Not to beat a dead horse, but i guess i never realized how right George was, about how bad the silly scandal affected him in America. I was watching an interview where he said outside was a big hit all over the world, Except America where it went nowhere.

I noticed NONE of his singles since Older have charted at all in America, i mean him & Whitney even did a duet! And it went nowhere in the states. But he has had constant top 10 hits in the UK and top 40's worldwide...

I find it silly that such a dumb scandal seemed to cause his downfall, and of course him being outed as well, i mean R. Kelly had serious charges against him in the 00's and kept making lots of hits. All these rappers keep getting arrested and nothing happens to their carear.

It's just dumb that something like this, can really lead to the downfall of someones carear, yet if you get arrested for being a possible child molestor, thug, or totting dozens of guns. It goes by like nothing, some people know HM more for this incident then his music

I just find it silly, especially since George was once one of the hottest singers in the business State wise.

My first post and it's on georgey boy:-D

I don't think his career in the states went stale only because of the LA incident. In all honesty professionally he was going downhill there since the early-mid nineties when he decided not to promote and do videos - his chart performances have deterioted steadily since then. It didn't help that he got himself in a laughable (in many people's eyes) situation obviously, but in no way was it the only reason. Anyway, three reasons for his lack of success in USA since 1998:

1. The direction of his material is no longer popular in the States. I obviously am judjing by the charts there, not by personal experience. I think both Flawless and Amazing did great in the dance/club charts, but that's about it.

2. No profile in America. He basically gets mentioned only when he fucks up and in terms of being faded 80s star

3. LA incident

...

He is actually doing great almost anywhere else in the world regardless of his doing his best to completely destroy his reputation as a singer, songwriter and responsible human being.

Perhaps.

I think the bathroom incident was the beginning of a type of self destructive acting out, that would intensify as time went on. Which probably had more to do with George grappling with an inner emotional turmoil, as a result of his having to publicly pretend he was straight for all those years and basically live a lie in order to sustain his career.

But that was only part of it.

Even right before the bathroom incident, Older, had not done well at all in the States.

Even though it was probably one of his best albums, his image and sound had changed dramatically and he no longer had a major label buget supporting him.

After which, his musical output (and image) tended to be uneven and disjointed. Sometimes only relasing singles.

The controversy in the US following the release of Shoot The Dog, certainly didnt help either.

But George's success in the States was probably most affected by one thing, post bathroom incident.

1) Lack of strong Top Ten/Twenty worthy singles for the US pop market.

sexyfunkystrange said:

Perhaps.

I think the bathroom incident was the beginning of a type of self destructive acting out, that would intensify as time went on. Which probably had more to do with George grappling with an inner emotional turmoil, as a result of his having to publicly pretend he was straight for all those years and basically live a lie in order to sustain his career.

But that was only part of it.

Even right before the bathroom incident, Older, had not done well at all in the States.

Even though it was probably one of his best albums, his image and sound had changed dramatically and he no longer had a major label buget supporting him.

After which, his musical output (and image) tended to be uneven and disjointed. Sometimes only relasing singles.

The controversy in the US following the release of Shoot The Dog, certainly didnt help either.

But George's success in the States was probably most affected by one thing, post bathroom incident.

1) Lack of strong Top Ten/Twenty worthy singles for the US pop market.

How right you are! Some of us have forgotten that George Michael had a strong female fan base in the white AND afro-american fans of the USA which doesn't happen often from a British artist. There were many who would say: " that wihite boy can Sing" He was a true sex symbal to many and to hear of him wanting D... instead of P..... played a SIGNIFICANT role in his demise in the states. I also agree that his change in musical direction/videos also played a significant role as well. IMO his comming out wasn't seen as respectfull to the general pudlic in reference to the mens room incident and to be honest it was quite shocking to many. Now all I can say is "what it is, is what it is".

Gunsnhalen said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but i guess i never realized how right George was, about how bad the silly scandal affected him in America. I was watching an interview where he said outside was a big hit all over the world, Except America where it went nowhere.

I noticed NONE of his singles since Older have charted at all in America, i mean him & Whitney even did a duet! And it went nowhere in the states. But he has had constant top 10 hits in the UK and top 40's worldwide...

I find it silly that such a dumb scandal seemed to cause his downfall, and of course him being outed as well, i mean R. Kelly had serious charges against him in the 00's and kept making lots of hits. All these rappers keep getting arrested and nothing happens to their carear.

It's just dumb that something like this, can really lead to the downfall of someones carear, yet if you get arrested for being a possible child molestor, thug, or totting dozens of guns. It goes by like nothing, some people know HM more for this incident then his music

I just find it silly, especially since George was once one of the hottest singers in the business State wise.

Yeah, i agree with you.

I also think that he never ever will be as succesful as he was in the usa in the early 90's and 80's.

It's hard to have success if you release stuff so rarely. I liked George Michael and I really could care less about his personal life, but I'm not patient! I got tired of waiting and waiting for him to release new stuff so I lost interest. He didn't keep up the momentum so I'm sure lots of people feel the same way.

What hurt his success in the U.S. more than that "incident" was his lack of releasing any more studio albums. His Older album barely went gold here because he waited six years to put it out.

Timmy84 said:

What hurt his success in the U.S. more than that "incident" was his lack of releasing any more studio albums. His Older album barely went gold here because he waited six years to put it out.

Yup, also true. But I heard he will release a new album soon(I guess early 2012)

xLiberiangirl said:

Timmy84 said:

What hurt his success in the U.S. more than that "incident" was his lack of releasing any more studio albums. His Older album barely went gold here because he waited six years to put it out.

Yup, also true. But I heard he will release a new album soon(I guess early 2012)

He currently has a house track that is doing pretty well on the club scene in the UK and Europe called Every Other Lover in the World. I guess this will be on his new album in a more pop version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkrkcn4lEBs

xLiberiangirl said:

Timmy84 said:

What hurt his success in the U.S. more than that "incident" was his lack of releasing any more studio albums. His Older album barely went gold here because he waited six years to put it out.

Yup, also true. But I heard he will release a new album soon(I guess early 2012)

Oh that gay artists collective thing? Me hopes he dead that project and return to the funk of his heyday. Is that too much to ask for, George?

Timmy84 said:

xLiberiangirl said:

Yup, also true. But I heard he will release a new album soon(I guess early 2012)

Oh that gay artists collective thing? Me hopes he dead that project and return to the funk of his heyday. Is that too much to ask for, George?

Yes, it's supposed to be a gay collective doing house music. I'm not too big on that either I like the soul/funk from him too.

Glindathegood said:

Timmy84 said:

Oh that gay artists collective thing? Me hopes he dead that project and return to the funk of his heyday. Is that too much to ask for, George?

Yes, it's supposed to be a gay collective doing house music. I'm not too big on that either I like the soul/funk from him too.

It just seems stereotypical he would do a "house music" album...

George Michael's music career had already long seen its better days by the time that incident happened...but truth be told, I don't feel bad if that was the final nail in its coffin, if only in America. You don't go waving your penis around at on-lookers in a public restroom, trolling for sex like some disturbed sicko. It took me a long time to get past thinking of him as a degerate pervert long enough to enjoy listening to "Father Figure" and "Careless Whisper" again. And I can only do that by treating that earlier image of him as a detachment from what I know about him today. I have no desire to listen to any of his post bathroom stuff.

He did it to himself.

And not all people in the LGBTQueer Community had his back -

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me-- and there was no one left to speak out for me." is just one of many variations of a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.

LGBTQueer Community in America is often blazing the trail for club, dance and pop music trends in clothing and style, as well as music. It is possible that if some of his community support was pulled based on this incident, George would see his profile diminish significantly at an integral juncture recquisite for broader success and pop music domination. Along with the several other ways listed here in which his profile was possibly diminished, he seemed to step away from North America; intuiting that he would be rejected he may have rejected us first. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but this Bathroom "Incident" happened in a context.

And frankly, I think it was more the fact that George fucked up repeatedly with his public behavior following his arrest for solicitation in a public bathroom. There was a time there after he came out when he went through a period similar to Rosie O'Donnell after she came out and was no longer the Queen of Nice. If you are not the Queen of Nice, what are you? The Queen of the Opposite-of-Nice is what she became. Maybe George was no longer a King in the pop world, but became the Opposite-of-a-King. If George had "come out" with a three page spread in Time magazine he may have experienced the same drop in sales. Who knows? I can't believe I'm getting worked up about George. Timmy, stop me somehow.

I don't think the comparison to Rosie O'Donnell makes sense. George Michael has never been that bitchy or rude about other people even after coming out. He's always come across as quite generous and classy in interviews. So his personality has basically been the same before and after coming out. He didn't make a personality switch like Rosie did.

As far as the incident in the bathroom, I don't see the argument that he changed or was that hypocritical. It's not like he was saying before he was a virgin. He always recorded songs like I Want Your Sex that had sexual undertones.

I don't see why the bathroom incident should be that big a deal. It was about consensual activity involving adults. It's not like he was with a minor or did some kind of non consensual rape or sexual assault which I think a lot of people would have an issue with.

Now there's a small amount of very radical gay activists who want to out everyone and doesn't want people to have the choice to come out when and how they want to. And even when someone does come out, they scream and yell why didn't you do it earlier. Sort of like Gay Nazis. But I don't think those people are such a large group that it would have that big an effect on sales. If George had come out in a huge spread in a magazine, that would alienate people as well. People would say that he was using his sexuality as a publicity gimmick.

chamber said:

George Michael's music career had already long seen its better days by the time that incident happened...but truth be told, I don't feel bad if that was the final nail in its coffin, if only in America. You don't go waving your penis around at on-lookers in a public restroom, trolling for sex like some disturbed sicko. It took me a long time to get past thinking of him as a degerate pervert long enough to enjoy listening to "Father Figure" and "Careless Whisper" again. And I can only do that by treating that earlier image of him as a detachment from what I know about him today. I have no desire to listen to any of his post bathroom stuff.

He did it to himself.

Frankly the shocking and incendiary numbers regarding the rape of women and sexual abuse of children in this country should disturb us all far more significantly than some of this shit.

Timmy84 said:

xLiberiangirl said:

Yup, also true. But I heard he will release a new album soon(I guess early 2012)

Oh that gay artists collective thing? Me hopes he dead that project and return to the funk of his heyday. Is that too much to ask for, George?

Lord , that's what i said. Idk why George is wanting to make club hits... i man come on he is up there in age

It seems he is trying to be accepted largely by the gay community....... which seems silly. Since he once said orientation shouldnt matter in the music

Glindathegood said:

I don't think the comparison to Rosie O'Donnell makes sense. George Michael has never been that bitchy or rude about other people even after coming out. He's always come across as quite generous and classy in interviews. So his personality has basically been the same before and after coming out. He didn't make a personality switch like Rosie did.

As far as the incident in the bathroom, I don't see the argument that he changed or was that hypocritical. It's not like he was saying before he was a virgin. He always recorded songs like I Want Your Sex that had sexual undertones.

I don't see why the bathroom incident should be that big a deal. It was about consensual activity involving adults. It's not like he was with a minor or did some kind of non consensual rape or sexual assault which I think a lot of people would have an issue with.

Now there's a small amount of very radical gay activists who want to out everyone and doesn't want people to have the choice to come out when and how they want to. And even when someone does come out, they scream and yell why didn't you do it earlier. Sort of like Gay Nazis. But I don't think those people are such a large group that it would have that big an effect on sales. If George had come out in a huge spread in a magazine, that would alienate people as well. People would say that he was using his sexuality as a publicity gimmick.

This.

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

Oh that gay artists collective thing? Me hopes he dead that project and return to the funk of his heyday. Is that too much to ask for, George?

Lord , that's what i said. Idk why George is wanting to make club hits... i man come on he is up there in age

It seems he is trying to be accepted largely by the gay community....... which seems silly. Since he once said orientation shouldnt matter in the music

I feel really bad for George. It seems all his career he's either been trying to please people or try to be serious and both times he got egg on his face.

hmmm, true his musical style had been changing constantly. But Older besides only going gold did have 2 top ten singles.

In regards to him being a ''pervert'', what he did was stupid. But it seems George had a ton going on in that era, his partners death, mothers death, issues with his label, sickness, issues with his back. And he started acting out, and even in the 00's lord.....

I just hope he is truly better now

Gunsnhalen said:

hmmm, true his musical style had been changing constantly. But Older besides only going gold did have 2 top ten singles.

In regards to him being a ''pervert'', what he did was stupid. But it seems George had a ton going on in that era, his partners death, mothers death, issues with his label, sickness, issues with his back. And he started acting out, and even in the 00's lord.....

I just hope he is truly better now

It's obvious dude was crying out for help. He told reporters he suffered bouts of depression starting around the time Faith was released and said it intensified after his boyfriend Anselmo's death.

I also think what hurt George's career in the U.S. was not only the lag in releases but the promotion was REAL dismal. He had two top ten hits from Older as stated but why didn't he or DreamWorks work harder to promote the album here? This was before the bathroom "episode", mind you...

Timmy84 said:

I also think what hurt George's career in the U.S. was not only the lag in releases but the promotion was REAL dismal. He had two top ten hits from Older as stated but why didn't he or DreamWorks work harder to promote the album here? This was before the bathroom "episode", mind you...

Hmmm, true. That is another thing, George seems to just not care about US sales as well. After Faith he mentioned he got tired of promoting in America.

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

I also think what hurt George's career in the U.S. was not only the lag in releases but the promotion was REAL dismal. He had two top ten hits from Older as stated but why didn't he or DreamWorks work harder to promote the album here? This was before the bathroom "episode", mind you...

Hmmm, true. That is another thing, George seems to just not care about US sales as well. After Faith he mentioned he got tired of promoting in America.

Well that says a lot.

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

I also think what hurt George's career in the U.S. was not only the lag in releases but the promotion was REAL dismal. He had two top ten hits from Older as stated but why didn't he or DreamWorks work harder to promote the album here? This was before the bathroom "episode", mind you...

Hmmm, true. That is another thing, George seems to just not care about US sales as well. After Faith he mentioned he got tired of promoting in America.

''Faith'' did sell very good in the usa, and the singles were all hits. After that I don't know if George Michael did have good chart success in America.

xLiberiangirl said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Hmmm, true. That is another thing, George seems to just not care about US sales as well. After Faith he mentioned he got tired of promoting in America.

''Faith'' did sell very good in the usa, and the singles were all hits. After that I don't know if George Michael did have good chart success in America.

Faith = 11 million in the U.S. alone

Listen Without Prejudice, Vol. 1 = 2 million in the U.S.

Older = I think 1 million (platinum)

Patience = gold (and I think part of that was from his Oprah appearance but who knows?)

chamber said:

George Michael's music career had already long seen its better days by the time that incident happened...but truth be told, I don't feel bad if that was the final nail in its coffin, if only in America. You don't go waving your penis around at on-lookers in a public restroom, trolling for sex like some disturbed sicko. It took me a long time to get past thinking of him as a degerate pervert long enough to enjoy listening to "Father Figure" and "Careless Whisper" again. And I can only do that by treating that earlier image of him as a detachment from what I know about him today. I have no desire to listen to any of his post bathroom stuff.

He did it to himself.

i hate to say it, but i agree. one of the best voices in last quarter century, but I must admit this changed things for me too. i remember getting Jesus to a Child as a single as i was intrigued by the title. Beautiful track. and on the back was the instrumental to Older, which i still haven't heard with vocals, as I'd lost interest, but by the time I got around to looking for the album in the used CDs, the incident happened and i was like dag. i have no gaydar, so ppl were like, u didn't know... hearing bits of Fastlove makes me know I've missed a lot, but just ambivalent about digging through to see what

Timmy84 said:

xLiberiangirl said:

''Faith'' did sell very good in the usa, and the singles were all hits. After that I don't know if George Michael did have good chart success in America.

Faith = 11 million in the U.S. alone

Listen Without Prejudice, Vol. 1 = 2 million in the U.S.

Older = I think 1 million (platinum)

Patience = gold (and I think part of that was from his Oprah appearance but who knows?)

Thanks. wow, what a difference between Listen Without Prejudice and Faith.

Timmy84 said:

xLiberiangirl said:

''Faith'' did sell very good in the usa, and the singles were all hits. After that I don't know if George Michael did have good chart success in America.

Faith = 11 million in the U.S. alone

Listen Without Prejudice, Vol. 1 = 2 million in the U.S.

Older = I think 1 million (platinum)

Patience = gold (and I think part of that was from his Oprah appearance but who knows?)

Faith broke a lot of records, and every single was a hit, hell even Hard Day got some dance & R&B play.

LWP... my favorite recrd of his

I find it odd Praying For Time went to umber 1... that is just not usually the type of song that would go to number 1. A Dark, political, accoustic ballad.

Mothers Pride was a minor it, because of the war happening and it being played a lot for mothers that had sons at war.

I think LWP was such a total 360 from Faith, much like Around The World in a day was to Purple Rain was or Tunnel Of Love from born In The U.S.A... Or Angel Dust from Faith No More after The Real Thing

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

Faith = 11 million in the U.S. alone

Listen Without Prejudice, Vol. 1 = 2 million in the U.S.

Older = I think 1 million (platinum)

Patience = gold (and I think part of that was from his Oprah appearance but who knows?)

Faith broke a lot of records, and every single was a hit, hell even Hard Day got some dance & R&B play.

LWP... my favorite recrd of his

I find it odd Praying For Time went to umber 1... that is just not usually the type of song that would go to number 1. A Dark, political, accoustic ballad.

Mothers Pride was a minor it, because of the war happening and it being played a lot for mothers that had sons at war.

I think LWP was such a total 360 from Faith, much like Around The World in a day was to Purple Rain was or Tunnel Of Love from born In The U.S.A... Or Angel Dust from Faith No More after The Real Thing

When I was little I was under the assumption that "Freedom '90" was the #1 track of the country because I would see the video a lot on MTV.