. in this Madonna-related thread: http://prince.org/msg/8/3...?&pg=5

Rather than going further off-topic in SoulAlive's thread, I'm better off having this thread where I can really say exactly what I need to say. Please bear with me.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2008, KRS-One donated a song to an alcohol beveraging company.

Within the last 10 years, The Black Eyed Peas went from Joints & Jams AND Where Is The Love to transhumanism (Boom Boom Pow).

M.I.A. is now doing a track (for Madonna) with Nicki Minaj.

Seriously..... :disbelef:

What the f*** has happen to "socially conscious" rap artists these days? What the f*** has happen to the meaning of being a true socially conscious recording artist in general, not only musically & lyrically, but socially as well?

Whatever happen to the days when a socially conscious rap artist would not compromise their priniciples simple because they wanted crossover mainstream success that badly?!?

Or is it all my fault that I NEVER gotten the memo that the status of "socially consicous" means nothing anymore? Shame on me that I never knew that being "socially consicous" is only a gimmick for some artists.

So as it stands, M.I.A. has no problem being on the same track with Nicki Minaj artist that is the exact opposite of MIA's own "socially consicous" status. So what's next, Public Enemy featuring Lil'Wayne?!?

Tell me fellow orgers, am I absolutely right for being a little concern? OR is there something that I have overlooked?

I'm sorry, but I still think it's over the top that you're so irate about MIA doing a song with Madonna. People here are giving Curtis Mayfield a pass even though most of his songs are love songs -- and yeah, his political stuff is powerful and great (hell, almost all his stuff is great) but the fact remains that a much higher percentage of MIA's music has been political than Curtis's. It seems like there's a lot of romanticization of older artists going on here, but at the end of the day they also had multiple aspects to their work and weren't political all the time.

I'd also be interested in knowing how many people in this thread are involved in actual real-world activism -- if you are, you'd know how easy it is to burn out, and I think you'd have a much greater appreciation of the fact that socially conscious people have more going on in their lives than just the issues they care about -- they party, have sex, go on vacation, relax and yes, sometimes, they LISTEN TO BRITNEY SPEARS. True story. I've known wonderful activists who do all of these things. Furthermore, as I mentioned before, if you're turned to political mode all the time, you WILL burn out. A wonderful activist named Pattrice Jones has a book that mentions this called Aftershock. Basically, activists often expect too much of themselves and have unrealistic expectations pretty much like yours, and then they burn out, do one thing that's not completely consistent with their activism, feel like they're a failure and often fall out of the activism scene altogether. Although socially conscious musicians may not be activists in the traditional sense, they're prone to similar psychological mechanisms and can hardly be expected to be one thing all the time.

I mean, hell, if we want to sit here putting every single artist under a microscope, Lupe's collaborated with Jay-Z and Jay Sean, and although his collab with Fall Out Boy was political, he was still collaborating with a dude who thinks Kanye West is the Prince of his generation. So, if we're going to get our tits in a tangle over every little thing, we might as rule EVERYBODY out, because nobody is going to be 100% pure perfect political activism all the time. I can understand having reasonable standards for artists, but yours are just ludicrous. I'd be interested to see what your bathroom cabinet looks like -- is there anything from any corporation there? Even if you use Tom's of Maine toothpaste, they're partially owned by Colgate Palmolive. Who are your friends? Are they all paragons of political activism? Do you compost? Take the bus or bike everywhere? Buy anything made of plastic or potentially made in a sweatshop?

I honestly find it impossible that in your life you live up to the standards you hold others to. I know I certainly have Republican friends and friends who aren't socially aware, but I don't think that my hanging out with them somehow makes my activism void. I'm pretty sure going to my Republican friend's wedding last weekend didn't magically erase all the information I added to the database of our local grassroots GLBT group a few days before her wedding. It doesn't suddenly turn my Seventh Generation dishsoap into Dawn dishsoap, or turn the bus I take to work into an SUV containing only me.

Honestly, at the end of the day, what do you think is going to happen if MIA does ONE FREAKING SONG with Madonna? Sure, if it becomes a pattern we should worry, but right now it's just a woman doing a song with two other women who are extremely different from her. When you think about it, it's actually cool that she's willing to work with people who aren't exactly like her. You don't grow by hanging around with people exactly like yourself, and you certainly don't get your views out there by hanging out with the same people. You also don't learn why people have different views or why they don't care, and if you don't know, how can you ever hope to change them? I don't really have a political litmus test for who I hang out with, and as a result I've inadvertently turned a lot of my friends into vegetarians and vegans. (I'm a vegan.) Had I hung out only with other vegans, that never would have happened. So, I say, more power to MIA. If she actually does anything to make me think she no longer cares about the world, I'll be singing a different tune, but right now I think this is a great move for her and can only bring her message to a wider audience.

There is plenty of socially conscious hip-hop out there.

TonyVanDam said:

deebee said:

What about We Are The World 25?

Quincy Jones has lost his dignity a long time ago.

I lost all repsect I had for him when I found out he thought Billie Jean was a weak track

Arbwyth said:

TonyVanDam said:

(This following was inspired by the disappointment RKJCME & JustErin had with me for what I said about M.I.A. in this Madonna-related thread: http://prince.org/msg/8/3...?&pg=5

Rather than going further off-topic in SoulAlive's thread, I'm better off having this thread where I can really say exactly what I need to say. Please bear with me.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2008, KRS-One donated a song to an alcohol beveraging company.

Within the last 10 years, The Black Eyed Peas went from Joints & Jams AND Where Is The Love to transhumanism (Boom Boom Pow).

M.I.A. is now doing a track (for Madonna) with Nicki Minaj.

Seriously..... :disbelef:

What the f*** has happen to "socially conscious" rap artists these days? What the f*** has happen to the meaning of being a true socially conscious recording artist in general, not only musically & lyrically, but socially as well?

Whatever happen to the days when a socially conscious rap artist would not compromise their priniciples simple because they wanted crossover mainstream success that badly?!?

Or is it all my fault that I NEVER gotten the memo that the status of "socially consicous" means nothing anymore? Shame on me that I never knew that being "socially consicous" is only a gimmick for some artists.

So as it stands, M.I.A. has no problem being on the same track with Nicki Minaj artist that is the exact opposite of MIA's own "socially consicous" status. So what's next, Public Enemy featuring Lil'Wayne?!?

Tell me fellow orgers, am I absolutely right for being a little concern? OR is there something that I have overlooked?

I'm sorry, but I still think it's over the top that you're so irate about MIA doing a song with Madonna. People here are giving Curtis Mayfield a pass even though most of his songs are love songs -- and yeah, his political stuff is powerful and great (hell, almost all his stuff is great) but the fact remains that a much higher percentage of MIA's music has been political than Curtis's. It seems like there's a lot of romanticization of older artists going on here, but at the end of the day they also had multiple aspects to their work and weren't political all the time.

I'd also be interested in knowing how many people in this thread are involved in actual real-world activism -- if you are, you'd know how easy it is to burn out, and I think you'd have a much greater appreciation of the fact that socially conscious people have more going on in their lives than just the issues they care about -- they party, have sex, go on vacation, relax and yes, sometimes, they LISTEN TO BRITNEY SPEARS. True story. I've known wonderful activists who do all of these things. Furthermore, as I mentioned before, if you're turned to political mode all the time, you WILL burn out. A wonderful activist named Pattrice Jones has a book that mentions this called Aftershock. Basically, activists often expect too much of themselves and have unrealistic expectations pretty much like yours, and then they burn out, do one thing that's not completely consistent with their activism, feel like they're a failure and often fall out of the activism scene altogether. Although socially conscious musicians may not be activists in the traditional sense, they're prone to similar psychological mechanisms and can hardly be expected to be one thing all the time.

I mean, hell, if we want to sit here putting every single artist under a microscope, Lupe's collaborated with Jay-Z and Jay Sean, and although his collab with Fall Out Boy was political, he was still collaborating with a dude who thinks Kanye West is the Prince of his generation. So, if we're going to get our tits in a tangle over every little thing, we might as rule EVERYBODY out, because nobody is going to be 100% pure perfect political activism all the time. I can understand having reasonable standards for artists, but yours are just ludicrous. I'd be interested to see what your bathroom cabinet looks like -- is there anything from any corporation there? Even if you use Tom's of Maine toothpaste, they're partially owned by Colgate Palmolive. Who are your friends? Are they all paragons of political activism? Do you compost? Take the bus or bike everywhere? Buy anything made of plastic or potentially made in a sweatshop?

I honestly find it impossible that in your life you live up to the standards you hold others to. I know I certainly have Republican friends and friends who aren't socially aware, but I don't think that my hanging out with them somehow makes my activism void. I'm pretty sure going to my Republican friend's wedding last weekend didn't magically erase all the information I added to the database of our local grassroots GLBT group a few days before her wedding. It doesn't suddenly turn my Seventh Generation dishsoap into Dawn dishsoap, or turn the bus I take to work into an SUV containing only me.

Honestly, at the end of the day, what do you think is going to happen if MIA does ONE FREAKING SONG with Madonna? Sure, if it becomes a pattern we should worry, but right now it's just a woman doing a song with two other women who are extremely different from her. When you think about it, it's actually cool that she's willing to work with people who aren't exactly like her. You don't grow by hanging around with people exactly like yourself, and you certainly don't get your views out there by hanging out with the same people. You also don't learn why people have different views or why they don't care, and if you don't know, how can you ever hope to change them? I don't really have a political litmus test for who I hang out with, and as a result I've inadvertently turned a lot of my friends into vegetarians and vegans. (I'm a vegan.) Had I hung out only with other vegans, that never would have happened. So, I say, more power to MIA. If she actually does anything to make me think she no longer cares about the world, I'll be singing a different tune, but right now I think this is a great move for her and can only bring her message to a wider audience.

You miss the memo in reply #6:

I have a far bigger issue with MIA being on THAT same track with Nicki Minaj. Nicki is THE exact opposite of the "social conscious" status of MIA.

-------------------------------------------------------

If this was only about Madonna featuring M.I.A., this thread wouldn't exist at all because helping Madonna is like THE next best thing compare to helping Michael Jackson so to speak.

But because it's also the same track that is featuring Nicki Minaj, I sorry, but that too much compromising even for someone that was suppose to be on a standard of "socially conscious".

What's next, Prince featuring Public Enemy AND Lil'Wayne?!? Oh give me a break!

TonyVanDam said:

What's next, Prince featuring Public Enemy AND Lil'Wayne?!?

No, Prince prefers TC Ellis, Tony Mosley, & Carmen Electra. Gangsta Glam is very socially responsible, and so is the video with the suspender & speedo outfit. "Save The Doo Rag!"

MickyDolenz said:

TonyVanDam said:

What's next, Prince featuring Public Enemy AND Lil'Wayne?!?

No, Prince prefers TC Ellis, Tony Mosley, & Carmen Electra. Gangsta Glam is very socially responsible, and so is the video with the suspender & speedo outfit. "Save The Doo Rag!"

Sometimes I think that when the shit hit the fan 10 years ago, that people were only interested in being entertained.

Maybe the powers that be don't want us talking about the problems that be.